- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Yes. Yes we very much do.
Or do you believe both Sophie and Maya are also masque Saiyans?
Dragon Ball: After the End
Yes. Yes we very much do.
Or do you believe both Sophie and Maya are also masque Saiyans?
That literally just says 2 of the weirdos got training from someplace, not from human masters or saiyan masters, just someplace. It also only says they've gotten some level of what they consider training. Also considering what we learn about Maya later she might just be referring to her time fighting bears when she was training up to 1000 power level. So no I don't think Sophie and Maya are masqued saiyans, and I have no idea where you got that idea, I just don't know for sure that their training was from what we would consider a master of any level, from a human, or if it was even for the purpose of fighting and not something like staying in shape. We do see Sophie get her ass handed to her by some rando bully that very same chapter and she said had previous training so...
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- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
This is entirely behind the point. We know martial arts are in fact learned with some level of frequency greater than 0 by non-saiyans, per se. Not all martial artists on Garenhuld are Saiyans. Maybe all the masters, though I seriously doubt it, but martial arts is not so thoroughly antithetical to Garenhulders that they would never learn it prior to us revealing ki, which is the only I see to reconcile your supposition that the Garenhulders would understand the practice of martial arts to be inherently experimental and tinkery.
Which is not plausible given eg architecture also being that here on Earth and explicitly not on Garenhuld. Like, your logic here could be just as easily applied to architecture, engineering, art, and stortytelling. Either you object essentially wholesale to Garenhulder culture as presented, or you accept that martial arts is not actually in any relevant fundamental different from the collective pile of other fields the Garenhulders flatly reject innovative behaviors occuring at any but the most glacial pace.
ElleonXan
Self-Proclaimed King of the Dumpster Fires
- Location
- USA
So before I begin, let me just say that this is based solely on my interpretation of the Garenhulder Innovation interlude and the arguments and WoG about the same subject. I don't deny that it is only a single person's interpretation and that others might have entirely different takeaways... nor that my takeaway is much more than likely NOT what our illustrious author was trying to convey. Also, I'm pretty loopy because of cold medicine, so I may not be thinking straight at the moment. That being said, I feel like this needs to be posted, if only to give another view on the subject. If I offend anyone, my apologies in advance.
So I finally got around to catching up on the thread, and all I can say is: WTF is up with that last informational interlude?
I mean, in the space of one "chapter" we have gone from an odd but still acceptable idea (that Garenhulders are a race vehemently opposed to innovation themselves yet able to accept good ideas that are handed to them) to an extremely implausible, nigh SoD-breaking one (that Garenhulders are phobic about the unknown yet are apparently so gullible that they literally make it a non-issue... amongst other things.)
Now before I start my arguments, I'd like to say that in spite of how ridiculous the premise of the latest threadmark seems to me, the prose surrounding it is (as always) amazing. The writing of this quest is still top notch, and I am enjoying reading it immensely. That being said, the major thoughts, as I see them, brought up in the interlude are very hard to swallow, if taken all together.
1. That Garenhulders have an extreme phobia of the Unknown that may surpass a cultural distaste and veer into the realms of supernatural, if the implications I'm reading in the crossed out text is true.
2. That Garenhulders are an extremely incurious and sheltered people, if the implications that even after having your families live on a farm for generations that the CITY is less unknown is true. (Because if you were living on a farm and didn't know more about the surrounding land (i.e. your workspace) than about some nebulous city that is so far away that without a train you couldn't work there, then... Well you get the point.)
3. In conjunction with (1) and (2), that Garenhulders are so attached to the status quo that they would rather live with faulty or inferior products or equipment than accept something superior that is new.
4. That (for the most part) Garenhulders learn plans and schematics, rather than techniques and the science behind things.
5. Somehow, in spite of (4) they somehow made it to the freakin' medieval age. I mean who was that psychotic renegade who said: "that weird looking metalic rock stuff? Let's dig that up and melt it down, then turn it into tools"? And how many of those psychotic renegades were burned at the stake as witches until one managed to get through to the collective subconscious?
6. That in spite of all of this terror of the unknown, Garenhulders are extremely trusting of some else's research... I mean, they seem to accept new technologies better than our own medieval world did, in spite of being quantifiably "terrified of the unknown".
