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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Cannongerbil said:
I'm pretty damned certain that the fourth dimension in question here is the fourth spatial dimension, not the time axis. I'm not even sure how the time axis got into this dicussion.
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Because the time axis is the most easily understood 4th dimension, and provides a means of understanding how a 4th spatial dimension could work. Having multiple types of analogies helps with wrapping your head around unusual concepts like that.
SaltyWaffles said:
And Oriko does have a point about things one should/should not discuss over telepathy, which is probably why she usually sounds more guarded, prissy, and annoyed over telepathy.
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My initial proposal actually asked about which way we wanted to handle that (telepathy or a personal visit), but the revised versions dropped that, so...


Just catching up. Ugo's looks pretty good at the moment.
[x] Ugolino
 
About the "lie thing"

I would define lying to be intentionally saying or giving a linguistic statement (said or written) you know is false with the purpose of deception.

Furthermore, I would define deception being attempting to get someone to believe something you know is not true.

Under these definitions, lying is a subset of deception. So Kyubey might not lie, but he most certainly does deceive. There are more ways to decieve than just lying.
 
boonerunner said:
There's no rush to stockpile seeds, but why not start now? If we do intend to start a grief seed trade then this is the perfect place to start. I'm not picky about the rate; it can be 3:2 or 4:3 or even 10:9, but as long as there is some sort of trade going on, Kyouko should be okay with it and it opens the door for what could be the start of a global system.

Note that if we tell her not to give the seeds to Kyuubey, we need to tell her about the Lichbomb at least.
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No, we don't. We just need to tell her that she can reuse them indefinitely with our help.

I think any stockpiling is premature. If, as and when we have a way to reverse witching, we should consider means to acquire lots of additional seeds; right now, though, we have no indication that our powers will enable us to perform this unprecedented feat. The value of additional grief seeds to us is thus practically nil at this point - seeds that'd provide a safety net for other megucas are just paperweights to us. If, for instance, we start aggressively stockpiling seeds and then pop our clogs before finding a way to reverse witching (which ain't exactly an inconceivable outcome), we've screwed over everyone else to no gain.
 
I'm fine with Ugolino's vote except that I prefer to trade for grief seeds instead of offering charity. It's less likely to offend her and allows us to work towards more trade agreements in the future.

[x]No, she didn't.
[x]Explain how Mami's...not doing well right now. I told her I'd be here, but sticking my nose in other people's business is completely my idea.
-[x]She gets morose and withdrawn if I so much as mention you, and she didn't take the news about Kyubey well. The little rat was using her.
[x]Cleansing's still a standing, unconditional offer, by the way.
-[x]We're also willing to trade full grief seeds for empty grief seeds at a rate of 3:2. Any number of seeds is fine, we'll just keep track of how many there are and keep every third seed.
[x]Lunch. Don't spoil their appetite. Ask how they're doing.
[x]We stopped Oriko. She and Kirika are fine, but they're under house arrest for now.
[x] Inform her about the end of the Sendai conflict.
[x]Just in case you didn't know already...a Walpurgisnacht's going to hit Mitakihara in about three weeks. I'm not here to try and recruit you for it-especially because you have Yuma to look after-but since it might still cause a lot of damage, I thought you should know.
 
FlatlineAskari said:
No, we don't. We just need to tell her that she can reuse them indefinitely with our help.

I think any stockpiling is premature. If, as and when we have a way to reverse witching, we should consider means to acquire lots of additional seeds; right now, though, we have no indication that our powers will enable us to perform this unprecedented feat. The value of additional grief seeds to us is thus practically nil at this point - seeds that'd provide a safety net for other megucas are just paperweights to us. If we start aggressively stockpiling seeds and then pop our clogs before finding a way to reverse witching (which ain't exactly an inconceivable outcome), we've screwed over everyone else to no gain.
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You raise a fair point, but we do know (at the very least), that each grief seed contains a soul inside it which is quiescent after the grief has been removed from the seed. Also, evidence from Rebellion (i.e. Charlotte->Nagisa) suggests that it is possible to transform witches back into meguca. We do not know if it's possible for us to do this with our present resources or if it will require a specialized wish (or Goddess intervention). But transforming grief seeds into meguca is one of our essential goals, so I don't see anything wrong with stockpiling grief seeds for that purpose even before we know how to do it.

And it does not count as screwing over people since grief seeds have already been established as a type of currency and we're trading for them under honest and fair conditions.
 
I really don't think starting a trade agreement is necessary with Kyoko- her disbelief of our charitable intentions will fade with time, and we don't need a stockpile right now. She'll think it's naive and kind of shifty at first, but eventually it's shown that Kyoko respects honest, good people, and I think just 1:1 will work out better in the long run. We're already going to be getting seeds from Sendai, anyway.
 
boonerunner said:
You raise a fair point, but we do know (at the very least), that each grief seed contains a soul inside it which is quiescent after the grief has been removed from the seed. Also, evidence from Rebellion (i.e. Charlotte->Nagisa) suggests that it is possible to transform witches back into meguca. We do not know if it's possible for us to do this with our present resources or if it will require a specialized wish (or Goddess intervention). But transforming grief seeds into meguca is one of our essential goals, so I don't see anything wrong with stockpiling grief seeds for that purpose even before we know how to do it.

And it does not count as screwing over people since grief seeds have already been established as a type of currency and we're trading for them under honest and fair conditions.
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With respect, I don't think you're thinking this through.
If we cleanse seeds in the wild, wherever possible - ideally fully cleanse them, with appropriate warnings - they're not being given to QB in the near future, and if we stay alive, possibly ever. They remain in circulation; their marginal value drops; megucas are less likely to be assholes to each other or the general public; and, not least, we're prolonging lots of lives, quite possibly by centuries. The knock-on effects are good, and if we later stumble across a mechanism for unwitching, our options are all still open.

