Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] Highlanders
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] Highlanders
- Location
- Leeds
People we were just worrying about martial being near the cap. Why are we deliberately lowering stability?
Don't be tempted by the True city. It is a false prophet.
Don't be tempted by the True city. It is a false prophet.
[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] Highlanders
[X] [Value] Thunder Speakers
We must do the dye production if we choose to keep the trait. I'd much prefer to get rid of the stability-risking Centre of Trade.
Voting for both Thunder Speakers and Highlanders since they seem the most likely to have a compatible and useful stability-granting trait.
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] Highlanders
[X] [Value] Thunder Speakers
We must do the dye production if we choose to keep the trait. I'd much prefer to get rid of the stability-risking Centre of Trade.
Voting for both Thunder Speakers and Highlanders since they seem the most likely to have a compatible and useful stability-granting trait.
It just halved in value. It used to make dominance worth +1 Wealth/turn (then diplo). Now we still get +0.5 Wealth/turn automatically, it just upgrades it from 0.5 to 1. Powerful, but massively less so.
- Location
- Hell
Raaawr
This is why I wanted Stability Buffers!
;_;
So Art Patronage to push provinces to build a Glassworks.
This is why I wanted Stability Buffers!
;_;
Well we need glassware for the vitriol, but there wouldn't be any incentive to build glassware without vitriol.
So Art Patronage to push provinces to build a Glassworks.
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
So Lolwyna was stockpiling sulfuric acid in such massive quantities that she had multiple partitioned store-rooms of the stuff. Jesus we're lucky she didn't blow up half the countryside.
What does her machinations produce first?
[] [Prog] Art Patronage (-1 Econ, -2 Wealth, +4 Art, +1 Prestige)
[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)
[] [Prog] Expand Snail Cultivation (-1 Econ, +1 Wealth, +1 Art, potential additional effects)
[] [Prog] Expand Vineyard (-1 Econ, -1 Econ Expansion, +1 Wealth, +1 Art)
Art for art, obviously. It would promote a new set of colorations, which is always fun. Glassworks would dramatically forward things towards alchemical advancement. Snails are for TRADE MAN. Vinyards... Why are vineyards on the list?
Poor weather has destabilized a number of neighbours, how many should be brought it?
[] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Refugee] Encourage those close to come (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ, possible new True City)
[] [Refugee] Draw from all neighbours afflicted (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ, new True City)
The first one is too small! The second one is too big! The third one is juuuust right. Fucking weird blonde home invaders.
Recent innovations means that Centre of Trade is no longer necessary to have access to the market, but it does double the benefits of market dominance. Change value supported by Cosmopolitan acceptance?
[] [Value] No
[] [Value] Highlanders
[X] [Value] Thunder Speakers
[] [Value] Thunder Horse
[] [Value] Xohyssiri
[] [Value] Hathatyn
[] [Value] Metal Workers
[] [Value] Nomads
I don't especially care for Center of Trade. It pushes us towards potentially moronic decisions to maintain monopoly. Let's take stuff from the Speakers, they're religiously powerful, it can't go wrong!
What does her machinations produce first?
[] [Prog] Art Patronage (-1 Econ, -2 Wealth, +4 Art, +1 Prestige)
[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)
[] [Prog] Expand Snail Cultivation (-1 Econ, +1 Wealth, +1 Art, potential additional effects)
[] [Prog] Expand Vineyard (-1 Econ, -1 Econ Expansion, +1 Wealth, +1 Art)
Art for art, obviously. It would promote a new set of colorations, which is always fun. Glassworks would dramatically forward things towards alchemical advancement. Snails are for TRADE MAN. Vinyards... Why are vineyards on the list?
Poor weather has destabilized a number of neighbours, how many should be brought it?
[] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Refugee] Encourage those close to come (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ, possible new True City)
[] [Refugee] Draw from all neighbours afflicted (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ, new True City)
The first one is too small! The second one is too big! The third one is juuuust right. Fucking weird blonde home invaders.
Recent innovations means that Centre of Trade is no longer necessary to have access to the market, but it does double the benefits of market dominance. Change value supported by Cosmopolitan acceptance?
[] [Value] No
[] [Value] Highlanders
[X] [Value] Thunder Speakers
[] [Value] Thunder Horse
[] [Value] Xohyssiri
[] [Value] Hathatyn
[] [Value] Metal Workers
[] [Value] Nomads
I don't especially care for Center of Trade. It pushes us towards potentially moronic decisions to maintain monopoly. Let's take stuff from the Speakers, they're religiously powerful, it can't go wrong!
- Location
- Huezil
Glass works basically assure us of the possibility of using vitriol in other things, like making better dyes, making alcohol destillation, so on and so forth
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I aint Sivvie but here:
Art Patronage:
Pro: Helps the dye makers, boosting trade power even further in that field, helps the miners and potentially innovations there(???)
Con: Opportunity costs because we would not immediately be going for glass.
