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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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[x] Rules:
-[x] Non-lethal attacks only. Also try to avoid de-limbing and such.
-[x] First to yield loses. A match ends if one of us is unable or unwilling to continue, or 10 minutes is up.
--[x] Let Yuma hold your phone for timekeeping.
-[x] Cleanse soul gems between rounds, or if soul gem corruption gets too high (match will be temporarily halted in the latter case).
-[x] Let Yuma heal everyone between rounds.
-[x] Start with only basic weapons.
[x] Sabrina:
-[x] Follow the rules.
-[x] Expand on what's allowed after each round is complete (or whenever Kyouko pushes the game a step higher)
--[x] First, basic weapons.
--[x] Second, allow basic magical effects (normal griefbending, chainspears, barriers, etc).
--[x] Third, all-out, including witch-effect griefbending.
---[x] If you want me to go all out, well... {Gauntlet} Yeah, it pings the witch senses something fierce, but I can do some crazy shhh...stuff with it. So if you're up for a challenge....
---[x] Oh, just one moment.
----[x] Pull out Aurora. Make some instruments for a battle theme.

opps forgot to vote
 
Kinematics said:
While I can see the idea of changing the scaling to be based on grief limitations, I think this goes a bit overboard. Remember, no killing. Plus, starting with a few basketballs' worth is a bit over the top as well; we'd have to pull out of Aurora to get that, rather than just use what we have in the bag.
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That's fair, my baseline was probably overdoing it, and for obvious reasons we're not going to go full witch emulation mode in a spar. In any case, of the major choices, yours is best, so:
[X] Kinematics
 
Fundamentally, all the differences between mine and Mura's votes derive from whether to focus on a single power level for the fight (though that power level is somewhat dynamic), or whether to start small and escalate throughout. Several aspects of my proposal could be (and probably should be) changed, but they would all be based around that theme of escalation.

To a certain extent, Mura's has the possibility of working in a similar way, since it explicitly says to give Kyouko a challenge. If Kyouko keeps pushing harder, then giving her a challenge naturally results in the same thing. The only difference is what the top-end limit is — that is, whether to go all the way to the witch-grief manipulation or not.
 
One question about @Kinematics vote. With the music being such an "indented" part of it, does that mean the music is reserved for the final round, or all throughout the fights like the other vote implies?
 
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Kinematics said:
Fundamentally, all the differences between mine and Mura's votes derive from whether to focus on a single power level for the fight (though that power level is somewhat dynamic), or whether to start small and escalate throughout. Several aspects of my proposal could be (and probably should be) changed, but they would all be based around that theme of escalation.

To a certain extent, Mura's has the possibility of working in a similar way, since it explicitly says to give Kyouko a challenge. If Kyouko keeps pushing harder, then giving her a challenge naturally results in the same thing. The only difference is what the top-end limit is — that is, whether to go all the way to the witch-grief manipulation or not.
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I trust firn on writing Sabrina giving a challenge to Kyoko, regardless of escalation. There's no need for word that, honestly.
 
While the progressive fight does sound interesting, we can probably just reach the second one before we run out of time, or we risk inflicting horrendous collateral damage. And no, we do not really have that much time, since we'll be cleansing and healing between rounds.

And let's not forget: this is just a spar. That we're cramming in our tight schedule before we fly back into Mitakihara. Not a a full-blown title-shot for Top Bitch of Kasamino.
 
Really, since the net effect is almost identical, the only thing I don't like about Muramasa's vote is the music- even if it doesn't impede us at all, it comes off as condescending, especially if it keeps playing while we're in a tight spot - "yeah, you stabbed me, and the violins didn't skip a note" or such.
 
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Kinematics said:
Fundamentally, all the differences between mine and Mura's votes derive from whether to focus on a single power level for the fight (though that power level is somewhat dynamic), or whether to start small and escalate throughout. Several aspects of my proposal could be (and probably should be) changed, but they would all be based around that theme of escalation.

To a certain extent, Mura's has the possibility of working in a similar way, since it explicitly says to give Kyouko a challenge. If Kyouko keeps pushing harder, then giving her a challenge naturally results in the same thing. The only difference is what the top-end limit is — that is, whether to go all the way to the witch-grief manipulation or not.
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I don't think we'll need witch-grief manipulation. We didn't have it in Sendai, after all. While Kyouko is a strong fighter we kinda stomp her into the dust with just normal grief; she can't fly after all and I don't see how she would get into the MOF. Hell, just the wings and a few dozen shield plates would do the job.

Therefore, we should probably not use witch-grief because it freaks people out and she's just starting to warm up to us. If we needed it to win then yeah, but we don't.

We should totally cut the music for the final srs business round though.
 
EtchedSteel said:
I trust firn on writing Sabrina giving a challenge to Kyoko, regardless of escalation. There's no need for word that, honestly.
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I'll give it some more thought. There are certainly weaknesses in my proposal, and I'll almost certainly revise it regardless.

I'm not really against Mura's proposal, however I do think that putting the music on early is maybe not the best approach. Kyouko seems very much in the mood to want to pound on Sabrina for a bit, and it just doesn't feel right to have music playing during the early parts of it.

The later parts of the fight, though, I'm more hoping to see the Excited!Kyouko, able to cut loose and burn through her frustrations. She's had a lot of stress built up, and she simply can't afford to waste grief seeds with Yuma around. Plus annoyance about Sabrina and worry about Mami... I kinda want to push things into Summer Blockbuster Special Effects Movie territory, as far as going all out goes, to let the adrenaline high take her past all that.

