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Dragon Ball: After the End

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Hope we get a chance to ask them about Valentine later on. Jaffur despises him, but if he kills him, he'll be killing his brother's dad, and Jaron might have no problems with him.
What a messy situation.
 
plotvitalnpc said:
Makes sense. You'd have to switch to 'two lords of Goku-Vegeta' if it did happen, 'cause there's no way you're dividing those names up in any rational manner afterwards.
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I don't think that rationally follows, actually. The Scions are already selected by a process of unknown criterion but that does not include 'firstborn gets it automatically', it would, in principle, from what we know, be possible for the lord and lady of Goku and Vegeta to marry and then from among their kids have the Scions for Vegeta and Goku selected.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Who the heck is 'everyone?'

Lailoken has devised one of his usual Brilliant Plans along these lines and it has fairly minimal support.

Aside from that, just about all we have is variations on people who want to roleplay Kakara's preference for non-killing over killing, even if that means standing up for her principles in front of Jaffur. Sure, the primary voice behind the "let's smuggle Dandeer away into hiding" is very loud, but that doesn't mean he represents "everyone."

Me, I'm mostly just in favor of trying to persuade Jaffur/Jaron out of it, because Kakara would try, and because with her ridiculous Communications check she just might have some chance of success.

Because this is about them, it's Vegetan jurisdiction and all... but that doesn't mean that Kakara, Jaffur's single most valuable ally, doesn't have a right to at least try to convince him of things.

Because not all of us wanted what actually happened, so please stop acting as though we did.
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"The rest of our lives protecting her" applies to every plan which saves her life except mine, because everybody wants her dead and even full forgiveness and a pardon from all the royals won't change that. She wants to let her be killed and be done with it. She's complaining about your faction's insistence on trying to insert Kakara in any way, not my attempt to have a backup option when your faction wins over our shared objections that we should just cleanly end this whole thing as fast as possible without futile roleplay gestures which sabotage critical relationships.
 
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Lailoken said:
"The rest of our lives protecting her" applies to every plan which saves her life except mine, because everybody wants her dead and even full forgiveness and a pardon from all the royals won't change that. He wants to let her be killed and be done with it. He's complaining about your faction's insistence on trying to insert Kakara in any way, not my attempt to have a backup option when your faction wins over our shared objections that we should just cleanly end this whole thing as fast as possible without futile roleplay gestures which sabotage critical relationships.
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We are trying to protect her mostly for role play reasons. We expect to fail. We just feel like we should put in a effort.
 
Lailoken said:
"The rest of our lives protecting her" applies to every plan which saves her life except mine, because everybody wants her dead and even full forgiveness and a pardon from all the royals won't change that. He wants to let her be killed and be done with it. He's complaining about your faction's insistence on trying to insert Kakara in any way, not my attempt to have a backup option when your faction wins over our shared objections that we should just cleanly end this whole thing as fast as possible without futile roleplay gestures which sabotage critical relationships.
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Lunaryon is a woman, Lailo.
 
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PoptartProdigy said:
[X][DEATH] Suggest he hold off on that, at least temporarily. The official reason for the Sealing is that you were dangerously insane and violent. Avoid feeding into that.

[X][AFTER] Ask about that fight. Jaffur looked like he was barely straining when he blocked Jaron, but they were the same strength. What was that?
[X][AFTER] Clarify if Jaron is, in fact, a sorcerer as well.
[X][AFTER] Ask why the hug was (so very clearly) not okay.

Lunaryon is a woman, Lailo.
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Apologies. Post has been edited.
 
fictionfan said:
We are trying to protect her mostly for role play reasons. We expect to fail. We just feel like we should put in a effort.
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I won't say I expect to fail, but yeah, it's tiresome and condescending hearing people deciding they know what I want because of their own notions about why I did what I did, which they didn't consult me on beforehand.
 
I fully expect we have decent odds of succeeding. Talking people down from killing each other is literally what Kakara is built for.
 
Cariyaga said:
I fully expect we have decent odds of succeeding. Talking people down from killing each other is literally what Kakara is built for.
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Talking down a person? Possibly. Talking down the hundreds of thousands of people, including the one who proudly boasts about torturing children to death? If you can come up with that write-in that's probably worth an instant legendary skill ranking, a job as head White House speechwriter, and a Nobel Peace Prize.
 
Lailoken said:
Talking down a person? Possibly. Talking down the hundreds of thousands of people, including the one who proudly boasts about torturing children to death? If you can come up with that write-in that's probably worth an instant legendary skill ranking, a job as head White House speechwriter, and a Nobel Peace Prize.
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As it has been said several times before, we don't know if the Vegetan people want to kill her and even if they did, they have too much respect for the royal line to disobey an order if they forgive her life. It would be an issue of convincing those who would want her dead and can rouse the people: Jaffur, Jaron, Yammar and Apra. Jaffur and Jaron are the hardest ones; Yammar and Apra are more worried about stability and that is an in that can be used if you convince the children first because they have seen what the Talt punishment did to Vegeta and they don't want a repeat with the next generation. There are also other options like life imprisonment which allow for her to be punished without killing her and without faking her death.

