- Location
- England, unfortunately.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Again:
Somewhat is smaller than Middling?
This is a legitimate question, Have I been using that word wrong all this time?
...Well.
Dragon Ball: After the End
Somewhat is smaller than Middling?
This is a legitimate question, Have I been using that word wrong all this time?
Actually, wouldn't that depend on how you interpret "somewhat" and "middling"? I've known people to use "middling" to instead mean "very little", which is inaccurate, but if that's what you're used to, then that's how you'd likely interpret it.
Not saying it's accurate mind, but I can see how it might have come about.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Point of order: we had very good reason to think that all living saiyans not part of the Exile refugee flotilla were dead, because they either made it to the ships and fled Earth, or died with Earth. We had no compelling reason to assume there were survivors elsewhere, since I don't think we even knew for sure if Tarble was canon.
To be fair, I bet Kakara could do it, but it would take EFFORT, and I'm not sure I want us to be forced into a situation where we must choose either to expend that effort or to court disaster.
Thing is... doing either of those sounds like a really bad idea. We will almost certainly not vote to do those things. Letting the dragon communicate telepathically without letting him tap into and use enough power to be a problem? Sounds tricky, and if we get it wrong Bad Things could happen. Letting the dragon time-share our body, or one of our bodies? Super-problematic, especially if Dazarel is still even slightly inclined to use that benefit to make our lives harder.
[folds arms]We could also evolve the mild distrust we have of sorcery from A Cause into a greater distrust due to the several pages of discussion in which we doubt the expert opinion of most of our sorcerers regarding the sealing procedure.
Tell me, did you READ what I had to say about the sorcerors maybe being wrong? Or did you just skim it and accidentally misrepresent it in a mocking fashion?
Because I was very explicit about the fact that I believe the sorcerors are intelligent, competent, and that their opinion is a considerable reassurance that permanently put to rest some of my doubts. My continued skepticism was based entirely on the fact that the sorcerors are mere mortals and can be wrong (and for that matter even the gods themselves are hilariously fallible in Dragonball). I explicitly compared them to groups I approve of on the whole, such as engineers.
No, but then, he was never a psychic inside our mind, and there were considerable physical distractions preventing him from concentrating his full effort on taking over one of us. Telepathy sufficient to enable reading minds may not enable controlling minds, but it's hardly unrealistic to be concerned about this.
The point being, opening up the seal to let the dragon's power flow through is very likely to enable the dragon to affect the outside world, and to do so in ways detrimental to us if it is so inclined.
Right.
So either Kakara is opening herself up to persistent harassment by the dragon (if the dragon proves recalcitrant and irritates her regularly), OR she is committing to spending considerable time and effort 'talking down' the dragon into a non-obnoxious state, OR she is going to end up having to lock him down in self-defense to get some peace and quiet.
We can't have it both ways. We can't have the advantage of being in permanent mental contact with a powerful, hostile, but redeemable imprisoned mind, without the disadvantage of being in permanent mental contact with a powerful, redeemable, but hostile imprisoned mind.
Right. By default interaction occurs, improving relationships or preventing their decay takes action points.
Now apply that pattern, but remember that Dazarel starts out hating us. If that pattern holds, every day Dazarel will be interacting with us by default, but based on a platform of hatred. So we've got a busy teenage girl with a voice in her head shouting "I hate you, these Garenhulders are contemptible shrimps and you are an ignorant monkey-girl, I HATE THIS PLANET!"
The most likely outcomes I can see are:
1) Kakara presses 'Mute' on Dazarel and only ever turns the sound back on when she's unusually ready to listen to him, by which point he's got some real humdingers saved up and drops them on her, which creates a downward cycle that does bad things for her desire to hear from Dazarel, OR
2) Kakara specifically commits concentration and energy (i.e. action points) to improving her relationship with Dazarel to the point where the dragon is no longer shouting hateful crap at her, OR
3) Kakara starts exhibiting symptoms similar to depression or schizophrenia, because "has a voice in your head that hates you and thinks everything sucks" is a pretty good summary of what depression and schizophrenia are like.
It's like, having a situation where by default we interact with someone and notice their attitude, then have to invest in actions to improve their attitude works when dealing with a sibling who starts out loving us and gradually cools if not talked to. It doesn't work so well, at least for the purpose of 'not imposing costs on Kakara' when dealing with an entity that actively hates us.
Maybe so, maybe not. I'm not going to assume it will help by default without us having to do any hard work.
My point is, the self option has a much worse risk/reward payoff IF we don't spend AP on interacting with Dazarel.
