TBF, Mags, you have been doing a lot of the heavylifting for the quest, so this will be in good hands.
To be clear to everyone, this is just me burning out on imagination of the quest, since my muse has been hitting me over the head a lot with so many different ideas that I just can't find myself too interested in this.
I'll still hang out here, though, since this still does have a sepcial place in my heart.
I'd like to thank you all for making this a wonderful experience while it lasted.
I'd also like to thank @Magoose, @Fluffy_serpent, and @Martin Noctis for doing so much to help prepare and write this quest. I couldn't have done it without you all.
...They needed ILM to make it, so in a way their success is our success.
By the way, Magoos, you told me before we could try to get Sydney Lumet to be Director for The Batman. Does that mean we'll get an option next turn, or that we need to create an option next turn to do so? Also, will this cause tension with either Alan or Kathleen? (Oh my God, I'm actually considering the feelings of Kathleen Kennedy...I feel sick!).
Mainly, I think that Sydney can bring in the atmosphere, grittyness and feeling of injustice and crime that he's been able to bring in his movies while we deal with the action elements. We could pay him out of pocket if needed, or give him Diretor credit if he wants.
On Princess Irulan and Chani; Well, I can't say much about them when it comes to the 2021 adaptation, as the former made no appearance in Part 1, and Chani made some brief appearances just near the end. Yet I think we can find something very interesting when we see how they were treated in comparison to the books, the 1984 movie, and the 2000 Mini Series.
Starting with Princess Irulan, the original book of Dune seems to use her mostly as narrator, as many of the quotes used in chapters have her as the author of the books, she herself quotes. She hardly makes an appearance in the original Dune as well, with most of her character development and relevance happening in Dune: Messiah. The 1984 movie follows this trend, but places her as narrator only for the beginning of the movie, where she has to give a 2-minute exposition about the entirety of the Dune universe rather than letting it happen organically. So basically, we are brought about, having to understand terms like "Spacing Guild" or "Bene Gesserit" or the entire political landscape in a 2-minute spiel, and then launched to the movie itself. Now, to be fair, this was something that David Lynch himself was against, but was mandated by Studio Executives, so I won't hold it against him.
It's the 2000 Miniseries that does something unique with her; she's actually a character, with her own wants, desires, and motivations. Though at first treated as a pawn by her father, the emperor, she does not meekly accept it, but rather resolves herself to become something more. She investigates the fall of House Atreides, she uncovers the Harkonnen plot against House Corrino (putting herself in great danger by seducing Feyd Rautha Harkonnen and discovering the actions taken against House Atreides) and becomes an actual player and someone that the emperor listens to near the end. That her first appearance also shows her more gentle and fragile side when she goes to Arrakis and speaks to Paul makes her a more complex, and likeable, character, as we can also see her grow, like Paul did, under the pressures of life, if under different circumstances.
Frankly, Princess Irulan in the 2000 miniseries is a more assertive, independent, and growing character that, much like Paul, manages to go through hardship and learns how to take control of her life. We could use this for the movie.
Chani is an interesting example n how different she's put in the different adaptations. In the Dune books she is mentioned on many occasions, and her appearances and interactions with Paul, though mentioned, are not expanded, nor given that much attention. It is clear that they love each other, but Paul's journey takes precedence over everything there. The 1984 adaptation goes a bit deeper into how much they care for each other, but then again it is also a faithful adaptation of the books. Chani, besides being Paul's companion, and a Fremen fighter, does not seem to add anything else. Nevertheless, both the book and the 1984 movie adaptation managed to make Chani a fun and likeable character. This will be important later on.
Chani's 2000 Miniseries adaptation, and the 2021 adaptation, seem almost complete opposites in a way yet both managed to expand on the character through minimal actions that made us think and made us imply more about her through them.
Starting with the 2000 miniseries, Chani's first appearance is when she surprises Paul and manages to hold him prisoner, if only temporarily as Stilgar allows him and his mother to join them. From this encounter, we know she's a skilled warrior, as Paul had defeated other Fremen before her. Through the rest of the series we don't see her fight more, even though she clearly accompanies Paul and the rest on some more missions, as the series makes a point in focusing on her more as a woman, an advisor, and Paul's companion than a fighter. That does not mean she does not fight though, as we are shown the end result of someone trying to face Paul, and she quickly dispatched him. Overall, this Chani is likeable, she shows herself as strong, resourceful, a caring mother, a counsellor, and not afraid of letting herself speak. It does play a bit too hard on the maiden in love angle, but not to the detriment of the character or the story.
