Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
And yet we were told that no choice was wrong here, and later told that going to Hell would be... hazardous to our health, so...
Dragon Ball: After the End
- Location
- Italy
...i actually forgot about the [ASK] thing. how did it work?
Well, a short visit is better than nothing. Would it be the only one we're allowed in..what, a month? a year?
Some advice (what are the most usefull things you can tell me in the short time we have?), question about the god ritual and enemy's identity (Gohan fought him, he MUST know something more than this!), question about if the Enemy can sense god ki if we try to achieve it now, maybe advice on how to train to become stronger WITHOUT the enemy sensing it (even a generic: try for better wards, try for tech shielding), maybe a question about Namek, buu or the androids... There is a lot they can say to us in even a couple minutes
Depending on how many seconds/minute of visit time we get there is actually quite a lot of usefull things we can ask. see above for a few examples.
uh, i didn't notice it.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
So, knocking 'those above' off the list, the choices I wanted to try were:
[ ] Old friends.
[ ] Old family.
[ ] New enemies.
I'll think about those.
Going inside Dandeer's head may actually be WORSE than going to Hell, given the way Dragonball Hell works wherein the worst thing you'll encounter is the other inmates. Dandeer's mind may contain things stranger and more unpleasant to behold than the inmates of Hell.
Of all the oral histories the Exiles have about the deeds of the Z fighters, the Attestations of Rakkyo were the last to be codified. Rakkyo was the youngest grandchild of Mato the Foremost, who was first leader of the Exiles. He lived to a great age, and by the time he was old, everyone else who personally remembered Earth was long dead, as were most of their children.
Then and only then did he compose the Attestation, when no one who yet lived on Garenhuld could possibly gainsay him. And his public disdain for, and desire to tweak the noses of, some of the other Exile bardic traditions then emerging was pretty clearcut.
There are very, VERY good reasons to believe that the Attestations of Rakkyo are wildly inaccurate, not least because they directly contradict most of the other oral histories on important points.
Speaking OOC:
The Attestation of Rakkyo isn't DBZ Abridged. It contains a lot of things that are, speaking OOC, references to DBZA.
Such as there being a little recording angel who followed Krillin around everywhere and rang a gong whenever he got flattened by someone out of his weight class.
Such as all manner of staggeringly badass lines attributed in particular to Ancestor Vegeta, to Piccolo, and to Tenshinhan.
Such as the Nail Gun, an attack referenced in no other source, and never so much as mentioned by those of the first-generation Exiles who knew Piccolo best.
On the other hand, there are many differences. The Earth pop culture references just aren't there. Rakkyo's Vegeta isn't the butt of as many jokes. Rakkyo's portrayal of Goku isn't a complete and utter idiot, and when he sometimes says profoundly foolish things, it was usually deliberate trolling. Rakkyo's versions of Guru and Mr. Popo bear no resemblance to the DBZA versions. Tenshinhan comes out even more badass. Et cetera.
The Attestation of Rakkyo isn't DBZA.
It's just as close to DBZA as you could get within the limitations of an Exile culture that was already coming to worship Goku and Vegeta, an in which the preferred form of artwork was the oral history, chanted saga, or long written tome.
[ ] Old friends.
[ ] Old family.
[ ] New enemies.
I'll think about those.
"Those above" was thought to be Heaven, and we were right. It is strongly implied that "Those below" would be Hell. And everyone I remember arguing for 'those below' was specifically advocating it because they expected us to meet the kind of people you'd expect to meet in Hell (e.g. Frieza).
Cariyaga, Dandeer's head is NOT A PLACE TO GO. It is full of bad things and Dandeer crazy, and there ain't no crazy like Dandeer crazy. Even were I a god, I would not go inside Dandeer's head, not just because of fear, but because of ickiness.
Going inside Dandeer's head may actually be WORSE than going to Hell, given the way Dragonball Hell works wherein the worst thing you'll encounter is the other inmates. Dandeer's mind may contain things stranger and more unpleasant to behold than the inmates of Hell.
Speaking IC:
Of all the oral histories the Exiles have about the deeds of the Z fighters, the Attestations of Rakkyo were the last to be codified. Rakkyo was the youngest grandchild of Mato the Foremost, who was first leader of the Exiles. He lived to a great age, and by the time he was old, everyone else who personally remembered Earth was long dead, as were most of their children.
Then and only then did he compose the Attestation, when no one who yet lived on Garenhuld could possibly gainsay him. And his public disdain for, and desire to tweak the noses of, some of the other Exile bardic traditions then emerging was pretty clearcut.
There are very, VERY good reasons to believe that the Attestations of Rakkyo are wildly inaccurate, not least because they directly contradict most of the other oral histories on important points.
Speaking OOC:
The Attestation of Rakkyo isn't DBZ Abridged. It contains a lot of things that are, speaking OOC, references to DBZA.
