okay, i got this response in the past and i'm getting the same response now. basically, either people say that we don't need more power (which is fine), or people ignore the idea entirely (barring one poster so far)
now, the aforementioned response in and of itself isn't bad. in fact, i agree that we don't need more power right now in favour of social.
however, i want to know if you guys think the technique would actually work at all, and if not, give reasons for it. i ask this because right now i don't know whether to try to convince the people who have responded, or try to invite discussion about whether the theory would actually work as a method for power increases.
in my opinion, as long as people would be willing to try this theory at some point, i will be satisfied. unfortunately, unless people respond regarding it's actual viability as a technique, i will keep trying to explain how it works and why it's desirable to test.
if you think there are better things to worry about right now other than power, then fair enough - we can easily try it out another time. the thing is though, i have no idea what anyone thinks about it other than "it doesn't help social" or "we already have time-stop". yes, these points are entirely valid, however, this doesn't detract from the fact that this might be useful at some point; what do people actually think about the technique in and of itself??
do you think it would work?
what do you like about it?
what do you dislike about it?
would you be willing to bench it and use it later if there is ever a need for power?
edit:
also, the ability to use multiple high grade attacks (nuke train) safely, is the whole point behind the extended magic idea.
edit2:
holy shit, i look a few pages back and people are going crazy over science controversy; sorry if i posted at an inopportune time. i swear i didn't know about all the arguments!
Rebellion Mami's STRONGEST Mami. And it's basically because she's living in a dream world where she's got all these friends and Mami kinda literally gets powerups by harnessing THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP. And happiness.
[Q] Witch Kiss Mami into being happier.
-[Q] Say: "Y-you better be grateful, b-baka!" while you do it.
okay, i got this response in the past and i'm getting the same response now. basically, either people say that we don't need more power (which is fine), or people ignore the idea entirely (barring one poster so far)
Well, if you just mean "do you all think the MCs are capable of scaling up their attacks to crazy degrees with reckless abandon because they functionally have no mana concerns now" then I don't think anyone disagrees.
Hell, my assumption was that Wally would show up, time would stop, and then it would be pelted with a frankly irresponsible amount of ordinance from super duo tiro finales, rockets, thrown objects, and even a few incubator corpses.
Would it work? Sure, of course it would; I'm not sure how it couldn't. There's the advantage of it not requiring Sabrina's attention in the middle of battle, too: even strapping a single Clear Seed to a gem should give an individual meguca 100 years worth of Grief to use at once, before having to go to Sabrina for a recharge. This advantage is also a big disadvantage, as it allows any meguca with access to Clear Seeds to unleash an unprecedented amount of magic in a very short amount of time, which means a rogue actor could do an enormous amount of damage without having to worry about near-term effects. Imagine how the Sendai War would have gone if everyone had a Clear Seed or two strapped to their Gems? How much damage would the terrakinetic and hydrokinetic have done, if they were to start unloading attacks hundreds or thousands of times more powerful at each other?
Then there's the fact that every Clear Seed that exists is, at its core, the soul of a little girl whom we are condemning to be tortured by having toxic, corrosive Grief endlessly poured into her, until we rip it all out and start the process anew. That's probably not as bad as what the Incubators are doing to those poor girls' souls, but there's a reason most of the thread agrees that we need to work out De-witching ASAP, and not get used to building an infrastructure out of the suffering of children.
Well, if you just mean "do you all think the MCs are capable of scaling up their attacks to crazy degrees with reckless abandon because they functionally have no mana concerns now" then I don't think anyone disagrees.
Hell, my assumption was that Wally would show up, time would stop, and then it would be pelted with a frankly irresponsible amount of ordinance from super duo tiro finales, rockets, thrown objects, and even a few incubator corpses.
Good old Walpy-Timestop-Picnic-Bombardment. Like, remember when the idea of literally having a picnic in timestop while shooting Walpurgisnacht was being discussed.
The dumb things we come up with.
Would be a great Smash Move for the game, though. If you can have triple techs: Brina drains Grief, Homu timestops, Mami unfolds a picnic blanket, the three girls have a (brief) picnic, then Mami shoots the hell out of everyone else.
Well, if you just mean "do you all think the MCs are capable of scaling up their attacks to crazy degrees with reckless abandon because they functionally have no mana concerns now" then I don't think anyone disagrees.