The 2021 adaptation...well, we only got a few minutes of Chani, and her actions and words. Yet through them we can see that Chani is a more jaded and cynical individual than her previous adaptations. Clearly a strong fighter, and from what the trailers indicate she will continue in this trend through the second part of the movie. One of the elements shown is that she clearly shows no sign, nor desire, to see Paul join with the Fremen. Perhaps it's my imagination, but the scene where she gives Paul her knife to fight, then tells him it's so that he doesn't die unarmed (which is already quite morbid) is made all the worse as she has this tone not of disinterest, but more like vindictive glee, like he's going to die and she will enjoy it. That's the kind of thing that sticks with you, and makes me wonder how the hell are they planning to pair the two of them in the next section.
Frankly, I much prefer the Chani of the 200 miniseries, but I can see some flaws in said adaptation as well. Chani would have been better served as showing more of her skills as a fighter as well as a mother, she could also have been the one to train Paul, thereby allowing them more time together to connect and bond. Overall, if we could make it so that the 2021 Chani's skills are added to the 2000 Chani personality with the changes I already suggested, then the character would work much better.
Solomon Kane in the Nephilim's Castle Directed by: Martin Scorcese
Produced by: Michael Eisner
Distribution: Lucasfilms Unlimited
Starring: Pierce Brosnan (Solomon Kane), Charles Dance (John Wilems), Jurgen Prochnow (Baron Von Staler), Shohreh Aghdashloo (Baroness Maharis), Nicholas Hammond (Johan), Steve Forrest (Father Stuttman), Robert Hayes (Brother Wilhelm)
Conan was always going to be your favorite of Howard's works but in a close second was Solomon Kane. It was funny as unlike Conan you spent most of your life avoiding Solomon Kane, thinking that he was a weirdo pilgrim that even for a Howard story was a bit too loony of an idea. Then about five years ago with your MASH money you started collecting Howard books and read Solomon out of obligation to read the Canon. Having somewhat matured and experienced the harshness of Hollywood combined with your newfound faith, reading Solomon Kane for the first time was a one of a kind experience similar to that fateful day you picked up Conan from the library and started exploring the world of the Hyborian Age. In some ways Solomon Kane spoke to you on a deeper level than your favorite hero. He was a devout and humble men, never perfect, simply striving to do good. He had great faith in the Lord and in his fellow man, always exploring the world to search out new experiences and help everyone he could high and low. He was a dashing rogue yet so pure, a man who fought in darkness yet only served the Light. Solomon Kane shared with Conan what it meant to be a fantasy protagonist, to be so greater than life yet also be the core of what it means to be human. Had it not been for the film brats rush for Conan and Martin's interest in Kane, you would have undoubtedly tried to make it your next film after Star Wars. When watching the movie at the premiere, part of you was jealous that you missed out on starring in such an experience, yet you had a strong feeling that all the stars had aligned and the movie turned out just the way it needed to be.
When Martin requested to be the Director of Solomon Kane, you had at first been extremely hesitant. This was coming from a man who preferred dealing with New York urban dramas and had once famously derided popular entertainment as forgeries of art. Watching the movie, it was clear that there could have been no one else than Martin to guide the film's creation. Like you Martin was a heavily devout Catholic, and in spite of Solomon being a Puritan, his faith and personality contained virtues and a way of life that was universal for any true Christian which played extremely well with Martin's bread and butter of faith, sin and the follies of man. Whereas other Directors would have just turned the film into a generic Lord of the Rings ripoff with Christian paint, Martin always made sure to keep Christian themes and faith as an integral part of the plot and setting, creating something that could heavily resonate with both believers and non-believers. It was how a Christian movie should be, spreading a message of salvation and inner faith without being preachy and moralizing, all through a protagonist who was a true believer with deep love for God. Martin was working with beautiful source material and a perfect adaptation script, and yet somehow he transcended both into something far greater than even Howard could have imagined.
