Is Walpurgisnacht still floating upside down as a familiar?
Only when there's no guests, as it would be improper.

"Mami, did you hide the tea again?"

"Brina, did you do weird things to the microwave again?"

"I was just improving it."

"I'm just protecting the tea."

"Mami..."

"Sabrina..."


'Domestic Problems at the Tomoe Home'


"If... if we're bothering you..."

"Nonsense."

"You're always welcome here."

"How about some juice until the tea's ready? WALPY! FETCH OUR FRIENDS SOME DRINKS!"

"You should just let me take care of the tea, you know."

"Microwaving tea is not a crime- where's that Familiar when you need her? WALPY!!!"

"She always gets scared when you get like this."

"Excuse me? When I get like what, exactly?"

"Well, when you get ideas in your head and start microwaving things that shouldn't be microwaved..."

"Oh, not this again..."

*Trembles under Homura's skirt*

"Shhh... It's OK Walpy, it'll be over soon..."

"YOU BOUGHT COFFEE???"

"... OK, maybe not."
"Excuse me..."

"I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS."

"COFFEE IS A PERFECTLY NICE-"

"IT'S AN AFFRONT TO TEA EVERYWHERE!"

"IT IS NOT! YOU'RE-"

"EXCUSE ME!"

"..."

"... Oh, Madoka, sorry about that, we'll be-"

"A-hem... "

"Yes, Madoka?"

"I'm very sorry to cut this visit short, but I need to go pick up Tatsuya, since dad is busy today. Also, Homura's having dinner with us tonight, so we'll both take our leave now."

"I don't-"

*Glance*

"-like doing this, but it's true."

"... Oh."



"You're welcome any time!"

"Goodbye!" *Waves*

*Waves back*

*Sigh* "I don't like doing this to Mami. She gets really sad!"


"You did good, Madoka. Come on now, it's safe."

*Pops out of Homura's hair*

*Giggles* "That's... that's still so silly."

"Well..."

*Tugs at Homura's skirt*

"... Hold on a moment."

*Takes out a long piece of string*

"Hand."


*Presents hand*

*Ties string around Walpy's wrist*

"Go ahead."


*Jumps and turns upside down, floating in the air*

"Now let's go pick Tatsuya."

*Walks and drags Walpy around like a ballon*


"And dinner!"

"... A-and dinner."

"Hue-hue-hue-"

"Shhh!"
 
And that meguca's name? Albert Einstein Sabrina Vee.
*Interdimensional Brina Congregation*

Paperclipbrina: "... and that's how Kyuubey and I solved everything."

"... Damn it girl, I wouldn't trade my Mami for anything, but you got it easy."

"Yeah, did your KB and Mami made peace after the bombs, even?"

"Oh don't remind me of bombing Mami."

"My Mami limpet'd me so hard she had to stop attending school."

"My Mami didn't let go of me for thirty seven hours."

"You're all weird, Sayaka is best waifu."

"I didn't have that much trouble with the bombs."

"..."

"WHAT'S YOUR SECRET!"

"I wished for social powers."

"... Shit, that's OP."
 
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True. Hikari wished to look into people's hearts and bring out the best in them.

That would be sooooo useful here.

In fact, Ugo probably wouldn't mind Sciencing all the ways to do the Social. :V
 
Well, influence on other can be related to familiars - that's what witch kisses are, after all.*

Practically, for science-social helps, well...Using our abilities on others is fraught with trust issues with our allies, potential moral woes of our own mind and practical range issues that might give anyone who we meet brain damage.

Thus, something to apply to the self might be far more useful, though caution must be used to not pull a Kirika on our brain, or not using destructive reading.

Not very useful, the above, but it serves as leading question to what sort of ideas and devices to apply? Maybe contact lenses for reading information on whatever we're looking at at will?

*Speaking of which, @techsy730: One point against them is them not being as smart or good as Sabrina, another being prime MG kill targets, third being potentially evil, fourth not knowing what witch they bring forth - overall, I'd prefer to test familiar science in timestop, because potential von Neumann threat is not something I want to risk escaping.

Against this session in particular, Mami felt uncomfortable when we made barriers, and we know she dislikes Kyoko viewing familiars as useful.