I am not saying that we should go out of our way for her. Personally, I would be satisfied as long as it is not one of the boys that kills her since my main worry is having a Vegeta 2.0 in our hands.
 
Bakkasama said:
As it has been said several times before, we don't know if the Vegetan people want to kill her and even if they did, they have too much respect for the royal line to disobey an order if they forgive her life. It would be an issue of convincing those who would want her dead and can rouse the people: Jaffur, Jaron, Yammar and Apra. Jaffur and Jaron are the hardest ones; Yammar and Apra are more worried about stability and that is an in that can be used if you convince the children first because they have seen what the Talt punishment did to Vegeta and they don't want a repeat with the next generation. There are also other options like life imprisonment which allow for her to be punished without killing her and without faking her death.

I am not saying that we should go out of our way for her. Personally, I would be satisfied as long as it is not one of the boys that kills her since my main worry is having a Vegeta 2.0 in our hands.
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That likely would be an effective argument for Jaffur. Not becoming like his father would be a powerful motivation. However, I don't think Jaron remembers Vegeta Vegeta.
 
fictionfan said:
That likely would be an effective argument for Jaffur. Not becoming like his father would be a powerful motivation. However, I don't think Jaron remembers Vegeta Vegeta.
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Actually, this reminds me that it was confirmed that Jaffur's sister is a year younger than us. That means she should have been introduced to saiyan society and be old enough to remember both Jaffur and Vegeta and understand what the sealing is.
 
Bakkasama said:
Actually, this reminds me that it was confirmed that Jaffur's sister is a year younger than us. That means she should have been introduced to saiyan society and be old enough to remember both Jaffur and Vegeta and understand what the sealing is.
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I wonder if she is suffering having Dandeer as a mother as well?
 
Bakkasama said:
As it has been said several times before, we don't know if the Vegetan people want to kill her and even if they did, they have too much respect for the royal line to disobey an order if they forgive her life. It would be an issue of convincing those who would want her dead and can rouse the people: Jaffur, Jaron, Yammar and Apra. Jaffur and Jaron are the hardest ones; Yammar and Apra are more worried about stability and that is an in that can be used if you convince the children first because they have seen what the Talt punishment did to Vegeta and they don't want a repeat with the next generation. There are also other options like life imprisonment which allow for her to be punished without killing her and without faking her death.

I am not saying that we should go out of our way for her. Personally, I would be satisfied as long as it is not one of the boys that kills her since my main worry is having a Vegeta 2.0 in our hands.
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The entire clan is suffering a total collapse of civil order over this. The council certainly made it sound like an awful lot of Vegetans are upset by the lots of stability at least as much as the theological issues, and that was before things got worse. Then there are the Gokun who aren't happy about having been dragged into the other clan's mess. Then there are the people who don't care, but see an opportunity to undermine the central authority of a new ruler and thus increase their autonomy. Then there are the people who see an opportunity to dispose of a rival by framing them. There are a LOT of people who have suffered because of this and it only takes one lone actor to pop the squishy sorcerous in a fraction of a second.

Y'know a good way to ensure that the boys don't kill her without upsetting Kakara's relationship with them? Getting their permission to let somebody else do it before they get the chance.
 
Maybe we should ask if Jaffur managed to get Super Saiyan 2? There's no reason for him not to, I think.
 
fictionfan said:
We don't need their permission for that and it would not help even if we got it.
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We don't have any authority to interfere right now if somebody wants to torture her to death or hold her until they can as a gift to gain favor, the boys do have at least SOME authority in the same way that Kakara's suspended sentence carried weight despite her not having any official capacity, and even if they weren't true it would still help with the relationship with them because she did show respect for their express wishes and account for them ahead of time instead of totally disregarding them.
 
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Andres110 said:
Maybe we should ask if Jaffur managed to get Super Saiyan 2? There's no reason for him not to, I think.
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1. If he has not we don't need to feed him the idea. The seal might not stop SS2 from being sensed.
2. If he has it might be better if we don't know. The law is that all SS2s have a death order on them.
 
Lailoken said:
We don't have any authority to do it, the boys do have at least SOME authority in the same way that Kakara's suspended sentence carried weight despite her not having any official capacity, and even if they weren't true it would still help with the relationship with them because she did show respect for their express wishes and account for them ahead of time instead of totally disregarding them.
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You are talking about some random person doing it.
 
fictionfan said:
You are talking about some random person doing it.
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I am taking about a massive possibilty space containing many things, almost all of them bad. If some Senzu decides to torture her to death Kakara had no authority to say no. If a random nearby Vegetan decides to hold her down when it becomes known that Jaffur is being released until he can give her to Jaffur as a gift we have no authority to say no.
 
Lailoken said:
I am taking about a massive possibilty space containing many things, almost all of them bad. If some Senzu decides to torture her to death Kakara had no authority to say no. If a random nearby Vegetan decides to hold her down when it becomes known that Jaffur is being released until he can give her to Jaffur as a gift we have no authority to say no.
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We have as much athority as we need. We are always empowered to stop a crime in progress. Also who is going to say no to us in that situation?
 
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