Maybe we'll choose to do that, and maybe we won't. But since we can't predict in advance whether we'll vote to socialize Dazarel to the exclusion of whatever else is on offer... that's a possible flaw in plans that rely on us, personally, socializing Dazarel next year.
Probably. Middling means "moderate".
Of course, then this raises the question of how @PoptartProdigy is using it. If Poptart is using "middling" in the "very little" sense...
I'm aware. See the post right above yours.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Uju, that is the second time you mentioned this... but that isn't the case. All surviving Z fighter descendants came to Garenhuld. The only ones who didn't where the androids, who were already off planet and Majin Buu.
The Fourth Monado
S U B A R A S H I I
- Location
- Away
one measily power outage and I come back to this...?
dear god in heaven
Beerus, on the other hand, is supposed to destroy universal threats and dangerous civilizations/species. He's actually kind of bad at it.
as for the physics, all you gotta do is aim a blast of sufficient strength downwards. I believe the minimum point for an Earth-like planet hangs around 20,000, but don't quote me on that.
admittedly, a nonfocused planet buster that devastates the world is normally less effective against peer opponents then a planet buster that's focused and wastes little energy in big detonations and showy domes of light, so yeah
its aweful
dear god in heaven
Mostly because people like living on planets/like using their resources, which they would lack if they destroyed it.
Beerus, on the other hand, is supposed to destroy universal threats and dangerous civilizations/species. He's actually kind of bad at it.
as for the physics, all you gotta do is aim a blast of sufficient strength downwards. I believe the minimum point for an Earth-like planet hangs around 20,000, but don't quote me on that.
admittedly, a nonfocused planet buster that devastates the world is normally less effective against peer opponents then a planet buster that's focused and wastes little energy in big detonations and showy domes of light, so yeah
if you think this is hell, consider what Poptart and I go through in figuring out things like 'what the fuck is with genetics in this universe' and 'how the fuck does the divine bureaucracy work'
its aweful
- Location
- England, unfortunately.
- Pronouns
- She/They
There were other saiyans.
Do you not remember the Broly Movie?
Honestly, you're the one who brought up the Option that lead to these pages and pages of War.
In like a day I'll feel more sympathetic, but right now, for all this typing, Your time of Judgement has come Monado
"Do you know how long a Minute is?"
"Wha-?! Of course I do!"
"Because I'm not so sure Mr. Toriyama sir."
The Fourth Monado
S U B A R A S H I I
- Location
- Away
something something my Justice is superior to yoursHonestly, you're the one who brought up the Option that lead to these pages and pages of War.
In like a day I'll feel more sympathetic, but right now, for all this typing, Your time of Judgement has come Monado
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
At least, it did for Frieza, who was sitting at about 1000,000 PL.
Yeah, but they weren't from Earth. Do you not remember the Broly movie?
I slept for 2.5 hours and came to find the thread had caught fire during that time. I know the feeling.
- Location
- England, unfortunately.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Admittedly no. I'll be the first to pony up that most on my knowledge does come from Abridged.
I'm sorry for trying to act like a smart ass and thinking I knew more than I did.
Yeah, I fucked up.
Thank you, but I think you are reading more into it than it says.
It doesn't say anything about letting him out of the seal, or letting him possess bodies. It's not Naruto.
There's a reason why Head Dragon is harsher than Chibi.
Do we actually know this? Was it stated?
Because this is what's in the histories:
Would we know if anyone stayed behind?
Especially given that it's explicitly stated that the Garenhuld Saiyans lost a fair chunk of their history in the Dark Age?
Why is the assumption that every Saiyan descendant of the Z-fighters would automatically live on Earth? Wouldn't be travelling?
Move away for one reason or another, especially at the time when Earth was beset on all sides prior to Son Gohan becoming a god?
Or even that every Saiyan was automatically living on their original planet when it got blown up?
[X] Seal him in a less imposing physical body, with his powers sealed as well (somewhat harsh, renders him almost completely harmless while still giving him physical freedom. Implement chibi Dazarel).
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I'm not really willing to go back through 30 pages of posts to find the citation for that one, sorry.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Oh no, THAT is how I read your argument. But that was after Poptart went out of his way to point out that it was closer to a two plus two situation instead of higher mathematics and you explained that while the sorcerers are as sure as it is possible for them to be, there were cases before in which a paradigm shift caused "truths" in science to be questioned, which is admitedly a good argument.
