Boone vote also pesters Homura to check on Megane (if we're going to do it, we should do it ourselves), invites Mami to the Yakuza raid without asking Homu first, and more feather shennanigans.

I'm iffy on the Mami invite. The rest of it is stuff I wouldn't do or go about it in a completely different way.
 
Right here and now, silence is far more likely to come across as awkward or us not knowing how to help than supportive. And given Mami's current mental state, her thoughts are not going to be along healthy or pleasant lines if she's left to her own devices or with no distraction- thoughts of us dying or leaving her are very likely to be prominent and repeated. You're right that silence is powerful, but it can be powerful in a bad way too.
Why silence and not words?
Mami is coming off of a panic attack that Sabrina had left her just like she had feared. That was NOT the case, but Mami is still feeling that pain. Right now, she needs the reassurance that Sabrina is here and isn't going anywhere. That reassurance comes from physical presence, not from words. And (historically speaking) Sabrina has been pretty bad with words anyway. My thought here is that silence is powerful in a good way because it reinforces our presence without using any distracting words.

What does "be supportive" mean? What verbs will be performed?
Being physically close is the primary thing. Hugging if that's what Mami wants.

As for magic versus grief, they're very closely related; close enough that for Sabrina I generally equate the two. And bringing up one is very likely to bring up associations with the other, especially given the recentness of what just happened and our past mishaps.
You may equate magic and grief (with good reason because the grief is controlled by Sabrina's magic), but Mami does not equate the two. Mami is experienced with magic, so it isn't dangerous experimentation for her, instead it's an opportunity show off something that she's good at.

And, like I said before, there's a chance it'll trigger some sort of 'she only wants me for my skills' reaction, seeing as (in my view) your vote reads as it will come across as neglecting Mami and her emotions, not supporting them.
I don't think that Mami is in danger of having a "she only wants me for my skills" reaction. Mami knows that we care about her and want to be with her. Mami isn't (primarily) worried that we'll abandon her intentionally, she's worried that we will be taken away by circumstances outside of our control (like what happened in the past 30 minutes). There's not really anything that we can say to Mami to address this fear. All we can do is to show her that we're here for her now.
 
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I would consider the removal of those lines to be an improvement on the Agent Whiskers vote.

I would consider the suggested changes to the boonerrunner vote better, but not enough.

And if I have to sound like a Disney musical to cheer up Mami, I'll do so. (I actually considered pulling the mirror trick from Beauty and the Beast before remembering it wouldn't work. I also considered tying our hands together)

In any event, I want to do more than we have been when it comes to Mami. I want an active demonstration.
 
Boone vote also pesters Homura to check on Megane (if we're going to do it, we should do it ourselves)
I quite agree. In fact, going to see Megane together with Mami is my first choice. I just don't expect that it will be possible to do so, so I included Homura checking up on her as a contingency. What I absolutely do not want to do is nothing, which is what all of the other votes do.

invites Mami to the Yakuza raid without asking Homu first.
If Mami is going to come with us, we have to talk to one of them first. To be quite honest, I'm talking to Mami first because I expect that she'll say no. The whole expedition is primarily for Homura's sake (Homura needs to steal guns, while Mami can make her own), and we're mostly just tagging along because we want to hang out with Homura. And if Mami does want to come, I don't think that Homura would have a problem with it.

and more feather shennanigans.
Yes. I want spend some time looking into this clue. Feathers is related to what is probably the greatest threat that Sabrina will ever face. So yes, I do think that this is important.

I would consider the suggested changes to the boonerrunner vote better, but not enough.
I will add the changes. What other changes would you suggest?
 
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@boonerunner
What purpose does encouraging Mami serve? Why is it less problematic than possibly making her imagine terrible things happening and freaking out more?

-----

And if I have to sound like a Disney musical to cheer up Mami, I'll do so. (I actually considered pulling the mirror trick from Beauty and the Beast before remembering it wouldn't work. I also considered tying our hands together)

But my point was that I don't think it will work and be meaningless at best, actively detrimental in worst case. I mean, are you assuming that it'll make us look silly and get a giggle out of Mami? I grant that it's possible, but you'll have to discuss in more detail before I will conclude that it's plausible.
 
What purpose does encouraging Mami serve? Why is it less problematic than possibly making her imagine terrible things happening and freaking out more?
Why would Mami imagine that terrible things would come from practicing magic? Magic is something she's good at. She knows how it works and has even had some experience with teaching it to someone else. The worrying part is all this strange grief stuff that she has no experience with.