By far the greatest aspect of the film were its actors. Martin's specialty was always going to be sculpting a cast into something greater by using them to their fullest potential and it showed here. Just as people said you were Conan, so too did Pierce Brosnan bring Solomon Kane to life and would likely for generations to come be THE Solomon Kane. It was fucking amazing watching him just fuse into the role a way that Al Pacino could only rival, like Mark Hamill if Luke was a brooding hero of faith. It makes you wonder how the hell did Pierce not vibe with the Star Wars auditions, but it was probably for the best. Mark and Pierce both became heroes and both found their iconic roles. The rest of the cast was a treat with Charles Dance playing the relatable straight man and comedic relief well, helping to bring some levity to the story and rising to the occasion when called. Shohreh Aghdashloo was a diamond in the rough that you were really thankful to Martin for finding and giving her a new outlet in America to escape the current mess in Iran. Shohreh at first plays to the standard trope of the temptress, and then goes beyond the tropes to show heavy depth and nuance of a victim yearning for freedom, and in the end just as Carrie did with Leia, embracing her role in action and becoming a hero. Jurgen Prochnow also gave a tremendous debut, really driving home the theme of man's follies and the arrogance of kings with his complex portrayal of the Baron, someone who wants to do and be good yet is blind to the consequences of his deeds and lead astray from the righteous path. Then there was Nicholas Hammond, and how the hell motherfucking Spider-Man managed to steal the show in the third act was beyond you. Apparently the dude really wanted to earn his paycheck or open doors for a post Peter Parker career because once the mask was off and he showed his true colors as Nephilim, he ate the scenery in the best way possible and became one of the most memorable villains in film while delivering a hell of a twist. All the minor cast and extras played their roles excellently, it was a magnificent tale.
Of course what good are the actors if they are unable to perform on a stage worthy of their talents? In that regards Martin delivered plenty and then more. ILM continued their unbroken streak of genius by managing to construct a beautiful castle in the Lucasfilms studio lot which transplanted a slice of 16th century Germany to LA and somehow seemed as authentic as a true castle. The creepy architecture which seemed to threaten to devour the heroes and combined elements of faith, majesty, sin and terror really created Gothic Fantasy that made you feel the world. The climax was definitely going to go down in cinematic history as it managed to rival if not surpass Conan's magic with the most realistic and terrifying depiction of fallen angels and demons, witchcraft and sorcery brought to life in the historical (You had no idea why, but Steve seemed giddy after watching it, something about inspiration for Indiana Jones?). Martin's cinematography which focused on naturalism and stories through personal introspection of the characters was truly at its best here. Combined with a stellar score and badass action scenes, it truly was an amazing feat of fantasy.
Then there was the release and what followed for the next three months was truly a fascinating story. When the promotional campaign started, Mike admitted he didn't really know how the hell to market the film. He was a secular Jewish man who was the Producer of a Christian Gothic Fantasy and the tone and genre were so alien to him and he was unsure of how to sell something to the public that had elements of horror and adventure. So he arranged for Martin and the cast to do a press tour and release the first trailer, like throwing a fishing rod into the ocean and seeing how they take the bait and how to react from there. Ironically, Mike's biggest aid came from the Evangelical Moralists.
Like clockwork, once the word about Solomon Kane spread, the Moralists raised their pitchforks and torches and did their best to cancel and boycott the film long before it opened. They decried Solomon Kane as another Lucasfilms bastardization of faith and promotion of witchcraft and Satanism following in the footsteps of Carrie and Dawn of the Dead. The children couldn't possibly be exposed to fantastical Christianity because it went against the bible and everything about the film was heresy. This time there was more organization and ammunition to the movement with Pat Robertson leading the charge, but in spite of all of that, their opposition actually fueled interest and hype. These same haters had decried Carrie and Dawn of the Dead, and your average Cinephile loved those two films as horror masterpieces, so surely there opposition was a sign that this was good? Martin for once seemed to have thin skin towards the controversy and went on the attack, labelling the moralists as fearmongers who get off of their power trip of spreading fear and paranoia and that they would rather preach and condemn of what was wrong than live by the bible or open themselves to other expressions of faith. From there things escalated into a sort of religious culture war with Catholics and Mormons coming out in defense of the film. With word of Solomon Kane spreading and having gained experience on how to market a Howard film through your work with Conan, Mike crafted a narrative combining the beauty of faith and strength from love of God with fantastical action and adventure as if the literary classics were being brought to light under a Gothic lens. With this the conversation blew up and people blocks were busted on opening weekend to see Lucsafilms' latest masterpiece.