7. In conjunction with (6), that Garenhulders are so innately gullible that (almost literally) all it takes to avert their disgust at new technology is to say "nuh uh, it's really old, I swear."
8. That (and here's the bit that blows it for me) in spite of the above points, all we've seen so far of the culture has resembled base human standard
In short, the image that I got was of a race of people that are untrusting of anything that hasn't been scientifically quantified into a precise formula or schematic, yet are so terrified of the unknown that the very thought of trying to do said science to quantify such is anathemic to them. Not, I hasten to add, that that's a bad idea. It could be very interesting as one of the alien races that the heroes of a star trek series visited in an episode. (And with how many of THOSE there are, they very well might have been.) But as A) a race we've been in contact with for a while now, and B) as a race that seems human in cultural norms so far, it does seem a little farfetched.
For example, take what I expect is a very taboo subject on Garenhuld: science.
Science is, at its core, the act of making the unknown known. Boom, there you are, ran into the supernatural geas against the unknown. But let's suspend that for the sake of the argument and say that science is the act of figuring out why things do what they do. When we look at the interlude again, it would seem like science is still taboo. The way Garenhulders approach innovation has NOTHING to do with science. It can't, because if they really understood the underlying principles then they could make changes to things without being absolutely terrified of any change being a journey into the unknown. After all, by definition if you know something then it isnt unknown
And while yes, we as kids wouldn't see a lot of this, this would trickle down to us as well. Take for instance: schools.
First off, would schools as we know them even exist? I'd assume that, given y'know medieval era, that like the medieval era most parents would teach their kids occupational training at home. And since we know that the unknown fear geas extends past just technology and into other areas, how would... oh yeah, extremely gullible... never mind, question retracted.
But also, schools would be quite different on this world. It's quite likely that curiosity would actively be quashed, as curiosity leads into the unknown. Science would probably be non-existent as, like I intimated above, if science were any sort of thing on Garenhuld then they'd at least have basic ideas of the underlying principles of their technology and tweaking/modifying/fixing it wouldn't be such a big scary unknown to them. The arts, or at least the creative portions of them, would probably be downplayed, as creativity is related to curiosity which leads to the unknown which is BAD. The three R's (Reading, wRiting, and aRithmetic) would probably be king, with other maths as the option I could see going either way. (On one hand, math is a solid Known, but on the other it is also relates to science, which brings in the Unknown and Bad Things.) Social Studies should be about the same.
Sorry to jump tracks here for a minute, but something that was in the back of my mind just hit me. We were told before that while Garenhulders are bad at innovation they're good at adapting to new technology... but this interlude seems to change that up to say that they're good at adapting to new machines, schematics and blueprints, not technology itself. To illustrate, here's humans in comparison to how this interlude seems to portray Garenhuldens:
In an allegorical example used earlier, much was said about bread, ham, and ham sandwiches. To clarify, I don't see ham sandwiches to be the technology in that example, but rather to be an application of that technology. The technology itself would be "covering the meat on both top and bottom on bread".
Humans, after being told about the ham sandwich, would go "hey, this covering the top and bottom with bread technology is pretty great" and then proceed to see what else that technology could apply to: chicken sandwiches, egg salad sandwiches, roast beef sandwiches, bacon, lettuce, and tomato sandwiches, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. They'd also tweak it to their liking: ham sandwiches with wheat bread, ham sandwiches with white bread, ham sandwiches with melted cheese, ham sandwiches with mayo and lettuce.
Garenhulders, on the other hand, seem like they'd be introduced to the ham sandwiches, say "this ham sandwich technology is pretty great" and eat nothing but ham sandwiches with whatever bread it was originally discovered with until some crazy radical gets it in their head to do a ten year study to prove that putting mayo on the ham sandwich won't, in fact, cause a megaton explosion that wipes out a city. And heaven help the idiot who gets it in his head to try putting chicken instead of ham on the sandwich: he lost his job, family, and is currently locked up in the local mental institution for the incurably insane... for his own safety, of course.
