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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Omegastar said:
make sure that afterwards we feed Oriko 'k?
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Oh yeah, that. We really should take care of that next. Ask Oriko via telepathy where her warehouse is, gather a sufficient amount of food/supplies from its stores, and bring them over to her house. Later, we can ask Homura to use her pocket dimension for transporting the rest with ease.

It'd also be nice to see how they're doing. Plus, I know they're MG's and all, but I can't imagine having nothing to do all day whilst suffering from a severed arm or badly broken limbs and such (without any real medical treatment) is in any way pleasant. We might want to consider healing Oriko's severed arm at some point in the future--that's got to be excruciating, unless she's constantly using magic to dull the pain, which is a problem for her always-on precognition draining her magic so quickly all the time.
 
Why are you antagonizing Kyuubey about the memory erasing? I mean that's basically the least heinous way to maintain the masquerade.

It's basically Kyuubey antagonism points for no real purpose.
 
inverted_helix said:
Why are you antagonizing Kyuubey about the memory erasing? I mean that's basically the least heinous way to maintain the masquerade.

It's basically Kyuubey antagonism points for no real purpose.
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Because we can.

Because it's a wedge to sink the Mami relationship.

Because mindwiping for fun and profit is creepy, yo- especially when it's to keep Sayaka's parents nice and oblivious to their daughter's planned impending horrifying death.

Because we need an excuse to yell at the Incubator that Mami can't blame us for and this is it. Anything it says in reply is going to be more ammunition because it's something that it can't really justify and we know it. This lets us force through healing over any objections it might have too.

And honestly, working to preserve the masquerade is somewhere below "witching out" on the Sabrina priority list.
 
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I'm really hoping that we get the chance to tease Sayaka about this the next time we see her.

Also, the vote seems a little pointlessly antagonistic. What's the point of even mentioning the mind wipe? It would be kind of understandable if Mami was around to hear us, but she isn't. He's not going to suddenly change his mind, and it's not like we can guilt or shame him. All it does is it make it more obvious that we're working against him.
 
Agent Whiskers said:
I'm really hoping that we get the chance to tease Sayaka about this the next time we see her.

Also, the vote seems a little pointlessly antagonistic. What's the point of even mentioning the mind wipe? It would be kind of understandable if Mami was around to hear us, but she isn't. He's not going to suddenly change his mind, and it's not like we can guilt or shame him. All it does is it make it more obvious that we're working against him.
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We want his reply to quote later, an answer about if he's going to stop mind-wiping them or not (either way he answers that question, we win), and we get answers. If he mentions anything unpleasant to us, we can simply handle that when we mention this conversation to Mami later- which is why we're not doing it in front of her.

It's something we even have a justification for being outraged about, and I'm honestly a bit sick of being polite to Kyubey when both we and it know we don't like the rat- we've certainly never hidden our quiet distaste.
 
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Ugolino said:
Because we can.

Because it's a wedge to sink the Mami relationship.

Because mindwiping for fun and profit is creepy, yo- especially when it's to keep Sayaka's parents nice and oblivious to their daughter's planned impending horrifying death.

Because we need an excuse to yell at the Incubator that Mami can't blame us for and this is it. Anything it says in reply is going to be more ammunition because it's something that it can't really justify and we know it. This lets us force through healing over any objections it might have too.

And honestly, working to preserve the masquerade is somewhere below "witching out" on the Sabrina priority list.
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Mami isn't there.

The other option would have been killing them. Also memory erasure isn't really that creepy, a ridiculous number of series make use of it to maintain the masquerade.

People were just discussing in this thread a whole list of reasons Incubators could have prepared for explaining the necessity of the masquerade.

Why are you putting a priority on disrupting the masquerade then?
 
We might want to consider healing Oriko's severed arm at some point in the future--that's got to be excruciating, unless she's constantly using magic to dull the pain, which is a problem for her always-on precognition draining her magic so quickly all the time.
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Uh...being a Magical Girl, feeling pain is pretty much completely optional. Rather than corruption, the cost is slower reaction times, according to Kyubey.
 
Because the incubators working for it means the default response should be to try and send it crashing down.

Killing them is not an answer Mami'd ever accept as an alternative- and Kyubey'd have to be stupid to say it. Good for us if it does though.

Memory loss is pretty disturbing if you think about it in more depth- and we can try seeing if Mami sees it that way when we put it to her in the worst possible light later. "Kyubey mind-scrubbed Sayaka's parents without even asking first for reasons it won't explain. We kind of don't trust him, but know you're his friend so we thought you should know."
 
