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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Ugolino said:
Hey, Mami, you should know about something..."
<HALF A DAY OF SAYAKA RUINING EVERYTHING LATER>
"btw we should talk about something else, that I mentioned earlier..."
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FTFY :V

Half a day isn't much if you don't actually have a chance to unwind during that half day.

And I currently plan on talking about Kyoko during shopping/baking. After Mami spends some time on Sayaka training, taking the edge off her loneliness and letting her examine Sayaka with the topic of melee training on her mind, with preparatory excursion activities to reassure her the she's not alone, and with time to cool down before the Metabomb.
 
Redshirt Army said:
FTFY :V

Half a day isn't much if you don't actually have a chance to un one during that half day.

And I currently plan on talking about Kyoko during shopping/baking. After Mami spends some time on Sayaka training, taking the edge off her loneliness and letting her examine Sayaka with the topic of melee training on her mind, with preparatory excursion activities to reassure her the she's not alone, and with time to cool down before the Metabomb.
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Sayaka simply won't ruin everything if we actually talk to her about things. Full stop.

She is predictable in that we have a good basis for how she'll react based on canon and her. We have a perfect position to talk her out of things and to get her to at least be okayish with things given how we actually were following a plan when we recruited her for the meguca saving thing.

That'd be a great plan there if it didn't mean throwing Sayaka and her issues under the bus. And by extension Mami and everyone else who has to deal with the mess if and when QB beats us to the punch and makes a mess of things with Sayaka.

So in a way you're making things worse by Mami by doing that.
 
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Ugolino said:
I'm saying that wanting the energy is basically equivalent to killing people here
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No, you've been insisting that wanting the energy implies killing specific people in the immediate future, which is wrong.

There are plenty of cases where leaving specific people alive and happy produces better results for Kyubey. Case in point: Mami. He could have driven her to witch out at nearly any point if he'd desired, but didn't because her influence was more useful. Inspiring Michiru to contract and form the Pleiades Saints produced far more energy than Mami alone witching out would.

The point is that it's in no way clear that Kyubey would get better results by forcing any of the conflicts you're worried about rather than waiting until some other time. "Kyubey wants X character dead" is not a valid starting assumption and your insistence on such is why your arguments are nonsense.

Ugolino said:
Given the chance, he will always canonically go for the Witch system.
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That's not even slightly relevant to the current discussion.
 
Echo said:
No, you've been insisting that wanting the energy implies killing specific people in the immediate future, which is wrong.

There are plenty of cases where leaving specific people alive and happy produces better results for Kyubey. Case in point: Mami. He could have driven her to witch out at nearly any point if he'd desired, but didn't because her influence was more useful. Inspiring Michiru to contract and form the Pleiades Saints produced far more energy than Mami alone witching out would.

The point is that it's in no way clear that Kyubey would get better results by forcing any of the conflicts you're worried about rather than waiting until some other time. "Kyubey wants X character dead" is not a valid starting assumption and your insistence on such is why your arguments are nonsense.



That's not even slightly relevant to the current discussion.
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He wants all the cast dead sooner or later- and given he's working towards a Madoka contract, that means everyone on the planet goes with them. But it also means us not opposing him, Mami and Homura not being in a place to stop her from contracting- which pretty much means killing them off at this point.

Us being dead either as "get the obstacle out the way" or "Witch feeding him grief" is an inevitable part of QB's ideal goals.

Mami fell under "got more people killed" and he was perfectly happy to collect her grief seed in timelines where that was an option.

In the end, he wants grief energy and that means people being dead.

It kind of is- he wants Witches to happen and that by definition means killing people.

Oriko being alive and useful makes his job of making the situation go south to the point of a Madocontract harder. Even as a source of conflict, if she's alive and well and has her magic, that's another way we can counter anything he does. He doesn't actually WANT us to do well.
 
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Ugolino said:
Sayaka simply won't ruin everything if we actually talk to her about things. Full stop.

She is predictable in that we have a good basis for how she'll react based on canon and her. We have a perfect position to talk her out of things and to get her to at least be okayish with things given how we actually were following a plan when we recruited her for the meguca saving thing.