Hell, my assumption was that Wally would show up, time would stop, and then it would be pelted with a frankly irresponsible amount of ordinance from super duo tiro finales, rockets, thrown objects, and even a few incubator corpses.
pretty much this, except my setup is designed for use outside of time-stop too, and adds further safety nets to our reckless casting. rather than using 70-80% reserves and then waiting for Sabrina to top you up, MG's are now able to cast 90%+ and then have it auto regen. with sabrina present, she will be able to cleanse you 5x faster than normal.
i know that time-stop makes it pretty redundant, but this would be useful for more than just timestop and is generally safer for the MG's/less stressfull for Sabrina...
Then there's the fact that every Clear Seed that exists is, at its core, the soul of a little girl whom we are condemning to be tortured by having toxic, corrosive Grief endlessly poured into her, until we rip it all out and start the process anew. That's probably not as bad as what the Incubators are doing to those poor girls' souls, but there's a reason most of the thread agrees that we need to work out De-witching ASAP, and not get used to building an infrastructure out of the suffering of children.
The grief seed problem is notable. We can only hope the soulguca coming is able to be reasoned with. Her knowledge of souls could prove to be the breakthrough we needed on the subject.
so considering the idea is workable and easy to test, should we prepare the setup in case we ever need it? something like carrying 4+ empty seeds with us at all times, so that we have access to the setup when we are in a pinch and have no time-stop available? that way, we won't have to build around the suffering of little girls, but still have a major fall back option in case we ever need it. (only used in dire situations where there is no choice)
basically 100x the magic we would normally use, constant 100% cleansing, with no extra cost and can be whipped out in a pinch. in fact, all our major allies (mami, homura, sayaka) should have this setup present on them, so that they are never caught out by a powerful foe. Sabrina + empty seed cleansing is a powerful combo.
basically, a backup strategy of sorts - one that allows nuke+ level spell casting in an instant...
This is actually not true. There's a psychological fallacy, the name eludes me, wherein if you have a tool you start looking for justifications to use it, especially if there was any sort of genuine cost or time-sink into getting it. This is unfortunately a very real problem when it comes to lethal weapons in the real world, and SV has shown this mentality in various other Meguca quest threads.
I would actually oppose any vote to research Nuke-level casting. That's so stupidly overkill and dangerous that I find Sabrina trying to research how to do it literally immortal. If she ever fucks up using it, she would kill countless civilians.
Hell, our new "First Light" laser is pretty much already pushing it for me; it's real value is antimagic field combat and as proof of concept, but as far as firepower, it's pretty much above and beyond anything we'd ever really need.
Then there's the fact that every Clear Seed that exists is, at its core, the soul of a little girl whom we are condemning to be tortured by having toxic, corrosive Grief endlessly poured into her, until we rip it all out and start the process anew. That's probably not as bad as what the Incubators are doing to those poor girls' souls, but there's a reason most of the thread agrees that we need to work out De-witching ASAP, and not get used to building an infrastructure out of the suffering of children.
Your analysis is a very real and horrifying possibility and I absolutely agree we need to get de-witching underway ASAP.
Ugh... I know this is going to sound insensitive and I really don't want it to be. I know damn well the problem is very serious and deserves levity. That said, as far as I know, we don't actually have proof the girl in question is conscious enough outside of it's witch state to feel anything. Looking at it in a different way, since the girl has witched, for all we know, her witch core needs grief, else we're starving it, and thus hurting the girl in another way. We don't know. There's no way to confirm it without moving forward with de-witching. Also I should put this into a bit more perspective As long as witches exist, grief seeds are also going to exist. And grief seeds are always going to have immensely more grief then a partially used clear seed does. In that regard a normal grief seed would be much more associated with girls suffering then what a clear seed would be.
This is actually not true. There's a psychological fallacy, the name eludes me, wherein if you have a tool you start looking for justifications to use it, especially if there was any sort of genuine cost or time-sink into getting it. This is unfortunately a very real problem when it comes to lethal weapons in the real world, and SV has shown this mentality in various other Meguca quest threads.
I would actually oppose any vote to research Nuke-level casting. That's so stupidly overkill and dangerous that I find Sabrina trying to research how to do it literally immortal. If she ever fucks up using it, she would kill countless civilians.
Hell, our new "First Light" laser is pretty much already pushing it for me; it's real value is antimagic field combat and as proof of concept, but as far as firepower, it's pretty much above and beyond anything we'd ever really need.
