Dragon Ball: After the End

[Lailoken]

Ok, I followed up to the bolded part but where the heck is that ss2 business coming from? I don't recall it being discussed on the thread, Jaffur made no mention of wanting it and nobody made mention of it among the conspiracy. The saiyans don't want anyone becoming SS2 either because of the cultural indoctrination of it being likely to attract the enemy. They are more likely to revolt and kill Jaffur if anyone tries it or mention it.

Closest I can think of it is Jaffur training endurance for Golden oozaru, which he can do because he can train all he wants while sealed.


Who want to fake her death? She wants her family and can't do that if she is faking her death. It s either convincing her sons not to kill her, imprison her or let them kill her. You are needlessly complicating things for a plan that was not discussed afaik.



They want to kill her themselves, it is unlikely to be necessary and even if it is we would probably vote not to.

Also, I don't mean to offend but... isn't your thing usually to propose the sociopatic solutions/reasoning that people can tell is a bad idea for normal people? I don't think if something you would apreaciate is something they would apreciate. We don't know them that much so I would probably say the same of any other player, though.

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The saiyans don't pursue SSJ2 because the wards can't take it. We don't know that any power training he does in here will translate to the real world, but we do know that ki can supercharge sorcery, and there has never been a sorcerer even a fraction of a fraction as powerful as Jaffur. Hence why he said, "I guess that's my job", in the last update. With him leading the way the saiyans might be able to reach outright godhood without alerting the enemy.


Nobody is going to convince Jaffur and Jaron not to kill her. Yammar, Vegeta, Jaffur, and Jaron are all going to insist on her death. Probably in ways which will require every single bean the Senzu have hoarded. The only way that might not happen is if they think she is already dead due to conflict during the kidnapping or suicide when she found out her plan had failed. If Kakara doesn't prepare to deceive her coconspirators there will be a crucial moment when we can afford no hesitation but know with total certainty that we are making a decision which will directly doom an abuse victim to death by hellish torture. I'm fine with that, but I strongly suspect that a lot of voters and perhaps even the character won't have the stomach when the time comes and will insist on trying some impromptu compromise which will end up only combining the worst of all options. Faking her death is their easy out of that, but we need to lay the groundwork because without some kind of legal and political cover it will be treason on the same order as the conspiracy itself, and this time with the entire world united in outrage against Kakara.


They are chronic abuse victims who have been simmering their hatred in solitary confinement for years on end to the point where one wants to "save" their own mother by "just" killing her before the other can get his hands on her. I daresay that their minds likely have vastly more in common with mine than anything "normal". Appreciation is the natural projection of their very clearly displayed mindsets.

"I am deadly serious about saving you from your living hell, but because I respect both your wishes and authority I want to make sure that everything I do is absolutely kosher with regards to you, so as a precaution I am asking for your clear and unambiguous permission ahead of time to do something which might be necessary to save you if it turns out to be."​

Respect, consideration, fidelity, hope. These are things even normal people appreciate.

If you find yourself needing to preface a statement with this, it is perhaps better to leave it unsaid.

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Thank you, but it really is fine. I openly self-identity as a sociopath in my tagline, though that is unfortunately still more aspirational than actual.

 

[Blonddude42]

Well the cluster fuck over in Rise is solved so I can now attempt to catch up here. I just want to say right now that Lailoken has a very good point about getting that formal permission from Jaffur and Jaron from what I've seen so far.

 

[Gore17]

Hey, folks, I'm reading through the discussion, and I wanted to clarify something: you all do remember that Dandeer wiping Jaron's memories of the night before the Sealing is not a secret, right?

That's why I dropped it in there so casually; Kakara already knows that Jaffur won't remember anything there (which is why I found it a bit odd that you all chose to ask about that, but I suppose you did get Jaffur to confirm that it sounded out of character for him). Him having no memories of that span of time is not suspicious.

Reading the comments, I'm not certain if people remember that or not; some make me think you all do, others make me think that you've forgotten.

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No, people remember, but they assume that it's a red-flag in-story to everyone, and a mark against Dandeer, much like it would be IRL. I think there's a cultural clash occurring.