However, that came after several pages of arguing how complicated the sealing procedure actually was, whether it was a new thing to try or not and whether we could afford our experts being wrong. The conclusion reached would not cause the evolution I referred by itself but it doesn't change the fact that what led to it were several pages of argument regarding whether we could trust how sure they could be about that and the conclusion reached was that people are falible, even in things regarded as truth. Since I don't see Kakara suddenly questioning all fields of science in that way and since she does have a prior example of a magical spell going hilariously wrong when supercharged, it is not so out there that the several pages of discussion might cause an evolution that would let her to be distrustful of sorcery. Not in a "they don't know what they are doing" way but in a "I rather rely in other things since I don't understand this and I can't know how right they are about what they take as fact" as a result of the, again, several pages in which that took prominence.
Just like I can't be sure if an evolution to the ambitious trait into something like power hungry would come from choosing to seal the dragon within ourselves or from the several pages of people against it arguing that we chose to seal him within ourselves just to gain more power despite other arguments being made. We have seen that discussion influences Kakara's thought process and that the amount of discussion for a certain argument makes it more likely to be the reason in the update. So, if it is constantly said that Kakara wants to seal Dazz inside herself because more power, then the reason she would think in the update is that she wants more power while if it were that it allows her constant interaction with him it would be constant interaction with him. Which is a reason to be annoyed when people focus on a single point of an argument to the exclusion of others.
Similarly, if we have one post in which we reach a conclusion (or, in this case, in which it is finally clear what your argument against it is) but several pages of arguing about it and people taking it as distrust of magic solution (whether they are for or against it) which spans through several updates, it does seem more reasonable that said discussion becomes part of her thought process since you are not the only one who took part of it but several players. More importantly, if a reason not to vote for sealing him inside her is "sorcerers are human and falible and might be mistaken about the paradigm or new information might change how they view magic later" then it makes sense that, what is taken from that is "I rather seal him in a lower form because i am afraid they might be mistaken despite their reassurances" which given her initial distrust for sorcery and priors encounters for it might cause a major distrust for sorcery; even if that is not the intention of said argument.
Plus, as you have pointed out before, I think, we can't really predict how her traits will develope, citing Protector and the results of Garenhuld II. Thus what I meant was that, if your argument was that we can't really predict how traits will develope but this is a pivotal moment in which ambitious is the more visible trait and thus it is likely that if we choose an option that uses ambitious it is likely to be the trait that developes then, by that same argument, if we don't choose the ambitious option and one of the arguments against choosing said option, which involved several pages, was fear that they might be wrong anyways then that combined with a previous character trait against sorcery has as much chance to evolve into a further anti sorcery trait. Since they both use an argument during the vote as a reason even if it wasn't the only argument and both have to do with an already existing character trait.
So basically I am against "it might develope a power hungry trait" as an argument for not choosing chibi since you could also with a similar reasoning make a "it might cause a distrust sorcery trait" argument in favor of not voting against the ambitious option. Saying "it might evolve our ambitious trait" doesn't seem to me like a fair argument to make. The reply was meant to be in the context of whether a choice might cause a trait evolution, not an attack against you.
This doesn't really seem like my day. A lot of things I say end up taken as meaning different things than I meant today.
- Location
- England, unfortunately.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I know that feel man.
In terms of the trait, I highly doubt it will give us power hungry straight up, but it does look like it would direct us down that as a potential path, alongside some others.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Now a large part of the posts are talking about how many posts there are.
- Location
- England, unfortunately.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Welcome to the High stakes world of Quests, fic
- Location
- USA
Was in class for a few hours, and now we have a dumpster fire of a thread (in the smelly shit I burning in a controlled ish way), had a mod vist (for something that feels like it happened ages ago), and really haven't made more progress on convincing each other (but are getting more and more sucked into fighting).
Still find Simon's callback to his engineers example as to why we can't trust the sorcerers about the seal to be hilarious* (unless he made another example since -- thread is moving really fast)
But really at this point, both sides have dug in and are shooting at each other. They've got points that they care about (either in the benefits of their option, or their dislike of the other) and no arguments by anyone will change them at this point.
I'm just glad the fear mongering has died down.
*Although that's probably more of a measure of how bad my week has been that I got that much enjoyment out of it.
Still find Simon's callback to his engineers example as to why we can't trust the sorcerers about the seal to be hilarious* (unless he made another example since -- thread is moving really fast)
But really at this point, both sides have dug in and are shooting at each other. They've got points that they care about (either in the benefits of their option, or their dislike of the other) and no arguments by anyone will change them at this point.
I'm just glad the fear mongering has died down.
*Although that's probably more of a measure of how bad my week has been that I got that much enjoyment out of it.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
I expect at least a sentence in Kakara's thought process next update to be about how much of a mental back and forth it took her to decide among those two options.
- Location
- Dual citizen of SV&SB
Hahahahaha.
But yeah; having read all of the posts (or almost, apparently) since the update, The same arguments have gone around time and time again...
But never got a satisfactory answer to *****, or ********.
....