You're thinking of the sunk cost fallacy, but even that doesn't neccesarily forbid that from being a the proper choice ; assuming that it is is a combination of the fallacy fallacy and an ad hominem argument. I'm not sure that more science for weaponry is needed myself, but this needs addressing.
As far as responsibility goes? Well, yes, but we do have the capability to have safe usage, far more than almost anyone else- we have to get several people to explicitly decide to do it, and not have a greater number of people decide against it. That's actually not terrible as far as security goes. Furthermore, there are situations within the bounds of this quest where weapons far beyond Prima Luce might be neccesary, or at least very useful, like Walpurgisnacht. Furthermore, even nuke level explosives have other uses as well - see the Project Orion (nuclear propulsion) - Wikipedia.
"Mmmnrg," you grumble. "You can't end a picnic without ice cream."
You could get up.
You could.
But the grass is comfy. Mami's a nice, warm presence at your side, curled up and hugging your arm.
You can get up anytime. Really you can.
...
This would be the perfect time for something horrible to happen, like a Witch attack or Feathers or something. You're not sure you'd be able to motivate yourself to do anything about it, except maybe offer whatever-it-is its choice of food.
"I'm too fat to get the ice cream," you announce to the world at large after a few minutes of careful contemplation.
"Mnnnm," Mami agrees, curling up and tightening her hug.
Nagisa's a happily full little ball with her head pillowed on your stomach. You'll probably have to roll her over to Shin later. Hopefully he won't be too upset. Homura and Madoka aren't too far behind, by your judgement - Madoka's just lying down and staring up at the sky with a blissful smile on her face. Homura's leaning against the shelter's support.
Sayaka, somehow, still has the energy to haul herself into a sitting position and gaze adoringly at Kwyuiiji, who's dozing on the grass - he'd finally deigned to be helped out of the wheelchair. Sayaka seems to notice you looking, turning and waving at you.
You grin back.
"I'll get it." You turn to see Hitomi regarding you with an amused look, rising with impeccable poise despite her cast.
Right, because someone actually paced themselves and, ah, ate within their means. You wave lazily at her, grinning amiably. You wish you could make chibi-Brina, but Nagisa's here, and you're not going to let her in on the magic thing, hopefully, until you can make sure Kyuubey stops sniffing around.
Hrrrrh.
A few minutes later, Hitomi plops a little plastic cup of ice cream on your chest, and another one in front of Mami's nose as she goes around serving everyone. She gave you vanilla, which is probably typecasting of some kind you'd complain about but it's ice cream. Also, Mami got the royal milk tea ice cream, which she digs into with gusto and manners no less impeccable for her state of advanced fullness.
"Thanks, 'tomi," you mumble around a mouthful of ice cream. "We should distribute the leftovers. Homura, you can have more of it, you live alone." You give her a sharp look to make sure she understand you.
She needs to eat more, and she deserves to eat healthier than just instant cup noodles.
Madoka waves a hand in the air. "May I have some of the curry? I'm sure papa would love to try it," she says.
"Sure," you agree. "Dunno how we're going to divvy up everything, though."
"Papa packed containers! And plastic bags!" Madoka volunteers.
"Oh, nice," you say. "That solves that, then." Heh. Considering that he must've known he was basically doubling the amount of food at the picnic, he probably anticipated this.
Your phone buzzes, and you groan, working your arm around Nagisa to retrieve the offending device from your pocket.
Ah, six o'clock on the dot and a message from Shin.
Mami tilts her head back, cracking one eye open to peek at you as you tap out a quick confirmation. "Oh," she says. " Time to go?"
"For Nagisa, yes," you agree, reaching up to tweak one of Nagisa's little hair tufts. "Nagisa, wakey wakey~"
"Dun wanna," she says, rolling over and burying her face in your stomach.
Mami giggles as you heave yourself up to a seated position and scoop Nagisa up into your arms. She pulls herself up too, helping herself to your shoulder to lurch to her feet.
You shoot her a quick smile. "Hey girls, I'm gonna go send Nagisa off, ok? Back in a few minutes."
Madoka pops to her feet. "Ah! We can split the leftovers up, are there any dishes you want, Sabrina? Mami? Oh... Nagisa?"
"Caaake," Nagisa says, perking up in your arms. Her odd red and yellow eyes fly open as she gives Madoka and then you a hopeful look.
