- Location
- East of the Sun and West of the Moon
And Rebellion indicates that Sayaka is perfectly capable of growing away from her main-timeline flaws given the proper stimulus. All the knowledge of the fanbase ~= immersion in the Law of Cycles, right?
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Well, Rebellion Sayaka, while all kinds of awesome, still had her own flaws to a lesser extent and was a special case anyway.
Dirtnap
Kanmusu Affecionado
She kinda became part of the Law of Cycles. So...in a way, yes that is growing away from her canon timeline self.
Let's look at what Kyuubey said about wishes and potential:
Note that Homura mentions that raising the dead and turning a meguca back into a normal human are impossible, but she's in the middle of trying to convince Madoka not to contract at the time. And her wish does exactly that every time she goes back in time. So yeah, she's lying there. Death is not one of the known limitations for wishes, nor is witch reversal.Kyuubey said:
Observations:
1. Any wish is possible.
2. Apotheosis or Conceptual (and/or seemingly self-contradictory) wishes like Madoka's may be impossible unless an extraordinary amount of potential is involved.
3. Potential (and the nature of the wish) affects the strength of the meguca (and the witch) as well as the amount of energy that Kyuubey collects.
4. Kyuubey is being held in check by some sort of "rules". We ought to find out what those rules are and who is enforcing them. Maybe Homura knows? Or we can ask Kyuubey. He might answer.
5. We can't get an accurate number from Kyuubey to compare Madoka's potential to everyone else's. He might be able to guess a rough order-of-magnitude or at least a lower bound, but accurate numbers are going to be impossible.
Taken: Meguca Edition?
Gadjo
Doka
We already know for a fact that witch reversal isn't impossible. Madoka unwitches Sakaya with her wish in TDS.
CompassJimbo
Where’s Your North?
- Location
- The former Rubber Capital of the World
I noticed on that let's play being run by Sk8.:/
I am getting a lot of mileage out of this image.
- Location
- East of the Sun and West of the Moon
Point I'm going for is that there exists the possibility of Sayaka being able to adapt her strict moral code to a complex world of zombie witches and telepathic bunnycats, because there exists a Sayaka who did so.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Yes. I just want to see the monster of the week get taken down with ridiculous action movie stunts instead of magic... I wonder if there's a passive probability manipulator meguka in Madoka? If your main power is "being absurdly lucky", that sort of thing is probably your main method of killing witches (when it isn't hilarious Rube Goldberg shenanigans instead). The angst source can be that none of your friends get to share in your luck, so all of those near misses end up hitting them instead...
Kyuubey was talking to both Madoka and Sayaka when he said "I can grant you girls a single wish, no matter what it is!" And Homura's wish regularly allows her to raise the dead and reverse witching. As a side effect of the main wish.
1. It's true that Homura's power is not resurrection or witch reversal directly, but every time that she goes back in time, the people that died during the loop are raised back to life and the people who witched out are returned to normal. The mechanism for this happens to be time travel, but it shows that a normal wish is definitely capable of doing it. Unless Homura also had mind-boggling potential in her very first loop.
2. Kyuubey is deceitful, no doubt about that. His dishonesty by hiding the truth is absolutely reprehensible. But every direct statement has been literally true as far as we have ever been able to verify. It's possible that he is capable of direct falsehoods, but we have yet to see any evidence of it. Maybe he finds direct falsehoods distasteful and avoids them for personal reasons, or maybe that is another way that he is constrained by the "rules". But the fact that he said this is evidence, at any rate, and we can't just ignore it because he's a monster.
2. Kyuubey is deceitful, no doubt about that. His dishonesty by hiding the truth is absolutely reprehensible. But every direct statement has been literally true as far as we have ever been able to verify. It's possible that he is capable of direct falsehoods, but we have yet to see any evidence of it. Maybe he finds direct falsehoods distasteful and avoids them for personal reasons, or maybe that is another way that he is constrained by the "rules". But the fact that he said this is evidence, at any rate, and we can't just ignore it because he's a monster.
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Gadjo
Doka
We can't really have a serious argument about how much potential de-witching via wish costs, since we have no proper frame of reference for it. If we must know, we could ask Kyubey, but we don't like talking to him because information is not something to be given to Kyubey lightly.
Gadjo
Doka
Notice with Kyoko that he just constantly says that he has no evidence that what she wants to try will work. He doesn't exaggerate nor lie in that exchange.You're confusing cause and effect.
Yes, Kyubey definitely wouldn't exaggerate or lie. Just ask Kyouko.
It's probably more accurate to say that he can grant nearly any wish on an increasingly limited scale depending on how much power the wish demands and the potential of the contractee.
- Location
- spinning
We could do that.
However, if Sayaka gets injured then she best spend her next 2 years or so next to us. Because grief healing.
I recall that some estimates put grief conversion as bigger deal than antimatter. And, hey, look our testing procedures for it is massive amount of armor as far as possible for a single grain.
It's a nice idea, but precision at range is better archived with witch stuff.
*urge to modify the original verses*
We're 41% sure we're not a witch, and if we made Sayaka do it that number would....uh, go sideways?
Depends on potentials involved, I think. However, it should probably cost less than creating completely new soul like Kanna, but the wish-based magic may be prohibitively expensive.
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Gadjo
Doka
If someone were that terribly injured we'd just go beg a favor from Kyoko and Yuma, or Rin.
- Location
- spinning
Remember breathing in Fog in Worm? I'm thinking that if she gets injured and her injuries are healed partly by grief, then she is going to get it all over her body, so it doesn't need to be big of an injury to cause damage (though it'd be more spread-out, so idk if that'd be suddenly lot more harmful for small injuries) by leaving our range.
Though yeah, I forgot them. One thing I've been wondering, can healers resurrect civilians?
(Perhaps not, but want to find out.)
Gadjo
Doka
The presence of souls in this universe would suggest that the dead cannot be resurrected simply by mending their body.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Depends on the healer, I assume, though the vast majority could only reconstruct the corpse, maaaybe into a persistent vegetative state (the soul having passed on for normies, where megukas keep theirs in a shiny bauble). Some healers might be able to do It though, if their wish was specifically for resurrection ("I wish I could bring my family back!"), or if their healing is esoteric, working through time reversal or similar.
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- Location
- spinning
For meguca, yes, but for civvies soul is part of their brain, so I'm unsure.
Hm, wonder what happens if you use that on just-contracted meguca?
The Soul in PMMM also isn't a wiggity-woogity-ghost-thing. It's an actual part of the brain that the Incubators (somehow) isolate and turn into a wiggity-woogity rock.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
You get kidnapped by Kyubey to constantly revert witches back to grief spiral repeatedly to maximize despair generation?
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
I'd say that's up to interpretation. It's possible to interpret it that way, it's also possible to interpret it as being a wiggity woogity ghost thing that the Incubators attach turn into a physical object.