Remove ads

Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

Reader mode
Ugolino said:
Yeah, no. Did you even read the quote? Healing doesn't work and the precog flat out told us not to bother. That doesn't mean "Get a better healer to be completely useless more efficiently", it means "fix the problem".

Also, those grief ideas are both fairly unworkable. Maybe, just maybe, poking someone's soul with a glorified stick is a terrible idea especially when it's already deformed and causing her pain.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You're missing the point slightly: Oriko told us not to bother with magical girl standard healing because they've already tried. This is not a problem of the flesh, it is a problem of the soul. Guess what our awesomeness works equally well on, allowing for the fact that we can get mind shanked rather easily? The soul.

Note the words "fix". Oriko cannot predict what we can do, so her medical expertise (or lack of such) is irrelevant in this situation.

Besides, just adding it the list of science things that we'll try will take literal seconds.
 
Last edited:
Firnagzen said:
There's a long pause before Homura responds. "Yes. Mikuni is too dangerous, and Kure isn't much less, she says. And then softly, so softly you nearly miss it even with her speaking directly into your mind, she adds something. "I'm sorry."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
(emphasis added)

Well, at least Homura is sort of aware that she is letting her emotions and fear cloud her judgement. Progress at least...
However, for now, we should respect her judgement, even if we doubt the correctness of its motivation.


So, what do we do with the Bucket Hat and Best Buddy to pass the time until lunch? Figure out a more permanent way to ease the symptoms, maybe?
 
chocolote12 said:
You're missing the point slightly: Oriko told us not to bother with magical girl standard healing because they've already tried. This is not a problem of the flesh, it is a problem of the soul. Guess what our awesomeness works equally well on, allowing for the fact that we can get mind shanked rather easily? The soul.

Note the words "fix". Oriko cannot predict what we can do, so her medical expertise (or lack of such) is irrelevant in this situation.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Playing around with souls isn't an ideal way to fix this- it's an attempt at a lazy reality warping shortcut around the problem and is a)unlikely to do anything, b)generally a bad idea since we have no clue what we're doing and we're messing with a soul.

I'll take that post as you giving up on trying to heal after the precog told us healing wouldn't work.

FlatlineAskari said:
No, the agency aspect is pure, unbacked conjecture.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The agency aspect ties into her purpose- it's one way of trying to deal with the problem. (Oriko wishing to know her purpose, her magic going in on itself, therefore her problems most likely being related to not being able to achieve or know her purpose under her current circumstances.)

techsy730 said:
I am now imagining us trying to make a Staples style "Easy" button out of grief to fix everything. :p

Cue epic facepalm from Homura when it turns out to work. :V
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It'd be funny if there haven't been plenty of serious suggestions to do just that. Firn isn't going to give us even more of an "I win" button, folks.
 
chocolote12 said:
You're missing the point slightly: Oriko told us not to bother with magical girl standard healing because they've already tried. This is not a problem of the flesh, it is a problem of the soul. Guess what our awesomeness works equally well on, allowing for the fact that we can get mind shanked rather easily? The soul.

Note the words "fix". Oriko cannot predict what we can do, so her medical expertise (or lack of such) is irrelevant in this situation.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You know what we haven't successfully fucked with before? A soul. Anyway, I don't expect a grief "fix the problem ring" to work.
FlatlineAskari said:
No, the agency aspect is pure, unbacked conjecture.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Symmetry Diamond. Oriko does not currently have control of her powers. She's gained control of her powers by realizing her wish.

Calling it conjecture is going pretty far, seeing as how it has canon backing.
 
That Homura is sorry about denying our request is pretty big.
If this was still the same old Homura from the start of the quest there's no way she would be saying this. She probably wouldn't even think of it.

It's really great that everyone is slowly overcoming their problems.
Homura is becoming more open and trusting and Mami is doing things without the constant need for our reassurance.
 
Very WIP vote draft.
[]Hey, Mami...
[]Ask her what's wrong. If she's just worried about us...
-[]It's okay. I'll find another way to help her I know why Homura's against it...
-[]It's just...I wish it'd worked, and that we could all trust each other.
-[]Thank Mami for her support. It means a lot to us, and Homura heard us out because of her too.
-[] Tell her what you think's going on. Oriko's wish was to want to know what her life's purpose is. It might be that it's not what she thinks it is, or that she can't do it while she's under house arrest like this. Ask for Mami's advice and if she has any experience with what we're seeing now with a magical girl's magic causing her pain and...turning in on itself.
-[]Ask if everything's okay on her end.

[]Talk to Kirika and Oriko. We'll need to come up with another way to try and fix things. We might need to disconnect Oriko's gem until we can get back...and maybe leave it with Kirika or take it with us. Ask what they think.
[]Ask to talk to Oriko on her own for a moment. Use a grief bubble, and tell her about the other timeline. How she gained control of her magic by realizing the meaning of her wish.​
 
Last edited:
Gadjo said:
It's a theory supported by the manga, since that's where Oriko figured out how to use her powers properly because what she really wants is to save Kirika. It's the most likely solution, and probably far better than a grief "fix it" button.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A "fix it" button is unlikely, I agree.

