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Dragon Ball: After the End

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[X] Try to negotiate a complete cease-fire. It'll mean making promises backed by your position of authority, and definitely will take some of your people scrambling to get Meerak to a radio to vouch for your sincerity and trustworthiness, but if you convince enough of the scouts that a fight isn't necessary right now, you may be able to pressure the leader into admitting that a surrender is his only choice. But you're not even sure if it's possible...



Go go pretty pink princess!
 
First time posting on this thread. I usually just watch threads I like and maybe vote for something I like, but I see that everyone here spends a lot of time discussing diferent options, so I thought I'd participate for once.
Great quest so far btw, @PoptartProdigy. You honest to god made me hate a fictional character, and that is no easy feat.
I'd like to know, can we raise our chances of success in negotiation by writting a specific write-in? Can they perhaps bypass diplomacy rolls by offering a compelling argument?
I apologize if I'm asking anything stupid, I'm sort of new to this.
 
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[X] Try to negotiate a complete cease-fire. It'll mean making promises backed by your position of authority, and definitely will take some of your people scrambling to get Meerak to a radio to vouch for your sincerity and trustworthiness, but if you convince enough of the scouts that a fight isn't necessary right now, you may be able to pressure the leader into admitting that a surrender is his only choice. But you're not even sure if it's possible...
 
[X] Try to negotiate a complete cease-fire. It'll mean making promises backed by your position of authority, and definitely will take some of your people scrambling to get Meerak to a radio to vouch for your sincerity and trustworthiness, but if you convince enough of the scouts that a fight isn't necessary right now, you may be able to pressure the leader into admitting that a surrender is his only choice. But you're not even sure if it's possible...
 
[X] Try to negotiate a complete cease-fire. It'll mean making promises backed by your position of authority, and definitely will take some of your people scrambling to get Meerak to a radio to vouch for your sincerity and trustworthiness, but if you convince enough of the scouts that a fight isn't necessary right now, you may be able to pressure the leader into admitting that a surrender is his only choice. But you're not even sure if it's possible...
 
[X] Try to negotiate a complete cease-fire. It'll mean making promises backed by your position of authority, and definitely will take some of your people scrambling to get Meerak to a radio to vouch for your sincerity and trustworthiness, but if you convince enough of the scouts that a fight isn't necessary right now, you may be able to pressure the leader into admitting that a surrender is his only choice. But you're not even sure if it's possible...
 
Blonddude42 said:
I think the biggest thing we need to do is evaluate what happens in both the gradients of success and failure. Then we need to consider our chances of success and how that impacts reflective.

I'm going to use the cease fire option as an example. I think we can all agree that it is a high risk high reward option, right? It is the most complicated option, with the success of the negotiation not based on just our communication checks (hell, it's not based on just our checks in general). There are a lot of parts that could go wrong and sabotage the negotiation or turn it into a negligible success that would otherwise be a lot better.

The big point I want to get to is what happens if we fail, specifically in regards to our reflective trait. We already have a victory here, although it's a small one. If things go wrong with it, it can turn that into a defeat. How would Kakara feel if she chose negotiation, it broke down, and the people under her were killed or seriously hurt? She knows this can be over in an instant with no more damage, so she'll know that she was the reason they were able to do it. Some degree of the people's blood would be on her hands. That's some serious trauma to get through, and it would really fuck up our progress on reflective.

I'm not saying the cease fire is the wrong option, but we need to think of what could go wrong in addition to what can go right.

(Sorry for any errors and/or typos. I'm on my phone right now so typing is a bitch)
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Yes it's a risk, but I don't think it's that serious of a risk, they would have the initiative even if we tried the divide option and unless they go all suicidal I don't think the could do that much with that initiative.
Anyway I think not trying for the uber-pacifist vote would hurt us more independently from the result, heck even if someone died for some reason I think we would be better of than not trying to do our best.

[X] Try to negotiate a complete cease-fire. It'll mean making promises backed by your position of authority, and definitely will take some of your people scrambling to get Meerak to a radio to vouch for your sincerity and trustworthiness, but if you convince enough of the scouts that a fight isn't necessary right now, you may be able to pressure the leader into admitting that a surrender is his only choice. But you're not even sure if it's possible...
 
[X] Try to negotiate a complete cease-fire. It'll mean making promises backed by your position of authority, and definitely will take some of your people scrambling to get Meerak to a radio to vouch for your sincerity and trustworthiness, but if you convince enough of the scouts that a fight isn't necessary right now, you may be able to pressure the leader into admitting that a surrender is his only choice. But you're not even sure if it's possible...
 
[X] Try to negotiate a complete cease-fire. It'll mean making promises backed by your position of authority, and definitely will take some of your people scrambling to get Meerak to a radio to vouch for your sincerity and trustworthiness, but if you convince enough of the scouts that a fight isn't necessary right now, you may be able to pressure the leader into admitting that a surrender is his only choice. But you're not even sure if it's possible...

