"Says the one with an office as Barrier!" Said the doll with twin tails. She was hiding behind the doll in feathered dress.

"So unimaginative." Another doll in a white doctor's coat and frizzed hair sighed.
The Crow-Skull Witch added another strand of grief to the construct before her, softly beating her speckled grey wings in time to the opera music that wafted from the shifting tableau of purple miasma.

It was not a normal barrier.

Parts were solid, settings of castles, hallways, rooms. An eclectic and varied collection of settings that were assembled in fastidious detail, only to suddenly drop away into the writhing ocean of raw, black purple madness. A sketchbook of settings, places and barriers the Witch was emulating, but not satisfied with. At the entrance, a simple wooden sign saying "Under Construction. Please come back later."

Pulling her influence away from the mass, the Witch's latest familiar fell to the floor. The dolls skittered to the sides, hiding behind the thick cabinets and artful tables of an upper class business office.

It was not a doll. Bigger, bulkier, wearing military fatigues over combat armor and equipment, with an automatic rifle strapped to a shoulder, and a short sword strapped to its hip. The face was a blank white , save for a pair of white and black porcelain masks. One laughed, one cried, the eyes a twisting mass of smudged colors and running tears.

The Crow-Skull witch picked it up gently, twisting it from side to side as she inspected her craftsmanship.

"It's Ugly. Your ugly, Fat fat ugly fatty fat fat. You dumb liar secret dummy dumb BUTT!" The smallest doll wailed, safely hidden in the deepest shadows beneath a bookshelf. Her tiny fists attempting to throw a tomato, ignorant at the complications of the angle and the lack of wind up. She hit herself in the face and burst into angry indignant wails that were muffled by the noise of other dolls attempting to clean her face off.

The Witch chuckled lightly, the sensation rippling from her office chair through the ground, across the sea of untapped grief, rumbling the stones of the half formed barriers, and making the entrance to her domain vibrate, "So Cute~"

Setting down her soldier familiar, Crow-Skull produced a thread and needle. Quickly sticking a tiny circuit into the neck, the construct sprang to life with a twist and a bow, as the Witch clapped her hands and leaned back in her chair. Crossing the legs of her dress pants, the suited Witch spoke, "Your name is Monty. You are my first soldier. Your job is to bring me Soul Gems." She smiled, tracing her gloved fingers along the armrest absentmindedly, "or Grief Seeds. Both need to be Unbroken."

The soldier saluted, turned, and marched towards the entrance, a collection of other soldiers coalescing as The Witch of Despair added numbers to his ranks, the beat of unified foot falls echoing in the shadow of the Grief Sea.

Dedeolore glanced at the bookshelf, before looking back out over at the collection of unfinished barriers, "I should probably get that fixed up. We'll be having guests soon."
 
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The biggest problem with this notion is that a witchout only occurs when you're going literally insane with grief, and that's why even the strongest Magical Girls can't retaliate when it happens: Not only does it get you when you're most vulnerable, but the destruction of the Soul Gem interrupts your connection with your physical body.

We could, hypothetically, separate Girl and Witch upon impact, and try to force her soul back into her body while it's trapped in the forming Barrier (without allowing the Witch to eat it, so that we can then reconcile the two halves of the whole ala Rebellion), but this isn't really something we can do to ourselves without some kind of proxy, since witching out inherently incapacitates us (before promptly killing us)
I thought a Witchout occurs when a soulgem is filled with grief to overflowing. With our ability, we have an alternate method to emotional trauma, filling our soulgem directly. I would guess that the strength of the witch is based on how much grief is within the gem when it shatters. This means there is two variables and two constant for the strength of a witch when first created: grief production times the time between when the transformation starts to when it ends, plus the maximum carrying capacity of the soulgem, minus the amount of grief required to create the barrier, or WS=GP*(E-ST)+SGCap-B . Our equation would be much simpler, being WS=G-B where G refers to amount of Grief we have on hand.
 
@Firnagzen, something is wrong with the "Useful Information" tab. When I click on it, I get redirected to this omake instead.
It seems there's a missing '/post' tag after that omake, which causes everything under it to be part of the link, since the forum automatically places missing tags at the end of the post.

There's also an extra, out-of-place, invisible (textless) link to an older omake at the bottom of the post.