I would also like to mention that our barrier creation and implementation actually worked flawlessly. The 30 minute fugue state is merely the cost of creating an awesome cityscape. The problem was not with the demonstration itself but with the fact that we did not warn Mami ahead of time (or realize that a warning was needed). This was our fault (i.e. for not paying enough attention to the previous attempt), so we do need to apologize to Mami. But creating the cityscape was not a dangerous action in and of itself.
 
I will add the changes. What other changes would you suggest?

[] Discreetly encase the feather in solid grief and move it among the other masses of grief, without bothering Mami.

I want more precautions against something going wrong with the feather.

[] Apologize for worrying Mami, then give her some time to recover her composure.

Change "some time" to "a moment". If it's taking her a while, she needs help.

[] Ask Mami if she would still like to practice magic, maybe show us how to do some of the things she mentioned yesterday.

Needs an alternative if she doesn't want to.

[] Ask if Mami wants to go on the excursion with Homura.

Mami is likely to freak out if she finds out what we're doing. Not safe.


[] When Homura comes by (and Mami isn't present), show her the feather and tell her where we found it. Discuss the feather, then ask to go see Oriko together.

Maybe. I want to examine it by ourselves first before we commit to showing it to Homura. If we visit Oriko ourselves, we can ask her how Homura would react without breaking our telepathy promise.

In any event, Mami has had enough of our silence in the last half-hour. She wants us talking and responsive. I also don't want to lead Mami in directions we want. I want to ask her what she wants.

But my point was that I don't think it will work and be meaningless at best, actively detrimental in worst case. I mean, are you assuming that it'll make us look silly and get a giggle out of Mami? I grant that it's possible, but you'll have to discuss in more detail before I will conclude that it's plausible.

I don't see it as meaningless and I think it will help. I don't see it as detrimental. I'm not trying to look silly. I'm trying to look ... adorable. And passionate. To show Mami that being torn from her horrifies us as much as it does her and that we will do whatever it takes to get back to her I'm trying to make Mami feel valued. And to show her that the bond we share is not fragile. And yes, that we're willing to look silly to protect it.
 
@Sereg

[] Discreetly encase the feather in solid grief and move it among the other masses of grief, without bothering Mami.

I want more precautions against something going wrong with the feather.

IMO your vote takes securing the feather to overkill levels. Also using active grief probably isn't a good idea.
 
[] Discreetly encase the feather in solid grief and move it among the other masses of grief, without bothering Mami.

I want more precautions against something going wrong with the feather.
Note that the feather doesn't feel witchy, so I'm not too worried about it. And even if the feather is dangerous in and of itself, then we're taking precautions to keep it away from us by only touching it with grief. If it reacts poorly with grief, then I don't know what we can do apart from just leaving it alone.

[] Apologize for worrying Mami, then give her some time to recover her composure.

Change "some time" to "a moment". If it's taking her a while, she needs help.
I agree that "some time" is too vague and could take too long, but "a moment" seems too short. Changed to "a minute".

[] Ask Mami if she would still like to practice magic, maybe show us how to do some of the things she mentioned yesterday.

Needs an alternative if she doesn't want to.
The alternative is to skip to the part where we go home and drink tea and eat supper (if she doesn't want to practice magic then visiting Ono would also be out).

[] Ask if Mami wants to go on the excursion with Homura.

Mami is likely to freak out if she finds out what we're doing. Not safe.
Mami already knows about Walpurgisnacht. Which is the reason that Homura is stocking up on weapons. Mami might disapprove of stealing, and she might be surprised by the quantity of weapons that Homura takes, but she wouldn't freak out.

[] When Homura comes by (and Mami isn't present), show her the feather and tell her where we found it. Discuss the feather, then ask to go see Oriko together.

Maybe. I want to examine it by ourselves first before we commit to showing it to Homura. If we visit Oriko ourselves, we can ask her how Homura would react without breaking our telepathy promise.
It would be nice to examine the feather on our own with all of the sensing equipment that we can come up with, but we don't really have any opportunity to do that. Unless we do it while Mami is watching, which I don't want to do right now.

In any event, Mami has had enough of our silence in the last half-hour. She wants us talking and responsive. I also don't want to lead Mami in directions we want. I want to ask her what she wants.
Mami already said that she wanted to practice magic. The logical next step would be to ask if that's still what she wants. Although you do have a good point - I will add an open-ended question to see if there's anything else that Mami wants to do before heading home.

Why would Mami imagine that terrible things would come from practicing magic?
...because she saw us almost go black when we tried to steal a familiar, and zone out for half an hour just now, and a while back she saw us almost hatch a witch on top of ourselves?
In Mami's mind, these things are probably all related to grief and witches, not to magic.
 
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@Agent Whiskers

I have no worthwhile opinion on the dialog lines but I would rearrange the vote to ask Mami what she wants to do first before asking if she wants to go home.