You could rest easy knowing that Solomon could more than make back its budget, but you had no idea it would be so fucking huge, and while performing alongside Disney's magnum opus of War of the Worlds. Martin Scorcese, the man who held popcorn movies with disdain, was now the Director of the sixth highest grossing movie with $423 million at the box office. Audiences who both believed in Christ and did not along with all walks of life generally had a great time with everyone finding their own favorite aspect of the film to fall in love with. The general consensus was that it was the first non-biblical/slice of life film to treat religion with respect without patronizing. Most critics gave the film high praise with callouts for the great acting and Martin's direction with plenty of Oscar buzz. There was a very loud minority who gave the films 1 star, but these tended to come from personal biases with how they never liked the themes and genres and it only reinforced everything they saw as a bad movie. You wish you could just see releases that saw high praise on both sides, but this was probably as good as it was going to get.
The sales data was where things got really interesting. For once a Lucasfilms release was heavily unbalanced in terms of geography with international sales only making a third of the American box office. Understandably this was due to the Christian themes and it having fantasy elements instead of a pure biblical adaptation like Jesus of Nazareth. A good collection of Arab countries banned the film outright and in reliable Japan it only made 4 million. Thankfully there was some global audience with it being a hit in Latin America and the British Isles. Hell, even in Troubled Northern Ireland both Protestants and Catholics liked the film and for a month things were calm similar to the "Star Wars Peace".
It seemed that Solomon Kane was mostly fit for America, but what was most shocking of all was that the audiences who watched it in repeat and had the most love and acclaim for the film was the Evangelical's home base of the Bible Belt! Sure it also so packed theaters in the Mormon Corridor and Catholic immigrant neighborhoods, but the Deep South full of pastors who decried Solomon Kane as Satan's film fucking went insane in support. Apparently a badass Christian adventurer who was firmly devoted in his faith, defeating fallen angels through the Power of Christ was the type of story that Southern America was yearning to experience. Southern cinemas showed long lines which blocked streets. Strict bible-thumping parents gave their kids money to see Solomon Kane. Bible Study groups had movie nights watching it, a lot of your harshest pulpit critics suddenly did 180s and praised Solomon Kane as Hollywood gone right. Oh it's not like the Moralists were purged completely as there are some people who just can't handle any work of fiction with a hint of darkness or violence. But apparently, if it's done praising Jesus then it's an exception. Welp, it's a shame you'll probably have to go through this whole song and dance with Conan, but a victory is a victory.
Still, you have to wonder if you set off a trend or something. It made for a particularly amusing Sunday mass when you, Carrie and Mary were afterwards greeted by lots of your fellow parishioners who gave praise for Solomon Kane, with Father Roy even saying in the homily that it was nice to finally have a Hollywood Hero who "Kicked ass for the Lord". Todd also really liked it, said it got him thinking about a lot of things and he asked to borrow your catechism. You prayed he finds what he's looking for.
You expected after the immense success that the other Studios would once again do their best to follow the trend and milk it, but surprisingly they were rather muted, if not anxious about what this meant, not even Universal throwing around money to one up Lucasfilms. New Hollywood among its many features was a secular institution where the open piety of the 40's and 50's was gone. Even for the few filmmakers and executives who were devout like you and Martin, making a religious hybrid like Solomon Kane didn't really fit their idea of a proper Christian film and made them uncomfortable. To be fair, even with the discomfort there might not have been a radical change in production strategy as all the studios seemed to be set in their ways. Universal was the Blockbuster Factory with a love for Epics. Disney was once more giving love to their abused child of animation while bolstering Touchstone. Fox was now a house of horrors. Columbia was Superheroes and UA took the scraps and experimentals. If Conan and Dracula were huge hits, you wonder if that made Lucasfilms the House of Fantasy?
At least one thing that was guaranteed is that the Lucasfilms-Howard partnership was going to go strong well into the next century. The Howard Estate LOVED Solomon Kane and were greatly happy that the author had finally achieved mainstream success with one of his signature characters being received so well by the public, though they were surprised that Conan didn't come first. The Estate since release had been getting a flood of offers for media tie-ins and partnerships with the most prominent being talks of a Solomon Kane comic for Marvel. The Howard Estate also informed you that the current Conan writer, Robert Jordan would be approaching Lucasfilms in the near future with some original Howard scripts for Kane and other characters. Hopefully one day you could receive full control of the Canon, but for now you were very thankful for this lucrative and booming partnership.