Also, asking a) confirmed that Dandeer was telling the truth about a memory wipe, and b) confirmed that his current status didn't undo said memory wipe.

I mean, we've seen that his memories have physical representation inside this mental plane, and I remembered that Kakara would only remember her visits to Gohan during said visits, with Jaron currently demonstrating a similar thing(which I was fully expecting, the anger not so much). Not outside the realm of possibility he'd regained them.

 

[Langevin]

[X] Try to talk to Jaron to cool him down. Jaffur could probably use a break from it, and the shock of seeing you might snap Jaron out
[X] UNLIMITED HUG WORKS!
[X] ...Jaffur? Explain?
[X] Chat(Regarding the conspiracy working to free him, give as much detail as you can so they know who to trust, get anything they know that might help.)

 

[Lailoken]

[X] Ask their permission and a free, unilateral hand to deal with Dandeer and dispense justice as we deem necessary to resolve this and free them, explicitly up to and including killing her in cold blood. Get it said explicitly in full in the highest formal Vegeta vow by both with their full authority as aggrieved, son, acting family patron, scion, and acting lord.

No, people remember, but they assume that it's a red-flag in-story to everyone, and a mark against Dandeer, much like it would be IRL. I think there's a cultural clash occurring.

Also, asking a) confirmed that Dandeer was telling the truth about a memory wipe, and b) confirmed that his current status didn't undo said memory wipe.

I mean, we've seen that his memories have physical representation inside this mental plane, and I remembered that Kakara would only remember her visits to Gohan during said visits, with Jaron currently demonstrating a similar thing(which I was fully expecting, the anger not so much). Not outside the realm of possibility he'd regained them.

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I forgot

It's still suspicious as hell, but you're right that it's not new suspicious.

Still, we have secured pretty compelling testimony that he wouldn't have done that, which is supported by his endangering himself to spare a life the next day and the fact that as he currently is admitting he intends to mercy-kill her he doesn't have much reason to lie.

 

[Bakkasama]

I forgot

It's still suspicious as hell, but you're right that it's not new suspicious.

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Not really? Supposedly, he tried to kill her when he found out she sealed Vegeta. She erased his memory so that he wouldn't make a repeat of it when he woke up in the morning. It doesn't change the fact that she turned up on Berra's door with both arms broken and her left lung flattened and Jaffur being the most likely suspect since Vegeta was supposedly sealed while he slept after he "vented his frustrations on her".

Still, we have secured pretty compelling testimony that he wouldn't have done that,

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He thinks he wouldn't have done that. We don't know if that were the case in the heat of the momento... and we have seen how good Dandeer is at diplomacy. She could have had the most compelling argument in the world yet expected Jaffur to accept what it happened without giving him an explanation and wording things in the worst possible way just because he is her son.

Yammar, Vegeta, Jaffur, and Jaron are all going to insist on her death.

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We are not releasing Vegeta though? Even GMG thinks he is an asshole, nobody at the meeting actually wanted him released. Valentine is here to stay.

[X] Ask their permission and a free, unilateral hand to deal with Dandeer and dispense justice as we deem necessary to resolve this and free them, explicitly up to and including killing her in cold blood. Get it said explicitly in full in the highest formal Vegeta vow by both with their full authority as aggrieved, son, acting family patron, Scion, and acting Lord.

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Again, he doesn't have the authority for that. Even if you dismiss Dandeer as a regent, Yammar would be acting Lord and family patrón. The only way you could swing that is if you recognized Jaron as Jaffur's son and used that as a loophole to name him Lord. Even then, I doubt he would give it to us, since for all that we are trustworthy, we are Gokun. He would be better suited telling us to relay said authority to Raditz since Jaffur actually trusts him or Yammar since he is the Elder and we already told him he is part of the conspiracy.

 

[Okibruez]

That's fine. She deserves to die. Preventing her death will result in nothing good.

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Not going to lie, I'm not sure why we'd want to stop Jaffur from ending her. There's an ever growing list of reasons why her continued existence is a negative. This update hinted that Jaffur may not have tried to kill her at first, before the sealing. After that, and all else she's done?
I am entirely okay with just letting the woman get her well earned comeuppance.
Though In-Character, we'll probably need a better reason than that to just let nature take its course.

