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Dragon Ball: After the End

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Simon_Jester said:
*In fact, the argument advanced by some head-dragon supporters that "this will force us to interact with Dazarel instead of ignoring him" kind of contradicts an important defense of head-dragon that was raised earlier. Namely, the defense "Dazarel can't corrupt or harass us because we can shut him up whenever we like."

We can't protect ourselves from harassment if we don't shut him up, and we can't interact with him if we do shut him up. All head-Dazarel has to do to subvert any 'free action' options we get for interacting with him is be a jerk, forcing Kakara to shut him up if she wants to get anything done or have any peace. And frankly... he's already a jerk, so the odds of that happening are not low.
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Shutting him up does not neccesarily mean cutting him off experiencing things. And experiencing things from our perspective would likely still provide some benefit.
Simon_Jester said:
I can easily imagine a situation where the threshold of mental influence required to get us to let Dazarel out is lower than the threshold required to compel us to literally self-destruct or stand unresisting while someone else kills us.

Our vulnerability to mind control subversion is at best constant but at worst increased if we have a sealed ancient evil inside our mind that we can release by an act of will.
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I can't. Releasing Dazarel before we're sure he's safe to be released is a suicidal act. If you can make Kakara do that, then I would logically hold you could make her break her own neck.
Simon_Jester said:
If Kakara tried to blow up the planet, Berra or Apra or Yammar would have a realistic chance of stopping her. If Kakara released Dazarel and Dazarel tried to destroy the planet, not so much.
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Actually, they really wouldn't unless they were right there. Blowing up a planet is not hard.
Simon_Jester said:
The fact that so far no one has blown up Garenhuld strongly suggests that one saiyan of equal or greater power can generally stop another saiyan from doing so.

Someone who cannot bring about a disaster themselves due to active opposition might nevertheless try to do so indirectly by releasing a greater threat which cannot be stopped as easily. I mean, that's the entire Babidi story right there, no?
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Actually, I'm fairly sure it's more because of the Exiles having a small, non-suicidal population that doesn't want to blow up their home, and possibly Seers predicting such things and preempting them.
Simon_Jester said:
-There may be some way in which trait evolution is related to how plot-important the actions we take are, and our actions involving Dazarel are by far the most plot-significant actions we've taken, being as how they directly prevented the destruction of the entire world. The only other thing that was anywhere near as important was the Sealing, and we were popping traits left and right back then (to be fair that was the prologue).
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That was indeed due to it being the prologue, back when Kakara's character was still forming.
Artanis Prime said:
I'm starting to get slightly annoyed at all the talk of the RP, ether its cannon and actively influencing what is going on in this quest and we should have a lot more knowledge as a play base then we apparently do, or its just an Alternate Universe which means any information gleaned from it is at best theoretical and shouldn't be treated as any more gospel then anything else.
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It's both, simultaneously. On account of it dealing with alternate timelines. :p
uju32 said:
I do not have access to the RP, and so cannot judge one way or the other.
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It's in the RP section. Or use of the various participants to get a link. You're perfectly free to read it.
uju32 said:
Tangentially, I will remind people that Kakara is 13, and CAN be overburdened.
The last time Kakara got overstressed; she simply walked away and quit everything in the middle of a meeting with the heads of government of Garenhuld. That worked out because Berra was there to take up the slack.

If we seal a head dragon, it is not a burden or a responsibility that can be laid down or handed over to someone else for a while.
There will be noone to take up the slack when we're tired, and our only option for solitude or relaxation will be to lock him up behind his seal.

Kakara will be well aware that everytime she locks him away she's subjecting him to sensory deprivation, and it becomes a battle between her Compassion and her fatigue.
This is not a good dilemna to intentionally set up.
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I think a major difference is how much of a burden we're expecting, how well she can cope, and whether we think we can get actions that will allow her to relax crammed through.
 
[X] Seal him in your own head. You will be his prison and his warden, and see what benefits you can gain from having a dragon chained in your body (x1.25, from, "ambitious." Middling harshness, Dazarel is as restricted as the inanimate object version but has you on hand for conversation and interesting experiences, renders him completely harmless, may or may not allow Kakara to exploit him for power).
 
Going to put up a tally here quick:
Adhoc vote count started by Gore17 on Mar 2, 2018 at 6:13 PM, finished with 707 posts and 111 votes.
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Gore17 said:
Your tally is already out of date, it doesn't include Beholder from the post above you.
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I noticed.

Seriously how.
Beholderofwords said:
[X] Seal him in your own head. You will be his prison and his warden, and see what benefits you can gain from having a dragon chained in your body (x1.25, from, "ambitious." Middling harshness, Dazarel is as restricted as the inanimate object version but has you on hand for conversation and interesting experiences, renders him completely harmless, may or may not allow Kakara to exploit him for power).
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May I ask Why?
 
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Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Gore17 on Mar 2, 2018 at 6:13 PM, finished with 707 posts and 111 votes.
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Artanis Prime said:
You joke but my dream would be Tinker Gemina and Doc Kakara working together to reinvent some of Gero's tech and turning Jenny into our Android #1 :p
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My dream is we get in contact with our research teams and suggest courses of action for teams of professionals to try, like Blutz Wave emitters sitting behind our eyeballs on the optic nerve (those waves being the moon waves causing Oozaru.)

The3rdCorinthian said:
I noticed.

Seriously how.
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You didn't actually tally it, you just inserted the old tally. It says it was last run 37 minutes ago.
 
With that 1.25 vote weighting...

We did it, SV, we are the Space-Ninja-Demon-Fox-Containing-Ninja.

