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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Demosthenes said:
Well, her time powers could maybe do something along the lines of haste and slow (though I'm not sure why you'd want to.)
As for game mechanics, yeah, probably. But it certainly doesn't hurt to try and analyze why that attack is so effective against Wall-Pierogis.
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Against Walpurgis in the game? Homura's Suspend Time and Clock-up + Mami's Tiro Volley results to a dead Walpurgis.
 
Onmur said:
I'll call Grief boosted enchantments 'Grief constructs' because that's what they are, constructs that are made with Grief in one way or another. Splitting hairs is pedantic.

Meaning we can try.

We should, probably, try to make some conceptual anti Grief weapon and, if it works, see if we can get Mami to replicate them.

If we don't want to mention it, that's fine. I contested the affirmation that Mami can't copy whatever theoretical gun we make, which is uncertain.
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Uh...the same Mami who's upper limit of gun-construction is old-fashioned muskets because she has to visualize and conceptually understand every single individual part of the thing she's making and maintain it through concentration for the duration if the construct's existence?

Okay.

Demosthenes said:
She could do it in Meduka Meguca Portable.

NO SRSLY GAIS. VIDYA GAEMS IS CANNON
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Yea, she can do it in Madoka Portable on a New Game+ and her animation for using it has her quoting her final lines of dialog from episode 12 of the anime.
 
AuraTwilight said:
Yea, she can do it in Madoka Portable on a New Game+ and her animation for using it has her quoting her final lines of dialog from episode 12 of the anime.
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Well maybe we can just make a magic super acid or something and corrode her.

Edit: Or better yet, get a teleporter in time stop to teleport her to volcano or the outer atmosphere or something.
 
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AuraTwilight said:
Uh...the same Mami who's upper limit of gun-construction is old-fashioned muskets because she has to visualize and conceptually understand every single individual part of the thing she's making and maintain it through concentration for the duration if the construct's existence?

Okay.
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She also made a fully functional, combat capable clone out of ribbons that was absolutely indistinguishable from the real Mami. The clone looked, moved, behaved and fought just as well as the original. If we're talking about the high end of what Mami is capable of... Girl is capable of pulling some amazing bullshit herself.
 
Muramasa said:
She also made a fully functional, combat capable clone out of ribbons that was absolutely indistinguishable from the real Mami. The clone looked, moved, behaved and fought just as well as the original. If we're talking about the high end of what Mami is capable of... Girl is capable of pulling some amazing bullshit herself.
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Yea, but that takes place inside a dream world where everyone seemed to have effectively infinite MP and were doing all kinds of high-octane bullshit they never even attempted before.

I also wouldn't be surprised if creating clones of herself was actually more intuitive than making other things, since she wished to have a connection to her life and self.
 
AuraTwilight said:
Yea, but that takes place inside a dream world where everyone seemed to have effectively infinite MP and were doing all kinds of high-octane bullshit they never even attempted before.

I also wouldn't be surprised if creating clones of herself was actually more intuitive than making other things, since she wished to have a connection to her life and self.
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Eh. Dream world or not, I see no reason that that in itself would erase or mitigate the accomplishment. The discussion if I'm understanding it right is discussing Mami's actual limitations in regards to her ribbons and enchantment magic rather then what she's capable of performing right now in PMAS. And the high end of it, dream world or not and wish bolstered or not (neither of these factors can be substantiated) is a fully functional, combat capable clone originating from ribbons, which is a very complicated construct.

Also Aura, many of the over the top feats of the girls were justified for other reasons.
 
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Muramasa said:
Eh. Dream world or not, I see no reason that that in itself would erase or mitigate the accomplishment. The discussion if I'm understanding it right is discussing Mami's actual limitations in regards to her ribbons and enchantment magic rather then what she's capable of performing right now in PMAS. And the high end of it, dream world or not and wish bolstered or not (neither of these factors can be substantiated) is a fully functional, combat capable clone originating from ribbons, which is a very complicated construct.

Also Aura, many of the over the top feats of the girls were justified for other reasons.
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My point is that Rebellion is weird and I'd rather not try to extrapolate any certain facts from it without Science. Onmur was acting like we knew certain things for absolute.