Glassworks:
Pro: Helps the Glassworkers giving us another valuable product to really trade as well as boosting us further along the path of advancing alchemy towards chemistry. Science boost plus basically with a side order of trade.
Con: Our Dye and Miners will be less helped by it and anything there will have to come later.
That's how I see it.
- Location
- Austria
What did he do to be half-exiled by the staff?
Shit.
[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)
[X] [Refugee] Encourage those close to come (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ, possible new True City)
@Academia Nut , okay, another question: could we get as much info as you deem possible about possible traits we get from each option, please?
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
how'd that work with napoleon? and Charles II of england?
- Location
- his hidden lair
[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] No
We just got tech that would secure trade dominance in dyes, and incentivize dominance in glass working. COT is more powerful than ever, and looking to grow stronger. I really want dat.
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] No
We just got tech that would secure trade dominance in dyes, and incentivize dominance in glass working. COT is more powerful than ever, and looking to grow stronger. I really want dat.
Why do we want the 2nd true city? Cities are useful for
1) Increasing Expand Econ slots for a given amount of land - we really need to go wide a bit more, we're already ridiculously tall
2) Admin innovations via stressing the system - but we really don't need to stress the system more, we're already low on stability.
Plus we're projected to be getting a true city naturally within a few turns anyway, assuming we continue to take actions that cost a bunch of econ at once.
1) Increasing Expand Econ slots for a given amount of land - we really need to go wide a bit more, we're already ridiculously tall
2) Admin innovations via stressing the system - but we really don't need to stress the system more, we're already low on stability.
Plus we're projected to be getting a true city naturally within a few turns anyway, assuming we continue to take actions that cost a bunch of econ at once.
keenscythe
No longer NEET
- Location
- WA, USA
[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)
[X] [Refugee] Encourage those close to come (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ, possible new True City)
[X] [Value] Highlanders
Heres hoping we can nab a stability trait.
[X] [Refugee] Encourage those close to come (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ, possible new True City)
[X] [Value] Highlanders
Heres hoping we can nab a stability trait.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)
[] [Refugee] Encourage those close to come (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ, possible new True City)
I am quite concerned about WHR's malus triggering, however, such triggers and how we deal with them are the means to evolve traits to remove those maluses. I'm up in the air here on basically all of this, leaning towards glassworks because hey really useful, but the rest I can leave until we have more information and someone runs by a good argument.
No idea on the value. Could we perhaps get more infromation there @Academia Nut?
[] [Refugee] Encourage those close to come (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ, possible new True City)
I am quite concerned about WHR's malus triggering, however, such triggers and how we deal with them are the means to evolve traits to remove those maluses. I'm up in the air here on basically all of this, leaning towards glassworks because hey really useful, but the rest I can leave until we have more information and someone runs by a good argument.
No idea on the value. Could we perhaps get more infromation there @Academia Nut?
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
@Powerofmind CoT gives us that +3 wealth.
Also, Vineyard + Snails = new goods t dominate to counterbalance Trelli.
@Carrnage idk
Also, Vineyard + Snails = new goods t dominate to counterbalance Trelli.
@Carrnage idk
Honestly, the only reason I'm not doing AP immediately to fix the problem caused by the TI is cus I don't want random fires to pop up.
We just got an opportunity to get the trade dominance in dyes. That's the "Expand Snails" option. It currently has 0 voters.
It also got massively nerfed due to the natural market access from Wealth development. So now we get +0.5 Wealth/turn per dominance without the trait, +1/turn with it. A lot less important than the upgrade from 0, especially since we already have the Salterns.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Read the update, man. We no longer need Center of Trade to have access to the market, we'd lose about half the Wealth bonus from dominating in a given field of trade. Another idea, one that doesn't force us to spend actions and lose stability from someone else entering the market, is a very good idea.
- Location
- Leeds
Could someone explain why Art Patronage is a benefit to miners and Dye makers?
Also why is Vineyard an option? I don't see an explaination in the update but that might just be me failing reading comprehension.
- Location
- Canada
It gives the dye makers possible new colours to use and the miners another source of income from selling their tailings rather then disposing of it like waste. Vineyard is an option to begin storing wine in glass.
[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] Highlanders
We are over the martial cap, no reason to guarantee negative stability.
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] Highlanders
We are over the martial cap, no reason to guarantee negative stability.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
In the last paragraph of the update how the options are ordered.
Also, Dye making is work of the third kind, so art. That's my simple reasoning.
- Location
- Hell
Rrrrr
I can't do it!
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
I can't give up Stability ._.
[X] [Prog] Art Patronage (-1 Econ, -2 Wealth, +4 Art, +1 Prestige)
We don't do this provinces won't take it. We take Art, they will take Glassworks
I can't do it!
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
I can't give up Stability ._.
[X] [Prog] Art Patronage (-1 Econ, -2 Wealth, +4 Art, +1 Prestige)
We don't do this provinces won't take it. We take Art, they will take Glassworks