But to step out of that absurd allegory and into something that actually makes a bit more sense. Give humans an engine, drive shaft, axles, wheels, a set of controls for them and a frame to hold everything and they'll make any nimber of cars, trucks, vans and busses to use the technology. That's adapting the technology. They'll also figure out how to apply an aerodynamic body to decrease gas costs or design a trailer so that the vehicle can haul more. That's innovation.
The Garenhulders, on the other hand... hoo boy! Not only would they be unable to create the aerodynamic body or trailer (innovate) but they would be unable to even create any variety of vehicles. (Adapt the technology) what's more, from what we're told I doubt they'd even be able to use any to the technology in any other application either, (adopting the technology) but... honestly, it seems all they'd be able to do is just build endless copies of the exact same one car. (Following the blueprints.)
You know what else that sounds like? Robots. New theory: the Garenhuldens are bio-androids somewhat like Cell, but made from an amalgamation of the universe's most boring humanoid species and incredibly shodily programmed by someone who spent WAY too much time worrying about grey goo scenarios.
I'm getting pretty tired, so I'll try to condense what I still have to say. The things we've seen so far in the story and previous AN's paint the picture of a race of otherwise normal humans that are innovation-phobic but quick to adapt any technologhy they were otherwise given... incurious, maybe, but probably able to be slotted anywhere in the modern world with minimal trouble. The interlude and some of the arguments after paint the picture of a race of neurotic xenophobes who appear practically incapable of adapting technology at all yet are so gullible that their neuroses can be tricked into not working just because someone says so... and would take one look at the modern world, see how fast technology is advancing, and would probably commit mass suicide as the "easier, less painful option."
Honestly, as much as I hate to jump on a sinking boat, I kinda have to agree (up to a certain point) with @Simon_Jester: I don't see how this species could have any sort of modern society, as there's only so many times you can use the ancient technology excuse before even the most gullible person starts to suspect you're actually doing *le gasp* innovation. And since practically everything has to come from the saiyans, I'm pretty sure they probably passed that limit ages ago.
Or... that's what I would say if I hadn't just remembered that this is the Dragon Ball universe which means it's also technically and tangentially the Dr. Slump universe and thus BS is BS and I should probably just shut my mouth and enjoy the story.
Tl;dr: In an attempt to expand on the Garenhuld society zeitgeist, our illustrious author had taken it to such an extreme level that my SoD was stretching pretty thin, but then I remembered that the Dragon Ball Extended Universe is total BS and invalidated my own argument, making the entire time it took me to write this post entirely pointless. And again, apologies for any abrasive BS here. I'm not TRYING to piss anyone off, honestly.
So I finally got around to catching up on the thread, and all I can say is: WTF is up with that last informational interlude?
I mean, in the space of one "chapter" we have gone from an odd but still acceptable idea (that Garenhulders are a race vehemently opposed to innovation themselves yet able to accept good ideas that are handed to them) to an extremely implausible, nigh SoD-breaking one (that Garenhulders are phobic about the unknown yet are apparently so gullible that they literally make it a non-issue... amongst other things.)
Now before I start my arguments, I'd like to say that in spite of how ridiculous the premise of the latest threadmark seems to me, the prose surrounding it is (as always) amazing. The writing of this quest is still top notch, and I am enjoying reading it immensely. That being said, the major thoughts, as I see them, brought up in the interlude are very hard to swallow, if taken all together.
1. That Garenhulders have an extreme phobia of the Unknown that may surpass a cultural distaste and veer into the realms of supernatural, if the implications I'm reading in the crossed out text is true.
2. That Garenhulders are an extremely incurious and sheltered people, if the implications that even after having your families live on a farm for generations that the CITY is less unknown is true. (Because if you were living on a farm and didn't know more about the surrounding land (i.e. your workspace) than about some nebulous city that is so far away that without a train you couldn't work there, then... Well you get the point.)
3. In conjunction with (1) and (2), that Garenhulders are so attached to the status quo that they would rather live with faulty or inferior products or equipment than accept something superior that is new.
4. That (for the most part) Garenhulders learn plans and schematics, rather than techniques and the science behind things.
