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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Stupid magic. How dare it take actual skill and practice to master...

Our ojou is just ridiculously good at this stuff. That's gotta be it. She's just some crazy anomaly of badassery and grace. :p
 
Krecart said:
We should finally get around to asking if either of them can sense magic like we do.
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Yeah, but without the proper terminology and ability to compare with common frames of reference, it's really hard to make a sensible answer. I mean, just look at Mami trying to show up how to land. It's incredibly vague and difficult to describe.

I suppose we could ask whether they can sense the traceries of magic at all, but beyond that I don't think we can get a useful answer out of this until we build up an entire -ology for magic.
 
Kinematics said:
Yeah, but without the proper terminology and ability to compare with common frames of reference, it's really hard to make a sensible answer. I mean, just look at Mami trying to show up how to land. It's incredibly vague and difficult to describe.

I suppose we could ask whether they can sense the traceries of magic at all, but beyond that I don't think we can get a useful answer out of this until we build up an entire -ology for magic.
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We use the same terminology Firn used to describe it to us in the updates. It's better than not asking at all.
 
...added some of the things mentioned here to my vote, and some details on Familiar dissection.
 
I think Mami underestimates just how much our group's magic can work together.

Sabrina provides the superstructure, armor, and so forth,
Mami provides the upholstery and armory (Tiro Finale frontal cannon mandatory),
and Homura provides the time-stop for situation analysis and emergency relocation.

The Grief Carrier is the answer to all problems that are not to be solved with diplomacy. Scale up and down as necessary.
 
Muramasa said:
Learning to control our magic is a thing. And ideal if we want any hope of being able to use enchantment magic.
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Um. While this:
Firnagzen said:
You try to pay attention to how she land, how the faintest strobe of magic diffuses the momentum away, but you don't feel confident of replicating it.
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Suggests that our skill with magic should be to blame for our inability to roof-hop without damage when we actually try we get:
Firnagzen said:
You try, you honestly do, but you just can't get the timing nor the motion quite right, and you wince at every sharp crack that sounds under your feet as you land and push off.
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Which says to me the problem isn't in Sabrina's magic skill but in her timing and execution of the magic rather then the magic itself. There isn't any mention, as far as I can see, of her actually struggling to replicate the momentum diffusing magic.
 
Baroque said:
I think Mami underestimates just how much our group's magic can work together.

Sabrina provides the superstructure, armor, and so forth,
Mami provides the upholstery and armory (Tiro Finale frontal cannon mandatory),
and Homura provides the time-stop for situation analysis and emergency relocation.

The Grief Carrier is the answer to all problems that are not to be solved with diplomacy. Scale up and down as necessary.
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Actually...that's really ingenious. It solves are range issues by outsourcing that to Mami, leaving us to focus on making it impenetrable and Sufficiently Eldritch. Homura serves as our emergency bailout system when everything goes to hell.
 
Firnagzen said:
... yes, exactly?
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I'm trying to justify our being terrible at magic (yes, I know we have zero experience, hush) by noting that our primary point of reference is amazingly skilled. Ego salvaging.

"There's no way we could suck at this. Obviously, Mami is just way too good." :V

Dirtnap said:
Rebellion Mumi. Firn Really likes Rebellion mumi.
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Why do people keep talking about the two like they're massively different?
 
UberJJK said:
Which says to me the problem isn't in Sabrina's magic skill but in her timing and execution of the magic rather then the magic itself. There isn't any mention, as far as I can see, of her actually struggling to replicate the momentum diffusing magic.
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Sounds more like trying to ride a bike for the first time. You can technically know what to do (steer, pedal, stay upright), but coordinating it all at the same time can be quite awkward until you're used to it. And timing and execution is explicitly what skill is about.
 
Krecart said:
I'm trying to justify our being terrible at magic (yes, I know we have zero experience, hush) by noting that our primary point of reference is amazingly skilled. Ego salvaging.

"There's no way we could suck at this. Obviously, Mami is just way too good." :V


Why do people keep talking about the two like they're massively different?
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One was badass and could take on 'LOL TIMESTAHP' Homura. One froze and got ded'd.

Preeeetty big difference.
 
Firnagzen said:
You try to pay attention to how she land, how the faintest strobe of magic diffuses the momentum away, but you don't feel confident of replicating it.
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Actually thinking about this a little more. I wonder if Sabrina's doubts as to her ability in replicating this is because it's beyond her magical ability or because people keep saying we're terrible at magic and that is effecting her mental process into thinking that she is worse at magic then she actually is.

Kinematics said:
Sounds more like trying to ride a bike for the first time. You can technically know what to do (steer, pedal, stay upright), but coordinating it all at the same time can be quite awkward until you're used to it. And timing and execution is explicitly what skill is about.
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I think you may have missed my point. People keep saying we're terrible at magic and that we need to improve our ability with magic and that roofhopping is a good way to do this.

My point is that from what I can tell from the update Sabrina doesn't have any problems with the actual performing magic part of roofhopping but rather the precise timing of when to use that magic.

Think of it like trying to rub your belly and pat your head at the same time. Sabrina can rub her belly (Jump from rooftop to rooftop) and she can pat her head (use magic to cancel momentum) but she is struggling with doing both at the same time (roofhopping without damage).

Practice will help her improve doing both at the same time but it isn't going to help improve her ability to pat her head since she can already do that.
 