 

[PoptartProdigy]

No, people remember, but they assume that it's a red-flag in-story to everyone, and a mark against Dandeer, much like it would be IRL. I think there's a cultural clash occurring.

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Ah. No, in the story it's not so much a culture clash. Remember, the sequence of events Dandeer is describing is that she tells Jaffur what she did, he freaks out, beats her to hell, and tries to murder her, and she (unable to resist him conventionally) wipes his memory of what made him so mad and what he's doing and sends him to bed.

It's unconventional, but in-universe if it happened like she said it's a fairly clear-cut case of self-defense.

 

[Lailoken]

Perhaps I'm being a little unclear. We're asking for permission to kill her, and that's what he'll be thinking, but one of the reasons we're asking is that we will also be sneaking in permission to not kill her with the cover of that ambiguity just being a misunderstanding.

This is the perfect time and person to get that permission from. We're unlikely to get it from anyone else, or even from him when the emotions are not so acute or the timing more suspicious. If anyone here wants to even have the option of not killing her we need to do this.

It's also nice that it will immediately and drastically improve the relationship with both of them. Jaffur was rendered speachless the first time Kakara showed him formal respect and pledged to help him. Reinforcing that with specific, concrete details with both him and Jaron will be similarly compelling.

Not really? Supposedly, he tried to kill her when he found out she sealed Vegeta. She erased his memory so that he wouldn't make a repeat of it when he woke up in the morning. It doesn't change the fact that she turned up on Berra's door with both arms broken and her left lung flattened and Jaffur being the most likely suspect since Vegeta was supposedly sealed while he slept after he "vented his frustrations on her".


He thinks he wouldn't have done that. We don't know if that were the case in the heat of the momento... and we have seen how good Dandeer is at diplomacy. She could have had the most compelling argument in the world yet expected Jaffur to accept what it happened without giving him an explanation and wording things in the worst possible way just because he is her son.


We are not releasing Vegeta though? Even GMG thinks he is an asshole, nobody at the meeting actually wanted him released. Valentine is here to stay.



Again, he doesn't have the authority for that. Even if you dismiss Dandeer as a regent, Yammar would be acting Lord and family patrón. The only way you could swing that is if you recognized Jaron as Jaffur's son and used that as a loophole to name him Lord. Even then, I doubt he would give it to us, since for all that we are trustworthy, we are Gokun. He would be better suited telling us to relay said authority to Raditz since Jaffur actually trusts him or Yammar since he is the Elder and we already told him he is part of the conspiracy.

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-and if Berra refused her he would have woken up to find his father sealed and freaked out again. She needed to knock him out, but wiping his memory accomplished nothing legitimate.

The fact remains that he didn't believe he could have, and that is supported by his refusal to kill to defend himself in an even more heated moment the very next day, not to mention the fact that if he had wanted her dead she would be dead.

Releasing Vegeta isn't up to us. Everybody else was intent on breaking the seal before they ever knew Jaffur was still awake. From every dimension, and especially legal, if breaking Jaffur's seal was justified before anyone knew he was awake, Vegeta's goes along with it. The guy was a personal monster, but everybody agrees that he was both an effective and legitimate lord. There's no way we're going to be able to sell keeping him sealed.

I highly doubt that things are that cut and dried. There's no written constitution enforced by an independent court here. There's no hard line between law and politics. Legitimacy is what you can recursively get enough people to concede. Kakara had zero authority to suspend sentencing for publicly confessed treason at the council, but everyone accepted it anyway and even Berra said that it made things harder for him because just declaring her judgement invalid would have been politically costly in a way her never having made it wouldn't have been. All that matters is that Kakara can make a case that she believed that she had been granted authority, legal political and moral. She needs cover she and anyone who doesn't want to start a fight over the issue can hide behind, not a mathematical proof that she was absolutely correct. When we're talking about three kids, two tortured, all in an extreme and unprecedented situation, it's not hard to spin the result as, "Well, it shouldn't have been done that way and this shouldn't be taken as binding precedent, but it's already done and it would be a greater injustice to make a big deal about it now."

