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Extra bodies would be far worse for us. The biggest benefit of Multiform to our proposed Pacifist style is that we can have 3-4 full power bodies, some of which can go Great Ape (with Kaio-Ken) and use Ki-Ko-Ho, and others to restrain and grapple opponents.

More bodies will result in individually weaker bodies, which makes multiform less useful in combat. It won't necessarily even end up with us getting more actions, as at some point we'll hit diminishing returns in our ability to split our focus.
1. We can already have two full power bodies if we have one as an ape and the other as a human.
2. At some point? As long as we can get at least one extra action it would be worth it.
3. We never learned multiform for combat. It was entirely for the extra actions. If we start researching Multiform to increase it's use in combat, it will directly go against our pacifistic nature making it harder to learn and not IC.
 
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1. We can already have two full power bodies if we have one as an ape and the other as a human.
2. At some point? As long as we can get at least one extra action it would be worth it.
3. We never learned multiform for combat. It was entirely for the extra actions. If we start researching Multiform to increase it's use in combat, it will directly go against our pacifistic nature making it harder to learn and not IC.

1. No, we split our ki between the bodies. We'd still get the full Great Ape boost, but our base power would still be halved (unless I'm misremembering something)

2. That's the point I was trying to make - Poptart has been clear that the action economy is tight. There's no reason to expect that another body = another action any longer.

3. One of the reasons we wanted it was extra actions, true. But there have always been discussions of its utility in combat, as well.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Aranfan on Apr 13, 2017 at 11:57 AM, finished with 248 posts and 44 votes.

  • [X][ALIEN] Accept his surrender.
    -[X] Ask him why.
    [X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
    [X][ALIEN] Accept his surrender.
    -[X] Ask him why
    [X][DRAMA] You're right. Nobody has to die. You'll make it so if that's not the case. That's always been your way; you hope for better. You won't stop now!
    [X][DRAMA] You're right. Nobody has to die. You'll make it so if that's not the case. That's always been your way; you hope for better. You won't stop now!
    [X][ALIEN] Accept his surrender.
    [X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
    [X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
    [X] Full disclosure. Surely you can convince Dad to cast away the Masquerade your people have maintained for centuries for not terribly much reason at all, right? Well, once you do, go walk back upstairs without a Masque on, and start explaining.
    -[X][ALIEN] Punch him.
    --[X][ALIEN] Kick him.
    ---[X][ALIEN] BLAST him.
    ----[X][ALIEN] DO ALL OF THE THINGS!
    [X][ALIEN] Complain about the QM messing with you.
    [X][ALIEN] Tell the QM he's/she's/they're mean.
    [X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
    [X][ALIEN] Accept his surrender.
    [X][DRAMA] You're right. Nobody has to die. You'll make it so if that's not the case. That's always been your way; you hope for better. You won't stop now!
    [X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
    [X][ALIEN] Accept his surrender.
    [X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
    [X][ALIEN] Tell the QM he's/she's/they're mean.
 
*Catches up on thread, sighs*

Okay, so. Without the update from our QM, and without falling into the 50 billionth and 1 argument about our "hot button issues", what are some productive avenues of discussion we can have among ourselves?

I'll toss out a couple:

-What are some of the particular aspects of the proposed Pacifist Style that people would like to see? As in, techniques, methodology, strengths and weaknesses, that sort of thing?
-What are....let's say 3 techniques you'd like to see Kakara develop, aside from Ki Blocking, that help boost the idea of a Pacifist Style?
-What are 2-3 areas of study you'd like to see Kakara invest in as she gets older?
To answer my own question and (no offense) keep it a bit more concise than some of the replies I've seen....

-I would like to see stylistic fusions of Tien and Piccolo style, as each, to me, has basic movements and forms I think would incorporate well into Pacifist style. Assuming you stripped away Ki use entirely, these styles suggest lending themselves to nerve strikes, joint strikes, grappling, and other moves that can be disabling without being lethal or near-lethal. The impression of how they move suggests someone who can move fluidly and efficiently, which I think fits Kakara well. Kakara ought to embody the "be water, my friend" advice from Bruce Lee. (Jaffur would be more suited to sharp, efficient, brutal, explosive power, centered on chops, punches, kicks, and other moves using maximum force with minimum movement and energy expenditure.)

-I would like to see Kakara develop a sort of "stun gun" attack that branches off from Ki Blocking; instead of disrupting Ki use in particular, it seeks to disrupt and slow down the enemy, perhaps much like stun guns/tasers do. As well, some sort of more comprehensive technique based on the Solar Flare, that could disrupt not only sight, but also hearing, and perhaps even Ki sense, without high risk of permanently damaging or destroying any of those senses. Finally, and this may not be possible without magic, a technique that disrupts, drains, and/or "blasts away" (as if blasting away ablative armor) an opponent's Ki, without actually running a risk of physical harm; there's certainly a risk from overpowering someone so completely they're left dying from being "drained dry", but ideally this technique would allow us to fight against enemy Ki blasts and close distance to finish disabling them with other techniques.

