Remove ads

Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

Reader mode
NSMS said:
Also possible, although if that's the case there's obviously a limit to it (as it gets one-shotted by Madoka in later timelines).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
But Madoka never urvives oneshoting it. Even in the final timeline she doesn't survive, but instead screws with causality in a way that makes death or survival irrelevant.

Another possibility is that Walpurgisnacht gets stronger from (beating it) being the secondary focus of Homura's loops.
 
NSMS said:
That method of her gaining karma does explain why her potential is so high by the end of the series (and a quick check on the wiki agrees with you), but the problem is it actually puts it as being too high, too quickly, for what's shown. It's all very well to say that, but she very much didn't show that sort of ability or have it mentioned. With that much power, Walmart (a gestalt of a mere few dozen or hundred or thousand witches) would be nothing to her (and Homura or Mami would have remarked on her strength). And yet the city was still destroyed and she still exhausted her magic against it. Which is... confusing.

To me it implies that she doesn't get the whole universe's karma added to hers, but merely a portion of it; that month's worth is what I'd guess, as her fate only controls that universe's fate for the next month- after that, it'll either no longer exist, exist with her alive/dead in it, or carry on with her fate no longer controlling it (depending on how exactly you interpret Homura's time travel as working). Still a huge amount, but not quite as over the top as the entire universe, and more in line with what we actually see.
That was more in reference to your 'must destroy a city to kill Walmart' comment, but fair enough. I still think you're rather overselling it, though.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, there's still the fact that the wish you make makes a huge difference. Plus the fact that "power" and "soul gem capacity" aren't the same thing. So, with her arrow, timeline two Madoka could easily kill Wally ... and possibly blow up the Solar System, but the fact that she is capable of using enormous amounts of magic doesn't change the fact that using lots of magic witches you out. That said, the idea that only that month counts does make sense.

Also, word of god is that when Homura leaves a timeline, that timeline continues existing without her. This is one of the things that becomes relevant when Madoka becomes omniversal.

EDIT: But it is true that Wally could have secondary powers interfering, such us:

"I wish to always be as strong as my greatest enemy"

"I wish that the more powerful my enemies attacks become, the tougher I become"

"I wish that no one I have ever defeated would ever be able to defeat me"

"I wish that the more my enemy knows about/hates me, the tougher I'd become"

etc.
 
Last edited:
techsy730 said:
Waking up Madokami should be easy.

Sabrina: "Hey Madoka, what do you want to be when you grow up?"
Madoka: "Well, they said I could be anything, so maybe I can become a goddess. Oh wait, I already am." *Madokami reawakens*

:V
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
What is it with people not posting the relevant pics today?


NSMS said:
How to kill Walmart, Sabrina edition:
1) Homura uses timestop with Sabrina and Mami.
2) Sabrina keeps Mami's soul gem clean as she fires 10,000 Tiro Finale at Walmart.
3) Homura ends timestop.
4) We all go out for ice cream.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Oh, well. That's a nice plan, except FOR THE FACT THAT ALL THE ICE CREAM PARLORS WILL BE CLOSED BECAUSE HURRICANES! DID YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, UH?

Terrible planning skills.
 
Onmur said:
What is it with people not posting the relevant pics today?



Oh, well. That's a nice plan, except FOR THE FACT THAT ALL THE ICE CREAM PARLORS WILL BE CLOSED BECAUSE HURRICANES! DID YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, UH?

Terrible planning skills.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We can just fly to another city. Your argument is invalid. :p
 
Sereg said:
EDIT: But it is true that Wally could have secondary powers interfering, such us:

"I wish to always be as strong as my greatest enemy"

"I wish that the more powerful my enemies attacks become, the tougher I become"

"I wish that no one I have ever defeated would ever be able to defeat me"

"I wish that the more my enemy knows about/hates me, the tougher I'd become"

etc.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Here's another angle for it

"I wish that I was invincible/invulnerable/immortal"

My personal headcanon is that a wish like that grants a Berserker!Hercules type invincibility that protects against everything except yourself witching out (because that doesn't actually hurt you) and magical attacks that contain a greater amount of power than the wish potential of the girl who made the invincibility wish.
 