You shake your head, grinning. "Pack her some pastries and what's left of the cake?" you suggest.
Madoka flashes you a thumbs up and hurries over to the picnic basket to do just that. She hands Mami a plastic bag with a few containers inside a few busy moments later, waving as you shift Nagisa to ride on your hip and head out.
Mami tucks herself against your other side as you stroll towards the park exit. It's a nice evening, cool and pleasant. Probably going to be a cold night, but for now, the sun's just about dipping towards the horizon to paint the sky in fiery oranges and pinks.
It's nearly time to tell Sayaka.
You can't put it off any more, can you?
You find Shin waiting for you by the gate, car engine idling. "Nagisa! Sabrina, Miss Tomoe."
You grin back at him, handing off the half-dozing ball of contented fullness. "We may have overfed her slightly," you say. Nagisa mumbles unintelligibly as her uncle takes her, snuggling into the man's arms.
"So I see," Shin says, sounding amused as he gives Nagisa a once over. "Did you have fun, Nagisa?"
"Mmmhm!" the girl responds, nodding sleepily.
Shin chuckles. "Well, thank you for looking after my niece for today," he says.
"Our pleasure," you assure him.
"It was!" Mami agrees. "Ah, Mr. Momoe-" She offers up the bag of food. "There's some pastries in here."
Shin blinks at her, then the bag. "Oh, I couldn't," he protests.
Mami shakes her head, smiling. "There was a bit of miscommunication, and Madoka brought food too," she says, offering the bag again. "So there is more than enough to go around."
"Hah, sounds like Junko's doing," Shin snorts. "'Miscommunication'." He takes the bag, this time, hefting it lightly. "Thank you very much."
Mami smiles politely, taking a step back to join you again.
"Well, once again, thank you," he says, with a shallow bow to you and Mami. "Say goodbye, Nagisa."
"Dun wanna," Nagisa mumbles, cracking her eyes open to look at you. "Bye, big sis, bye, Miss Tomoe."
You ruffle her hair. "Later, Nagisa!"
"Goodbye," Mami says with a warm smile.
Shin smiles fondly at Nagisa, and gives you and Mami a respectful nod before settling her in the back seat of his car and driving off.
You sigh as you watch them go, before shaking your head and offering your arm to Mami. She takes it with familiar ease, smiling up at you.
She doesn't say anything. And really, she doesn't need to.
You smile back. "C'mon," you murmur. "Let's go back to our friends."
She nods, and the two of you start back up the hill in an easy, comfortable silence.
You debate with yourself about bringing Hitomi in. She deserves to know, too. She had her wrist broken, after all. Do you want to just tell the both of them together like that, though?
"What's wrong, Sabrina?" Mami asks.
You grimace. "I... well, I want to tell Sayaka about... you know, Oriko. Hitomi, too," you say. "I just... I'm not completely sure of myself, I guess. I'm worried I'll mess it up, and I don't even know if I should tell them together or separately."
Mami smiles up at you, seemingly unworried. "I believe in you, Sabrina," she says. "You'll figure it out. But... I think you should tell them together."
You nod, relaxing a little. "I thought so too," you say. "I mean, if nothing else, Hitomi'll hopefully be a calming influence, right?"
Mami nods, giving you a reassuring smile. "You'll figure it out," she says, unwavering confidence in her voice.
... well. What can you do in the face of that? You smile back at her, hugging her close as you walk.
By the time you get back up the hill, you find that everyone's up and about, mostly, finishing the divvying up of food. Even Kyousjiko has a few containers balanced on his lap, violin carefully held out of the way.
Sayaka grins at you, presenting the basket back. "That's yours," she says. "Thanks for inviting me -well, us- today."
"Ah, yes, thank you!" Madoka says, looking up. She shoves two bulging plastic bags into Homura's arms, before picking one up for herself. "Today was fun!"
You wave off the thanks as Hitomi tries to join in. "I had fun too, and it wouldn't be a picnic without my friends," you say.
Mami nods, looking serious. "I- I'm glad you all came today," she says. "Thank you for coming."
Sayaka laughs it off, hanging her bag of food off one of the handles of Kyosahke's wheelchair. "And miss out on your cooking? No way!"
Hitomi smiles. "Indeed, I think we all had fun today," she says. "Right, Kyounske?"
