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Dragon Ball: After the End

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Simon_Jester said:
If Jaffur hadn't been a sorceror, the Masque would have worked as Dandeer intended and there would be no separate Jaron persona.

Jaron would be (as far as we know) simply an unusually heavily enforced (and somewhat mind-controlled) Masque persona. Our Seer powers wouldn't matter, because there'd be nothing to see, no locked-away Jaffur inside Jaron's brain.

It would simply be a matter of abducting Jaron, breaking the compulsions that prevent Jaffur from un-Masquing, and breaking the mind control and memory wipe.

By creating a separate 'Jaron' persona whose life we value and wish to preserve, Jaffur being a sorceror has arguably complicated the un-Sealing, in a fashion which our seer powers have had to cancel out.
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One thing... while I don't exactly disagree with this theory, it IS possible that there are other explanations. It could have something to do with Jaffur being sealed when he was supersaiyan, as that extra level of power and transformation could have complicated it. Also, this might be a natural extension of this "new masque technique" that Dandeer used. It's possible that Vegeta is undergoing the same thing, only we don't know anything about it because he's not a sorcerer that can magic his way out for brief moments... and because we haven't looked because we really don't care about him anyway. It is well possible that Dandeer just made the spell to give herself the "perfect family" and didn't care one bit about the side-effects. Heck, since the spell was originally meant for Vegeta, who was abusing her, I could honestly see her creating the whole trapped mind thing as a "feature", just to get back at him... and when Jaffur didn't immediately fall into line, using it on him because... well, it's not like she's really hurting him, is it? He's still there, just... better, right?
 
Simon_Jester said:
Thing is, that's the minimum of actions to implement Seal-breaking.

We have not, by contrast, done much else, including actions likely to increase the Seal-breaking attempt's success, except enlisting the Seers. We haven't sounded out overall political positions. We haven't told Berra that we've had visions indicating Jaffur is a victim of 'locked-in syndrome' and that there is a fundamental problem with Sealing and that maybe he shouldn't be trusting Dandeer 100% on this. We haven't taught the Senzus Instant Transmission.

And I'm not saying all of these ideas are good ideas. I'm saying we haven't tried, and when plan-voting time comes we had almost nothing to say about it. We had a strong general consensus to spend only one action (the minimum possible) on dealing with the Seal, while spending several actions on other things that arguably aren't as pivotal to Kakara's ongoing character.

None of this is to say we don't care. The point is that if a hypothetical Martian came in, looked at the avowed beliefs and priorities of the thread's voters, and then looked at our collective voting patterns in which I fully share... They might perceive a certain incompatibility.

I'm not even complaining, I'm just trying to describe what's happening.
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We also took an action to integrate him into the misfits.
 
@Simo
fictionfan said:
Actually I think we have put the right actions into that. It is not as if we could have gotten it broken more quickly with more actions. We have been going according to plan and the plan has bottle necks. We needed to learn Seer projection before we could talk to Jaffur. We need to talk to Jaffur before he can learn magic and we need him to learn magic before we can do the kidnapping and break the seal.

I am not sure how we would have gone about breaking it if we were not a Seer and Jaffur not a Sorcerer.
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If we were not a seer, by killing Jaron after kidnapping him and taking him to Dandelor. If he were not a sorcerer... same but without Jaron being an issue.
 
Bakkasama said:
@Simo

If we were not a seer, by killing Jaron after kidnapping him and taking him to Dandelor. If he were not a sorcerer... same but without Jaron being an issue.
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If we were not a Seer he would have warned us that time. Oddly enough every time he has broken through the seal to talk to us he has only told us stuff we already know. I bet there are alot of smug know-it-all Seers.
 
fictionfan said:
If we were not a Seer he would have warned us that time. Oddly enough every time he has broken through the seal to talk to us he has only told us stuff we already know. I bet there are alot of smug know-it-all Seers.
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Imagine Jaffur Quest, carefully choosing their write-in on what to tell us since they have a maximum number of words they can give and they have prioritize what to say. Then every time they manage it, Karen goes, "Yeah, I actually learnt that two years ago. Anything useful?"

Players would both hate and love her at the same time for her mixture of competence and taking her time.
 
Bakkasama said:
Imagine Jaffur Quest, carefully choosing their write-in on what to tell us since they have a maximum number of words they can give and they have prioritize what to say. Then every time they manage it, Karen goes, "Yeah, I actually learnt that two years ago. Anything useful?"

Players would both hate and love her at the same time for her mixture of competence and taking her time.
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We need a nega verse Omake of that.
 
fictionfan said:
We need a nega verse Omake of that.
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Honestly I'd rather have the omake of Maya Quest.

Maya Quest would be kind of... weirdly awesome; we might not even know we were in the Dragonball setting.