5. Somehow, in spite of (4) they somehow made it to the freakin' medieval age. I mean who was that psychotic renegade who said: "that weird looking metalic rock stuff? Let's dig that up and melt it down, then turn it into tools"? And how many of those psychotic renegades were burned at the stake as witches until one managed to get through to the collective subconscious?
6. That in spite of all of this terror of the unknown, Garenhulders are extremely trusting of some else's research... I mean, they seem to accept new technologies better than our own medieval world did, in spite of being quantifiably "terrified of the unknown".
7. In conjunction with (6), that Garenhulders are so innately gullible that (almost literally) all it takes to avert their disgust at new technology is to say "nuh uh, it's really old, I swear."
8. That (and here's the bit that blows it for me) in spite of the above points, all we've seen so far of the culture has resembled base human standard
In short, the image that I got was of a race of people that are untrusting of anything that hasn't been scientifically quantified into a precise formula or schematic, yet are so terrified of the unknown that the very thought of trying to do said science to quantify such is anathemic to them. Not, I hasten to add, that that's a bad idea. It could be very interesting as one of the alien races that the heroes of a star trek series visited in an episode. (And with how many of THOSE there are, they very well might have been.) But as A) a race we've been in contact with for a while now, and B) as a race that seems human in cultural norms so far, it does seem a little farfetched.
For example, take what I expect is a very taboo subject on Garenhuld: science.
Science is, at its core, the act of making the unknown known. Boom, there you are, ran into the supernatural geas against the unknown. But let's suspend that for the sake of the argument and say that science is the act of figuring out why things do what they do. When we look at the interlude again, it would seem like science is still taboo. The way Garenhulders approach innovation has NOTHING to do with science. It can't, because if they really understood the underlying principles then they could make changes to things without being absolutely terrified of any change being a journey into the unknown. After all, by definition if you know something then it isnt unknown
And while yes, we as kids wouldn't see a lot of this, this would trickle down to us as well. Take for instance: schools.
First off, would schools as we know them even exist? I'd assume that, given y'know medieval era, that like the medieval era most parents would teach their kids occupational training at home. And since we know that the unknown fear geas extends past just technology and into other areas, how would... oh yeah, extremely gullible... never mind, question retracted.
But also, schools would be quite different on this world. It's quite likely that curiosity would actively be quashed, as curiosity leads into the unknown. Science would probably be non-existent as, like I intimated above, if science were any sort of thing on Garenhuld then they'd at least have basic ideas of the underlying principles of their technology and tweaking/modifying/fixing it wouldn't be such a big scary unknown to them. The arts, or at least the creative portions of them, would probably be downplayed, as creativity is related to curiosity which leads to the unknown which is BAD. The three R's (Reading, wRiting, and aRithmetic) would probably be king, with other maths as the option I could see going either way. (On one hand, math is a solid Known, but on the other it is also relates to science, which brings in the Unknown and Bad Things.) Social Studies should be about the same.
Sorry to jump tracks here for a minute, but something that was in the back of my mind just hit me. We were told before that while Garenhulders are bad at innovation they're good at adapting to new technology... but this interlude seems to change that up to say that they're good at adapting to new machines, schematics and blueprints, not technology itself. To illustrate, here's humans in comparison to how this interlude seems to portray Garenhuldens:
In an allegorical example used earlier, much was said about bread, ham, and ham sandwiches. To clarify, I don't see ham sandwiches to be the technology in that example, but rather to be an application of that technology. The technology itself would be "covering the meat on both top and bottom on bread".
Humans, after being told about the ham sandwich, would go "hey, this covering the top and bottom with bread technology is pretty great" and then proceed to see what else that technology could apply to: chicken sandwiches, egg salad sandwiches, roast beef sandwiches, bacon, lettuce, and tomato sandwiches, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. They'd also tweak it to their liking: ham sandwiches with wheat bread, ham sandwiches with white bread, ham sandwiches with melted cheese, ham sandwiches with mayo and lettuce.
Garenhulders, on the other hand, seem like they'd be introduced to the ham sandwiches, say "this ham sandwich technology is pretty great" and eat nothing but ham sandwiches with whatever bread it was originally discovered with until some crazy radical gets it in their head to do a ten year study to prove that putting mayo on the ham sandwich won't, in fact, cause a megaton explosion that wipes out a city. And heaven help the idiot who gets it in his head to try putting chicken instead of ham on the sandwich: he lost his job, family, and is currently locked up in the local mental institution for the incurably insane... for his own safety, of course.