Onmur said:
Damn you NSMS! We can't plan things if you keep changing the plan midway through! That's why we can't get anything done in here.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Au contrair; I only have two operational modes:

1) Plan things out to the smallest detail, institute multiple contingencies, and try to account for every possible eventuality (and some impossible ones).
2) Make everything up as I go along.

And right now I'm in mode 2, so there is no plan and thus I cannot be changing it midway through. Q.E.D.
 
[q]hug mumi
-[q]mecha gurren zilla lagann
--[q]Defeat homucifer with the power of friendship
 
justinkal said:
Here's another angle for it

"I wish that I was invincible/invulnerable/immortal"

My personal headcanon is that a wish like that grants a Berserker!Hercules type invincibility that protects against everything except yourself witching out (because that doesn't actually hurt you) and magical attacks that contain a greater amount of power than the wish potential of the girl who made the invincibility wish.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I've actually thought of a girl like this before. Her wish was:

"I wish I could never be hurt again."

Her meat puppet body is completely invulnerable to any damage whatsoever, but she automatically spends magic to negate damage and is thus very vulnerable to grief spiraling.
 
Sereg said:
We have to work out how to stop her from ripping up buildings and so forth as well.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Sereg said:
My guess has been "If it can't destroy Mitikihara, it can't destroy Walpurginacht" for a while now
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
These are very good reasons for trying to figure out where Wally is going to arrive from and taking it out before it gets to Mitakihara. We've got a precog on our side: this should be a relatively easy question.

BlackoutSampler said:
I feel there are going to be issues getting everyone inside the timestop, first of which is getting her to trust anyone to be inside her timestop. Homura is all about not letting anyone get close, I feel there will be issues for her to let random girls inside what is essentially her little world. Mami and Sabrina get a pass due to being friends, Oriko got a pass because it was putting Oriko at her mercy. Jane McRandom Megura probably is too much of a stranger to risk letting inside Homura's last defense.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't expect that we'll be having a large fighting force. Sabrina and Homura and Mami, for sure. Oriko and Kirika and Ono if they manage to survive until then. Masami and Hiroko if they decide to stay and defend their home. Kyouko and Yuma if we can convince them to come. In PMMM, Kyouko asked for Mitakihara, but we're not going to give away our home territory and we don't have anything truly valuable to offer in payment. We might be able to convince one or two other girls if we put a lot of work into it and they're really idealistic sorts. But that's it. 3 girls at the low end, no more than a dozen even if we're insanely successful in recruiting.

Secondly, we don't know how much of a strain it would be stopping time for that many people. might be none, might be too much to handle. We would have to ask her, and we all know how forthcoming Homu's with her personal secrets.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
True. It definitely isn't a guarantee that Homura would be capable of supporting that many people in the middle of a fight. But it wouldn't hurt to ask. Fighting Walpurgisnacht is one of the things that Homura has a single minded focus for. She would not mind all of the long discussions and planning and work that will be involved as long as the destruction of Walpurgisnacht is the goal.

On Sabrina's personal Artillery: yeah we will probably have something going past that 100 meter mark by then. (personally I'm banking on a Magitech Greif Railgun and shaping a I-Beam or 20 into some ballistic missiles and enchanting the crap outta them) I just don't want to assume on stuff we might have until we start to have a better idea on what we will certainly have. (ex. everyone might bail except Homura and Mami, we could science up a attack that would be ultra-super-effective and negates the need for most of the plan ect.) that is why there was such a emphasis on gathering people and making plans with them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Agreed.