And it's the Asunaro omake. Coincidence?

I thought a Witchout occurs when a soulgem is filled with grief to overflowing. With our ability, we have an alternate method to emotional trauma, filling our soulgem directly. I would guess that the strength of the witch is based on how much grief is within the gem when it shatters. This means there is two variables and two constant for the strength of a witch when first created: grief production times the time between when the transformation starts to when it ends, plus the maximum carrying capacity of the soulgem, minus the amount of grief required to create the barrier, or WS=GP*(E-ST)+SGCap-B . Our equation would be much simpler, being WS=G-B where G refers to amount of Grief we have on hand.
Just to make sure, I assure you we're not going to Witch out anybody, nor are we gonna try introducing Grief into anybody, not even into Sabrina herself, much less random people.
 
Even if you are literally skipping through life at maximum happiness, your soul gem slowly filling up with grief will still affect your mental state.
Pretty sure there have been mentions of shoulders loosening just from cleansing.
You could theoretically develop mantras (or anti depressant drugs) to try and brute force past it, but not recommended.
 
Evil Nuts (which are kind of analogous to a hypodermic needle full of concentrated Grief) suggest that it would turn them into a familiar-like entity. I don't remember if the transformation is reversible, either; pretty sure the victims were killed. There is a problem with this kind of experiment being hilariously immoral, too; we're not completely batshit like Airi is.
According to the wiki, defeating someone affected by an Evil Nut returns them to humanity unharmed, but they did have to be neuralized to forget the experience.
 
Wo ist eine Nyanya Nyadel?

Wo ist eine kurze Nyadel?

Auf Widersehen des noch sind da.

Nya, Schwester, genau geschlossen,

geschlossen gerade heute sich.

Nya! zu erste Nahe ist zwar,

Nya! Nya sieht zweitens statt eine Ferne.

Nya! Nya! fahre! Nya! Nya! Nya! springe!

nicht voraus mal entsprechen!

Nya! Nya! fahre! Nya! Nyaa! Nya! springe!

Nya! Nya! fahre! Nya! Nyaa! Nya! springe! Nyaaaaaaa.
Yeah, that's what I heard too
 
This. Grief the substance is intrinsically and irrevocably linked to grief the emotion.
... So why are we limited to extracting it from both Magical Girls and Witches? If Grief is inexorably linked to a person feeling said emotion, and said emotion leaves a "taint" upon areas where said feeling was demonstrated either frequently or of great strength, why is it that we can not extract it from regular people or locations like graveyards and hospitals? Even if those areas aren't able to provide physical energy, the location, being more in tune with Grief, make our powers more effective?
 
... So why are we limited to extracting it from both Magical Girls and Witches? If Grief is inexorably linked to a person feeling said emotion, and said emotion leaves a "taint" upon areas where said feeling was demonstrated either frequently or of great strength, why is it that we can not extract it from regular people or locations like graveyards and hospitals? Even if those areas aren't able to provide physical energy, the location, being more in tune with Grief, make our powers more effective?

We can. In the very first testing update, Madoka and Sayaka both showed up as containing grief on our griefdar. We've never tried ripping the grief out of a normal person's soul, but there's no reason we shouldn't be able to, barring the lack of both ethics and efficiency.

E: Citation.

You yourself are a slowly crackling storm of flickers of other, of magic, a network that outlines your body. Your Soul Gem is a tiny, abyssal spot of Grief that the network feeds into and derives from.

Sabrina

Near you is a blaze of magic that outlines another human figure, and another swirling maelstrom of Grief, of a higher concentration than yours.

Mami

Standing further away are two ephemeral shades of barely-there Grief.

Sayaka and Madoka
 
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... So why are we limited to extracting it from both Magical Girls and Witches? If Grief is inexorably linked to a person feeling said emotion, and said emotion leaves a "taint" upon areas where said feeling was demonstrated either frequently or of great strength, why is it that we can not extract it from regular people or locations like graveyards and hospitals? Even if those areas aren't able to provide physical energy, the location, being more in tune with Grief, make our powers more effective?
There is grief in normal people, but we aren't sure what effect extracting it will have on them. Finding out by experimentation would be immoral and they don't have that much anyway.
 
