- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
it lists a 'debut' for both the anime and manga version, thus is presumably in both.
Dragon Ball: After the End
Nix's Warden
Welcome to Hades
- Location
- United States
Yeah and then she turned into a crazy bitch who's done nothing but cause problems for the entire saiyan race. She's being treated Unreasonable because she IS Unreasonable. Unreasonable People don't fucking Seal away the original personality of their child, replace it with 'false' personality of their own design, and intend to NEVER restore their son to his original state.
So TLDR Fuck The Crazy Bitch.
- Location
- Australia
You are deluding yourself and wilfully ignoring information. We have been shown through an update and explicitly by PoptartProdigy himself that Dandeer will not listen to us - or even considering listening to us - because she is an adult and we are not. Your idea that she'd listen to us by treating her as reasonable is pure fantasy and represents an unjustifiable detachment from reality.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
Lets just hit all her trauma points, remind her of her abuser and trigger her PTSD then.
I'm sure that will have a much greater 'realistic' outcome.
and by Realistic, I mean shes gonna punch the planet.
You don't make people behave better by treating them by shit, no matter their delusions
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
By moving very swiftly into and out of the space in which they wish the doppleganger to appear.
- Location
- Australia
Warning For Marginal Behavior
Your delusion goes deeper than I thought. Not only do you believe in going completely against what we know from our own experiences and the very word of the GM herself, the only other possible path that you believe exists is also completely made up.
We are not going to walk up to Dandeer, turn Super Saiyan, and start telling her we're going to train her son whether she likes it or not. What the other option actually is is simply to ignore her, to not ask her for permission to train Jaron, and then simply train him. I have no idea what thought process led you to believe this would be anything else. I'll grow worried if that is what you think would "hit all her trauma points, remind her of her abuser, and trigger her PTSD", but I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that this is not what you think.
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Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
They don't behave better if you ignore their mistakes either, especially if their delusions tell them they are doing nothing wrong. The other option does not treat her like shit but it also does nothing to help her or give arguments to convince her.
He wasn't talking about the vote with that part but on the thread's attitude towards her and demonize her. As in, if we believe she is shit and are willing to disrespect her and treat her like shit, we might as well go all the way. He is using hyperbole to describe our general way to see her and what we wish we could do to her, not to describe the current situation.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I really hate it when people argue actions based on perceived thread attitude.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
To be fair, that explanation is what I perceive his argument was about. It could actually be just a misunderstanding and I reading too much into it.
Not that that does your statement any less valid.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I think that we all could stand to back off for just a minute or two. Getting a little heated here. Dandeer is of course an extremely divisive topic, but let's be civil.
Well, it's an awful action, but kudos on conning the GM out of an extra action, or even two! To have a quick meeting with her last time with none of the prep and multiple people involved took a full year-action. If we had decided to try this at the beginning of this year we would have been charged at least that much.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
SHHH YOU'LL GIVE IT AWAY
First this, then Endivan - we're clearing up some of the minor backlog!
- Location
- Somewhere
The thing is, people here spend quite some time thinking about the correct course of action, and analyzing every possible consequence for their actions, only for someone to dismiss their reasoning entirely.
It's rather infuriating for some, and understandably so. We should try to keep a cool head in these situations.
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Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Actually, we are rolling for her reaction and then we decide what to do with her answer, apparently. So if she says no we will probably be voting on whether we listen to her or not.
I believe the result of that one will depend on how infuriating she is in the scene.
There is a lot more in the plan than just asking her for permission.
BOOO! BOOO!
I wanted history to be recorded as we made it.
Eh, that's not a safe assumption either.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
You know what bothers me the most about the leading vote?
I makes no mention about us thinking that him getting training migth help keep him safe. Making sure that Jaron is safe and sound is the ONE THING in which Dandeer and Kakara might find common ground and that both agree is important and the vote makes no mention of that. Furthermore, just mentioning it would make Kakara think of this action as something that might help keep him safe, which would mean that both of this traits would actívate:
which would give a moderate and a minor bonus to the action. It is such a small change with such a big benefit that makes me doubt how much thought was given to the writting.
Now, credit where it is due, it does benefit from some traits
So it is not as bad as I first thought and it shows some thought was put into it even though it could be better. However, there is the other part of convincing others, which is to tailor the argument to them.
