Since Ono is constantly using her magic (and is probably emotionally unstable on top of that), the only way I could see for Ono to actually be fine grief-wise would be if she actually used the grief seed since we talked to her this afternoon. If that is the case, then the ideal solution would be to approach her in timestop and pull the grief out of the grief seed without Ono noticing and then come back to meet her tomorrow after everybody has had time to calm down. I doubt that things are going to be that easy, but it is theoretically possible.
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
-
- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
DracoDracul
Transbian Communist
- Location
- Austin
- Pronouns
- She/They
I should point out that will only work if Gwen isn't on her person as otherwise it will pull her into the time stop.
I think you're underselling Koobs. He's had this system up and running for hundreds of thousands of years without disaster striking. Just because it did strike shortly after we got to start watching doesn't mean that he's an idiot; he played the odds and kept on winning. Millions1 of girls contracted with everything going just as planned™.
Honestly, even Madokami wasn't that bad from an incubator perspective; they were still collecting energy, still reducing entropy, just not as much. Well, OK, she'd be considered a disaster compared to anything but Homucifer, but you really can't blame them for not learning anything from the experience since she technically had always never existed.
So, one or two failures (again, out of millions of contracts) in the system of a sort they couldn't predict, so they're idiots? Doesn't fly. They were wrong, obviously, but that doesn't mean stupid. Let's be honest: barring spoilers, did you see either Madoka's wish or Homura's rebellion coming?
It seems that most contracting girls have more important things on their minds than bunnycats. Even the ones looking for the catch assume that the catch is going to be in the wish, because the incubators planted/popularized those be-careful-what-you-wish-for stories.
And nobody's worried about Ultimate Gretchen. She's even more of a paradox than Madokami is, since she's Madokami's witch and witches are something that can't exist within the reach of the Law of the Cycles. Although it can be argued, I suppose, that Ultimate Gretchen is more-or-less the power stolen by Homura, since taking Madokami's grief would both grant Homura Gretchen's power and protect Madoka from it.
1: Homo sapiens has been a thing for ~200,000 years. Therefore, Koobs only needs to average ten contracts a year worldwide to have contracted 'millions' of girls. And we know of six or seven in just Mitakihara during Homura's loops. (Homura, Madoka, Sayaka, Yuma, Oriko, Kirika, and Nagisa (maybe))
Honestly, even Madokami wasn't that bad from an incubator perspective; they were still collecting energy, still reducing entropy, just not as much. Well, OK, she'd be considered a disaster compared to anything but Homucifer, but you really can't blame them for not learning anything from the experience since she technically had always never existed.
So, one or two failures (again, out of millions of contracts) in the system of a sort they couldn't predict, so they're idiots? Doesn't fly. They were wrong, obviously, but that doesn't mean stupid. Let's be honest: barring spoilers, did you see either Madoka's wish or Homura's rebellion coming?
It seems that most contracting girls have more important things on their minds than bunnycats. Even the ones looking for the catch assume that the catch is going to be in the wish, because the incubators planted/popularized those be-careful-what-you-wish-for stories.
And nobody's worried about Ultimate Gretchen. She's even more of a paradox than Madokami is, since she's Madokami's witch and witches are something that can't exist within the reach of the Law of the Cycles. Although it can be argued, I suppose, that Ultimate Gretchen is more-or-less the power stolen by Homura, since taking Madokami's grief would both grant Homura Gretchen's power and protect Madoka from it.
1: Homo sapiens has been a thing for ~200,000 years. Therefore, Koobs only needs to average ten contracts a year worldwide to have contracted 'millions' of girls. And we know of six or seven in just Mitakihara during Homura's loops. (Homura, Madoka, Sayaka, Yuma, Oriko, Kirika, and Nagisa (maybe))
To my original point, however, Kyubey is immediately taken aback by Madoka's anti-witch wish, and pretty much as soon as he perceives what Homura's become he tries to nope off the planet. But Kriemhild Gretchen? Nah. He just sits there and admires his handiwork. He's admittedly surprised by how powerful she is, but she's not something that concerns him as a power.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Then we better not fuck this up.
We need to prove ourselves. Prove to Homura that even the 'hopeless idiots' can be helped.
You know that would scare her, right?
We already gave her quite the scare the first time, meeting her in Homura's world, AND catching her with her guard down. With her facade being so important to her...
If we pull this stealth-cleanse-bye right now while she's so pissed, she's gonna flip. She'll know she doesn't have any power as long as we're around; we not only don't need her consent, we can do what we want without her even noticing. She seemed really big on social and hierarchical structure, and really sour about being on the bottom.
Stepping out momentarily, just going to leave this here.
[] Wait. Stop for a moment. Realize you might be regressing back into pre-Sendai habits. If she's spiraling and needs a cleanse, that's one thing, but it's entirely possible that she's just annoyed at you.
-[] Give Oriko a quick call and ask her if Ono will be fine until tomorrow. If she will and you're overreacting, head back to the apartment. If she won't, then proceed as planned.