-I would like to see Kakara study...hm. I'd say some combination of Psychology (possibly with some focus on Therapy/Counseling), Politics, and....hm. I'm tempted to say "Medicine", but it somehow doesn't feel quite right. Neither does Farming/Agriculture. But something....life-giving. Or at least life-affirming....
 
-I would like to see Kakara develop a sort of "stun gun" attack that branches off from Ki Blocking; instead of disrupting Ki use in particular, it seeks to disrupt and slow down the enemy, perhaps much like stun guns/tasers do. As well, some sort of more comprehensive technique based on the Solar Flare, that could disrupt not only sight, but also hearing, and perhaps even Ki sense, without high risk of permanently damaging or destroying any of those senses. Finally, and this may not be possible without magic, a technique that disrupts, drains, and/or "blasts away" (as if blasting away ablative armor) an opponent's Ki, without actually running a risk of physical harm; there's certainly a risk from overpowering someone so completely they're left dying from being "drained dry", but ideally this technique would allow us to fight against enemy Ki blasts and close distance to finish disabling them with other techniques.

It seems like there should be some way to use ki for battlefield control. Perhaps, like the Demon Egg attack (where projectile ki balls are suspended around a target), but with ki ribbons of some sort? things that will restrict the mobility of an opponent? Or perhaps something like saturating an area with diffuse ki energy, to block their sensing or possibly disrupt their projection?

Is there maybe a way to use ki to materialize matter? I believe this answer is 'no' (Piccolo's most Metro Attack - Clothes Beam - was identified as magic by the QM, I believe) but if it isn't, it would be neat to fire ki 'blasts' that transform into restraining goo on contact (working like containment foam from Worm or Syrup Capture Field from Naruto).

I also think we should seriously consider incorporating the Afterimage into our repertoire. Especially if we're going to be using Multiform, it could work well to distract foes so we can set them up for a capture/ki block.

Kakara should make her own style specializing in safe takedowns. Also healing.

Not to sound too snarky, but 'welcome to the conversation'. Thread consensus (by majority) seems to be Tien (possibly followed by another style or two, Demon has been recommended) to build up to creating a Pacifist Style that focuses on exactly those things: grappling, non-lethal abilities, and ki blocking.

Healing, ki or otherwise, isn't really part of a style - it's a battlefield support technique for when you aren't engaged directly with a foe.
 
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Is there maybe a way to use ki to materialize matter? I believe this answer is 'no' (Piccolo's most Metro Attack - Clothes Beam - was identified as magic by the QM, I believe) but if it isn't, it would be neat to fire ki 'blasts' that transform into restraining goo on contact (working like containment foam from Worm or Syrup Capture Field from Naruto).
oh boy do I have news for you
 
It seems like there should be some way to use ki for battlefield control. Perhaps, like the Demon Egg attack (where projectile ki balls are suspended around a target), but with ki ribbons of some sort? things that will restrict the mobility of an opponent? Or perhaps something like saturating an area with diffuse ki energy, to block their sensing or possibly disrupt their projection?

Is there maybe a way to use ki to materialize matter? I believe this answer is 'no' (Piccolo's most Metro Attack - Clothes Beam - was identified as magic by the QM, I believe) but if it isn't, it would be neat to fire ki 'blasts' that transform into restraining goo on contact (working like containment foam from Worm or Syrup Capture Field from Naruto).

I also think we should seriously consider incorporating the Afterimage into our repertoire. Especially if we're going to be using Multiform, it could work well to distract foes so we can set them up for a capture/ki block.



Not to sound too snarky, but 'welcome to the conversation'. Thread consensus (by majority) seems to be Tien (possibly followed by another style or two, Demon has been recommended) to build up to creating a Pacifist Style that focuses on exactly those things: grappling, non-lethal abilities, and ki blocking.

Healing, ki or otherwise, isn't really part of a style - it's a battlefield support technique for when you aren't engaged directly with a foe.
I actually really like the Ki Ribbons idea. Could end up being something we can turn into a sort of art form, as well!

A couple people have mentioned the Gotenks Donut Attack, which I think has potential.
 
You can make Ki ape plasma and gas

stands to reason you can make it act like liquids or solids

so yeah, you're onto something

That is not what he saud though. We know we can get it to act as solid from the doghnut attack and spirit ball but he asked if it could materialize matter.Like, could I potentialy build a house with it as raw material?
 
That is not what he saud though. We know we can get it to act as solid from the doghnut attack and spirit ball but he asked if it could materialize matter.Like, could I potentialy build a house with it as raw material?

Not quite what I was intending, though I can see where you'd get the idea.

Essentially, I want ki web shooters - ki blasts that 'explode' into constraining liquid/non-newtonian fluid that will hinder our foes.

I believe the best chance for that to happen is if it transforms into some sort of super-kami-glue-ru on contact, but it would work even if it's just ki mimicking glue.

I actually really like the Ki Ribbons idea. Could end up being something we can turn into a sort of art form, as well!

