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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Being human is hard. In retrospect, I can't really blame the Incubators for not understanding.
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Ooooh no. Let's not start feeling sorry for Kyubey. Out of all the people we've felt bad for mistreating, I don't think Kyubey should be one of them. He is essentially an intergalactic oil baron, except instead of oil he harvests the souls and suffering of little girls. He's evil, pure and simple.

Also, yeah, if Sendai can't calm her down, we'll have to intervene; if we leave her like this in their care, she'll almost certainly witch out.
 
Gadjo said:
Ooooh no. Let's not start feeling sorry for Kyubey. Out of all the people we've felt bad for mistreating, I don't think Kyubey should be one of them. He is essentially an intergalactic oil baron, except instead of oil he harvests the souls and suffering of little girls. He's evil, pure and simple.

Also, yeah, if Sendai can't calm her down, we'll have to intervene; if we leave her like this in their care, she'll almost certainly witch out.
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I'm not sorry for him at all. I think I made my feelings clear in my vote post. But I understand the "I don't understand.".
 
He's not evil by virtue that he doesn't have proper moral agency by way of genuine ignorance and psychological retardation by way of lack of emotion.

But his actions are unforgivable and he is not deserving of sympathy. He's the truest enemy of mankind.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
He's ok with driving humans to extinction, at the very least. That makes him an enemy of my species, and by extension, myself. Regardless of morality.
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Gadjo said:
Eh, nothing to flame war over. Still, we both agree he's not to be trusted and that he can go suck a lemon, yes? If so, we haven't really got much to disagree about.
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Yeah, these are all things that get my murderboner going. Nuke them from orbit, then nuke them again.
 
So... since we're all murder-boner about Coobs can we vote [] FLESH OF FALLEN ANGELS next time we see him?

I say this having now read about 3/4 of MGNQ. Context only made the button shinier.
 
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-[x] SynchronizedWritersBlock
Damn you, Kyuubey.Damn you to subspace and below. Agree fully, also on the extrasperation towards our own species part, WritersBlock.Humanity is gawdawful, but its the only one we got.
Muramasa is right, too. Akikos actions were EVIL in capital letters.Perhaps understandable, but still ....
 
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It's been said before but Kyubey isn't evil. If coobs is as utilitarian as he seems what he's doing would seem perfectly reasonable, better that a few suffer/die than have the whole universe slowly fade away.

I really want to emphasize this. His actions are horrifying to us but he can't even begin to understand why.
 
[x] SynchronizedWritersBlock

BEEP BOOP how do I into emotions BOOP
cmwatford said:
It's been said before but Kyubey isn't evil. If coobs is as utilitarian as he seems what he's doing would seem perfectly reasonable, better that a few suffer/die than have the whole universe slowly fade away.

I really want to emphasize this. His actions are horrifying to us but he can't even begin to understand why.
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Do bear in mind that evil is subjective. What he is doing is ultimately better for his species and the galaxy at large, so to him and his civilization what he is doing probably seems perfectly justified, but from our perspective he's willing to cause suffering to millions of people in order to benefit himself, so from our point of view he appears as an evil existence. It doesn't help that the Incubator civilization is physically incapable of empathizing with other civilizations.
 
Really, I think everyone's selling Kyuubey short. Consider:
  • The time it took for life to evolve on earth, from dust cloud to internet, is 5 billion years.
  • The universe is only 14 billion years old, but is expected to have a complete lifespan that gets into the trillions. Will just use 1 trillion as a convenient conservative number.
  • If you're working on expanding the lifespan of the universe, if you're not working in units of billions of years (considering the 1 trillion year starting mark), you might as well just pack up and go home. Technically it's doable when working in units of millions of years, but it's a lot more of a hassle, and hardly seems worthwhile. (Though the Incubators might very well still consider it a net gain, and thus workable.)
  • Kyuubey has a quota to meet for the entirety of Earth's contribution to the project, which was accomplished by Madoka's witching in a recent time loop (in conjunction with all other contributions in the course of history).
  • How much is sufficient to be a quota? Let's call it one tenth of one percent: 0.1%. A tiny, trivial, almost insignificant amount. Increase the universe's lifespan that much to fulfill your species' quota.
  • That's 1 billion years.
  • There are estimated to be between 100 billion and 200 billion (and possibly upwards of 500 billion) galaxies in the universe.
  • Stars are regularly being born throughout the universe. The Milky Way averages about 3 stars per year, so anywhere from 500 billion to 1.5 trillion stars could be born per year, throughout the universe.
  • The rate at which life is likely to evolve is subject to a huge number of variables (and I can't currently find my source for a lot of them).
  • Using a ludicrously conservative estimate, let's say that, on average, life can evolve to human level once per billion years per galaxy.
  • Since stars are being born all the time, this is a process that will continue indefinitely.
  • Now, consider applying that to the entire universe, and delaying the heat death of the universe to give additional civilizations time to develop. You just added 1 billion years to the lifespan of the universe, which means that every galaxy out there gets another increment of potential intelligent life. That is: 100 to 500 billion civilizations.
  • The cost of that is whatever quota amount Kyuubey needs to collect per planet. It may even cost the planet itself.
  • If you were given the choice of saving the lives of 100 billion people (14 times as many as the entire current planetary population) at the cost of killing only a single person, would you? What about 200 billion lives? 500 billion? Is the entire potential of your entire future civilization, before going extinct, enough to counteract tens to hundreds of billions of other civilizations getting a chance to exist at all?
  • Even if we drop to the millions units: Suppose a planet's quota is 1 million years added to the lifetime of the universe. We expect that there are several hundred billion civilizations in existence, though the Incubators may not be able to reach them all, and not all may be suitable for their purposes. You'd need 1000 such civilizations to increase the universe's lifespan by one civilization increment, meaning you're trading 1000 civilizations (at worst; the civilizations only have to fill the quota, not be destroyed) to gain several hundred billion. It's still a great deal.
Honestly, humans get so rattled whenever we discuss these things. It just isn't worth the effort to inform them.

Caveat: There are plenty of handwaved numbers in the above hypothetical, particularly in regards to the birth and death of galaxies over trillions of years.
 
All a fine analysis.

It took Madoka one month on her own part and maybe a hundred on Homura's to rewrite the universe according to her whims. It took Homura one human lifetime.


Given that, I think they're betting on the wrong horse when it comes to manipulating the lifespan of our universe by using energy gathered from negative emotions. Granted, plenty of handwavium there, but not fully investigating the capabilities of magic seems a dire failure on their part.
 
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