The grey haired boy blinks. "Ah, yes," he says. "It was good to get out of the hospital. Sabrina, thank you for the suggestion of music, it was an excellent learning opportunity."
... Madokami above, but he's serious.
"You're very welcome," you say, exchanging a quizzical look with Mami. She shrugs back at you. "Anyway, uh, Sayaka, Hitomi, I assume you'll be headed over to the hospital to drop Kwyijibo off?"
"We will," Hitomi confirms with a nod, adjusting her cast and moving over to join Sayaka. The bleunette tugs the plastic bag from Hitomi's free hand and hangs it over the other handle of the wheelchair, earning her an exasperated look from Hitomi.
"Right... could you two... uh, could you two drop by our place afterwards?" you suggest.
Hitomi checks the time on her phone. "Ah... my parents aren't expecting me back yet, so I'll be fine. What's happening, Sabrina?"
Sayaka shoots you a thumbs up. "Something cool?"
"Eh... well, it's something you need to know," you say, shrugging.
"Hokay, we'll be there," Sayaka says, grinning.
Madoka smiles happily at everyone. Probably just pleased that we're all getting along. Homura's gaze rests on you, thoughtful and sharp - she's likely guessed already.
"Ah... I guess I'll start heading home," Madoka says, hefting her mostly empty basket.
"Yup, we'll make a move too," Sayaka says. "Later, Sabrina!"
Homura glances at Madoka. "I'm going your way," she murmurs.
"Ah! You should walk with me, then!" Madoka says, giving her a bright smile.
You catch the speculative look Hitomi gives Homura. Then again, it's not like Homura's being particularly subtle.
Heh. Inner shipper...s aside, you don't think Homura is in any kind of mindset to see Madoka as anything but 'someone to be protected'. Trauma does that to a person, after all.
"Oh, a quick word, Homura?" you call as Sayaka and Hitomi head off.
Homura raises her eyebrows at you as you gesture her over, out of earshot of Madoka. She trots over, leaving a curious-looking Madoka behind.
"I'm going to tell Sayaka and Hitomi about Oriko," you murmur, making sure your voice is low enough that Madoka can't hear you.
Homura's expression tightens.
You reach out to her, hesitating a moment before laying your hand on her shoulder. "I know, Homura," you say. "I know."
"I'll keep a watch on Mikuni tonight," Homura snaps, spinning away from you in a swirl of hair. She joins Madoka, face smoothing back out into her usual mask.
You wince.
"That could have gone better," you mutter to yourself. Madoka sends you a slightly worried, sympathetic look before turning her attention to Homura.
Mami bumps her hip against you, and you slide your arm around her in an almost instinctive hug. "I don't know why Homura dislikes Miss Mikuni so much, but..." she shakes her head. "You probably just brought it up at a bad time."
You sigh, shifting the basket to your free hand and squeezing her a little. "Yeah. Well... Shall we head home?"
"I'd like that," Mami agrees, smiling up at you.
"I figure we probably have time before Hitomi and Sayaka get over," you say. "Is there anything you need to do? Homework, or something? I doubt we have the time to go on patrol before they get here."
Mami considers this. "I could do some homework, but apart from that, not much."
"Mmm," you say. "Well, we can do that, then."
[] Write-in
---[X] After that's done, telepathy O&K that we're about to talk to Sayaka. We'll tell them how it ends. Wish us luck.
[X] Find a private setting to talk to Sayaka and Hitomi.
-[X] Follow the vote below if there wasn't any major modifications to our plans, otherwise, do what Mami and Homura suggested.
[X] There's two magical girls Sayaka should meet. Mikuni Oriko is, was a precognitive; she was the one who warned us about Sayaka getting Witch Kissed; and Oriko's girlfriend, Kure Kirika.
-[X] Remember when we said some Magical Girls are misguided? They're like that.
-[X] Oriko's a fatalistic girl who was firm on the 'ends justify the means' mindset, and used her visions to try and achieve good things... and that sometimes meant hurting people.
-[X] We fought them, beat them, put them under house arrest, and have been working on convincing them they can do better, that they can do good and help people without going to the extreme lengths they did. We've made some progress, but, well, there's a reason why we haven't let them out.
-[X] The truth is, Oriko sent Kirika to push Hitomi down the stairs, and was the one who burned down Sayaka's home.
=====
So it's been a busy few days for me, and this post was getting long enough, anyway. Thus, you get a short break and a chance to revise the vote if you want.