Hell, we already run around with a bunch of clones and seem determined to make more and better clones.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
My dream is we get in contact with our research teams and suggest courses of action for teams of professionals to try, like Blutz Wave emitters sitting behind our eyeballs on the optic nerve (those waves being the moon waves causing Oozaru.)
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Also acceptable...though I think we, or someone, would have to invent, or re-invent maybe, Blutz Wave emitters before we could do that. Also is there a reason we need a squad of trained Oozaru Soldiers at a moments notice?
 
Gore17 said:
I think a major difference is how much of a burden we're expecting, how well she can cope, and whether we think we can get actions that will allow her to relax crammed through.
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Let me quote the GM, the last time this came up:
People can hold up a long time under a serious amount of strain. Disruptions to their routine, unbelievable pressure, the necessity of having to lie to almost everybody they meet...it is a truly stunning level of pressure. And they can still keep going.
Until suddenly, they can't.

So, in the aftermath of this madness...

[ ][AFTER] Scry like your life depends on it. What happened here? Who issued the orders? Find out yesterday what will happen three months from now.
[ ][AFTER] Throw yourself into PR. You presented an image today, and it's a workable one. Now you need to reinforce it.
[ ][AFTER] Write-in. You know how you want to exploit this.
[X][AFTER] Kais and ancestors, no. Just...no. You are tired. You are a mess. You have been dealing with crisis after crisis for months! You'll...you'll deal with this. You will! Just...Kais, it needs to wait.
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People are explicitly talking about socializing said hostile dragon , and bringing up how they think we won't need actions to attempt to change his loyalties and behavior. In a Quest where we had to spend Actions to repair the relationship with our brother.

I would prefer to avoid making claims about how bad things could get.
But that people think there are no costs to having a hostile entity in your head all the time while trying to convert them don't seem to grok how this works. Prison guards get to go home, and even they have to navigate significant pressures at work; they end up having to desensitize themselves to survive.

Kakara's first character sheet is Compassionate.
Consider how that works with being the warden of a max security, sensory deprivation cell.
 
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uju32 said:
Let me quote the GM, the last time this came up:

People are explicitly talking about socializing said hostile dragon , and bringing up how they think we won't need actions to attempt to change his loyalties and behavior.
In a Quest where we had to spend Actions to repair the relationship with our brother.

I would prefer to avoid making claims about how bad things could get.
But that people think there are no costs to having a hostile entity in your head all the time while trying to convert them don't seem to grok how this works. Prison guards get to go home, and even they have to navigate significant pressures at work; they end up having to desensitize themselves to survive.

Kakara's first character sheet is Compassionate.
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You'll notice I'm not one of them. I fully intend to spend actions on Dazarel, and I intend to spend actions on relaxing, and I will campaign until my eyes shrivel up from staring at the screen too long and my fingers turn bloody from pressing the keyboard so much to ensure it.
 
Gore17 said:
You'll notice I'm not one of them. I fully intend to spend actions on Dazarel, and I intend to spend actions on relaxing, and I will campaign until my eyes shrivel up from staring at the screen too long and my fingers turn bloody from pressing the keyboard so much to ensure it.
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Honestly, ths situation is looking more and more like

"Social-Training-Global events-Personal Projects-School. Pick 4"

In a perfect scenario, we could do this.

Unfortunately, as a protagonist, we're terribly at risk of being found by the Plot.


KaintukeeBob said:
We did it, SV, we are the Space-Ninja-Demon-Fox-Containing-Ninja.
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Please stop reminding me of Ozymandias Yelling " I DID IT" after he 'Saved' the world.
 
Artanis Prime said:
Also acceptable...though I think we, or someone, would have to invent, or re-invent maybe, Blutz Wave emitters before we could do that. Also is there a reason we need a squad of trained Oozaru Soldiers at a moments notice?
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It's possible Blutz Waves haven't been artificially recreated by technology yet, but that's a problem for the research team. Also, whilst Oozaru enforcers would be nice, they would also be nice for us personally - one weakness of the Oozaru form is you have to stay staring at the Power Ball for some time as you transform. This would let us move freely and dodge as we did so, and cut down on the time required, both of which might be important in a crisis.

I should note, I stole the concept of Blutz Wave Emitters from a DBZ video game.
 
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The3rdCorinthian said:
Honestly, ths situation is looking more and more like

"Social-Training-Global events-Personal Projects-School. Pick 4"

In a perfect scenario, we could do this.

Unfortunately, as a protagonist, we're terribly at risk of being found by the Plot.
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Free actions. Relaxation/Ablative Armor. I know some like DeathbyBunnies don't like them because they're "wasted", but I think they'll be important, both schedule and stress wise.
 
Gore17 said:
You'll notice I'm not one of them. I fully intend to spend actions on Dazarel, and I intend to spend actions on relaxing, and I will campaign until my eyes shrivel up from staring at the screen too long and my fingers turn bloody from pressing the keyboard so much to ensure it.
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Good for you.
But you control only one vote, and we have sufficient crises inbound that people will argue, and with good reason, that those actions WILL be needed elsewhere. And you can't just pause caring for a prisoner; not how it works.

That's the flexibility that the chibi Daz option gives us.
The next time a Dragon chooses to make a house call, or something bigger like Beerus, we can drop everything and focus without having to worry about the needs of the prisoner in our head, because our family/friends/society will pick up the slack in the meantime.

That's why we're a society, and not a hermit living in the woods.
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Mar 2, 2018 at 6:32 PM, finished with 725 posts and 112 votes.
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[X] Seal him in a less imposing physical body, with his powers sealed as well (somewhat harsh, renders him almost completely harmless while still giving him physical freedom. Implement chibi Dazarel).

I feel a bit guilty dropping in for such an important vote when I just lurk in this quest, but apparently I'm invested or something. I hope it isn't contagious.
 
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