Building a stockpile without either providing an alternative means for other megucas to manage their grief (the other prerequisite for mass unwitching) or any means to unwitch in the first place may not necessarily be bad practice in the fair-play sense, but economically and ecologically, we're hurting people for no reason.

EDIT: Hell, if nothing else, after a decade of grief seed post-scarcity, it'll be a lot easier to get people to part with the things. :V
 
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theauthor said:
Sorry i'm lost it, can i have a tally?
Also we are definitely heroic mastermind.
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Vote tally:
##### 3.21
[x] Gadjo
No. of votes: 1
EtchedSteel

[X] Nope. Ask around, I've been sticking my nose in everyone's business.
[X] Speaking of, I ended that war I mentioned the other day.
No. of votes: 2
Torgamous, Ethereal Vitali

[X] Ugolino
No. of votes: 5
aeqnai, Gadjo, Sereg, Loops, universalperson

[x]No, she didn't.
[x]Explain how Mami's...not doing well right now. I told her I'd be here, but sticking my nose in other people's business is completely my idea.
-[x]She gets morose and withdrawn if I so much as mention you, and she didn't take the news about Kyubey well. The little rat was using her.[/color]
[x]Cleansing's still a standing, unconditional offer, by the way. We'd like to do it for filled grief seeds as well, since otherwise they'd be wasted. If she asks why, just say that it doesn't cost us anything to help.
[x]Lunch. Don't spoil their appetite. Ask how they're doing.
[x]We stopped Oriko. She and Kirika are fine, but they're under house arrest for now.
[x] Inform her about the end of the Sendai conflict.
[x]Just in case you didn't know already...a Walpurgisnacht's going to hit Mitakihara in about three weeks. I'm not here to try and recruit you for it-especially because you have Yuma to look after-but since it might still cause a lot of damage, I thought you should know.
No. of votes: 3
Ugolino, Kinematics, Tiroth

[x] Best Blueberry.
No. of votes: 1
Dirtnap

[x]No, she didn't.
[x]Explain how Mami's...not doing well right now. I told her I'd be here, but sticking my nose in other people's business is completely my idea.
-[x]She gets morose and withdrawn if I so much as mention you, and she didn't take the news about Kyubey well. The little rat was using her.
[x]Cleansing's still a standing, unconditional offer, by the way.
-[x]We're also willing to trade full grief seeds for empty grief seeds at a rate of 3:2. Any number of seeds is fine, we'll just keep track of how many there are and keep every third seed.
[x]Lunch. Don't spoil their appetite. Ask how they're doing.
[x]We stopped Oriko. She and Kirika are fine, but they're under house arrest for now.
[x] Inform her about the end of the Sendai conflict.
[x]Just in case you didn't know already...a Walpurgisnacht's going to hit Mitakihara in about three weeks. I'm not here to try and recruit you for it-especially because you have Yuma to look after-but since it might still cause a lot of damage, I thought you should know.[/b]
No. of votes: 1
boonerunner

[x] Ugo-kun
No. of votes: 1
AuraTwilight
 
[x]No, she didn't.
[x]Explain how Mami's...not doing well right now. I told her I'd be here, but sticking my nose in other people's business is completely my idea.
-[x]She gets morose and withdrawn if I so much as mention you, and she didn't take the news about Kyubey well. The little rat was using her.
[x]Cleansing's still a standing, unconditional offer, by the way.
-[x]We're also willing to trade full grief seeds for empty grief seeds at a rate of 3:2. Any number of seeds is fine, we'll just keep track of how many there are and keep every third seed.
[x]Lunch. Don't spoil their appetite. Ask how they're doing.
[x]We stopped Oriko. She and Kirika are fine, but they're under house arrest for now.
[x] Inform her about the end of the Sendai conflict.
[x]Just in case you didn't know already...a Walpurgisnacht's going to hit Mitakihara in about three weeks. I'm not here to try and recruit you for it-especially because you have Yuma to look after-but since it might still cause a lot of damage, I thought you should know.
That works. Of course we would do it for free, but Kyouko seems wary to accept free lunches
 
[x]No, she didn't.
[x]Explain how Mami's...not doing well right now. I told her I'd be here, but sticking my nose in other people's business is completely my idea.
-[x]She gets morose and withdrawn if I so much as mention you, and she didn't take the news about Kyubey well. The little rat was using her.
[x]Cleansing's still a standing, unconditional offer, by the way.
-[x]We're also willing to trade full grief seeds for empty grief seeds at a rate of 3:2. Any number of seeds is fine, we'll just keep track of how many there are and keep every third seed.
[x]Lunch. Don't spoil their appetite. Ask how they're doing.
[x]We stopped Oriko. She and Kirika are fine, but they're under house arrest for now.
[x] Inform her about the end of the Sendai conflict.
[x]Just in case you didn't know already...a Walpurgisnacht's going to hit Mitakihara in about three weeks. I'm not here to try and recruit you for it-especially because you have Yuma to look after-but since it might still cause a lot of damage, I thought you should know.


aka plan Boon
 
Do you guys think that

-[]She gets morose and withdrawn if I so much as mention you, and she didn't take the news about Kyubey well. The little rat was using her.

might be a bit too much to drop on Kyouko at once?
 
Ugolino said:
Do you guys think that

-[]She gets morose and withdrawn if I so much as mention you, and she didn't take the news about Kyubey well. The little rat was using her.

might be a bit too much to drop on Kyouko at once?
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I can see the argument against it. I think It'd be fine but I'm not particularly attached to the line. If you want to remove it, it's fine with me.
 
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