[] Wait. Stop for a moment. Realize you might be regressing back into pre-Sendai habits. If she's spiraling and needs a cleanse, that's one thing, but it's entirely possible that she's just annoyed at you.
-[] Give Oriko a quick call and ask her if Ono will be fine until tomorrow. If she will and you're overreacting, head back to the apartment. If she won't, then proceed as planned.
So we should threaten to break into her house, and actually goes though with it if she doesn't come out quickly enough?
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
At least she'll know it's happening.
What if there are other people in there. Her family? She might very well attack us if we just break in.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
If she's so bad that we need to break in, her family and the other people might die if we don't.
How can we convince Ono to come out, if she only shuts us off?
Do you think we could knock and convince whoever answers that we're friends making a visit? we could be stepping on social landmines, but... Maybe?
[X] To Homura: "Thoughts?" Prod her to talk if she seems she wants to say something, but not too much.
[X] When you find her, remotely check Ono's Gem and Seed's grief levels; if she's doing fine grief-wise, go back home. Apologize to Mami and Homura about the waste of time, and ask about the 100m range on your abilities on the way back. Help Mami with her homework if there's still time, and ask Mami if Homura can stay over the night.
[X] If Ono's grief levels are critical, coridally ask her to meet you outside. Insist as much as necessary.
-[X] If she doesn't cooperate, inform her that the grief in her gem doesn't only affect her thought, leading to magical depression, it also feeds into itself, growing exponentially. She should always keep her Gem less than a third full, if she can help it at all.
-[X] If she still doesn't give, tell her if her Gem ever fills up completely with grief, she'll die.
-[X] If she still won't come out, give her a five minutes warning that you'll knock and come in or break in or whatever you need to do, and cleanse her grief forcefully.
Last edited:
I assume that she was pulled into Time-stop when we cleansed her gem because it was her soul that was being cleansed. I don't think that cleansing a seed would have the same effect (though I could be wrong).
The question is: would stealth cleansing cause Ono to be more angry than us confronting her and demanding to talk with her and not taking "no" for an answer? Apparently we're planning on barging right into her house by force if we need to. The goal is to save Ono's life, but I can't see any way that we can do this that isn't going to make Ono angry.
Perhaps "idiot" is overstating it a bit, but point is that incubators have demonstrated a remarkable lack of caution when dealing with things they don't understand.
1. Pre-wish Madoka had a potential that was literally unmeasurable by incubator capabilities. Previous experiences with magical girls don't count because Madoka's potential was higher than all of them put together. But rather than treating this anomaly with extreme caution, Kyuubey went out of his way to maximize the likelihood of a contract by increasing Madoka's suffering as much as possible. The possibility that this might backfire does not seem to have occurred to him.
2. In Rebellion, the incubators find a girl (Homura) who has a personal connection to the Law of Cycles. Again, previous experiences with magical girls doesn't count because Homura was the only person who personally knew Madokami. But rather than treating this anomaly with extreme caution, Kyuubey went out of his way to maximize Homura's suffering in order to try to control Madokami. Again, the possibility that this might backfire does not seem to have occurred to him.
My point is that Kriemhild Gretchen is a similar thing. All of the incubators' previous experiences with witches does not matter because Kriemhild Gretchen is orders of magnitude stronger than anything they have ever had experience with in the past. Kriemhild Gretchen is dangerous enough to wipe out Earth (or maybe the entire solar system - the translations I've seen are a bit unclear), but Kyuubey does not seem to be concerned that she will cause a problem for the incubators. But based on his track record of dealing with entities in Kriemhild Gretchen's weight class, I suspect that Kyuubey's confidence is unfounded.
Dedolere/Sabrina is (of course) another entity that the incubators are overconfident about their ability to deal with. Which is good because it would be rather more difficult for us to break the system if the incubators were properly paranoid.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
We don't need to break in to cleanse her, remember? We can just hover over her house, take her grief, and leave, without any conflict caused by breaking into her house, although I imagine she'll be angry about the cleansing, though it's not like we didn't warn her.
I really don't know. We're completely in the dark onto what her exact situation is, what's she doing right now, and where exactly she is right now. So, it's a little hard to exactly know what to do here in advance.
If her gem really is that critical, we can just cleanse her from the outside because of our range or with timestop. I think she barely even noticed when we had cleansed her in timestop last time. And at least it would be better than loudly busting into her home. Or maybe just the threat alone will convince her to come out and we won't have to do anything.
You know, it could potentially be a lot easier to figure out what to do here and to what degree if we weren't so squeamish about contacting Oriko and annoying Homura.
[X] Wait. Stop for a moment.
-[X] Give Oriko a quick call and ask her if Ono will be fine until tomorrow. If she will and you're overreacting, head back to the apartment. If she won't, then proceed as planned.
-[X] Give Oriko a quick call and ask her if Ono will be fine until tomorrow. If she will and you're overreacting, head back to the apartment. If she won't, then proceed as planned.