There is grief in normal people, but we aren't sure what effect extracting it will have on them. Finding out by experimentation would be immoral and they don't have that much anyway.
Also, we extract magical Grief, which is basically Grief from a being of power, be it meguca or Witches.

The Grief we can feel in potentials (don't know about normal people) is not very much.

I wouldn't be too surprised if they died if we tried to extract their Grief with our magic.
 
Also, we extract magical Grief, which is basically Grief from a being of power, be it meguca or Witches.

The Grief we can feel in potentials (don't know about normal people) is not very much.

I wouldn't be too surprised if they died if we tried to extract their Grief with our magic.
Why would it kill them? Isn't grief something that could be considered a toxin? What reason would extracting said grief cause harm to a normal person? As for the concern of extracting said grief not being a good use of resources, tell me, how many Human beings are currently living on Earth, and how large a percentage of them are either MG or potentials? Quantity has a quality all its own, so while individually they may have little, collectively, it might be much larger. Wasn't it said that Grief and Magic are opposites, so how is it possible for there to be Magical Grief?
 
Why would it kill them? Isn't grief something that could be considered a toxin? What reason would extracting said grief cause harm to a normal person? As for the concern of extracting said grief not being a good use of resources, tell me, how many Human beings are currently living on Earth, and how large a percentage of them are either MG or potentials? Quantity has a quality all its own, so while individually they may have little, collectively, it might be much larger. Wasn't it said that Grief and Magic are opposites, so how is it possible for there to be Magical Grief?
As I said, we move Magical Grief, which is a super duper magical source of energy.

What normal people have is normal Grief, which is not that.

Maybe we can manipulate normal Grief, but if we can't...

It'd be like a surgeon operating using a chainsaw.
 
Isn't grief something that could be considered a toxin?
So's alcohol, but if a boozebender pulled alcohol directly out of your bloodstream you'd still probably be left with internal and external bleeding. Without acid we wouldn't be able to digest anything and even oxygen is really corrosive if handled improperly. We don't know why that grief is there or if it serves some kind of metaphysical-biological purpose. The only source of grief that we know is safe to pull from is Soul Gems, and even with those we don't take all of it.
 
As I said, we move Magical Grief, which is a super duper magical source of energy.

What normal people have is normal Grief, which is not that.

Maybe we can manipulate normal Grief, but if we can't...

It'd be like a surgeon operating using a chainsaw.

That's not actually correct, as far as I can tell.

Grief is the opposite of Magic in the sense that the sum of Grief and Magic is always zero. When the Incubator awakens someone's Magic, that increase is matched with a corresponding increase in Grief - aka, using magic gives you super depression. There was no distinction noted between the Grief in Mami and the Grief in Madoka other than quantity - and it's not like Mami doesn't have issues that correspond to that.

In absolute terms, I wouldn't expect a magical girl with a clean soul gem and a relative lack of issues (good luck finding one) to have more grief in absolute terms than a depressed mundane person.
 
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In absolute terms, I wouldn't expect a magical girl with a clean soul gem and a relative lack of issues (good luck finding one) to have more grief in absolute terms than a depressed mundane person.
Yuma, despite her background, seems pretty much okay.

But yeah, I don't recall any indication that muggle Grief is fundamentally different from meguca Grief. Onmur, do you have a citation for this?
 
Yuma, despite her background, seems pretty much okay.

But yeah, I don't recall any indication that muggle Grief is fundamentally different from meguca Grief. Onmur, do you have a citation for this?
I'm just going from the fact that beings with magical Grief possess a hell of a lot more Grief than normal people, is all.
 
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As I said, we move Magical Grief, which is a super duper magical source of energy.

What normal people have is normal Grief, which is not that.

Maybe we can manipulate normal Grief, but if we can't...

It'd be like a surgeon operating using a chainsaw.
Didn't our wish say to "control Grief, ... all of it."? Shouldn't that mean we can harness it, no matter the source?
 
I'm just going from the fact that beings with magical Grief possess a hell of a lot more Grief than normal people, is all.

I'm pretty sure that that's because of the laws of karma balancing hope (i.e. 'Magic') and grief, so beings that generate more magic also generate correspondingly greater amounts of grief.

There's a reason I say PMMM magic is kind of shit.
 
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