Terrabrand said:
Kakara enjoys sparring.
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Not really. She enjoys winning spars. Take the win away from the spar and the only things she could like about the spar are the social activity or skill improvement that the spar brings. The spar itself is unenjoyable to her. It's not just a matter of ideals, Kakara just doesn't enjoy fighting. That's what the Gentle trait represented.
 
While I am one who advocated in favor of negotiating, I feel I should warn you before a bandwagon happens
PoptartProdigy said:
You look around the circle, trying to gauge the scouts' moods. They're agitated -- the three arguing in your favor are not being dissuaded by their companions' pressure. You think you could push them out of the fight entirely, but doing that would force the others to move, because it would make it very clear that you intended for there to be a fight after all. You even think you could get a few others on-side...although given that they're whispering or speaking in strange languages, you only have body language to go on, and, with aliens, can't be sure. And while you're beginning to think it's not likely at all...if you convince enough of them...if you speak well enough...maybe if you somehow get Meerak to get here and vouch for you...and maybe, if you're lucky...you think you might be able to get them to stand down entirely.
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That Kakara's thought process seems to point to the DC for this option being really high.

@PoptartProdigy would Kakara follow the same strategy in convincing them? Would all her bonus still apply?

Because if not and we want to protect civvilians, ordering the attack now might be the better option after all.
 
Mikeline said:
First time posting on this thread. I usually just watch threads I like and maybe vote for something I like, but I see that everyone here spends a lot of time discussing diferent options, so I thought I'd participate for once.
Great quest so far btw, PoptartProdigy. You honest to god made me hate a fictional character, and that is no easy feat.
I'd like to know, can we raise our chances of success in negotiation by writting a specific write-in? Can they perhaps bypass diplomacy rolls by offering a compelling argument?
I apologize if I'm asking anything stupid, I'm sort of new to this.
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Welcome aboard! Always glad to have new people joining in. I'm flattered that my writing has affected you so strongly.

No such thing as stupid questions; not if you don't already know the answer. :) Specific write-ins are always one method of modulating the results of a vote; this past vote's write-in was what allowed Kakara to leverage such a panoply of traits in support of her course of action. The flip side is that they also allow you to hit NPC's triggers; if you write in the wrong thing, you risk alienating somebody. Write-ins are a way to tailor a vote, but represent both potential benefits and possible pitfalls. They can and have accomplished great things, though. Done carefully, they are a powerful tool. They don't bypass rolls, though; make them all-but-assured -- or even totally assured, with the right argument -- but the rolls still happen.

Bakkasama said:
@PoptartProdigy would Kakara follow the same strategy in convincing them? Would all her bonus still apply?

Because if not and we want to protect civvilians, ordering the attack now might be the better option after all.
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Unless written in otherwise, she'll maintain her approach.
 
[X] Try to negotiate a complete cease-fire. It'll mean making promises backed by your position of authority, and definitely will take some of your people scrambling to get Meerak to a radio to vouch for your sincerity and trustworthiness, but if you convince enough of the scouts that a fight isn't necessary right now, you may be able to pressure the leader into admitting that a surrender is his only choice. But you're not even sure if it's possible...
 
Even if the leader can't be moved directly, it doesn't mean he can't be moved at all.

Here's how it started:
The leader can't be moved.
Most of the non-leaders can't be moved.
3 of the non-leaders can be moved.

Then we moved the 3 non-leaders:
The leader can't be moved.
Most of the non-leaders can be moved (and HAVE been moved), due to 3 others having been moved.
3 of the non-leaders have been moved.

We win by moving the last of the non-leaders:
The leader can be moved now that all (or even most) of his subordinates have been moved.
All of the non-leaders have been moved.


We're partway through winning this confrontation. The hardest part has already been done. Now all we have to do is keep talking and ride the cascade failure.
 
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Also I guess when it comes down to it. It is the invading force behind them that is important. If we establish a pressident of talking down the scouts then attacking them well they are vunerable that doesn't help us with the main force.
 
[X] Try to negotiate a complete cease-fire. It'll mean making promises backed by your position of authority, and definitely will take some of your people scrambling to get Meerak to a radio to vouch for your sincerity and trustworthiness, but if you convince enough of the scouts that a fight isn't necessary right now, you may be able to pressure the leader into admitting that a surrender is his only choice. But you're not even sure if it's possible...

We should telepathically ask Dad to have a couple of Saiyans flare their PLs up to a notable amount (not so many that Maya will think 'There's dozens of ki users I don't know!' but enough for the aliens to realize they don't have numbers on their side now) during the negotiations, and suggest we move the discussion away from the civilians.