Ugolino said:
Memory loss is pretty disturbing if you think about it in more depth- and we can try seeing if Mami sees it that way when we put it to her in the worst possible light later. "Kyubey mind-scrubbed Sayaka's parents without even asking first for reasons it won't explain. We kind of don't trust him, but know you're his friend so we thought you should know."
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Technically we don't know it didn't ask. It could have explained everything to her parents in a way that puts things in the best possible light and social-fu'd them into agreeing to be mindwiped.
 
Ugolino said:
We want his reply to quote later, an answer about if he's going to stop mind-wiping them or not (either way he answers that question, we win), and we get answers.

It's something we even have a justification for being outraged about, and I'm honestly a bit sick of being polite to Kyubey when both we and it know we don't like the rat- we've certainly never hidden our quiet distaste.
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I don't know if his answers are really going to be all that useful. I mean, we already know that Kyubey is an Amoral Sociopath, but not only is he very good at pretending otherwise, Mami trusts him implicitly. Even if we do get the answers that we want out of him, without Mami present, it's going to boil down to a He-said-She-said situation, and I don't know if four days of companionship is going to outmatch over a year of playing adviser/ emotional crutch/team pet.
 
Cannongerbil said:
I don't know if his answers are really going to be all that useful. I mean, we already know that Kyubey is an Amoral Sociopath, but not only is he very good at pretending otherwise, Mami trusts him implicitly. Even if we do get the answers that we want out of him, without Mami present, it's going to boil down to a He-said-She-said situation, and I don't know if four days of companionship is going to outmatch over a year of playing adviser/ emotional crutch/team pet.
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Kyubey can't lie...and we're just building a case against him right now. This is just set-up for a later payoff, either sooner or later. :D

Random832 said:
Technically we don't know it didn't ask. It could have explained everything to her parents in a way that puts things in the best possible light and social-fu'd them into agreeing to be mindwiped.
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Unlikely at best, but we'd doublecheck before using that.
 
inverted_helix said:
Mami isn't there.

The other option would have been killing them. Also memory erasure isn't really that creepy, a ridiculous number of series make use of it to maintain the masquerade.

People were just discussing in this thread a whole list of reasons Incubators could have prepared for explaining the necessity of the masquerade.

Why are you putting a priority on disrupting the masquerade then?
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1) Mami doesn't HAVE to be there. We just need Kyubey to say it. Mami trusts us very much. "Hey Kyubey, is this true?" "Yes because I never lie." +3 Mami points.

2) No, there's way more options. Like... "Yo, you hallucinated on the fucking fumes #mib". Or just letting them know, because seriously they can't really do anything or provide any proof unless they try to make a meguca do magic on TV or something.

3) None of Kyubey's excuses morally justify tampering with people's FUCKING MINDS.

4) Disrupting the Masquarade isn't the priority, it's proving to Mami that Kyubey must not be trusted and has complete apathy to the human condition.

I don't know if his answers are really going to be all that useful. I mean, we already know that Kyubey is an Amoral Sociopath, but not only is he very good at pretending otherwise, Mami trusts him implicitly. Even if we do get the answers that we want out of him, without Mami present, it's going to boil down to a He-said-She-said situation, and I don't know if four days of companionship is going to outmatch over a year of playing adviser/ emotional crutch/team pet.
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"I DUNNO SABRINA THAT SOUNDS PRETTY BULLSHIT" "LOL ASK KYUBEY HE'LL COP TO IT I DOUBLE DARE YA DAWG" "AIGHT I WILL YO KYUBEY SHE FRONTIN OR WHAT" "SHE LEGIT LOL WHAT UP" "OH I SEE I GUESS YOU'RE A DICK I DON'T TRUST YOU ANYMORE KYU-MONEY."

Come on, you guys. Atleast try to think beyond the "yes" or "no."
 
Don't underestimate him. Give him too much ammunition (and just about anything can be ammunition) and he'll drive a wedge between us and Mami.

For starters, what makes you think that Mami doesn't already know, and hasn't already been thoroughly convinced that keeping the Masquerade is the right and proper way of things even at the cost of mindwipes?
 
linkhyrule5 said:
Don't underestimate him. Give him too much ammunition (and just about anything can be ammunition) and he'll drive a wedge between us and Mami.

For starters, what makes you think that Mami doesn't already know, and hasn't already been thoroughly convinced that keeping the Masquerade is the right and proper way of things even at the cost of mindwipes?
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Then we drop it after we bring it up, being the naive student who didn't know better and all. We are in a very good position to do this at the moment. We have an excuse to call him out, a nice isolated scene to get some answers that we can quote him on later if they're useful, and potentially something else to point out to Mami. We need to try to turn this to our favor and avoid repeats.
 