Sure.

[X] Discreetly encase the feather in solid grief and move it among the other masses of grief, without bothering Mami.
[X] Hug her and apologize for worrying her, again. Keep reassuring and supporting her.
[X]Ask her what she wants to do. If she doesn't mention anything, ask if she wants to go home.
[X]If she does want to go home then...
-[x]Put the kettle on with a few grief marbles without leaving Mami's side
-[x]Ask Mami if she wants to talk. Listen if she does.
-[x]Otherwise, ask if she wants to do something like watch a movie, anything else, or just sit there.

I'm probably won't be able to come back here for the day, so you guys feel free to make up your own vote if you object to anything or want to add something.
 
@Sereg



IMO your vote takes securing the feather to overkill levels. Also using active grief probably isn't a good idea.

We don't know anything about this other than it blocks Oriko's visions and she's freaked out by it. We should acknowledge the possibility of literally anything going wrong. If my protections are overkill (which they are) then that's fine as nothing goes wrong from being overly cautious. Us being this cautious doesn't cost us anything. Overlooking even one possibility and therefore being slightly underprepared can cause disaster.

We don't know if this thing will disintegrate, rapidly decay, spontaneously combust, emit radiation, attempt to take over our mind, react to the air, transform into a monster or act as an Incubator targeting system.I don't want us taking chances with it while we are focused on something else.

Note that the feather doesn't feel witchy, so I'm not too worried about it. And even if the feather is dangerous in and of itself, then we're taking precautions to keep it away from us by only touching it with grief. If it reacts poorly with grief, then I don't know what we can do apart from just leaving it alone.
See above.


I agree that "some time" is too vague and could take too long, but "a moment" seems too short. Changed to "a minute".

Deal.


The alternative is to skip to the part where we go home and drink tea and eat supper (if she doesn't want to practice magic then visiting Ono would also be out).

That wasn't clear as an alternate.


Mami already knows about Walpurgisnacht. Which is the reason that Homura is stocking up on weapons. Mami might disapprove of stealing, and she might be surprised by the quantity of weapons that Homura takes, but she wouldn't freak out.

In any event, I don't want to play with her emotions while she's vulnerable.


It would be nice to examine the feather on our own with all of the sensing equipment that we can come up with, but we don't really have any opportunity to do that. Unless we do it while Mami is watching, which I don't want to do right now.

We can do it in the bathroom if we have to. Or wait for school.


Mami already said that she wanted to practice magic. The logical next step would be to ask if that's still what she wants. Although you do have a good point - I will add an open-ended question to see if there's anything else that Mami wants to do before heading home.

Happy with that.
 
...Actually, I could sort of see how those two lines might hurt more than they help. Even if not for the same reasons as you. More the first than the second, though.

Quick, poll guys. Should I take those both or one of those lines out or leave it as is?
Keep them, they make sense and the boone vote is worse for their absence ie: not actually saying anything. The boone and sereg objections...don't make much sense.

Added the lines back in.

[] Discreetly encase the feather in solid grief and move it among the other masses of grief, without bothering Mami.
[] Hug her and apologize for worrying her, again.
-[]I...I've been an awful friend, haven't I? I keep hurting you, and it doesn't matter that I didn't mean to.
-[]Mami, I'd never leave you unless you wanted me to. You don't need to be scared of being alone.
[]Keep reassuring and supporting her.
[]Ask her what she wants to do. If she doesn't mention anything, ask if she wants to go home.
[]If she does want to go home then...
-[]Put the kettle on with a few grief marbles without leaving Mami's side
-[]Ask Mami if she wants to talk. Listen if she does.
-[]Otherwise, ask if she wants to do something like watch a movie, anything else, or just sit there.
 
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We don't know anything about this other than it blocks Oriko's visions and she's freaked out by it. We should acknowledge the possibility of literally anything going wrong. If my protections are overkill (which they are) then that's fine as nothing goes wrong from being overly cautious. Us being this cautious doesn't cost us anything. Overlooking even one possibility and therefore being slightly underprepared can cause disaster.

We don't know if this thing will disintegrate, rapidly decay, spontaneously combust, emit radiation, attempt to take over our mind, react to the air, transform into a monster or act as an Incubator targeting system.I don't want us taking chances with it while we are focused on something else.


See above.




Deal.




That wasn't clear as an alternate.




In any event, I don't want to play with her emotions while she's vulnerable.




We can do it in the bathroom if we have to. Or wait for school.




Happy with that.

You're going to have to explain to Mami why you're expecting a feather to nuke the whole goddamn area because what you're voting for is certainly not quiet.