However, I also strongly doubt that we are limited to story-logic solutions here. There is something wrong with Oriko's soul. Perhaps the agency route will fix it, perhaps not. Certainly, however, we will not be afforded the chance to try it on a time scale in which we can have any confidence. And I don't think the canon support is as strong as you think it is.

Consequently, I would like to understand the damage well enough to make a band-aid, good for a day or two. Anything further would be nice if we could get it, but probably constitute overreach given how little we understand the soul. Playing catch-up on that issue and trying to do better than a kludge is most likely unworkable.
 
Spicier-Angel said:
However, I also strongly doubt that we are limited to story-logic solutions here. There is something wrong with Oriko's soul. Perhaps the agency route will fix it, perhaps not. Certainly, however, we will not be afforded the chance to try it on a time scale in which we can have any confidence. And I don't think the canon support is as strong as you think it is.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm sure there are other solutions, yes, but it's a very strong one that would help her mental health as well. And not strong? We know for a fact that's what gave her control of her powers last time. It's about as strong as it gets.
CapnQwerty said:
It should be pretty easy to test this. Just make a chess set or something out of grief and have Oriko and Kirika play each other. Then Oriko's power would be able to help her do something, even if it is rather minor.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
What? That doesn't even make sense.
 
Gadjo said:
Symmetry Diamond. Oriko does not currently have control of her powers. She's gained control of her powers by realizing her wish.

Calling it conjecture is going pretty far, seeing as how it has canon backing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
But her powers didn't start killing her when she was imprisoned. This is an entirely new, distinct symptom.
In any case, her agency doesn't directly tie into her wish's meaning.


If she realizes her wish, hopefully her control of her powers will permit her to hold off her symptoms, but that doesn't mean that inability to control her powers is directly causing her crippling pain.
 
FlatlineAskari said:
But her powers didn't start killing her when she was imprisoned. This is an entirely new, distinct symptom.
In any case, her agency doesn't directly tie into her wish's meaning.


If she realizes her wish, hopefully her control of her powers will permit her to hold off her symptoms, but that doesn't mean that inability to control her powers is directly causing her crippling pain.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Spicier-Angel said:
Yes. These are almost certainly two distinct phenomena. The relation between them might be strong enough to be useful. Or not.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Point is her powers are overloading and fucking with her. The ability to control them seem useful, not to mention good development for Oriko. The relation is likely at least far stronger than the idea that Rin could fix it, despite us having no reason to believe that, or that we could fix it with a ring.
 
FlatlineAskari said:
But her powers didn't start killing her when she was imprisoned. This is an entirely new, distinct symptom.
In any case, her agency doesn't directly tie into her wish's meaning.


If she realizes her wish, hopefully her control of her powers will permit her to hold off her symptoms, but that doesn't mean that inability to control her powers is directly causing her crippling pain.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
She's imprisoned. She's suffered pain from her powers before, after she was imprisoned. And how doesn't it, by her understanding of her wish? She wants to know what her purpose is, and it definitely isn't not doing anything while cooped up in her own house. The agency theory is at least as valid as her not realizing the meaning of her life referred to Kirika.
 
Gadjo said:
Point is her powers are overloading and fucking with her. The ability to control them seem useful, not to mention good development for Oriko.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We agree on that, at least. Achieving control of her powers definitely ought to help. At this point, I'm primarily interested in buying time or verifying that we have a few days to work on her, because if agency is what it takes, and she gets worse at the same rate she got this bad, we're sunk even if no other solution is necessary.
 
Gadjo said:
Point is her powers are overloading and fucking with her. The ability to control them seem useful, not to mention good development for Oriko. The relation is likely at least far stronger than the idea that Rin could fix it, despite us having no reason to believe that, or that we could fix it with a ring.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I approve of pursuing that, but blanket 'agency' isn't what canon suggests at all.

I don't have a great deal of hope that Rin can contribute much, but I think the costs are low enough to make it a worthwhile angle to work.
Ugolino said:
She's imprisoned. She's suffered pain from her powers before, after she was imprisoned. And how doesn't it, by her understanding of her wish? She wants to know what her purpose is, and it definitely isn't not doing anything while cooped up in her own house. The agency theory is at least as valid as her not realizing the meaning of her life referred to Kirika.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
She explicitly pointed out to us that this is different to anything she's experienced before. If the agency hypothesis were correct, she'd have been either suffering like this or getting worse for days.
Besides, there is no canon suggestion that not fulfilling the purpose of one's wish alone can cause anything like this.
 
Gadjo said:
What? That doesn't even make sense.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't see how. A game setting gives her lots of available futures to craft. She could use her powers to win, lose, arrange the board in a specific way, get a specific reaction out of Kirika, force a tie, etc.

Besides, if nothing else, this gives them something to do while we experiment.
 