On Support: god this is such a toss-up. Technically Homura should be on the Support team with the teleporters. problem is that again, we won't be certain who will bail and who will stay (on top of Homura's trust issues). On top of that, Support is a ridiculously wide field that is defined by abilities that could come in all shapes and sizes, and we don't know what abilities we will be working with. At least with the other classes we will be assured that someone will fit somewhere in one of the classes as well as have at least one person in each class. It will be alot more important figuring out who we have before setting the procedures they will follow.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Agreed. I just brought it up because it's a general category of planning that will need to be considered eventually, and it wasn't mentioned in the initial list.

Sereg said:
Because it isn't a doubling of karma. The first time that Homura rewound time, she made Madoka into the most important person in the Universe. More than that, she made Madoka into the very reason that the Universe exists. Timeline two Madoka had an entire Universe worth of karma as it all exists because of her. Every subsequent iteration added another universe worth of karma to Madoka.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Maybe. Or maybe it was more gradual than that, but we're in the current timeline, not the second one, so the actual growth rate doesn't matter. Kyuubey said that Madoka's karmic potential is literally unmeasurable by his tools. Her witch is capable of destroying the solar system and her wish is capable of rewriting reality.
 
Sereg said:
I've actually thought of a girl like this before. Her wish was:

"I wish I could never be hurt again."

Her meat puppet body is completely invulnerable to any damage whatsoever, but she automatically spends magic to negate damage and is thus very vulnerable to grief spiraling.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's interesting too. My idea was based on the logic that wishes are normally inviolable, but a wish can probably be overrided by a wish from someone with more potential.

Edit:
Question to everybody. Would trying to telepathy Walpurgisnacht feel more like Cthulhu or more like Instrumentality?
 
Sereg said:
I personally have never subscribed to the conjecture that Wally resists magical and mundane attacks differently. I also believe that the first times that Madoka beat her, she used soul gem detonation, which I doubt you can outperform, as that would remove the point of soul gem detonation.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Eh...The PSP game (which is was overseen by Urobuchi) contrasts this. She didn't detonate her Soul Gem because after Walpurgis was clearly dead, she was still around to say a few words before dying (somehow). This is the scenario that shows the timeline that Homura originally came from, or if Mami turned into a Witch in it, an extremely similar one. Honestly, the cause of death is very vague, but the fact that Madoka still had her consciousness means that it wasn't Soul Gem detonation.
Sereg said:
Because it isn't a doubling of karma. The first time that Homura rewound time, she made Madoka into the most important person in the Universe. More than that, she made Madoka into the very reason that the Universe exists. Timeline two Madoka had an entire Universe worth of karma as it all exists because of her. Every subsequent iteration added another universe worth of karma to Madoka. As for her fight with Oktavia, there is no indication that she knew how durable she was. It was natural to dodge if she didn't know she could tank pretty much anything (and even then, her enormous power doesn't change the fact that using a lot of it risks witchhood). She didn't oneshot Oktavia because she was trying diplomacy,. Otherwise Oktavia would be bye-bye.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm just going to have to disagree with this. There's no way Madoka would have that much karma from just a single time loop. Yes, Homura creates an entire timeline spanning 1.5 months because of her, but her power would have obviously skyrocketed in that case to the point where a Madoka with training could take out Walpurgis without witching out. I'd have to say that the karma thing is something similar to how Homura's timeline creation works, Urobuchi just made the basics of it and never really expanded upon the mechanics of it.
 
noahgab1133 said:
since someone mention za wardo

we should try to make a grief stand

for the lolz and powers

even if all does is hand out cakes
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Onmur said:
No, no, no... the wires crossed, I've got a new plan: Let's hug Walpurgisnacht into submission!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Homura Akemi was the walker of the unending path, prisoner of the labyrinth of time, hateful rebel under the stage-setting witch. She had seen more things in the course of what was technically one month than most Magical Girls did for a lifetime.

This, however, was a new one.

She was currently looking at a massive grinning simulacrum of a human being, a thing that offended her very senses, a thing that screamed at her that all her defiance and strength and planning was for naught, that she would die alone, unmourned, a failure at the one goal she had long since discarded all else for.