Ugolino said:
Because the incubators working for it means the default response should be to try and send it crashing down.

Killing them is not an answer Mami'd ever accept as an alternative- and Kyubey'd have to be stupid to say it. Good for us if it does though.

Memory loss is pretty disturbing if you think about it in more depth- and we can try seeing if Mami sees it that way when we put it to her in the worst possible light later. "Kyubey mind-scrubbed Sayaka's parents without even asking first for reasons it won't explain. We kind of don't trust him, but know you're his friend so we thought you should know."
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The alternative is not just killing them. As people have explained the lack of a masquerade would likely send the world spiraling into anarchy, apocalypse, and systematic control of young girls in order to use their wishes.

The masquerade is not just a benefit to incubators, it's equally a benefit to humans.

Consider the situation where there is no masquerade. All reasonable parents teach their girls to never contract. Other less moral parents raise their girls to wish for things for the parents like being CEO or king of the Earth, etc.

The masquerade benefits the incubators but I think it actually benefits humans more. Imagine if every abusive parent could instead raise their daughters for the sole purpose of wishing them into power? Imagine if child molesters could force girls into wishing them free of legal consequences.

Memory erasure is the only safe way to preserve the masquerade, otherwise someone will eventually speak about it as you get more and more people involved and it will get out, then it's all downhill from there. Parents knowing is worst of all because you can truthfully say they'd try to influence the wish in some fashion just by knowing.
 
Which will be one more point in the "naive student" column, which is bad in the long run if we want to change how Mami thinks and generally keep influence over her actions.

We can do that indirectly through Homura, but something like respect and reputation should not be sacrificed needlessly.

If we want to take down Kyubey's bond with Mami, we need to do it in a really sure-fire way so he can't defend himself with it. Either bomb, really.
 
No, it really doesn't because they have no idea they're being tricked into becoming grief factories for aliens.

Wishes need to be heart-felt and have a price far beyond anything reasonable. Imagine if that was public knowledge.

Sometimes I wonder about you, helix, I really do :p

Bombs are bad. We need less disastrous set-up incidents for "we don't trust Kyubey, Mami, but we know you're his friend". The memory wipe works great, and so does the shady Yuma contract.

Us being the somewhat naive newbie, if that even happens, is actually useful on the Mami emotional support front- we've already established our competence in other areas and have an excuse for our ignorance. We're not losing respect on the partner front over this.
 
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Yeah, okay, I'm convinced. The potential benefits of confronting Kyubey with the Masquerade far outweights the potential consequences. If all goes according to plan, we get ammunition with which we can use against Kyubey later, while in the worst case scenario, we get to have a long chat with Mami about why we need a masquerade.

Also, Helix, this isn't about the justiiable reasons why keeping a masquerade is necessary. We know the real reason why the Incubators want to keep all this under wraps. This is about hearing the reasons from Kyubey's own mouth, so we can poke holes in it and use it for ammunition later.
 
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And even if he does use that defense for the masquerade, we can still poke it full of holes by focusing on "this isn't about official secrecy, this is about you going through the frontal lobes of two good people for no real reason that I've heard" and seeing what he says to that.
 
Ugolino said:
No, it really doesn't because they have no idea they're being tricked into becoming grief factories for aliens.

Wishes need to be heart-felt and have a price far beyond anything reasonable. Imagine if that was public knowledge.

Sometimes I wonder about you, helix, I really do :p
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You'd have tons of girls raised specifically to harvest their wish which would provide a disruption of all attempts to form a stable society.

There are tons of abusive parents in the world. Just imagine how much more power they'd have that way. I mean you just need a couple daughters and first wish is to make everything you do accepted by society if you care about such things. Or you just directly go for King of the Earth and make it legal for yourself only. Even if you aren't allowed such large wishes just chain daughters and wishes for smaller bits of money and power together.

Making little girls do what you want and feel it from the heart is not really that hard, especially if you raise them that way from the start. Instilling a central goal in a young child that holds up until they're just old enough to contract wouldn't even be hard at all since the age to contract is before when children usually become very rebellious.

There will always be people willing to effectively kill a little girl for large amounts of power and wealth and in such a world without a masquerade those people would be the ones in charge and that would make it more acceptable to society just by saturation and such people being in charge. It won't matter to them that the girl will witch out later, it's not like they can get a second wish out of them. There are plenty of CEOs as it is that are willing to have people die for their profit margins.

Also as a point Kyuubey probably wouldn't mention, consider this, if all the good parents are preventing the children from contracting, who's going to fight all the witches generated from girls from the bad parents? Normal humans can't fight them, but can definitely be killed by them. Then you end up needing magical girls just to control the spiraling witch population.
 
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