Such as there being a little recording angel who followed Krillin around everywhere and rang a gong whenever he got flattened by someone out of his weight class.
Such as all manner of staggeringly badass lines attributed in particular to Ancestor Vegeta, to Piccolo, and to Tenshinhan.
Such as the Nail Gun, an attack referenced in no other source, and never so much as mentioned by those of the first-generation Exiles who knew Piccolo best.
On the other hand, there are many differences. The Earth pop culture references just aren't there. Rakkyo's Vegeta isn't the butt of as many jokes. Rakkyo's portrayal of Goku isn't a complete and utter idiot, and when he sometimes says profoundly foolish things, it was usually deliberate trolling. Rakkyo's versions of Guru and Mr. Popo bear no resemblance to the DBZA versions. Tenshinhan comes out even more badass. Et cetera.
The Attestation of Rakkyo isn't DBZA.
It's just as close to DBZA as you could get within the limitations of an Exile culture that was already coming to worship Goku and Vegeta, an in which the preferred form of artwork was the oral history, chanted saga, or long written tome.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
We could possibly ask either Gemma or Gohan for advice on where to go for training in, for instance, Seer abilities.
- Location
- Italy
it's High risk High reward. Not necessarily "the wrong choice". And it's likely it would have led us here anyway, maybe it was included just for the simmetry (old/new above/below)
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
No wrong choices, but that hardly means that no option has risk. Merely that they possess commensurate potential rewards.
Nobody has stress-tested the barrier, quite understandably, but you can try that sort of thing now.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
[ ] Old friends.
[ ] Old family.
[ ] New enemies.
OK, 'Old friends' is likely to bring us either to our allies on Garenhuld (hopefully under the Senzus' wards by now, with Dandelor, who can see us) or to old allies of the Z fighters like the Namekians (who have dragonballs and magic, and are likely to be able to see a shade). SOME risk of ending up going back to Garenhuld and getting ganked by a Dandeer trap. Some potential to find a way to anchor our shade to an object or 'magic jar' located within the Senzu wards, which is probably a LOT more secure than having it connected to our present body, which is in Dandeer's control.
Future Kakara told us to find a place to anchor our shade as the first thing we do. We should remember this.
'Old family' is likely to bring us to people blood-related to the Z fighters. Androids 17 and 18 are likely candidates. This is far from the worst thing we could do, but they might not be able to perceive us.
'New enemies' is likely to bring us to the alien fleet. This has interesting potential, especially if the alien fleet's combined population is large enough to support a respectable Spirit Saiyan. Slight problem: the aliens show no signs of knowing any magic, and without magic or psychics, they probably can't see us.
I advocate 'Old friends' as most likely to bring us into contact with someone who can actually see us and help us, or who will benefit from knowing we're alive and wandering the cosmos as a shade.
...
Hm. I think I'd want a vote like:
[ ] Decline, thank Yemma for his time, and make ready to leave. You'll return if you fulfill one of the first two conditions -- or alternatively, if you later feel like taking a crack at Hell.
-[ ] Ask Yemma if you could make a short visit to Gohan now, not to stay, even if only for a matter of minutes.
-[ ] If so, do so. You... would very much like to see Jii-chan again.
-[ ] If not, or if the price would be too high, jump to old friends.
[ ] Old family.
[ ] New enemies.
OK, 'Old friends' is likely to bring us either to our allies on Garenhuld (hopefully under the Senzus' wards by now, with Dandelor, who can see us) or to old allies of the Z fighters like the Namekians (who have dragonballs and magic, and are likely to be able to see a shade). SOME risk of ending up going back to Garenhuld and getting ganked by a Dandeer trap. Some potential to find a way to anchor our shade to an object or 'magic jar' located within the Senzu wards, which is probably a LOT more secure than having it connected to our present body, which is in Dandeer's control.
Future Kakara told us to find a place to anchor our shade as the first thing we do. We should remember this.
'Old family' is likely to bring us to people blood-related to the Z fighters. Androids 17 and 18 are likely candidates. This is far from the worst thing we could do, but they might not be able to perceive us.
'New enemies' is likely to bring us to the alien fleet. This has interesting potential, especially if the alien fleet's combined population is large enough to support a respectable Spirit Saiyan. Slight problem: the aliens show no signs of knowing any magic, and without magic or psychics, they probably can't see us.
I advocate 'Old friends' as most likely to bring us into contact with someone who can actually see us and help us, or who will benefit from knowing we're alive and wandering the cosmos as a shade.
...
Hm. I think I'd want a vote like:
[ ] Decline, thank Yemma for his time, and make ready to leave. You'll return if you fulfill one of the first two conditions -- or alternatively, if you later feel like taking a crack at Hell.
-[ ] Ask Yemma if you could make a short visit to Gohan now, not to stay, even if only for a matter of minutes.
-[ ] If so, do so. You... would very much like to see Jii-chan again.