Of course, on the other side of the balance, at the high end could be no need to train, social or oversee meguca with network of relatively low effort.

Given we manage music, for a stupider application I'm sure we could do automatic defences (reflex action being something we're lacking).
 
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True. Hikari wished to look into people's hearts and bring out the best in them.

That would be sooooo useful here.

In fact, Ugo probably wouldn't mind Sciencing all the ways to do the Social. :V
What's that one line from Girl Genius? Something about no one being interested in the Mad Social Sciences?
 
There is a fundamental difference with the Incubator, however.

The incubator does not appears to tell lies, it only speaks the truth. A maximizer wouln't have such compulsion, unless it was part of his value function.
Hardwired limit, I would suspect. Unable to lie or alter the functions that relate to said inability.
 
The Incubators we know could be some sort of splinter group or cult of their "species" who have modified themselves so as to lose all emotion. Random theory, not necessarily the most plausible but I don't think we have anything against it. Again goes to show just how little we know.

What's that one line from Girl Genius? Something about no one being interested in the Mad Social Sciences?
 
The Incubators we know could be some sort of splinter group or cult of their "species" who have modified themselves so as to lose all emotion. Random theory, not necessarily the most plausible but I don't think we have anything against it. Again goes to show just how little we know.

Uh, Kyubey explicitly says his species considers emotional beings to be a mental illness, and were legitimately amazed that an entire planet of emotional beings could exist and have a culture.
 
The Incubators we know could be some sort of splinter group or cult of their "species" who have modified themselves so as to lose all emotion. Random theory, not necessarily the most plausible but I don't think we have anything against it. Again goes to show just how little we know.


Eh. Izaya is more of a mad artist than a scientist. He doesn't even keep notes.
 
Uh, Kyubey explicitly says his species considers emotional beings to be a mental illness, and were legitimately amazed that an entire planet of emotional beings could exist and have a culture.
Funny you should bring that up! That line is literally what I based the theory on. (mind you, I don't actually believe the theory, it's just an idle thought I had) If they were sufficiently altered on a genetic level, they could be considered a separate species from the emotional original."Emotional mental illness" could be the result of some recessive emotional traits from the original species manifesting.

It's definitely a stretch though.
 
Funny you should bring that up! That line is literally what I based the theory on. (mind you, I don't actually believe the theory, it's just an idle thought I had) If they were sufficiently altered on a genetic level, they could be considered a separate species from the emotional original."Emotional mental illness" could be the result of some recessive emotional traits from the original species manifesting.

It's definitely a stretch though.

That still leaves the whole "we had no idea a bunch of emotional lifeforms could work together to get a civilization going" thing. These emotional precursors would need to develop enough to engage in very high-level genetic engineering.
 
What we shoud do is actively try to help [Mami] get stronger, thank you.
That's one of the reasons why my vote included a suggestion for a tandem attack that we could do with Mami where we would make the weapon while she made the ammo. It gives her a vital role in things so that she doesn't feel left out or unimportant. (And if it works out, it could let us make something bigger than Trio Finale that can fire past our 100m range, and fire them faster than Mami can normally make Tiro Finales, which would also be nice to have.) For an individual thing we can do with her, if we can figure out if Mami can make something magnetic, then a railgun or coilgun might be possible for her to make.


Also re:Incubators, they're so advanced that the Heat Death of the universe is the only problem they care about. This means they've solved every other problem.
What I was getting at is that we don't actually know that for a fact. Even if we assume that Kyubey can't tell falsehoods (and I don't think we know that for certain either), he never actually says that he's trying to prevent the heat-death of the universe. Madoka asks why he's doing this, and he starts to talk about entropy... but that could be a deliberately-misleading unrelated statement. The conversation takes place in the same episode where Kyubey uses that same method to mislead Kyouko to deliberately get her killed, after all. And Kyubey lays a lot of bullshit on Madoka in that particular conversation, such as implying that human children are powered by their parents' emotions rather than from food, claiming that he doesn't understand deception (again, in the same episode where he practically gloats to Homura about having tricked Kyouko into killing herself), and trying to justify himself to Madoka by saying that humanity wouldn't want to go to the stars to find that everyone else was already gone even though A) humanity won't take long enough to go to space for entropy to make any difference and B) humanity won't get the chance to go to the stars because if Kyubey has his way, humanity will be extinct within a week. Put bluntly, anything Kyubey implies in that conversation should be considered extremely doubtful.