That'd be a great plan there if it didn't mean throwing Sayaka and her issues under the bus. And by extension Mami and everyone else who has to deal with the mess if and when QB beats us to the punch and makes a mess of things with Sayaka.

So in a way you're making things worse by Mami by doing that.
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*shrug*

I believe Sayaka will keep overnight, and you haven't managed to convince me otherwise.

What I don't believe is that there is a simple and quick solution to calm Sayaka down once the information is shared. I'm expecting several hours to get her to a semi-stable state and at least a week to build our relationship with her back up.

Maybe you have an amazing plan to turn that around... but given your last plan with "a good basis for how she'll react" was the blind date thing, I don't have my hopes up.
 
Redshirt Army said:
*shrug*

I believe Sayaka will keep overnight, and you haven't managed to convince me otherwise.

What I don't believe is that there is a simple and quick solution to calm Sayaka down once the information is shared. I'm expecting several hours to get her to a semi-stable state and at least a week to build our relationship with her back up.

Maybe you have an amazing plan to turn that around... but given your last plan with "a good basis for how she'll react" was the blind date thing, I don't have my hopes up.
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Well you're just wrong then, aren't you?

We're Sayaka's mentor. We have the "in" of the whole magical girls being victims, her agreeing to help us, being able to spin things, having Mami there to help, encouraging Oriko and Kirika to get her to see them as people/explaining WHY they did what they did and selling them as misguided rather than evil.

But hey, not like we know what makes Sayaka tick through some kind of OOC knowledge- metaknowledge if you will. Not like at least one of us actually has a decent idea of how to react to the character as written and a decent idea of how she tends to react in these sorts of situations.

The ONLY credible objection to that was Mami not liking it on moral grounds. Full stop. That's the only real reason we shouldn't do it. The plan itself for its intended purpose hasn't had any credible objections raised against "would it work".

And frankly given that your CURRENT plan is to "hope for the best and ignore all our problems" I don't think you have a leg to stand on for complaining about plans being bad.
 
Ugo, I suggest you take a breath and calm down, while it's true that we don't really do many risky actions, going the other extreme won't help us.
 
Ugolino said:
He wants all the cast dead sooner or later- and given he's working towards a Madoka contract, that means everyone on the planet goes with them. But it also means us not opposing him, Mami and Homura not being in a place to stop her from contracting- which pretty much means killing them off at this point.

Us being dead either as "get the obstacle out the way" or "Witch feeding him grief" is an inevitable part of QB's ideal goals.

Mami fell under "got more people killed" and he was perfectly happy to collect her grief seed in timelines where that was an option.

In the end, he wants grief energy and that means people being dead.

It kind of is- he wants Witches to happen and that by definition means killing people.

Oriko being alive and useful makes his job of making the situation go south to the point of a Madocontract harder. Even as a source of conflict, if she's alive and well and has her magic, that's another way we can counter anything he does. He doesn't actually WANT us to do well.
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Okay. And none of that supports the urgency you're suggesting is present in the immediate situation.

Kyubey doesn't want Sabrina to do well in the long run. He does not inherently care about making things arbitrarily harder for us in the short term so long as he has a means to tear us down when it's most profitable to do so.

Please remember that Kyubey, unlike Sabrina, is capable of maintaining a single train of thought between updates and making plans that he will actually follow through on. :V
 
Ugolino said:
And frankly given that your CURRENT plan is to "hope for the best and ignore all our problems" I don't think you have a leg to stand on for complaining about plans being bad.
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I plan on conveying the same information to the same people as you do within ~24 hours. Unless you mean just the current vote, in which case I made the decision to convey the information at another time for reasons I expanded on at length.
 
Damn, I wish some sort of omake prompt had poped up during the shouting match, so I'd have something for my brain to do while I sleep. :V

Oh, well.

Let's get rid of all this tension.

[Q] Before you proceed, ask Mami to give you a massage-
-[Q] Wait.
--[Q] You've got a better idea.
---[Q] Ask Mami if you can give her a massage.
 
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