That's if she has cover. If she doesn't have anything but, "I decided that I knew better and screw everybody else", she'll have been helping a Vegetan felon fugitive escape justice for the highest of Vegetan crimes all while lying to everybody, including the Gokun authority. At that point they'll have no choice but to make an example of her. Even the Gokun would be outraged purely on principle. She'll have unilaterally committed a literal act of war.

 

[Mikeline]

Not going to lie, I'm not sure why we'd want to stop Jaffur from ending her. There's an ever growing list of reasons why her continued existence is a negative. This update hinted that Jaffur may not have tried to kill her at first, before the sealing. After that, and all else she's done?
I am entirely okay with just letting the woman get her well earned comeuppance.
Though In-Character, we'll probably need a better reason than that to just let nature take its course.

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I can't believe I of all people am saying this, but don't you think we might be taking this a wee bit too far? We're supposed to despite violence and killing, and while I know Kakara despises Dandeer with the fury of a thousand Suns, it's completely out of character to just shrug and go "Not my problem" and allow Jaron/Jaffur to murder his mom.
I despise Dandeer too, but shouldn't we find a better way? Imprisonment, some way to take away her powers?

 

[Lailoken]

I can't believe I of all people am saying this, but don't you think we might be taking this a wee bit too far? We're supposed to despite violence and killing, and while I know Kakara despises Dandeer with the fury of a thousand Suns, it's completely out of character to just shrug and go "Not my problem" and allow Jaron/Jaffur to murder his mom.
I despise Dandeer too, but shouldn't we find a better way? Imprisonment, some way to take away her powers?

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Then you'd better vote to get permission. We're not the ones who will make the decision, and everybody who might wants her dead dead dead. The only way she lives is if everybody believes she's already dead, and if we're going to make that happen safely we need cover.

 

[Mikeline]

L

Then you'd better vote to get permission. We're not the ones who will make the decision, and everybody who might wants her dead dead dead. The only way she lives is if everybody believes she's already dead, and if we're going to make that happen safely we need cover.

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Let me see if I understand your plan... you want to trick them into thinking we'll kill her, in order to get permission not to? You believe there is no way she can get out of this alive, due to the fact Lord Vegeta will likely also be freed, and proceed to go insane with rage and kill Dandeer, if the Vegetans or Jaron/Jaffur don't do it first.

...

[X] Ask their permission and a free, unilateral hand to deal with Dandeer and dispense justice as we deem necessary to resolve this and free them, explicitly up to and including killing her in cold blood. Get it said explicitly in full in the highest formal Vegeta vow by both with their full authority as aggrieved, son, acting family patron, scion, and acting lord.

 

[Ando Owen]

[X] ...Jaffur? Explain?
[X] Chat(Regarding the conspiracy working to free him, give as much detail as you can so they know who to trust,get anything they know that might help.)

I have been given the impression some people want to deal with the whole mess on their own, and maybe save/fake the death/exile Dandeer. There is no reason to do that, besides the forum's bad habit of needing to be in the center of every plot.

We share what we learn now to our conspiracy and we will have everyone gunning to unseal Jaffur. Jaffur is released afterwards, he will kill his mother, take a decision about his father, and become Lord Vegeta. The end of the mess.

Reconciliation? How can reconciliation be done when one is murderous and the other terrified and on the brink of another breakdown?
Saving Dandeer's life? You want to prevent Jaffur's revenge against a character we utterly loathe for no reason than ethics? That's OOC. (Word of God)
Faking her death? And what for? It would be weak and stupid. Would Dandeer want it, to live after everything that happened to her? How likely it is that she would go crazy after the newest breakdown and draw attention to her, ruining our efforts and having everyone pissed at us for nothing? It would be wrong and delusional. If we fake Dandeer's death because we are certain she would be killed otherwise, why should we even lift a finger for her?

Dandeer's fate belongs to Jaffur. We are not the victim, we are not the main spotlight of this arc, we don't have the final say. Our mission is to release Jaffur, to do anything more is ground for political scandal and further drama. You can't bring democracy to a different country and call that democracy.

No matter how fond of conversation we are, saiyans are all "might is right", we are considered a demigod because of our power. There is no argument to be made about legitimacy, justice or precedent. Dandeer was excommunicated for her actions but she still manages to rule. Vegeta abused his wife and his son, but no one spoke up because he was the lord until Dandeer took him out in his sleep.