I think that Kyubey was doing the same thing he'd been doing the whole series: trying to manipulate Madoka into making a contract. In Episodes 1-3 he tries to get her to contract by convincing her that it will be fun and awesome. Mami's death put an end to that by making her aware of the dangers. In Episodes 5-8 he tries to force her into contracting by making her think that it's the only way to save Sayaka. But Sayaka witching out put an end to that, both because there is no longer a Sayaka to save and by making her realize that contracting to save someone is meaningless because she will eventually become a monster and take more lives than she saves. So now he's trying a new tactic, by trying to convince her that contracting and becoming a witch will help "save the universe". Frankly, I think that's just another one of his cons.

I've been awake for far too long to go into detail about why, if the Incubators are really worried about the heat-death of the universe, they should still want to be Dyson sphere-ing stars to store the energy that would normally be wasted by being radiated out into empty space and sucking up stray interstellar hydrogen to stockpile fusion fuel, even if they do have grief and magic to use as an entropy-free power source. Suffice to say, to be so worried about the (far distant) exhausting of resources that they're willing to wipe out entire species for a new energy source, but not willing to try stopping the meaningless waste of that resource or build a reserve of it, would be like someone who's so worried about the fact that the world's supply of fossil fuels will eventually run out that they're trying to make more by feeding live hamsters into a pressure chamber to try and compress them into coal, but not worried enough to stop lighting barrels of oil of fire just for the fun of watching them burn. They're kind of putting all their eggs in one basket. Then again, I've never accused the Incubators of being good at forward thinking, given that they gave the girl whose friends they'd tormented and killed a chance to wish for unlimited power. They're lucky that she didn't wish them extinct or to travel to their homeworld and lay waste to their civilization (which is probably what I would have done in her place). Even as it is, her wish wound up greatly reducing the profitability of the magical girl system for them, so clearly they don't have any way of preventing wishes that work against their interests.
 
The Narrator said:
What I was getting at is that we don't actually know that for a fact. Even if we assume that Kyubey can't tell falsehoods (and I don't think we know that for certain either), he never actually says that he's trying to prevent the heat-death of the universe.

He literally brings up doing it for the sake of the world and how "the energy of the universe is diminishing."

And Kyubey lays a lot of bullshit on Madoka in that particular conversation, such as implying that human children are powered by their parents' emotions rather than from food

No he doesn't, quote him.

and trying to justify himself to Madoka by saying that humanity wouldn't want to go to the stars to find that everyone else was already gone even though A) humanity won't take long enough to go to space for entropy to make any difference and B) humanity won't get the chance to go to the stars because if Kyubey has his way, humanity will be extinct within a week. Put bluntly, anything Kyubey implies in that conversation should be considered extremely doubtful.

Quite the opposite, he says he's hoping mankind will join everyone in the stars one day and uses this as an altruistic appeal to the future of humanity, and he also says in episode ten that he had no idea Gretchen would be so powerful as to destroy the Earth.

I think that Kyubey was doing the same thing he'd been doing the whole series: trying to manipulate Madoka into making a contract. In Episodes 1-3 he tries to get her to contract by convincing her that it will be fun and awesome. Mami's death put an end to that by making her aware of the dangers. In Episodes 5-8 he tries to force her into contracting by making her think that it's the only way to save Sayaka. But Sayaka witching out put an end to that, both because there is no longer a Sayaka to save and by making her realize that contracting to save someone is meaningless because she will eventually become a monster and take more lives than she saves. So now he's trying a new tactic, by trying to convince her that contracting and becoming a witch will help "save the universe". Frankly, I think that's just another one of his cons.

The thing is, all these other examples are true.