EtchedSteel
*mumble mumble*
- Location
- Lima. Peru
Yeah, actually.
When in doubt...
[X] Wait. Stop for a moment.
-[X] Give Oriko a quick call and ask her if Ono will be fine until tomorrow. If she will and you're overreacting, head back to the apartment. If she won't, then proceed as planned.
When in doubt...
[X] Wait. Stop for a moment.
-[X] Give Oriko a quick call and ask her if Ono will be fine until tomorrow. If she will and you're overreacting, head back to the apartment. If she won't, then proceed as planned.
- Location
- East of the Sun and West of the Moon
Getting girls with high potential to contract is the reason Kyubey is on Earth in the first place. Pushing Madoka to contract isn't being stupid, it's doing his job. Also, deciding a risk is worth taking =/= being unaware that a risk exists. The immeasurably high payout offsets the slim chance that of all the possible things she could spend her one and only wish on, her highest priority will be smiting bunnycats.
Which, you know, it wasn't. The bunnycats were doing well for themselves in the new universe before Rebellion happened.
Again, he could have just decided that the possibility of understanding and controlling a law of the universe that directly impacts his Grief-harvesting operations. After all, the Law of Cycles spent the entirety of bunnycat existence making no apparent hostile actions towards the bunnycats. It is evidently either unwilling or unable to prevent them from spending millennia turning countless aliens, including this Homura one who has some special connection with it, into short-lived liches. Given that precedent, it is not unreasonable to conclude that the Law of Cycles is not a great enough threat to offset the potential benefits.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
I really don't want to call Oriko on this, specially with Homura watching how we deal with this... thisness she tried and failed to do so many times.
Plus, what's the point of calling Oriko? We're halfway there and we can remotely check by ourselves whether Ono's fine or not, and she won't know we're there if we don't want to.
[X] To Homura: "Thoughts?" Prod her to talk if she seems she wants to say something, but not too much.
[X] When you find her, remotely check Ono's Gem and Seed's grief levels.
-[X] If she's fine, go home.
-[X] If she needs cleansing, ask her to meet you outside.
--[X] If she doesn't, insist and explain the dangers of Soul Gem corruption, starting with Grief Spirals, then Death.
---[X] If she still won't cooperate, warn (Apologize?) her and cleanse her Seed remotely.
Plus, what's the point of calling Oriko? We're halfway there and we can remotely check by ourselves whether Ono's fine or not, and she won't know we're there if we don't want to.
[X] To Homura: "Thoughts?" Prod her to talk if she seems she wants to say something, but not too much.
[X] When you find her, remotely check Ono's Gem and Seed's grief levels.
-[X] If she's fine, go home.
-[X] If she needs cleansing, ask her to meet you outside.
--[X] If she doesn't, insist and explain the dangers of Soul Gem corruption, starting with Grief Spirals, then Death.
---[X] If she still won't cooperate, warn (Apologize?) her and cleanse her Seed remotely.
Last edited:
- Location
- SoCal
Yeah, we can't have Oriko help us if we want to improve relations with Homura.
I don't think cleansing her Soul Gem without permission is a good idea - we should only cleanse the seed, or put off this decision until we have more info.
[X] To Homura: "Thoughts?" Prod her to talk if she seems she wants to say something, but not too much.
[X] When you find her, remotely check Ono's Gem and Seed's grief levels.
-[X] If she's fine, go home.
-[X] If she needs cleansing, ask her to meet you outside.
--[X] If she doesn't, insist and explain the dangers of Soul Gem corruption, starting with Grief Spirals, then Death.
---[X] If she still won't cooperate, warn (Apologize?) her and cleanse her Seed remotely.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
Yes. I want to try and inspire some hope in her. Show her this can be done.
Makes sense. But I did put that (Apologize?) in there because I don't know if it is warranted/necessary/useful/too many apologies today. Thoughts?
I do think we might have to be a bit more blunt and insistent this time around. Trying to be so diplomatic didn't exactly work for us. And despite my dislike for actually breaking into her house, we do kind of have to meet up with her now if she really is in serious trouble.
I don't suppose anyone else has any more ideas?
I don't suppose anyone else has any more ideas?
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
I guess instead of breaking in we could fly/sit outside her window and knock.
- Location
- SoCal
I think we just need to be sincere with her - no bullshitting. Apologizing is fine, because we (as the thread and therefore Sabrina) are feeling genuinely apologetic, but we also have to make our points regarding meguca safety.
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
We are?
DracoDracul
Transbian Communist
- Location
- Austin
- Pronouns
- She/They
While this is admittedly shadow running quite hard, I fear if we are too aggressive Mami will start asking why we are so desperate to keep Ono's gem clean and Kyubey will use that as an opportunity to drop the witchbomb.
- Location
- SoCal
Well, there's been more comments on understanding her side of things than usual - I'm (generously) interpreting that as a conscience.
Well, I'm feeling more irritation than understanding.