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Hello again, all! The essay on pacifism is now in the Lore Screen, under "Useful Information." Additionally, BIG NEWS! @Gore17 has been so generous as to produce a TVTropes page for the quest. Thank you very much, Gore, and have a greater bonus towards your next Research check by way of reward! :D
Alas, I got less done then I wanted to, and it's now 4:05 am, so I'm off to bed.
How many added tropes is worth a lesser/greater reward?
Make entries in the trope pages instead. Never enough of those.
 
A thought: Grandma likely has some high levels in Deceit. This would make her a good teacher.

We also need to teach Maya, so she doesn't end up blowing the Masquerade. And finally, spending time bonding with Fennella is useful on multiple levels, and we may want to introduce both sets of friends in the future.

So could we arrange for the three of us to learn Deceit under grandma? We bind the heir of House Peat closer to us while keeping an eye on her, slowly beginning to accliminate Maya to the greater Saiyan society, reduce the chances of something getting out(looks at Fenella especially), and get to spend time with our Grandmother, which we can then use as an excuse for Conspiracy stuff.
 
I'm pretty sure we wound up with Berra NOT agreeing on the "reveal to Maya that there are saiyans." She still thinks that any saiyans she encounters are just other ki-using humans like herself.

Given that this is the case, we can't really bring her into any interactions we have with other saiyans. Certainly not ones that are actually meant to have useful results for our ability to operate in saiyan society, because we have to spend all her time around her pretending that this society doesn't exist.

Furthermore, Grandma Apra would almost certainly not be okay with revealing to a human (even a ki-using human) that saiyans exist, if Berra doesn't think it's okay to do that. She does respect his current status as Lord, and she's trying rather hard with this whole conspiracy to create a situation in which he can be compelled to accept Jaffur's un-sealing without suffering too much loss of face, and without being personally endangered.

Again, the biggest practical reason Berra refused to fully disclose the facts about the saiyans with Maya is because that is a huge, potentially irreversible step in saiyan-human relations. Given that Berra is arguably the only person on the planet legally entitled to make policy decisions regarding that issue, I doubt Apra or anyone else will do anything that might do an end-run around him... Like openly teaching Kakara political tricks and saiyan history while Maya is around. It would invite the question "Your grandma is talking to you like a princess or something... are you a princess? Who of?"
 
I'm pretty sure we wound up with Berra NOT agreeing on the "reveal to Maya that there are saiyans." She still thinks that any saiyans she encounters are just other ki-using humans like herself.

Given that this is the case, we can't really bring her into any interactions we have with other saiyans. Certainly not ones that are actually meant to have useful results for our ability to operate in saiyan society, because we have to spend all her time around her pretending that this society doesn't exist.

Furthermore, Grandma Apra would almost certainly not be okay with revealing to a human (even a ki-using human) that saiyans exist, if Berra doesn't think it's okay to do that. She does respect his current status as Lord, and she's trying rather hard with this whole conspiracy to create a situation in which he can be compelled to accept Jaffur's un-sealing without suffering too much loss of face, and without being personally endangered.

Again, the biggest practical reason Berra refused to fully disclose the facts about the saiyans with Maya is because that is a huge, potentially irreversible step in saiyan-human relations. Given that Berra is arguably the only person on the planet legally entitled to make policy decisions regarding that issue, I doubt Apra or anyone else will do anything that might do an end-run around him... Like openly teaching Kakara political tricks and saiyan history while Maya is around. It would invite the question "Your grandma is talking to you like a princess or something... are you a princess? Who of?"
*facepalms* You have completely and utterly misunderstood what I was suggesting. I just...

Okay, first, I never suggested we reveal to Maya that Saiyans exist. At all. What I was:
slowly beginning to accliminate Maya to the greater Saiyan society
This does not require her to know about Saiyans. What I meant by it is that slowly introducing others who are "in on it", and her getting a (filtered) glimpse of what Saiyan society is like. This means that when she eventually does find out, she's not completely out of her depth, and has contacts/friends she can rely upon to help her.

And what I was suggesting doesn't actually require us to acknowledging the greater Saiyan society, or learning/teaching anything about it. I think you might confusing the Deceit and Intrigue skills? Deceit is the lying skill, your talk of political tricks is the Intrigue skill.
 