-[ ] If not, or if the price would be too high, jump to old friends.
Wait, that's still a thing?
Yemma is literally the busiest person in the cosmos. He will say no, and probably think we are dumb for even asking, though he will probably be too nice to say anything about it. Probably.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Folks just stopped using it for some reason.
VicSage
Not Crazy
- Location
- Czechoslovakia
What if we traded a bunch of souls in so that we could go through a nicer spot in hell? Like where the Greek Philosophers are at?
CaesriusPolybius
Worldgate Mechanic
- Location
- United States. Ish.
... a, what do you mean "trade in"?
B, where would we acquire these souls to trade with?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The thing is, we haven't done anything that would stick us in Hell, and Dragonball Hell doesn't thirst for souls the way Christian Hell does. It's basically just celestial jail for bad souls that the rest of the afterlife doesn't want to have to deal with.
What you're proposing is that if an innocent person shows up at a jailhouse door with a bunch of other random people to throw in jail, they can get a nice comfy cell in a minimum-security prison for themselves. Jail doesn't work that way.
I don't understand the question, by the way.
You know, I want to at some point emphasize to Dazarel:
"The first time you crossed me, you tried to eat all my planet's energy. I took all my planet's energy, used it to invent a whole new category of transformation, and beat you into the dirt with it, then led my people in Sealing you as this."
"The second time you crossed me, I reached into you and ripped your spirit out so I could bring you along on this little road trip of mine."
"I really am a nice girl. But don't cross me again, okay? I haven't figured out what I'll do the third time, but I'm going to really go all out."
I mean, you can believe the Attestation of Rakkyo to be an accurate guide to the deeds of the Z fighters.
You'll just be wrong.
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VicSage
Not Crazy
- Location
- Czechoslovakia
You were referencing Annin in a previous post, and how she might be incredibly important to the exiles as a part of our saga. I'm curious as to how a character as minor as Maron would have fit into the stories. A tale about love not necessarily being your first? Or something else?
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I think we mostly asked the questions that had been bugging us for a long time.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I figure Maron (as in, Krillin's love interest during that one arc) is about as irrelevant to the Exiles as to us, because from their point of view, she's a girl that one of the Ancestors used to date before he courted and won the love of a woman who was far more powerful than himself and became another of the Ancestors.
The Exiles may not even know she ever lived.
Annin is important to them because of her role in the "how Goku came to marry Chi-Chi" story, which is specifically important because the marriage of Goku and Chi-Chi is so important. And that's a story they would surely have learned.
nkd1325
KNIGHT OF ORANGE
- Location
- AT HIS MAJESTY'S SIDE
I'll just throw my two cents into this.
No going to hell that's idiotic with out current PL. If we had full power and SS2 i'd consider it by 1/20th and just FPSS1 no thank you.
As for where I say either
Old friends(Namek or Buu most likely there) or
Old Family(17 and 18) and hope they have a wizard or psychic in their crew(they're warlords now if I recall?)
No going to hell that's idiotic with out current PL. If we had full power and SS2 i'd consider it by 1/20th and just FPSS1 no thank you.
As for where I say either
Old friends(Namek or Buu most likely there) or
Old Family(17 and 18) and hope they have a wizard or psychic in their crew(they're warlords now if I recall?)
- Location
- Italy
Eh, stick and carrots. Right now we lack sticks.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
See, that's the thing, you bet.
bet- v. to stake on the outcome of an issue or the performance of a contestant
Betting implies the possibility of losing. Losing in Hell is bad. Hell is a home for infinite losers, that is to say, a place for losing infinitely. It is the home of people who lose infinitely. We do not want to lose in Hell. We do not want Hell to become our home.
I mean, in a quest where there's a definite afterlife and leaving it is possible, "dying" is not automatically a bad end. "dying while already being in Hell and getting stuck there," on the other hand, probably IS.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
...Is there a reason you're quoting the dictionary at me? I am aware of what I said.
- Location
- Italy
I agree with everything, but I'd like to take a moment to remember the only 2 people we know to be sent to hell that came back from it: Vegeta and Frieza. They managed to not infinitely lose
WorthyAlchemist?
100% certifiably without-a-doubt mediocre
- Location
- That place...yeah that one
So... does anyone have a guess as to where old enemies takes us. It's not hell so that's something but I'm kinda stumped beyond that.
- Location
- Somewhere I shouldn't be
Most likely the scouts, the invaders, or Dandeer.
Modus_Tollens
SCREAMING AT THE APOCALYPSE
- Location
- ALSO SCREAMING.
Hell... is something to go through eventually. We will do it. We won't do it yet. Taking things in their proper order will probably be superior in terms of reward as much as safety so it isn't something to miss. Its just something to anticipate.
- Location
- Italy
If he's alive maybe Frieza. Or buu. 17 and 18 technically work as well.