But to step out of that absurd allegory and into something that actually makes a bit more sense. Give humans an engine, drive shaft, axles, wheels, a set of controls for them and a frame to hold everything and they'll make any nimber of cars, trucks, vans and busses to use the technology. That's adapting the technology. They'll also figure out how to apply an aerodynamic body to decrease gas costs or design a trailer so that the vehicle can haul more. That's innovation.
The Garenhulders, on the other hand... hoo boy! Not only would they be unable to create the aerodynamic body or trailer (innovate) but they would be unable to even create any variety of vehicles. (Adapt the technology) what's more, from what we're told I doubt they'd even be able to use any to the technology in any other application either, (adopting the technology) but... honestly, it seems all they'd be able to do is just build endless copies of the exact same one car. (Following the blueprints.)
You know what else that sounds like? Robots. New theory: the Garenhuldens are bio-androids somewhat like Cell, but made from an amalgamation of the universe's most boring humanoid species and incredibly shodily programmed by someone who spent WAY too much time worrying about grey goo scenarios.
I'm getting pretty tired, so I'll try to condense what I still have to say. The things we've seen so far in the story and previous AN's paint the picture of a race of otherwise normal humans that are innovation-phobic but quick to adapt any technologhy they were otherwise given... incurious, maybe, but probably able to be slotted anywhere in the modern world with minimal trouble. The interlude and some of the arguments after paint the picture of a race of neurotic xenophobes who appear practically incapable of adapting technology at all yet are so gullible that their neuroses can be tricked into not working just because someone says so... and would take one look at the modern world, see how fast technology is advancing, and would probably commit mass suicide as the "easier, less painful option."
Honestly, as much as I hate to jump on a sinking boat, I kinda have to agree (up to a certain point) with @Simon_Jester: I don't see how this species could have any sort of modern society, as there's only so many times you can use the ancient technology excuse before even the most gullible person starts to suspect you're actually doing *le gasp* innovation. And since practically everything has to come from the saiyans, I'm pretty sure they probably passed that limit ages ago.
Or... that's what I would say if I hadn't just remembered that this is the Dragon Ball universe which means it's also technically and tangentially the Dr. Slump universe and thus BS is BS and I should probably just shut my mouth and enjoy the story.
Tl;dr: In an attempt to expand on the Garenhuld society zeitgeist, our illustrious author had taken it to such an extreme level that my SoD was stretching pretty thin, but then I remembered that the Dragon Ball Extended Universe is total BS and invalidated my own argument, making the entire time it took me to write this post entirely pointless. And again, apologies for any abrasive BS here. I'm not TRYING to piss anyone off, honestly.
Actually, as has been explained, they do understand how things work, and if it wasn't for the phobia crippling them, they'd be just as capable of applying such things as we are. But instead, despite knowing that it'd work, they irrationally fear that it won't.
And secondly, the phobia seems to only really applies to 1) the wilderness and 2) technology. They show more willingness to innovate when it comes to non-technology, though they're still a bit stuffy by our standards simply due to habit. With them having an especially long, rich and highly respected artistic culture being a fact that's come up previously.
The bigger issue was honestly bringing the subject back up again.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The key point you missed that makes this more viable is that what they consider Unknown and phobia-inducing isn't what is unknown to them personally, it's what is unknown to anyone. Like, Garenhulders are more phobic about a patch of wild untamed land than about a suburb, because someone lives in the suburb and it is in some sense Known, while no one lives in the wilderness and Knows it.
It's not a fear of changing one's personal life experiences, it's a herd instinct. Pretty clearly designed to herd Garenhulders into the tightest possible concentrations of population insofar as it is physically possible for them to do so.
For all we know, they had pretty much the same Iron Age technology when whatever curse or other effect created the phobia was laid. We have no reason to assume the Garenhulders evolved with this kind of mindset, and some good reasons to think they didn't.
Because they aren't afraid of change, they're afraid of untried things. Of things that no person has directly experienced and that no person is keeping an eye on.