I have already mentioned the lack of mention regarding Jaron's safety. It would also help to explain why Jaron wishes to be able to fight (an important distintion compared to his wish to fight). For one, he hasn't decided if he will fight or not. For another, telling her why would help her understand that Jaron himself doesn't know himself if he will do so or not until the momento comes which would make her aware that it is posible he will choose to fight regardless of him being trained or not. It also puts the blame of this on him being a good boy, which appeases the mother in her (since we compliment her son and how he was raised) and makes her less suspicious about us being the ones who convinced him to fight, which she already was with the scout situation. As things are, she is likely to believe we are taking advantage of the situation to train Jaron rathr than adapting to it by doing it. If you can also tie his actions to the morals learned from the faith instead for the wish for fights saiyans have then it would appeal to the religious in her rather tan her delusion of saiyan violence making a reappearance. Even if it doesn't convince her, it would at least help her prepare so that he doesn't join the fight. Finally, we could add to it that WE don't want him to fight but are afraid that his good heart might get the better of him and while we expect for there to be saiyans assigned to protect him, he at least has to last enough for them to get him out of a stciky situation if he does manage to slip away, an argument that would further assuage her we are not trying to take advantage. Finally, you could mention it would ease Jaron's mind if he believes he can defend his mother and sister if te aliens attack, which would both mean it is to help him cope and that he does it because he loves his mother, which is something she cares about a lot.
I makes no mention about us thinking that him getting training migth help keep him safe. Making sure that Jaron is safe and sound is the ONE THING in which Dandeer and Kakara might find common ground and that both agree is important and the vote makes no mention of that. Furthermore, just mentioning it would make Kakara think of this action as something that might help keep him safe, which would mean that both of this traits would actívate:
which would give a moderate and a minor bonus to the action. It is such a small change with such a big benefit that makes me doubt how much thought was given to the writting.
Now, credit where it is due, it does benefit from some traits
It would get a minor boost from this one though a stronger wording might change it to moderate.
It potentially benefits from this one since it tries to stop the situation from escalating.
This part affects the last part of the vote.
Not as big of a malus to interacting with her.
This one benefits because we consult Berra and Apra.
And this one is obvious.
So it is not as bad as I first thought and it shows some thought was put into it even though it could be better. However, there is the other part of convincing others, which is to tailor the argument to them.
I have already mentioned the lack of mention regarding Jaron's safety. It would also help to explain why Jaron wishes to be able to fight (an important distintion compared to his wish to fight). For one, he hasn't decided if he will fight or not. For another, telling her why would help her understand that Jaron himself doesn't know himself if he will do so or not until the momento comes which would make her aware that it is posible he will choose to fight regardless of him being trained or not. It also puts the blame of this on him being a good boy, which appeases the mother in her (since we compliment her son and how he was raised) and makes her less suspicious about us being the ones who convinced him to fight, which she already was with the scout situation. As things are, she is likely to believe we are taking advantage of the situation to train Jaron rathr than adapting to it by doing it. If you can also tie his actions to the morals learned from the faith instead for the wish for fights saiyans have then it would appeal to the religious in her rather tan her delusion of saiyan violence making a reappearance. Even if it doesn't convince her, it would at least help her prepare so that he doesn't join the fight. Finally, we could add to it that WE don't want him to fight but are afraid that his good heart might get the better of him and while we expect for there to be saiyans assigned to protect him, he at least has to last enough for them to get him out of a stciky situation if he does manage to slip away, an argument that would further assuage her we are not trying to take advantage. Finally, you could mention it would ease Jaron's mind if he believes he can defend his mother and sister if te aliens attack, which would both mean it is to help him cope and that he does it because he loves his mother, which is something she cares about a lot.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
@PoptartProdigy how did you react when we ended the tutorial section having already gotten rid of our "weakling" reputation and literally replaced it with "the mighty"? Looking back at chargen, it looks like you intended to make that a major obstacle.
- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
I think he was too busy reeling from Jaffur's rolls to care, from recollections.