*facepalms* You have completely and utterly misunderstood what I was suggesting. I just...

Okay, first, I never suggested we reveal to Maya that Saiyans exist. At all. What I was:

This does not require her to know about Saiyans. What I meant by it is that slowly introducing others who are "in on it", and her getting a (filtered) glimpse of what Saiyan society is like. This means that when she eventually does find out, she's not completely out of her depth, and has contacts/friends she can rely upon to help her.
I think I'd like to run that idea past Berra or wait a little longer before acting on it. He's trusting us to consult him before we do anything he'd consider an "infohazard" risk, and blowing that trust isn't going to be a good thing for us in the long run.

And what I was suggesting doesn't actually require us to acknowledging the greater Saiyan society, or learning/teaching anything about it. I think you might confusing the Deceit and Intrigue skills? Deceit is the lying skill, your talk of political tricks is the Intrigue skill.
The problem is that if you think in narrative terms, the two skill sets are closely related- the ability to construct plausible falsehoods, the ability to model how other people will respond to various categories of stimuli and provocations, the ability to recognize other people's motives and tailor one's position and words to match... All of that comes into play in both skill sets.

It's going to be hard to coach someone about 'how to lie convincingly' without the context of who they're lying to, what information they'd be trying to protect, and why it's important that they be able to do so.

I mean, Maya could figure a fair amount from just that alone: "...wait, why is your grandma teaching you to keep up a better poker face?"

[Cue us trying to come up with an explanation and probably failing because this happened near the beginning of our Deceit lessons]

Bringing Fennella along is probably a good idea, but I'm nervous about bringing Maya into the social circle of Masqued saiyans without talking it over with Lord Berra... and we probably don't want to tell dad we're taking lessons in how to conceal the truth, especially if he might ask why he's not the one being asked to do it (again, forcing us to lie about why we need to learn to lie better, when we don't already know how).[/QUOTE]
 
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Ah, Simon? I think you messed up the tags.

On a completely different note, I calculated the minimum energy required to create a Moon entirely out of our own Ki. I'm fairly sure it's more then we can do.

On the other hand, I suspect PL's are exponential, so confirmation will take a bit longer. :V
 
Er... you mean that the actual amount of power manipulation involved scales with, say, e to the power of the power level?

Jeez I hope not. Because (for example) a power differential of 700 versus 1000 is a major gap. But if power scales exponentially with power level, then...

The thing is, in an exponential function, increasing the power level by a fixed additive increase would ALWAYS multiply the power level by a fixed amount.

If adding 300 to a base power level of 300 to get 600 is a large gap in power level (say, in increase by a factor of two), AND if power growth is exponential as a function of level... Raising power level from 600 to 3600 is implementing that same increase of a factor of two ten times. So 3600 is 1024 times as powerful as 600.

By the same logic, 6600 is 1024 times as powerful as 3600, and over a million times more powerful than 600. But it gets worse.

1,000,003,000 is ALSO 1024 times as powerful as a power level of exactly one billion. "A billion and thirty thousand" is (1024^10) or roughly 10^30 times more powerful than "a billion." "A billion and three hundred thousand" is roughly 10^300 times more powerful than "a billion." And so on.

...

I'm pretty sure Poptart has explicitly said it does not work this way, and power levels are additive. I hope they did.

The better to turn into a giant ape with?
 
You know what? I think I am going to be THAT guy.

Congratulations @darkdigi for Reading the entire thread in like, four days if my alerts are right. Welcome to the quest!
 
You know what? I think I am going to be THAT guy.

Congratulations @darkdigi for Reading the entire thread in like, four days if my alerts are right. Welcome to the quest!
Likewise. I saw @darkdigi liking my post for a few days now. Welcome.
Thanks. It was pretty fun read, even the... recent developments.
Also.
[X][ALIEN] Complain about the QM messing with you.
[X[ALIEN] Tell the QM he's/she's/they're mean.
seriously tho that bait and switch was hilarious.
 
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I think I'd like to run that idea past Berra or wait a little longer before acting on it. He's trusting us to consult him before we do anything he'd consider an "infohazard" risk, and blowing that trust isn't going to be a good thing for us in the long run.