Lastly of note was Solomon Kane's distinction of being the first Lucasfilms movie to be released on VHS. The introduction of VHS compatible VCRs the last year had caused a consumer revolution where now if someone missed a movie's theatrical run, they didn't have to hope and wait for it to come on TV at a good time or wait for rerelease, now they could buy a copy of the film directly then go home and plug it into the VCR. For some reason Disney was strongly against the practice and preferred to keep to their cherished vault, but not Lucasfilms. Both Mike and George were in firm agreement that VHS was the future of film consumption and as such Solomon Kane would serve as the first Lucasfilms VHS release with plans for Star Wars next year and your Warner purchases over the course of the 80s. Solomon Kane would be released in October as first a Halloween movie and then a Advent and Christmas movie. Sales were sparse outside of North America, but in the US and Canada it was a firm hit with over 80 million dollars and blew away expectations with over a million copies sold. Not only was Solomon Kane being purcahsed by newly constructed video rental stories and libraries, it was seeing a spreading personal ownership in middle and upper class families and even some poorer households saved up enough money to watch their favorite Christian hero on repeat. It was an amazing feat, for what would have been just a couple million theater tickets in numbers, Lucasfilms got 80 million and pushed Solomon Kane's net worth to half a billion. Currently Mike was engaged in negotiations with the Victor Company to find some way to significantly reduce costs of operation and sale so Star Wars VHS sales would hit tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions. It would probably take some years before the VHS was a common household item, but like the radio and TV it would get there. And now you would see the start of a very fine collection.
Robert Zemeckis practically became Spielberg's Student before the move to Lucasfilms..
Wouldn't that mean he is most likely already working in Lucas Films with Spielberg getting him part of his crew?
(Context: Zemeckis' first film was I Wanna Hold Your Hand, released in 1978 with Spielberg part of the crew as Executive Producer. He is known for creating: Back To The Future, Forest Gump, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, etc.)
Bob Gale would've also become part of the Scriptwriters team to go with Zemeckis..probably.
Hey guys, did you know a certain writer of cats in hats wrote a movie script? It was like something out of one of his books before the studio forced adult jokes for the parents and an adult love interest along with another writer which caused it to bomb in the box office....
I wonder what we could do with a more.... Faithful adaptation of "five thousand fingers"
Wow. Like wow I was not expecting that sort of fun stuff to be there and I just realized something:
We're just letting the guys do whatever the hell they want with their films… and somehow it works…
Turns out that when you allow talented people to do why they think is right for their films and have people not be interfering with the creative process beyond the bare minimum…
Art tends to be the success and profits follow.
Hopefully Martin can reconcile the fact that sometimes popcorn entertainment can be fine art.
Turns out that when you allow talented people to do why they think is right for their films and have people not be interfering with the creative process beyond the bare minimum…
Talented being the operative word here. That's part of the problem nowadays, too much freedom for talentless hacks and not enough people giving them oversight and telling them no. Fucking everyone gets their own show or film with millions of dollars just thrown at them nowadays. Let's just hope that it doesn't all end up swinging right back around to being overly restrictive again as an overcorrection.
Turns out that when you allow talented people to do why they think is right for their films and have people not be interfering with the creative process beyond the bare minimum…
Let's not forget that sometimes said creative people need to br brought down to Earth lest they allow their imagination fly them too high to the point they crash and burn, or they simply leave the audience behind.
As much as I would like to agree with this (and I do agree in much of it) the creatives must also be brought down to Earth occasionally.
Talented being the operative word here. That's part of the problem nowadays, too much freedom for talentless hacks and not enough people giving them oversight and telling them no. Fucking everyone gets their own show or film with millions of dollars just thrown at them nowadays. Let's just hope that it doesn't all end up swinging right back around to being overly restrictive again as an overcorrection.
Well it's not like we're giving the keys to the kingdom to rank ametures but to film professionals who are quite literally among some of the best in cinima history, all of whom have proven track records of not with box office success, but in film making.
Let's not forget that sometimes said creative people need to br brought down to Earth lest they allow their imagination fly them too high to the point they crash and burn, or they simply leave the audience behind.
As much as I would like to agree with this (and I do agree in much of it) the creatives must also be brought down to Earth occasionally.
There's no issue with liking the movie. I love plenty of terrible pieces of media and some of my favorites are deeply flawed. Thinking it's a good movie is a whole other matter. As long as you don't think it's actually a good movie and recognize enough of the flaws, then it's all good.
There's no issue with liking the movie. I love plenty of terrible pieces of media and some of my favorites are deeply flawed. Thinking it's a good movie is a whole other matter. As long as you don't think it's actually a good movie and recognize enough of the flaws, then it's all good.
I'd say some more than others and that not all flaws are built the same, but at the end of the day, if you aren't a media critic of some stripe, it's usually not going to matter and enjoying your time with it is what matters. As long as you had fun, who really cares?