Sabrina, the aberrant magical girl, had done many odd things, but this was the culmination of her power, her final gambit. Could this be... it was... it was none other than the true form of MECHA GURREN ZILLA LAGANN.

The mighty Grief-behemoth swayed, its physique building and swelling, growing more muscular. It stepped up to the nut that Homura had always failed to crack, the gaping maw of its stomach grinning with impossible audacity. And with an undeniable power it wrapped the stage-setting witch in a bear-hug of truly epic proportions.
 
Last edited:
noahgab1133 said:
since someone mention za wardo

we should try to make a grief stand

for the lolz and powers

even if all does is hand out cakes
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Why not? We should always try to do something silly we've seen from fiction during our science sessions, just to see if we can; it could be very useful.

UnnamedDude said:
Could this be... it was... it was none other than the true form of MECHA GURREN ZILLA LAGANN
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

TENGEN TOPPA MECHA GURREN ZILLA LAGANN! OUR DRILL-HAIR IS THE DRILL-HAIR THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!
 
I blame you all.

Looking down on the world from a dark hill, Sabrina shouted triumphantly, "They told me I couldn't hug all my problems away! Well, where are they NOW? Hugged! All of them! Forever! Nothing can't be solved with Sufficient Hugs!"

Looking up at the titanic, dark blue shadow that covered the entire sky and further than could be seen beyond the horizon, Mami couldn't help but to shiver. "Sabrina?" She called, causing Sabrina to look back at her over her shoulder. "Maybe..." Mami bit her lip, "maybe not everybody wants hugs?"

Sabrina's eyes slightly widened as she blinked in confusion, before she snorted, shaking her head and turning around fully. "Of course everybody wants hugs!" she exclaimed. "They just... don't know it yet."

Mami shifted in place hesitatingly, eyes darting around, not quite holding Sabrina's look. "I don't know..." she wavered.

Seeing that, Sabrina walked towards Mami, slowly spreading her arms to the sides and smiling, "Mami?"

Mami's hand immediately reached out to Sabrina, before she flinched, looking away unsure, "Yes?"

As she got close enough to hear Mami's uneven breathing, Sabrina halted, arms still spread out invitingly. "Hug?" she asked.

Mami opened her mouth, but no sound came from it. She looked down, then to the side, and finally back to Sabrina, who simply stood and waited patiently. Second by second, Mami's resolve crumbled away, herself slowly moving forward, closing the diminute distance that separated the girls, her own arms reaching out, wrapping themselves around Sabrina. "I guess... it's not so bad? Even if they don't want it now..."

Sabrina simply held Mami close.


...


Amongst the black void of space, a blue sphere spins, while orbiting a much bigger ball of plasma. Before it had completed it's latest few spins on it's own axis, nothing out of the ordinary would have been noticed by looking at it.

Now, it is under another's grasp. Stretching over its land, a being coloured blue, topped in white watches over it, gleaming eyes and stretched mouth stuck on an expression of covetous fondness. Slowly, it's arms close around the World, drawing itself close to it.

Far from hurt, it's countless inhabitant can't help but feel a warm, welcoming presence engulf their very beings, and know, deep inside, that they would never be alone.



[HUG END]
 
Last edited:
On the matter of how Madoka's potential has grown, Sereg is misunderstanding Kyubey's dialog. Firstly, the PSP game is a thing and we also have Nasuverse-style stats for the girl's power levels on various fields from the first three timelines, and Madoka's stats are at this point growing alarmingly fast but still not stupendously unreasonable (nothing beats Homura's Magic 7 out of 5 score, for instance).

Kyubey's theory of Madoka's growth is that the karmic fatelines of every hypothetical Madoka is being tied to the current active Madoka, which basically means each timeline is SQUARING (not doubling) Madoka's potential power. This seems to be the intent the narrative is trying to convey, as Madoka's powers don't get stupid-powerful after two loops but she also becomes a reality warping goddess before Homura blew her own brains out in frustration at Loop Number 100,097,054,332,955.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top