Unless you can imagine Jaffur and Dandeer living in the same house in harmony in the near future, you have to dispose of one of the two, and we are not throwing Jaffur in a ditch.

 

[Bakkasama]

Then you'd better vote to get permission. We're not the ones who will make the decision, and everybody who might wants her dead dead dead. The only way she lives is if everybody believes she's already dead, and if we're going to make that happen safely we need cover.

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Let me see if I understand your plan... you want to trick them into thinking we'll kill her, in order to get permission not to? You believe there is no way she can get out of this alive, due to the fact Lord Vegeta will likely also be freed, and proceed to go insane with rage and kill Dandeer, if the Vegetans or Jaron/Jaffur don't do it first.

...

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Actually, from the way I understand it, he wants Jaffur to gives permission to pass judgement in any way we see fit and above anyone else in authority (which we are not sure he can actually do) given to understand that we want to kill her in order to, if at the last second decide we want to spare her, fake her death, deceiving everyone including Jaffur, Yammar, Apra, Raditz and Dandelor, when we don't have the resources to safely contain her without anyone knowing and when they would be extremely pissed if they found out because we would try to get out in a technicality, instead of just using said permission to condemn her to prison (which Yammar can overrule since he is the Elder) or simply faking her death without a complicated setup. Because asking for authority that should only belong to a Vegetan is apparently, the way to bring brownie points with Jaffur and Jaron, when we already swore to Jaffur we would do whatever it takes to free him, which includes, if necessary, killing his mother. That is, apparently, worth using one of the three conversation topics we have.

Mind, this is the same person who argued that Maya being either an hidden aborted baby sister of Jaffur despite being the same age as him or a hidden Talt despite their slaughter happening when Vegeta was a child was more likely tan her being a ki mutant that just happened to live in the same city as us. So of course needlessly complicated conspiracies are involved.

 

[Lailoken]

L

Let me see if I understand your plan... you want to trick them into thinking we'll kill her, in order to get permission not to? You believe there is no way she can get out of this alive, due to the fact Lord Vegeta will likely also be freed, and proceed to go insane with rage and kill Dandeer, if the Vegetans or Jaron/Jaffur don't do it first.

...

[X] Ask their permission and a free, unilateral hand to deal with Dandeer and dispense justice as we deem necessary to resolve this and free them, explicitly up to and including killing her in cold blood. Get it said explicitly in full in the highest formal Vegeta vow by both with their full authority as aggrieved, son, acting family patron, scion, and acting lord.

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Pretty much, or at least creating the opportunity for that.

Though I expect that Yammar and something like 90% of ordinary saiyans will also want her dead. Like, seriously, there's no way she's getting a pardon that sticks. She'd be mobbed to death on the courthouse steps if that's what it came to. At this point the only way to keep any one of over a hundred thousand people from murdering her is if everybody believes she's already dead.

 

[Okibruez]

[Snip]
Unless you can imagine Jaffur and Dandeer living in the same house in harmony in the near future, you have to dispose of one of the two, and we are not throwing Jaffur in a ditch.

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Basically that whole argument.
Kakara alone would, in character, have some moral compunctions about putting Dandeer to death, yes.
But it's not, in the end, her choice to make. Lord Vegeta, Jaffur, and Jaron are the ones whose choice it is, and Vegeta and Jaron will probably be gunning for 'fate worse than death'. Vegeta is abusive and insane, and Jaron is... well.
Jaffur just vouchesafed that he considers killing Dandeer quickly to be the 'kinder' outcome.

And OOC, if we orchestrate things so that she's exhiled and forgotten, do you think she'd thank us? She's basically ruled the Vegetan faction for years now, and clearly prefers to be in positions of power.
Dandeer stewing for years and then coming back with some ridiculous plan to doom and/or enslave everyone we know and love is entirely something I can see her doing.

There's an old Aesop's fable about a farmer saving a snake that was freezing to death, and in repayment the snake bit him and killed him. When asked why, the snake said 'you knew what I was when you saved me'.