I've been awake for far too long to go into detail about why, if the Incubators are really worried about the heat-death of the universe, they should still want to be Dyson sphere-ing stars to store the energy that would normally be wasted by being radiated out into empty space and sucking up stray interstellar hydrogen to stockpile fusion fuel, even if they do have grief and magic to use as an entropy-free power source. Suffice to say, to be so worried about the (far distant) exhausting of resources that they're willing to wipe out entire species for a new energy source, but not willing to try stopping the meaningless waste of that resource or build a reserve of it, would be like someone who's so worried about the fact that the world's supply of fossil fuels will eventually run out that they're trying to make more by feeding live hamsters into a pressure chamber to try and compress them into coal, but not worried enough to stop lighting barrels of oil of fire just for the fun of watching them burn. They're kind of putting all their eggs in one basket. Then again, I've never accused the Incubators of being good at forward thinking, given that they gave the girl whose friends they'd tormented and killed a chance to wish for unlimited power. They're lucky that she didn't wish them extinct or to travel to their homeworld and lay waste to their civilization (which is probably what I would have done in her place). Even as it is, her wish wound up greatly reducing the profitability of the magical girl system for them, so clearly they don't have any way of preventing wishes that work against their interests.

I'm pretty sure "They're not fucking with stars within visible range of populated worlds so as to facilitate the evolution of a maximum amount of emotional life-forms" is a perfectly valid explanation.
 
What I was getting at is that we don't actually know that for a fact. Even if we assume that Kyubey can't tell falsehoods (and I don't think we know that for certain either), he never actually says that he's trying to prevent the heat-death of the universe. Madoka asks why he's doing this, and he starts to talk about entropy... but that could be a deliberately-misleading unrelated statement.
Nothing he says in canon is ever shown to be untrue, and even his misleading statements from early on are later shown to be totally true. From a narrative perspective, we're obviously supposed to take away that the incubator's never truly lied.
I've been awake for far too long to go into detail about why, if the Incubators are really worried about the heat-death of the universe, they should still want to be Dyson sphere-ing stars to store the energy that would normally be wasted by being radiated out into empty space and sucking up stray interstellar hydrogen to stockpile fusion fuel, even if they do have grief and magic to use as an entropy-free power source
No, you're missing the point. Stars run out. Even if you harness every last joule of energy from a star's entire lifespan, it's finite. Grief, however, is not constrained by our laws of entropy. It creates more energy than went in, and that is why it is of interest to the incubators. It causes the entropy of the universe to decrease, which is supposed to be impossible.

As for why Kyubey didn't give a shit about destroying a source of energy, I think it's safe to assume other intelligent civilizations are being harvested as well. He mentions a quota being met in episode 10 in the timeline Madoka dreamt of, and since they're fighting heat death, there would be no possible quota since keeping the universe running forever would require an eternal energy source. Madoka was just worth so much energy that it was more than was estimated could ever be wrung out of earth, so he shrugs and goes along his way.
 
I'm also of the headcanon that Kriemhild Gretchen is radiating an aura of black magic he can harvest from, like some sort of Grief Star that never burns out. That explains all the discrepancies in Kyubey's character and behaviors, honestly.
 
Mhm. As we all know, incubators have no interest in any further energy generation once their quota is met. Just ask feathers.

(Yeah, low cost, but kinda absolute there.)

Also, that "eternal generation" doesn't necessarily work out with "no hiding stars lest humanity notices it and some teenagers find it interesting to wish about or more suspicious than a completely free wish".

Needs to make a lot of assumptions:
- that the timespan is so long and contract energy so high that it'd change that
- that incubators cannot change their form nor how it is perceived despite technological capability to do so
- that incubators ....

...Actually, sidetrack that thought, here's a new one:

Incubators mention running out of usable energy, there.

You can get useful work out of differences in local maxima and minima.

This means that they must not have a way to deal with too much heat near their homeworlds, or at least in the universe, without magical girls to reduce energy in it.
 
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Also, that "eternal generation" doesn't necessarily work out with "no hiding stars lest humanity notices it and some teenagers find it interesting to wish about or more suspicious than a completely free wish."

I kind of doubt A) Kriemheld Gretchen is visible from other populated planets, and B) that Kyubey could do anything about her anyway.
 
I kind of doubt A) Kriemheld Gretchen is visible from other populated planets, and B) that Kyubey could do anything about her anyway.
Actually my assumption was always that they needed the grief seed for a fair bit of power, and that they got gretchen's cus well. They're at bullshit levels of tech. They could probably throw the moon at her and call it a day.
 
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