The problem is that if you think in narrative terms, the two skill sets are closely related- the ability to construct plausible falsehoods, the ability to model how other people will respond to various categories of stimuli and provocations, the ability to recognize other people's motives and tailor one's position and words to match... All of that comes into play in both skill sets.

It's going to be hard to coach someone about 'how to lie convincingly' without the context of who they're lying to, what information they'd be trying to protect, and why it's important that they be able to do so.

I mean, Maya could figure a fair amount from just that alone: "...wait, why is your grandma teaching you to keep up a better poker face?"

[Cue us trying to come up with an explanation and probably failing because this happened near the beginning of our Deceit lessons]

Bringing Fennella along is probably a good idea, but I'm nervous about bringing Maya into the social circle of Masqued saiyans without talking it over with Lord Berra... and we probably don't want to tell dad we're taking lessons in how to conceal the truth, especially if he might ask why he's not the one being asked to do it (again, forcing us to lie about why we need to learn to lie better, when we don't already know how).
[/QUOTE]
I never suggested not telling Berra? Lying, or at least being able to keep things to ourself, is an important skill, especially for such an important skill.

And the context of "Deceit" is lying in general. Hypotheticals can be used. And Maya is going to be expected to keep the existence of the "monsters"/"aliens" from people, and keep Ki a secret.

As for why we're not getting lessons from him? He's got an important job so we don't want to take up more of his time(True), it'll give us a chance to spend more time with Grandma(true), and we want to introduce our friends to Grandma(true).
Because have you seen the rate planets and moons get destroyed in Dragon Ball? And the Supreme Kai's obviously aren't doing their job right. :V

...Well, that and just waving your arms and a planet appears would be really cool.
Er... you mean that the actual amount of power manipulation involved scales with, say, e to the power of the power level?

Jeez I hope not. Because (for example) a power differential of 700 versus 1000 is a major gap. But if power scales exponentially with power level, then...

The thing is, in an exponential function, increasing the power level by a fixed additive increase would ALWAYS multiply the power level by a fixed amount.

If adding 300 to a base power level of 300 to get 600 is a large gap in power level (say, in increase by a factor of two), AND if power growth is exponential as a function of level... Raising power level from 600 to 3600 is implementing that same increase of a factor of two ten times. So 3600 is 1024 times as powerful as 600.

By the same logic, 6600 is 1024 times as powerful as 3600, and over a million times more powerful than 600. But it gets worse.

1,000,003,000 is ALSO 1024 times as powerful as a power level of exactly one billion. "A billion and thirty thousand" is (1024^10) or roughly 10^30 times more powerful than "a billion." "A billion and three hundred thousand" is roughly 10^300 times more powerful than "a billion." And so on.

...

I'm pretty sure Poptart has explicitly said it does not work this way, and power levels are additive. I hope they did.
Nah, that was just me applying RL science to Space Magic, which wouldn't really apply. But in case you're worried, the exponential rate is 1.2255385652743034421643062829407*10^-8. It's pretty minor if you're within 10 million or so. :V

But yeah, upon calculating with that, Kakara would indeed have enough raw energy to produce enough mass for a moon, calculated through e=mc^2. :V

For those wondering: through e=mc^2, the moon is 6.6037592413026551656653076e+39 joules. Through the wonders of math and power scaling, Kakara at full power(non Oozaru) can generate at least 9.0749175170522001811580654872525e+40 joules.
 
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Actually, given that Kami repaired it who knows how many times then Jaffur might be better suited for moonfixing duties. Because magic.
 
Actually, given that Kami repaired it who knows how many times then Jaffur might be better suited for moonfixing duties. Because magic.

Yeah, but much of that was true magic and how much was that simple Guardian Hax.

Actually thats a thought.

Have the Garenhilders tried to make contact with their planets local Guardian?
 
Actually, given that Kami repaired it who knows how many times then Jaffur might be better suited for moonfixing duties. Because magic.
Well, if you're not creating raw materials with pure energy, then creating a moon would be far easier. I was talking about pure brute force earlier. :V
Yeah, but much of that was true magic and how much was that simple Guardian Hax.

Actually thats a thought.

Have the Garenhilders tried to make contact with their planets local Guardian?
Asked before: there is none. No Guardian at all, at least as far as the Exiles can tell. Part of why it was picked.
 
Either that or a new goal to aim for: Kakara Goku, Guardian of Garenhuld!
 
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