So our only real options, OOC, are either A: She dies. B: She comes back in a few years and has to be put down for good like a rabid dog. C: We save her, and then somehow she turns over a new leaf, forgets this whole mess, and leaves all her dreams and life's work crushed and broken, and becomes someone else entirely.

Edit: And thinking about it, I'll also advocate the kill her quickly option because I can see someone suggesting using the same seal she did on her as punishment, and we can see how well it works on Jaffur.

 

[PoptartProdigy]

I generally don't involve myself in voting debates unless somebody says something that is flat-out wrong.

Saving Dandeer's life? You want to prevent Jaffur's revenge against a character we utterly loathe for no reason than ethics? That's OOC.

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This is one of those times. From Kakara's, "Protector," trait:

You gain heavy vote weighting against the use of lethal force on sapient beings, and will never default to it of your own will, even against Hated Enemies.

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You are correct, Ando, that the only reason to spare Dandeer's life is ethics. However, you are incorrect that said ethics would be OOC. They are quite explicitly IC, by the text of the Protector trait. Furthermore, while I wrote that trait explicitly by way of targeting Dandeer (your only current Hated Enemy), I decided that I should make it even more explicit in Dandeer's entry under the Enemies tab -- ironically, to prevent just this situation.

You no longer think that even she deserves death, but honestly you still plan to let Jaffur have her when the time comes. You're not sure you'd feel right about letting him kill her, but it's not like you abrogate the right to an opinion after handing her over

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Kakara is not down with handing Dandeer over for butchering, even if her first impulse is that Jaffur has the right to determine her fate. The text of the trait, and her relationship with Dandeer, both make it quite clear that Kakara feels Jaffur is the one who should decide Dandeer's fate, but that Kakara does not feel obligated to sit meekly by should he decide to sentence his mother to death.

Now, if you disagree with the idea that Dandeer should be allowed to live, you are well within your rights to do so, and my commentary on the matter is, simply, that I have none. However, if you're going to argue that it's OOC for Kakara to value Dandeer's life, I am very sorry, but you are at present incorrect.

 

[The Fourth Monado]

[X] Try to talk to Jaron to cool him down. Jaffur could probably use a break from it, and the shock of seeing you might snap Jaron out
[X] UNLIMITED HUG WORKS!
[X] ...Jaffur? Explain?
[X] Chat(Regarding the conspiracy working to free him, give as much detail as you can so they know who to trust, get anything they know that might help.)
​

 

[Mikeline]

This situation is a mess... on one hand, I don't want to just watch someone be thrown towards their death and do nothing, but what will we accomplish if we save her? Even if she survives she has no reasons to live, her Husband and Son(s) will despise her to the point of murder, and her family is all she has left at this point. She is likely to either try to kill herself or have her revenge on us, the ones who ruined her life.

I just don't know a way out of this. Kakara will be scarred either way.

 

[Ando Owen]

I have been given the impression Kakara hates Dandeer as much as it is physically able for a girl her age, and that the main reason why she didn't kill her on her own was that Jaffur has the first turn. I must have forgotten the bit about Kakara having doubts on the matter. I apologize.

@PoptartProdigy If your goal was to make Dandeer both a loathsome and pitiful character, then you did an excellent job, for I feel both hatred and pity thinking about her. The big problem here is that Dandeer is a traumatized paranoid wreck, her mind is shackled with fear and I wonder if she will ever be able to escape her own mindset.

She is currently living in a fleeting dream, a canvas flayed from her family's free will and painted with her delusions. What shreds of happiness and stability she relied on will be torn from her once Jaffur wakes up and from her backstory, I don't think she will react well, either to the situation or to Jaffur's fury. I can't see any likely way for Dandeer to leave the stage besides a corpse of a completely broken down woman.

 

[Marlin]

[X] UNLIMITED HUG WORKS!
[X] ...Jaffur? Explain?
[X] Chat(Regarding the possibility of killing Dandeer, and why that can't happen anytime soon. Everyone wants her blood, but right now Jaffur's Dad is a risk that is best dealt with by Dandeer. If Dandeer dies the trouble that might cause... We have no idea what would happen. As a seer Kakara can scry for that possibility. Only that would be one possibility, and merely delay things. Either way to deal with Dandeer Jaron can't make that choice. Politics keep people safe.)