Jackercracks said:
I don't think we'll need witch-grief manipulation. We didn't have it in Sendai, after all. While Kyouko is a strong fighter we kinda stomp her into the dust with just normal grief; she can't fly after all and I don't see how she would get into the MOF. Hell, just the wings and a few dozen shield plates would do the job.
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Aside from the aforementioned Special Effects mode, the MOF isn't a tool for one-on-one combat; it's a tool for fighting a war. Cheezing things up with 'untouchable' tactics is also unpleasant. We are using the "play by the rules" approach, here.
 
Kinematics said:
Aside from the aforementioned Special Effects mode, the MOF isn't a tool for one-on-one combat; it's a tool for fighting a war. Cheezing things up with 'untouchable' tactics is also unpleasant. We are using the "play by the rules" approach, here.
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I wasn't seriously suggesting the MOF, that thing is just no fun at all. I'm kinda tempted by the summer blockbuster special effects though.

I'm torn here man, on the one hand Witch stuff makes magical girls twitchy as all hell and I want Kyouko on side. On the other hand, laser beams, explosions and all that good stuff. I am itching for an excuse to go all final boss battle on someone.

Could you put in a bit warning koko that we're about to start pulling out witch stuff just before we do?
 
Cannongerbil said:
Neither Mami nor Kyouko knew anything about how important the Soul gem is up until Madoka did her intervention on the bridge, and Homura only knew about it's importance because of the timeloops. I'm going to have to question your claim about how "everyone knows" how important the soul gem is.
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They know that it's important to keep it from going dark. It's important enough that meguca are willing to fight each other for territory and allow familiars to kill people in order to grow into witches. They might not know that it is literally the meguca's soul, but they do know that it's critically important and that they would be in serious trouble (probably death) if it gets corrupted or damaged.

Honestly, I think that the main shock in PMMM was that Sayaka's body suddenly went limp without warning, rather than the "revelation" that a soul gem is a soul in a gem.
 
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[x]Muramasa

As for music...



@boonerunner
Kyouko and Madoka's reactions say otherwise. Yes, Kyouko was less shocked and more angry once Kyubey explained but she's consistently shown as pretty resilient about these things. And that's not getting into it being a large part of Sayaka's witching out.
 
Ugolino said:
Considering the way she found out, the level of injuries she regularly went through, and the cultural complex about it...
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Yeah, what the hell is up with that cultural thing? I've never understood why they cared so much. I'm pretty sure I would give remarkably few shits if my soul happened to coalesce into a ring. I'd be amazed at souls existing sure, but so long as the thing sticks around I don't see why it matters whether I keep in my heart or on my hat.

Is it like a primary teaching of shinto that if your soul gets put into a hat then suddenly you are doomed or something?
 
Jackercracks said:
While Kyouko is a strong fighter we kinda stomp her into the dust with just normal grief
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I think you're underestimating bestgirl, here. Keep in mind she sparred with Mami for some time before breaking off; she should be all too familiar with the "flood the battlefield with traps and weapons" approach. She has been doing this for years. She's not gonna be a pushover if we aren't gem yanking.
 
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Jackercracks said:
Yeah, what the hell is up with that cultural thing? I've never understood why they cared so much. I'm pretty sure I would give remarkably few shits if my soul happened to coalesce into a ring. I'd be amazed at souls existing sure, but so long as the thing sticks around I don't see why it matters whether I keep in my heart or on my hat.

Is it like a primary teaching of shinto that if your soul gets put into a hat then suddenly you are doomed or something?
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Body-soul separation, right?

It'd be somewhat unnerving since losing it would be a serious potential issue. One careless mistake or pickpocket and there suddenly aren't enough words for how much trouble you're in.
 
Jackercracks said:
Yeah, what the hell is up with that cultural thing? I've never understood why they cared so much. I'm pretty sure I would give remarkably few shits if my soul happened to coalesce into a ring. I'd be amazed at souls existing sure, but so long as the thing sticks around I don't see why it matters whether I keep in my heart or on my hat.

Is it like a primary teaching of shinto that if your soul gets put into a hat then suddenly you are doomed or something?
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Is according to their belief. Body and Soul are one and the same, and the two of them in harmony are what makes us human.

Anything that damages the body also damages the soul.

This is a very different view compared to, say, Christians. Where they believe the body is just a vessel of the soul.
 
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Jackercracks said:
Yeah, what the hell is up with that cultural thing?
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In western popular thought, the soul animates and controls the body, but is not really part of it. Like the body is a meatsack the soul is driving. "You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body."

Eastern popular thought is different on the topic. They see soul and body as a unified whole, and something that separates body and soul as a form of mutilation. Also, eastern culture loathes cripples (not that western thought is much, if any, better).
 
Aranfan said:
In western popular thought, the soul animates and controls the body, but is not really part of it. Like the body is a meatsack the soul is driving. "You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body."

Eastern popular thought is different on the topic. They see soul and body as a unified whole, and something that separates body and soul as a form of mutilation. Also, eastern culture loathes cripples (not that western thought is much, if any, better).
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The whole soul gem thing would seem to validate the western worldview for that, then, since nobody can tell the difference between an onboard soul and one piloting the body remotely.
 
EtchedSteel said:
Is according to their belief. Body and Soul are one and the same, and the two of them in harmony are what makes us human.

Anything that damages the body also damages the soul.

This is a very different view compared to, say, Christians. Where they believe the body is just a vessel of the soul.
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Which also dovetails nicely into why Kyoko and Homura sort of shrug it off- they have the cultural background to be able to deal with it better than Sayaka and the others.

(Homura went to Catholic school before her heart condition started acting up)

Torgamous said:
The whole soul gem thing would seem to validate the western worldview for that, then, since nobody can tell the difference between an onboard soul and one piloting the body remotely.
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Well, sorta. The Soul is an actual part of the brain in PMMM, the Incubators just figured out how to separate it from the rest.
 
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