And this is all pretty irrelevant to the fact that Grief works entirely differently from Enchantment.
 
AuraTwilight said:
Uh...the same Mami who's upper limit of gun-construction is old-fashioned muskets because she has to visualize and conceptually understand every single individual part of the thing she's making and maintain it through concentration for the duration if the construct's existence?

Okay.



Yea, she can do it in Madoka Portable on a New Game+ and her animation for using it has her quoting her final lines of dialog from episode 12 of the anime.
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The obvious solution is to sit her down with some guns from HomuHomu and TEACH her their workings....
 
Also of note regarding the ribbon clone is that there was no indication that her internal anatomy was replicated. In all likely hood, it was literally skin deep, which I think most people would be able to replicate. Even if she got some details wrong due to distortions in self-image, who is going to notice unless they were looking really closely?

And as AT said, Rebellion is Rebellion. Even Homura had no idea she had something like that, who's had literally dozens of time lines to see what Mami can pull. I wouldnt be surprised if Mami just went "well if thats true i can try the all the stupid bullshit thats too risky in the real world" because literally 95% of the events of Rebellion are a psychic projection within a real-world second Homura's breaking soul gem inside the Incubator's isolation field.
 
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SailorMidgard said:
The obvious solution is to sit her down with some guns from HomuHomu and TEACH her their workings....
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Knowing how something works and grasping the form and function of it's every component simultaneously within your mind are very different things. The latter is incredibly difficult, and would take extensive training to achieve for even a single gun variety.
 
AuraTwilight said:
My point is that Rebellion is weird and I'd rather not try to extrapolate any certain facts from it without Science. Onmur was acting like we knew certain things for absolute.

And this is all pretty irrelevant to the fact that Grief works entirely differently from Enchantment.
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Onmur's argument is valid in a sense, he only needs to point out what is plausible rather then what is proven. As for grief working entirely different from enchantment, I'd answer yes and no. They're both trying to achieve similar results even if both forces are going about it differently. Mami still managed to reverse engineer an enchantment that was partially comprised of grief to complete a similar effect. A grief bolstered enchant would serve more as a proof of concept more than anything else.

thagguy said:
Also of note regarding the ribbon clone is that there were no indication that her internal anatomy was replicated. In all likely hood, it was literally skin deep, which I think most people would be able to replicate. Even if she got some details wrong due to distortions in self-image, who is going to notice unless they were looking really closely?
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I agree the base image of a clone could in time be replicated by most magical girls. I believe that was pointed out in tds. It's more so how Mami's clone was able to function that I was paying attention to. From base actions like speaking coherently, to awareness of the clones surroundings, to manifesting the clones own muskets and maneuvering, fighting and beating a veteran magical girl at a comparable level. That is a very high quality clone comprised of ribbons.

And as AT said, Rebellion is Rebellion. Even Homura had no idea she had something like that, who's had literally dozens of time lines to see what Mami can pull. I wouldnt be surprised if Mami just went "well if thats true i can try the all the stupid bullshit thats too risky in the real world" because literally 95% of the events of Rebellion are a psychic projection within a real-world second Homura's breaking soul gem inside the Incubator's isolation field.
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I'm pretty sure Mami wasn't aware of the projection at that point.
 
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SailorMidgard said:
Timestop?
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While Mami somehow figured out how to make guns out of ribbons, I don't think that's her speciality so much as something she put a lot of effort on, so we shouldn't try to push things that way.

Rather, first we should try and have Mami practice making the hugest, most overpowered cannons she can make while we cleanse her. That might be enough to put down Walpurgisnacht.

If we're not confident on that, we could try enchanting some conceptual anti-Witch weapon (in the form of a gun, why not?), and see if Mami can examine it and copy it. It might or might not work, I don't think it'd be as simple as the anti-pain ring, but it's the kind of stuff we need to push forward if we're taking Walpurgisnacht seriously.

Aside from getting more allies and stuff.

Muramasa said:
Onmur's argument is valid in a sense,
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Well, my 'argument' consisted of 'Redshirt can't affirm Mami can't do something she hasn't tried to'.

Not really an argument. :V
 
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