I personally don't see half the precedent or justification for those protections or the active grief.
 
[X] Discreetly encase the feather in solid grief and move it among the other masses of grief, without bothering Mami.
[X] Hug her and apologize for worrying her, again.
-[X]I...I've been an awful friend, haven't I? I keep hurting you, and it doesn't matter that I didn't mean to.
-[X]Mami, I'd never leave you unless you wanted me to. You don't need to be scared of being alone.
Keep reassuring and supporting her.
[X]Ask her what she wants to do. If she doesn't mention anything, ask if she wants to go home.
[X]If she does want to go home then...
-[x]Put the kettle on with a few grief marbles without leaving Mami's side
-[x]Ask Mami if she wants to talk. Listen if she does.
-[x]Otherwise, ask if she wants to do something like watch a movie, anything else, or just sit there.
 
[X] Discreetly encase the feather in solid grief and move it among the other masses of grief, without bothering Mami.
[X] Hug her and apologize for worrying her, again.
-[X]I...I've been an awful friend, haven't I? I keep hurting you, and it doesn't matter that I didn't mean to.
-[X]Mami, I'd never leave you unless you wanted me to. You don't need to be scared of being alone.
Keep reassuring and supporting her.
[X]Ask her what she wants to do. If she doesn't mention anything, ask if she wants to go home.
[X]If she does want to go home then...
-[x]Put the kettle on with a few grief marbles without leaving Mami's side
-[x]Ask Mami if she wants to talk. Listen if she does.
-[x]Otherwise, ask if she wants to do something like watch a movie, anything else, or just sit there.
 
You're going to have to explain to Mami why you're expecting a feather to nuke the whole goddamn area because what you're voting for is certainly not quiet.

I personally don't see half the precedent or justification for those protections or the active grief.
We've got grief floating about right now. If we encase the feather and pick it up that way,
- we don't have to draw attention to it,
- we don't have to stop hugging the mumi,
- the grief will have no stronger a signature than the rest of the solid grief that we're lugging about,
- the feather is concealed, like the witch list, and
- we've established nominal physical containment.

(Mind you, we have no idea whatsoever what kind of threat it might represent. There's an outside chance that it's, iunno, an emergent hostile byproduct of grief engineering, and encasing it in grief might be the absolute worst possible thing we could do, but hey, balance of risks and all that).

E: Oh, you mean active grief. Disregard.
 
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I'm talking to Mami first because I expect that she'll say no.
Why would you expect that? She's limpeting on us. If we asked her if she'd like to come to the surface of the sun with us, she'd be hard pressed to say no.
For Mami, it would be a question of going on a "shopping trip" before spending the rest of the evening with Sabrina, or skipping the "shopping trip" and just spending the rest of the evening with Sabrina. She would be spending the whole time with us in either case, so it's just a question of whether or not she wants to go mess with some yakuza, and I suspect that the answer is "no". But if the answer is "yes", then that's good too. She can come with.

We don't know anything about this other than it blocks Oriko's visions and she's freaked out by it. We should acknowledge the possibility of literally anything going wrong. If my protections are overkill (which they are) then that's fine as nothing goes wrong from being overly cautious. Us being this cautious doesn't cost us anything. Overlooking even one possibility and therefore being slightly underprepared can cause disaster.

We don't know if this thing will disintegrate, rapidly decay, spontaneously combust, emit radiation, attempt to take over our mind, react to the air, transform into a monster or act as an Incubator targeting system.I don't want us taking chances with it while we are focused on something else.
I think that picking it up remotely with grief is sufficiently cautious.

In any event, I don't want to play with her emotions while she's vulnerable.
We already told her that we were going out with Homura. Not telling her what we are doing would be playing with her emotions in a different way. Personally, I'm inclined to think being open about the "shopping trip" is the best policy here. Mami already knows that Walpurgisnacht is serious business, so she should be fine with Homura picking up some firepower to fight against it.
 
For Mami, it would be a question of going on a "shopping trip" before spending the rest of the evening with Sabrina, or skipping the "shopping trip" and just spending the rest of the evening with Sabrina. She would be spending the whole time with us in either case, so it's just a question of whether or not she wants to go mess with some yakuza, and I suspect that the answer is "no". But if the answer is "yes", then that's good too. She can come with.


I think that picking it up remotely with grief is sufficiently cautious.


We already told her that we were going out with Homura. Not telling her what we are doing would be playing with her emotions in a different way. Personally, I'm inclined to think being open about the "shopping trip" is the best policy here. Mami already knows that Walpurgisnacht is serious business, so she should be fine with Homura picking up some firepower to fight against it.
Did you miss Gadjo's point?

She isn't in a state where she can say no if we ask.
 
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