If someone else tried a thing, and it works, the fear simply does not exist, or evaporates rapidly. If someone else is living in a place, watching it, living there does not trigger the phobia, or does so to a lesser and lesser degree as population density rises. It's on an on-off switch. Because it is not a well-integrated part of Garenhulder mentality, it is literally a phobia imposed on them by some weird mind control satellite or magical curse or something.
Some of this is true (Garenhulder schools actively quash curiosity). Part of it's irrelevant because every single Garenhulder feels the phobia. The Garenhulders don't actually have to try very hard to stop other Garenhulders from meddling with the unknown. That's for the same reasons that in real life we don't actually have to try very hard to stop other people from deliberately drinking spoiled milk. Spoiled milk tastes terrible, no one wants to drink it.
Very few Garenhulders actually want to change the physical design of a thing without the same kind of superstitious shivery "but what if it goes wrong in some unimaginable and totally ridiculous way" fear that all the others feel.
That being said, I suspect that Garenhulder "science class" is overwhelmingly designed around teaching well known facts about technology and how to use it, or about medicine and how to stay healthy. And, perhaps not least, to reassure growing Garenhulder children that the strange whizzing and whirring technological marvels around them are safe and Known.
Science class involves more book reports and memorization, and fewer cute little backboard projects where you design experiments, in other words.
And I've given the matter at least a bit of thought because I wrote Mr. Carpenter, the character in In the Shadow of Her Wings, as a science teacher.
That's what Poptart has been saying, and Poptart has attributed to the saiyan Exiles ALL the work of designing ALL the variety of vehicles. I'm dubious because I know roughly how much work goes into designing cars, and there just don't seem to be enough Exiles to go around... but yes, Poptart agrees with you on this part.
Okay I kind of like this.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
This was getting pretty heated when last it was dropped, folks. Let's let it die.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
[pinches nose, sighs]
Okay.
I just... I miss being able to feel right writing Garenhulder viewpoint characters.
Okay.
I just... I miss being able to feel right writing Garenhulder viewpoint characters.
Ridiculously Average Guy
I'm you, but stronger
- Location
-
So, with Garenhulder's learning of ki, how soon before we start seeing a batman expy?
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I don't think he counts as Batman if he has ki.
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
Only out of the corner of your eye.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
If Jaffur had that trick he likely could have beat his Dad that time.
Which is weird, because it seems to just be a less sophisticated transitional form of his technique, which suggests that he should be able to access it. He certainly didn't mind resorting to SSJ Kaio-Ken, which provides similar boosts at much higher apparent expense. Perhaps he knows something about the trick and there is a very good reason he doesn't use it?
There's no indication about how easy the trick actually is, and it's quite possibly that Jaffur's techniques have benefits this doesn't.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
It is not a transitional state. Kakara commented they are different methods. Jaffur's compresses the ki and relies in unholy control to make it feel almost liquid and Tabe's relies on accessing tge tank faster.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
For one thing, IIRC there's no indication Jaffur's trick is a drain on his stamina, it just requires good Ki Control.
- Location
- Somewhere I shouldn't be
To be fair, Jaffur's sacrifices to the dice gods, which were most pleasing, mean we have no real idea how his stamina is, or how it's affected by anything.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Apparently their offering of choose is suffering which Jaffur provided in large amounts.
- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Taka has the ability to tap warrior's skills (due to a magic doohickey). I used it to get Jaffur's stuff at one point. After a bit of fighting, @PoptartProdigy informed me that it is hell on your stamina if you haven't gotten physically used to it. Or something to that effect, I may be misremembering details, however- not at my best.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Well Jaffur has had years now to refine his fighting style. A large lack of sparing partners and trainers so I don't think he will have been learning anything new, but you can bet that he can really use what he has.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yes, but it has the huge disadvantage of burning out quickly. Jaffur's trick doesn't, at least not when Jaffur's the one using it.
Remember that Jaffur's greatest moment was defeating Berra, using the Kaio-Ken x10 as a base super saiyan to match or exceed Berra's power level. If he'd been using Tabe's Overdrive trick to accomplish the same goal, he almost certainly would have burned out too fast to win the battle. Of course, using the Kaio-Ken means you take organic damage instead of just exhausting yourself, but it's still... problematic.