ElleonXan said:
One thing... while I don't exactly disagree with this theory, it IS possible that there are other explanations. It could have something to do with Jaffur being sealed when he was supersaiyan, as that extra level of power and transformation could have complicated it. Also, this might be a natural extension of this "new masque technique" that Dandeer used. It's possible that Vegeta is undergoing the same thing, only we don't know anything about it because he's not a sorcerer that can magic his way out for brief moments... and because we haven't looked because we really don't care about him anyway. It is well possible that Dandeer just made the spell to give herself the "perfect family" and didn't care one bit about the side-effects. Heck, since the spell was originally meant for Vegeta, who was abusing her, I could honestly see her creating the whole trapped mind thing as a "feature", just to get back at him... and when Jaffur didn't immediately fall into line, using it on him because... well, it's not like she's really hurting him, is it? He's still there, just... better, right?
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We've been specifically told by Dandelor, who really ought to be able to figure such things out, that it was the combination of raw super-saiyan power and latent sorcerous ability that enabled Jaffur to create a defense. This is not me speculating wildly; in-game experts have commented on the subject.

Thriceboiled said:
Again, first page, threadmarked as rules screen under informational in combat - style's section just above what I previously quoted, check it out maybe?
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My deepest apologies. Having been reading and rereading those rule pages for some months, it is easy for older versions of the rules to displace newer ones. You have my fulsome apologies.

Lailoken said:
Yup. After next year what possible use could a young leader with dreams of returning the saiyans to the stars have for friendly, trusting relationships with the most open and most respected liaisons of her new interstellar allies with their new, copious technology and knowledge about the galaxy at large?

No time for that- she's got a blog to write!
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Individuals whose loyalty presents a long-term advantage will also be available over the longer term themselves.

Past that- if all you have is salt, then I have no more to say to you.
 
fictionfan said:
We need a nega verse Omake of that.
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Also of them getting hype because Jaron is finally going to confront Kakara about ki and they can join the adventure again. Then suddenly!Alien attack.

Scion... the fuck have you been doing?
She has been training her friend? Instead of working on releasing us? Agh!
Scion... why is her power level that high?
 
Bakkasama said:
Also of them getting hype because Jaron is finally going to confront Kakara about ki and they can join the adventure again. Then suddenly!Alien attack.

Scion... the fuck have you been doing?
She has been training her friend? Instead of working on releasing us? Agh!
Scion... why is her power level that high?
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He would likely think she is a masked Saiyan. Maybe, not sure if he can detect masks where he is.
 
Yeah, I suspect that without Poptart actually coming down and Word-of-Godding the question, the arguments for her being a Masqued saiyan would have won.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Honestly I'd rather have the omake of Maya Quest.

Maya Quest would be kind of... weirdly awesome; we might not even know we were in the Dragonball setting.

We've been specifically told by Dandelor, who really ought to be able to figure such things out, that it was the combination of raw super-saiyan power and latent sorcerous ability that enabled Jaffur to create a defense. This is not me speculating wildly; in-game experts have commented on the subject.

My deepest apologies. Having been reading and rereading those rule pages for some months, it is easy for older versions of the rules to displace newer ones. You have my fulsome apologies.

Individuals whose loyalty presents a long-term advantage will also be available over the longer term themselves.

Past that- if all you have is salt, then I have no more to say to you.
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So, if they're only useful in the short term they're not worth socializing with, and if they're useful in both the short and long term they're not worth socializing with, yet despite your ruling out everybody who could be socialized with with that position, you are complaining that the group won't socialize unless forced to in between demanding that the social irons in the fire be allowed to cool unstruck in favor of stuffing the forge full of more non-social ones because delaying beginning any new non-urgent project to take advantage of an opportunity for even a single turn means that the group will never begin it at all...
 
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Simon_Jester said:
[X] Plan Mountaintop Meditation
-[X] The Examined Life: Oddball
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I would prefer if this was switched to examining Compelling Presence or to studying Jaffur Style with Mato. Socialising with our brother is a good thing to do while Compelling Presence would be quite helpful for A Scion's Stewardship and anything that requires a Communication check.
 
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Seers may have it in general, but we can't realistically know more about Jaffur's watchers in the here and now than someone who sees everything Jaron sees, all the time, 24 hours a day and seven days a week.

Being a seer at our (novice or worse) level isn't that stupidly overpowered.

Andres110 said:
I would prefer if this was switched to examining Compelling Presence or to studying Jaffur Style with Mato. Socialising with our brother is a good thing to do while Compelling Presence would be quite helpful for A Scion's Stewardship and anything that requires a Communication check.
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You mean for next year's plan?

Because I'm not even going to worry about this until then; we can have a whole 'nother round of argument about which traits, if any, to reflect on at that time.
 
Simon_Jester said:
We've been specifically told by Dandelor, who really ought to be able to figure such things out, that it was the combination of raw super-saiyan power and latent sorcerous ability that enabled Jaffur to create a defense. This is not me speculating wildly; in-game experts have commented on the subject.
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Did he? My bad. Just out of curiosity, mind linking me to the post in which he stated this? Because I only remember a lot of speculation about it and argument here in the thread, but don't seem to recall it ever being resolved.
 
I am sort of hoping that the Stewardship actions might include talking to the scouts.
 
So, since Brandon's meeting with the top brass is the week after the alien attack we will probably see somethingabout it in the coming updates. Since we are going to be involved on the human side, how would you like it handled?
 
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