CapnQwerty said:
I don't see how. A game setting gives her lots of available futures to craft. She could use her powers to win, lose, arrange the board in a specific way, get a specific reaction out of Kirika, force a tie, etc.

Besides, if nothing else, this gives them something to do while we experiment.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Her powers work. That isn't what we're concerned about here. I don't see this as useful.

FlatlineAskari said:
I approve of pursuing that, but blanket 'agency' isn't what canon suggests at all.

I don't have a great deal of hope that Rin can contribute much, but I think the costs are low enough to make it a worthwhile angle to work.

She explicitly pointed out to us that this is different to anything she's experienced before. If the agency hypothesis were correct, she'd have been either suffering like this or getting worse for days.
Besides, there is no canon suggestion that not fulfilling the purpose of one's wish alone can cause anything like this.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
1. Her powers suddenly imploding isn't inconsistent with that. For all we know, her wish meant her gem started acting up as a way to get it fulfilled.
2. Magic can stop working if megucas reject their wish. This seems like a fairly logical next step for this kind of wish.
 
Last edited:
Okay to break up the thread going full Wheatley...​
​
[x]Hey, Mami...
[x]Ask her what's wrong. If she's just worried about us...
-[]It's okay. I'll find another way to help her I know why Homura's against it...
-[x]It's just...I wish it'd worked, and that we could all trust each other.
-[x]Thank Mami for her support. It means a lot to us, and Homura heard us out because of her too.
-[x] Tell her what you think's going on. Oriko's wish was to want to know what her life's purpose is. It might be that it's not what she thinks it is, or that she can't do it while she's under house arrest like this. Ask for Mami's advice and if she has any experience with what we're seeing now with a magical girl's magic causing her pain and...turning in on itself.
-[x]Ask if everything's okay on her end.

[x]Talk to Kirika and Oriko. We'll need to come up with another way to try and fix things. We might need to disconnect Oriko's gem until we can get back...and maybe leave it with Kirika or take it with us. Ask what they think.
[x]Ask to talk to Oriko on her own for a moment. Use a grief bubble, and tell her about the other timeline. How she gained control of her magic by realizing the meaning of her wish and who mattered to her the most.​
 
Not trying something because it's too easy a solution so Firn won't allow it strikes me as disengeneous, along the lines of assuming we wouldn't find Oriko in perpetual time stop because that would short the quest an antagonist. Sabrina is ostensibly a real character who can and has derailed the narrative already. So will the "fix it" button/ diagnosis work? Maybe, maybe not. But not trying it is dumb.
 
FlatlineAskari said:
No, the agency aspect is pure, unbacked conjecture.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
lolwut

Not only is it a solid theory, it's backed by canonical evidence.

Plus, well...the physical healing is just pointless.

I mean, shit--the problem originates from her Soul Gem. What the fuck is physical healing of her body going to do? Get rid of pain that has no logical, physical, or biological cause/source in the first place?
 
Last edited:
Redshirt Army said:
Not trying something because it's too easy a solution so Firn won't allow it strikes me as disengeneous, along the lines of assuming we wouldn't find Oriko in perpetual time stop because that would short the quest an antagonist. Sabrina is ostensibly a real character who can and has derailed the narrative already. So will the "fix it" button/ diagnosis work? Maybe, maybe not. But not trying it is dumb.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not really. Time stop is something with sensible mechanics and it's a question of probability- theoretically we'd have found her sooner or later if we searched everywhere.

Trying grief bullshit for everything is basically "are our powers bullshit enough to give us an instant literal I win button to this problem without any sort of planning or thought".

Given the thread, we'll probably try to do grief bullshit for a quick easy fix sooner or later but I won't vote for it and I hope we at least make it more thought out than [q]Fix this problem somehow the way that's been suggested so far.
 
Last edited:
Thinking about all the things people are talking about, and contributing my own, I would make classes of things we might do with O right now:
  1. Restoring agency
  2. Personal revelation re: K
  3. Soul diagnostics
  4. Stopgap measures and other assurance that O will live long enough to attempt 1.
  5. Hail Marys (most of the grief-based suggestions so far are this)
  6. Extending the pain-blocking
I find 1, 2 and 3 most valuable. 3 supports any of the others, because if it takes hours to determine whether something we did had an effect, we're screwed unless 1 and/or 2 constitute their own "fix it" options. I recommend a limited expansion of 3 (no more than a half hour development time IC) followed by 2 and 4 in some mixture. If we can do anything about 1 without O leaving the house, try it.

If something works well enough that O seems stable, shift to a short-range plan for a version of 1 that H could find acceptable. I doubt precautions are the right approach there. More likely H needs something tangible about O&K's trustworthiness. Telepathic scans would qualify if we could manage them.

Let me try working this into a vote...
Gadjo said:
And really, it's not gonna work.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I have some expectation that it might provide a temporary reprieve from the pain, if we could do something as extreme as incrementally replacing her body. However, note that I don't recommend putting time into pain-reducing solutions. If we're going to reduce the pain on an extended basis, we can't afford the time to do it except by fixing something that's broken.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top