This will allow the aliens to have a face-saving reason to move (we are surrounded, but can force the enemy to re-position by agreeing to move) and let us get away from the squishies. Historically, in DBZ, combatants have been willing to move away from vulnerable infrastructure prior to battle.
 
Andres110 said:
Even if the leader can't be moved directly, it doesn't mean he can't be moved at all.

Here's how it started:
The leader can't be moved.
Most of the non-leaders can't be moved.
3 of the non-leaders can be moved.

Then we moved the 3 non-leaders:
The leader can't be moved.
Most of the non-leaders can be moved (and HAVE been moved), due to 3 others having been moved.
3 of the non-leaders have been moved.

We win by moving the last of the non-leaders:
The leader can be moved now that all (or even most) of his subordinates has been moved.
All of the non-leaders have been moved.


We're partway through winning this confrontation. The hardest part has already been done. Now all we have to do is keep talking and ride the cascade failure.
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This got an Insightful from PoptartProdigy!
 
[X] Andres110

You have my sword!

And more importantly, my vote. (Seriously though I like where you are going with this.)
 
Andres110 said:
Even if the leader can't be moved directly, it doesn't mean he can't be moved at all.

Here's how it started:
The leader can't be moved.
Most of the non-leaders can't be moved.
3 of the non-leaders can be moved.

Then we moved the 3 non-leaders:
The leader can't be moved.
Most of the non-leaders can be moved (and HAVE been moved), due to 3 others having been moved.
3 of the non-leaders have been moved.

We win by moving the last of the non-leaders:
The leader can be moved now that all (or even most) of his subordinates has been moved.
All of the non-leaders have been moved.


We're partway through winning this confrontation. The hardest part has already been done. Now all we have to do is keep talking and ride the cascade failure.
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Maybe make a write-in in this context? Or would Kakara approach the conversation like this anyway, @PoptartProdigy?
 
Cariyaga said:
Maybe make a write-in in this context? Or would Kakara approach the conversation like this anyway, @PoptartProdigy?
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Her going for a total ceasefire is her adopting this approach. Basically, the presented options are her setting a certain goal to achieve, aiming for each of the degrees of success Andres points out: ensuring the three initial converts, shooting for more but not going for the whole take, and trying to get that rolling support of three-->rest--->leader.
 
KaintukeeBob said:
We should telepathically ask Dad to have a couple of Saiyans flare their PLs up to a notable amount (not so many that Maya will think 'There's dozens of ki users I don't know!' but enough for the aliens to realize they don't have numbers on their side now) during the negotiations, and suggest we move the discussion away from the civilians.

This will allow the aliens to have a face-saving reason to move (we are surrounded, but can force the enemy to re-position by agreeing to move) and let us get away from the squishies. Historically, in DBZ, combatants have been willing to move away from vulnerable infrastructure prior to battle.
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That is a bad idea. The leader's argument is that we don't want to negotiate but make time for reinforcements to arrive. Having saiyans flare their PL will make them think they are about to be attacked. Telling them we should move away from civilians also tells them we expect a fight in which they might get hurt. This is the opposite of what we want in a negotiation and ruins any element of surprise.

Speaking of surprise, I am experiencing it at the fact that Dandeer hasn't ordered a vegetan rescue operation since the aliens attacked her son's school.
 
honestly, i think no write-in is best here. we are already running off of our previous write-in for trait bonuses, and i heavily doubt that we will do better than that.
 
[X] Try to negotiate a complete cease-fire. It'll mean making promises backed by your position of authority, and definitely will take some of your people scrambling to get Meerak to a radio to vouch for your sincerity and trustworthiness, but if you convince enough of the scouts that a fight isn't necessary right now, you may be able to pressure the leader into admitting that a surrender is his only choice. But you're not even sure if it's possible...

If it isn't possible, then we shall make it possible.

PoptartProdigy said:
Hopeful [Foundational Trait]: Above all things, Kakara believes in making tomorrow better than today. All of her struggles are not just about righting past wrongs, but about making things in the future better. Kakara believes this is possible. She holds onto that hope, using it as the core of her drive to change herself and others. Not to control them, but to give them the tools they need to rise in the hope that anyone can be better. Grandpa Gohan didn't have much hope for Jaffur, but he admitted he was wrong. Maybe what the Exiles need now is some hope, a vision to strive for. Gain +2 yearly actions and a flat +20 to Willpower
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DarknessSmiles said:
honestly, i think no write-in is best here. we are already running off of our previous write-in for trait bonuses, and i heavily doubt that we will do better than that.
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The most pressing reason you would change would be if you thought the current write-in was unsuited to influencing the scouts' mindset due to changing circumstances. If the thread feels that the new situation as of the end of the update demands tweaking their previous approach, they can, but if you feel like it still suits, then there's no need or reason to change things.
 
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