Methinks 'New Tricks - ki containment attacks' needs to be in the Plan for next year, assuming we have space. 'New Tricks - develop ki containment techniques: be they ribbons of ki that wrap around foes, blasts that stick to their target to restrain movement, or something similar, you know there MUST be a way to use your ki to stop people without hurting them.'

And yes, ki ribbons could make for some spectacular performance art!
 
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Not quite what I was intending, though I can see where you'd get the idea.

Essentially, I want ki web shooters - ki blasts that 'explode' into constraining liquid/non-newtonian fluid that will hinder our foes.

I believe the best chance for that to happen is if it transforms into some sort of super-kami-glue-ru on contact, but it would work even if it's just ki mimicking glue.



Methinks 'New Tricks - ki containment attacks' needs to be in the Plan for next year, assuming we have space. 'New Tricks - develop ki containment techniques: be they ribbons of ki that wrap around foes, blasts that stick to their target to restrain movement, or something similar, you know there MUST be a way to use your ki to stop people without hurting them.'

And yes, ki ribbons could make for some spectacular performance art!
I think starting with something like "ribbons" before trying to go for "web fluid" is a good idea. We need to progress ourselves through the concept...
 
I have a hard time imagining how the attack with ribbons would be. They are supposed to wrap around the opponent? The whole glue thing that hardens around them is easier to picture since you just have to hit them with it but for the other I don't know what they look like. How big would they be? How fast do they tighten? Do they look like ribbons when you launch them or just when they hit and wrap? Do you even launch them or just leave a giant web of ki string and hope for them to get tangled like flies (which is admitably an amusing image with a golden ape in the middle of it)?
 
I have a hard time imagining how the attack with ribbons would be. They are supposed to wrap around the opponent? The whole glue thing that hardens around them is easier to picture since you just have to hit them with it but for the other I don't know what they look like. How big would they be? How fast do they tighten? Do they look like ribbons when you launch them or just when they hit and wrap? Do you even launch them or just leave a giant web of ki string and hope for them to get tangled like flies (which is admitably an amusing image with a golden ape in the middle of it)?

In my mind, which is the only place they exist right now (outside of the minds of other posters who have read this far) they would be energy ribbons (probably the color of ki blasts) - broad and flat. I'd picture several ways they could be used, honestly.
  • They could cocoon someone directly.
  • They could be spread around an area in three dimensions. Foes would be unlikely to be willing to touch them (not knowing their purpose).
    • Perhaps on contact they can be made to cocoon?
  • They could potentially be controlled by the user after being thrown out (like ki blasts can be), for repeated strikes or moving webs
How they ultimately end up working, of course, would be up to Poptart, and their speed and strength would almost certainly be based in part off of our skill with the technique.
 
You can make Ki ape plasma and gas

stands to reason you can make it act like liquids or solids

so yeah, you're onto something
And even if we couldn't, there's always controlled nuclear reactions to cause Nuclear Transmutation. :V

...Seriously, I want to max-out such skill trees, and combine it with Tinkering to materialize our inventions out of thin air, or repair them near-instantly. Oh, combine it with Ki Healing and Medicine to perform massive surgeries instantly. :V

...Oh, and incidentally, we've apparently been given "official" numbers for how much more powerful USSJ is: 10 times more powerful. Whether that's for the base Saiyan, or compared to ASSJ, I have no idea.
 
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I take a break for a couple of days and half the thread wants to become Tomoe Mami. :lol

Hello again, all! The essay on pacifism is now in the Lore Screen, under "Useful Information." Additionally, BIG NEWS! @Gore17 has been so generous as to produce a TVTropes page for the quest. Thank you very much, Gore, and have a greater bonus towards your next Research check by way of reward! :D

Your update will arrive tomorrow. And, to make it official...

Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - Dragon Ball: After the End | Page 443 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.5

Task: ALIEN

[X][ALIEN] Accept his surrender.
-[X] Ask him why
No. of Votes: 27

[X][ALIEN] Accept his surrender.
No. of Votes: 5

[X][ALIEN] Tell the QM he's/she's/they're mean.
No. of Votes: 2

-[X][ALIEN] Punch him.
--[X][ALIEN] Kick him.
---[X][ALIEN] BLAST him.
----[X][ALIEN] DO ALL OF THE THINGS!
No. of Votes: 1

[X][ALIEN] Complain about the QM messing with you.
No. of Votes: 1


——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: DRAMA

[X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.
No. of Votes: 28

[X][DRAMA] You're right. Nobody has to die. You'll make it so if that's not the case. That's always been your way; you hope for better. You won't stop now!
No. of Votes: 15

Total No. of Voters: 43

Vote closed.

Your wining votes are, in a landslide,

[X][ALIEN] Accept his surrender.
-[X] Ask him why

and,

[X][DRAMA] You...you don't know. This is a hard question. You need to think. You need time. But at least you're a little wiser now; you know that you still have to think about it. And that's...that's okay.

See you all tomorrow!
 
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