Higure said:
[X] "1 sec...I need to look at something."
[X] Stop...there's more to do here.
-[X] Examine the interaction of the magic and grief. We've always used them seperately...how is the Witch intertwining them?
--[X] Ask Mami and Homura what they make of it....what do the magical aspects look like to them?
-[X] Try replicating the barrier's properties on a very small scale...use it as a model to work from, until you can get it right.
[X] Once we're inside...
-[X] Try altering the nature of elements of the Barrier, like we do with our own Witch-Grief.
-[X] Grab a familiar. Lock it in a grief cage to keep it from fighting back, but don't directly alter it.
--[X] Have Homura Time Stop if things are looking dangerous.
--[X] Begin dissection. Start by analyzing its general structure...
---[X] Does this thing have a core? A soul fragment, or something like it, that controls the rest?
---[X] Is this pure Grief, or is their Magic involved, too?
---[X] Try to find whatever gives it intelligence. Whether that's a core, or something else.
-----[X] See if you can figure out how it's behavior is dictated...if you can make sense of it, try modifying its programming so that it will obey and/or help us, rather than the Witch.
--[X] If you have any luck with this, try making one of your own...use this one as a template, but use your own Grief and/or Magic. Make sure it's loyal to us and obedient.
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Our own grief control has always been using magic. So this is kind of silly. e: Like, we've always seen tendrils of magic controlling our grief.
 
jacobplm said:
One was badass and could take on 'LOL TIMESTAHP' Homura. One froze and got ded'd.

Preeeetty big difference.
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Right, but that doesn't cover much more than state of mind. Mami was in a really bad head space in the show. I don't see how it makes her less badass or skilled as opposed to just terminally inattentive.
 
Krecart said:
Why do people keep talking about the two like they're massively different?
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Because they are? Rebellion Mami demonstrates several skills that just plain aren't demonstrated by her during the series proper, and is just more skilled and more powerful in general. If she had those same skills in the series, she would've been able to take care of Walpurgis during timeline 2, and not, you know, unceremoniously killed off.
 
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Cannongerbil said:
Because they are? Rebellion Mami demonstrates several skills that just plain aren't demonstrated by her during the series proper, and is just more skilled and more powerful in general. If she had those same skills in the series, she would've been able to take care of Walpurgis during timeline 2, and not, you know, unceremoniously killed off.
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Besides the ribbon clone, I don't remember her doing anything she couldn't have before.

The rifle ring is just a modification of the giant wall of rifles she used in episode 1 and she'd already demonstrated the ability to make different sized armaments. I guess the partially materialized ribbon is new, but I don't see when that would've come up before.

Can't say about Wally since we never actually see anybody but Homura fight it.
 
Krecart said:
Besides the ribbon clone, I don't remember her doing anything she couldn't have before.

The rifle ring is just a modification of the giant wall of rifles she used in episode 1 and she'd already demonstrated the ability to make different sized armaments. I guess the partially materialized ribbon is new, but I don't see when that would've come up before.

Can't say about Wally since we never actually see anybody but Homura fight it.
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Ribbon clone aside, which already represents a significant boost in power as it is, there's also the pistol and shotgun mods(very useful when fighting Getrud's familiars, yet she never brings it out), her Tiro Finale as train cannon (that thing destroyed five skyscraper sized enemies, would've been great against Charlotte, Walpurgis, and Gerturd, but she stuck to the giant musket cannon), her trapeze act(admittedly minor, but eh), plus the extra month she has to train with her abilities.

It's not just her mindset that's changed, though that plays a part, she's just plain stronger in rebellion than she is in the original series.
 
Cannongerbil said:
Ribbon clone aside, which already represents a significant boost in power as it is, there's also the pistol and shotgun mods(very useful when fighting Getrud's familiars, yet she never brings it out), her Tiro Finale as train cannon (that thing destroyed five skyscraper sized enemies, would've been great against Charlotte, Walpurgis, and Gerturd, but she stuck to the giant musket cannon), her trapeze act(admittedly minor, but eh), plus the extra month she has to train with her abilities.

It's not just her mindset that's changed, though that plays a part, she's just plain stronger in rebellion than she is in the original series.
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Cannongerbil said:
there's also the pistol and shotgun mods(very useful when fighting Getrud's familiars, yet she never brings it out)
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She seemed to be showing off and clearly didn't need to make anything other than rifles for the familiars. Also, she did display the ability to make different sized guns in that fight. Close-range gun fight with Homura just required different armaments.
Cannongerbil said:
her Tiro Finale as train cannon (that thing destroyed five skyscraper sized enemies, would've been great against Charlotte,
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Charlotte was a doll -until she suddenly wasn't- for that fight, why would she make something as huge as the train cannon?
Cannongerbil said:
would've been great against Charlotte, Walpurgis, and Gerturd, but she stuck to the giant musket cannon),
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We don't actually know what she used against Wally since we never see anybody other than Homura (or Madoka at the end) actually fighting that thing.

It just seems weird that she's considered to be so much more powerful and badass after a month's time when she's been at this for 2 years already. I always figured it was a lethal combo of depression and being surprised to death that got her killed before.
 
Krecart said:
It just seems weird that she's considered to be so much more powerful and badass after a month's time when she's been at this for 2 years already. I always figured it was a lethal combo of depression and being surprised to death that got her killed before.
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Dude, have you actually seen what Mami does in Rebellion?
 
You know we could always just ask this Mami if she can do all that stuff.
Just go witch hunting with her and ask her to really show off.
Since we can clean her gem afterwards she doesn't have to hold back at all.
Also going by her reaction times and moves she pulled against Moe and Sakura, I'd say her fighting and reflexes are easily on par with her performance against Homura in Rebellion.
 
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