 

[Lailoken]

Actually, from the way I understand it, he wants Jaffur to gives permission to pass judgement in any way we see fit and above anyone else in authority (which we are not sure he can actually do) given to understand that we want to kill her in order to, if at the last second decide we want to spare her, fake her death, deceiving everyone including Jaffur, Yammar, Apra, Raditz and Dandelor, when we don't have the resources to safely contain her without anyone knowing and when they would be extremely pissed if they found out because we would try to get out in a technicality, instead of just using said permission to condemn her to prison (which Yammar can overrule since he is the Elder) or simply faking her death without a complicated setup. Because asking for authority that should only belong to a Vegetan is apparently, the way to bring brownie points with Jaffur and Jaron, when we already swore to Jaffur we would do whatever it takes to free him, which includes, if necessary, killing his mother. That is, apparently, worth using one of the three conversation topics we have.

Mind, this is the same person who argued that Maya being either an hidden aborted baby sister of Jaffur despite being the same age as him or a hidden Talt despite their slaughter happening when Vegeta was a child was more likely tan her being a ki mutant that just happened to live in the same city as us. So of course needlessly complicated conspiracies are involved.

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I want the option, yes, because I've learned painfully that a lot of voters are soft and will show up at just the last second to screw up a great plan for being less than fairy tale comic book children's cartoon clan and perfect, especially when heavy vote weighting is involved. This approach is still a bad idea, but if the thread does end up deciding not to doom her to a fate worse than death this is the least bad way to go about it.

-and if it doesn't, hey, we've got an additional merit to deflect anyone unhappy with the way things went down what with the high treason coup and all and a free relationship upgrade with Jaffur and Jaron.

 

[Terrabrand]

Reading the comments, I'm not certain if people remember that or not; some make me think you all do, others make me think that you've forgotten.

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Clearly, Dandeer got the voterbase, too.

 

[PoptartProdigy]

I have been given the impression Kakara hates Dandeer as much as it is physically able for a girl her age, and that the main reason why she didn't kill her on her own was that Jaffur has the first turn. I must have forgotten the bit about Kakara having doubts on the matter. I apologize.

@PoptartProdigy If your goal was to make Dandeer both a loathsome and pitiful character, then you did an excellent job, for I feel both hatred and pity thinking about her. The big problem here is that Dandeer is a traumatized paranoid wreck, her mind is shackled with fear and I wonder if she will ever be able to escape her own mindset.

She is currently living in a fleeting dream, a canvas flayed from her family's free will and painted with her delusions. What shreds of happiness and stability she relied on will be torn from her once Jaffur wakes up and from her backstory, I don't think she will react well, either to the situation or to Jaffur's fury. I can't see any likely way for Dandeer to leave the stage besides a corpse of a completely broken down woman.

Click to shrink...

That was formerly how it was, but Kakara's viewpoint has matured, recently.

Dandeer is in fact based upon my own mother, although Jaron is based upon my cousin and Jaffur is in large part based on the real life personality behind boldtext. So I am pleased that I've managed to accurately portray the character.

 

[Okibruez]

I'm both well aware of the fact that Kakara's views on this are almost polar opposite of mine; I'd prefer to hand her over, dust off our hands, congratulate everyone for a good day's work, and get on with our life.
IC, Kakara will be torn up about it, possibly shaping her thinking for years to come, if Dandeer is killed.
Her thinking is very firmly that noone deserves to die, no matter what. (And Goku would be proud of her.) And she'll be very upset if Dandeer's family members get their way and kill her.

I'm just putting it on the table that I'm still going to vote towards Dandeer's death; Kakara will need to recognize the harshness of the world at some point, and Dandeer's fate represents a watershed event for the story, once we reach that point.
But that's a matter for future consideration, when we get to the point where Jaffur is actually free.

Edit: If Dandeer is based off your mother, @PoptartProdigy, then that's.... I dunno. I feel for you, I guess. Though I'm not sure I'm accurately understanding her; on one hand she seems power hungry and greedy, on the other, broken and insane with fear and pain.
I hesitate to ask if that's the gist because, you know, plot points and all, but still. Seems a bit messed up, either way.