Jaffur already had all the pieces in place to beat Lord Vegeta- he could stack the Kaio-Ken x10 with base super saiyan. He just needed to be a super saiyan. But once that happened, events started chaining into one another faster than he could control. He had no more than a few days before the Sealing. For all we know, if he'd been given a few more weeks, he'd have beaten his father in a straight fight, the same way he beat Berra.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Shit, been away so long I can't even remember if I've already done this. Vote Closed.
[X][FACE] ...you are hereditary nobility, your grandmother is the prior sitting Lady, your father is the sitting Lord, and you will yourself become Lady some day.
[X][ROLE] ...actively address the Congress. Your blog posts over the course of the year so far have achieved widespread recognition, your continued attendance at school has done a lot to normalize you in the public view, and you have a decent amount of capital. Plus, you're a thirteen-year-old girl; even by virtue of not being able to take you seriously, people won't think, "threat," when they look at you.
Moving on!
Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - Dragon Ball: After the End | Page 848 | Sufficient Velocity [Posts: 21201-21599]
##### NetTally 1.9.8
Task: FACE
[X][FACE] ...you are hereditary nobility, your grandmother is the prior sitting Lady, your father is the sitting Lord, and you will yourself become Lady some day.
No. of Votes: 14
[X ][FACE] ...your family is a traditionally influential one, and your father in particular possesses an outright leadership position over roughly half your population.
No. of Votes: 8
[X][FACE] Write In: ...you and your father fall somewhere between hereditary nobility and papacy. Chosen via Seer, you are the borderline worshiped leaders of your people.
No. of Votes: 1
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: ROLE
[X][ROLE] ...actively address the Congress. Your blog posts over the course of the year so far have achieved widespread recognition, your continued attendance at school has done a lot to normalize you in the public view, and you have a decent amount of capital. Plus, you're a thirteen-year-old girl; even by virtue of not being able to take you seriously, people won't think, "threat," when they look at you.
No. of Votes: 16
[X][ROLE] ...answer any questions directed to you. You have no address planned, but you will be prepared to field any questions they ask. Better to keep the focus on your father, but there's no reason to decline all questions.
No. of Votes: 8
Total No. of Voters: 24
##### NetTally 1.9.8
Task: FACE
[X][FACE] ...you are hereditary nobility, your grandmother is the prior sitting Lady, your father is the sitting Lord, and you will yourself become Lady some day.
No. of Votes: 14
[X ][FACE] ...your family is a traditionally influential one, and your father in particular possesses an outright leadership position over roughly half your population.
No. of Votes: 8
[X][FACE] Write In: ...you and your father fall somewhere between hereditary nobility and papacy. Chosen via Seer, you are the borderline worshiped leaders of your people.
No. of Votes: 1
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: ROLE
[X][ROLE] ...actively address the Congress. Your blog posts over the course of the year so far have achieved widespread recognition, your continued attendance at school has done a lot to normalize you in the public view, and you have a decent amount of capital. Plus, you're a thirteen-year-old girl; even by virtue of not being able to take you seriously, people won't think, "threat," when they look at you.
No. of Votes: 16
[X][ROLE] ...answer any questions directed to you. You have no address planned, but you will be prepared to field any questions they ask. Better to keep the focus on your father, but there's no reason to decline all questions.
No. of Votes: 8
Total No. of Voters: 24
[X][FACE] ...you are hereditary nobility, your grandmother is the prior sitting Lady, your father is the sitting Lord, and you will yourself become Lady some day.
[X][ROLE] ...actively address the Congress. Your blog posts over the course of the year so far have achieved widespread recognition, your continued attendance at school has done a lot to normalize you in the public view, and you have a decent amount of capital. Plus, you're a thirteen-year-old girl; even by virtue of not being able to take you seriously, people won't think, "threat," when they look at you.
Moving on!
You hadn't. I checked. Lead to a very late vote turn-around.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Always fascinating when that happens.
Alright, writing! And the title for the upcoming update is: "Out of My Control." See ya soon, folks!