Jaffur rolled really bullshit when we fought him. Like, hilariously so.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
I would also like to remind people that Dandeer has consistently pissed us off whenever we met her. She is likely one of the triggers for hot blooded at this point. So if you want anything productive to come from meeting her, it would be best if the approach benefitted from as many bonus as possible.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Well, first:
That. :lol
But in general? I actually don't have this quest planned out as a story. I've set up a world and tossed you all into it. Now, I forecast. For instance, I already have some scenes months or years down the line written out simply because, unless your voting habits change tremendously, you're going to encounter them, and the most likely changes are aesthetic ones which I can edit into those existing scenes. However, I don't have story arcs planned out, save insofar as my rules are specifically designed with encouraging the development of a good story (the way in which traits develop is one example, as well as the incentives for developing traits). However, as discussed, being the ultimate source of knowledge about this world -- and therefore having a certain advantage in knowing how you're going to interact with it -- I tend to see things coming, although you have surprised me. Ultimately, I'm as much a consumer of this quest as you are -- you've already overturned my long-term predictions in a major way twice, and each was a delight to witness -- but I do have a fairly incontestable advantage in foresight.
So, not only did I have no stake in the, "weakling," reputation, I actually knew in advance that you had a huge chance of provisionally ditching it by the time, "Prelude," concluded.
However, I also knew that given that you would most likely earn it as the result of a polite fiction of you having fought Jaffur on the side of the Sealers, the resulting reputation of, "The Mighty," would be subject to sudden evaporation or at least serious reconsideration once/if the truth came out.
So, to wrap up this rambling reply with a more concise answer to your original question...
...with a smile.
Decim
On again, off again lurker.
- Location
- St. Louis, MO
Out of curiosity, which were those?
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
For one thing, I actually expected Sophie to be the friend you first introduced to ki.
Second thing is that I expected the ki secret to be intact as far as humanity was concerned at this point.
I was thrilled in each case to be proven wrong -- not because I disliked the way things were previously, but because the way things turned out has been so amazing.
- Location
- United States
i should probably vote, shouldn't i?
[X] The time has finally come. You need to talk to Dandeer again.
-[X] Ask Dad and Grandma for advice. Doubles as insurance as they know what's happening.
-[X] Also, double-check that Jaron actually got permission for the training. If he didn't, you'll offer a formal apology to Dandeer, because whatever your feelings for her are, it was genuinely negligent on your part.
-[X] Talk to Dandeer in private about Jaron and his wish to fight.
--[X] Also ask her about her long term plan. The current situation does not seem tenable long term. Jaron can't be kept in an infantile state of dependency forever, and the Vegetans obviously aren't happy with him not being allowed to train.
[X] The time has finally come. You need to talk to Dandeer again.
-[X] Ask Dad and Grandma for advice. Doubles as insurance as they know what's happening.
-[X] Also, double-check that Jaron actually got permission for the training. If he didn't, you'll offer a formal apology to Dandeer, because whatever your feelings for her are, it was genuinely negligent on your part.
-[X] Talk to Dandeer in private about Jaron and his wish to fight.
--[X] Also ask her about her long term plan. The current situation does not seem tenable long term. Jaron can't be kept in an infantile state of dependency forever, and the Vegetans obviously aren't happy with him not being allowed to train.
I didn't include it, because I assumed it would be included automatically/by default, and that leaving most of the fine details to Kakara, who is rather competent, as we did when we choose to "walk away" would be safe to do.
...I should probably check though. @PoptartProdigy?
Mind, we did beat him, we successfully evaded capture for a while, and we put up a good fight against our dad. We could easily we reframe it as "we were actually on the other side of that running battle, and we only lost due to Dad having greater Ki Reserves then the two of us combined".
And besides, if we master Tien Style, Team and Crowd Fighting, gain Perfect Multiform and learn the proposed "power of a USSJ for brief instances" trick, we might be able to beat Berra, Apra and Yammar simultaneously.
Might being the keyword.
How so with the first.For one thing, I actually expected Sophie to be the friend you first introduced to ki.
Second thing is that I expected the ki secret to be intact as far as humanity was concerned at this point.
I was thrilled in each case to be proven wrong -- not because I disliked the way things were previously, but because the way things turned out has been so amazing.
As for the second... Scouts didn't go the way you expected? Did you think we'd give them a heads up, or not interact with them by this point?
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