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@PoptartProdigyI mean, being able to 'Nope.' QI attacks that don't totally outclass you seems like it would trivialize most fights, so I expect it to be difficult, but it takes a moment to prepare, and it's not as useful against a bunch of smaller attacks versus a single large one or a small set of medium ones. Our KI Control and Sensing are likely major factors, but if anything outside Social is our strong suit, it's those.
I'm not sure what happened in the clip either, but..

Tenshinhan had a technique capable of reflecting ki blasts (or at least the Kamehahema), which he used in his first fight against Yamcha, so if reflecting ki attacks count as "noping" them, it might be doable, especially if we can ask him about it in the otherworld.
 
Making rules sheet today. Ask again later.

I'm not actually 100% clear about what's going on in that clip. Something about a ghostly face? I noticed a skeleton getting obliterated by a beam the size of a house.

I mean, you can pull that one off, but I really doubt that it's what you meant.

I'm not sure what happened in the clip either, but..

Tenshinhan had a technique capable of reflecting ki blasts (or at least the Kamehahema), which he used in his first fight against Yamcha, so if reflecting ki attacks count as "noping" them, it might be doable, especially if we can ask him about it in the otherworld.

What happened is that magical constructs, used to attack, were taken control of by a being that ran on souls. The ability was referred to as Rhabdophobia, referencing it's secondary meaning, fear of magic. I was wondering if we could do something similar if we worked at it. Being able to simply send weak QI attacks back would make undirected blasts a lot less of a problem, possibly to the point of making them more help to us than harm. The ability has two main issues that I can see. First, while it does great against singular or a small set of attacks, if someone is just sending a massive swarm at you, and can continue to send a massive swarm of smaller blasts at you, then they'll be able to more or less ignore it. Second, it's a massive power-drain to use, so it's meant to finish the fight quickly or prevent a takedown. It takes a moment to prepare too, though that instant is less than the IT gesture, and a lot harder to get a read for. There's also the issue of the maximum radius being pretty small on the scale of DBZ fights, but that can be worked around.

The thing using it in that video used it to turn their opponent's strongest attack against them, and it's pretty heavily implied it was specifically designed to kill magic-users. I figure our high KI Sensing and Control can substitute for being designed to do that sort of thing from the ground up.

While I have your attention, how hard would strings of QI that let us puppeteer people be? They don't affect the mind, but the body, QI, and magic (and Sight presumably) are all at you command, due to wrapping around the soul. This means it also functions as a kill-switch if you really want, though Kakara wouldn't do that. The downside is that making the strings takes time, and it's not hard to cut the string if you aren't strung up. They're really only useful if you take the target by surprise, corner them, or they're unconscious, and you're puppeting their body to get them off the field. Although being a SSJ and the other guy isn't works for that to.
 
What happened is that magical constructs, used to attack, were taken control of by a being that ran on souls. The ability was referred to as Rhabdophobia, referencing it's secondary meaning, fear of magic. I was wondering if we could do something similar if we worked at it. Being able to simply send weak QI attacks back would make undirected blasts a lot less of a problem, possibly to the point of making them more help to us than harm. The ability has two main issues that I can see. First, while it does great against singular or a small set of attacks, if someone is just sending a massive swarm at you, and can continue to send a massive swarm of smaller blasts at you, then they'll be able to more or less ignore it. Second, it's a massive power-drain to use, so it's meant to finish the fight quickly or prevent a takedown. It takes a moment to prepare too, though that instant is less than the IT gesture, and a lot harder to get a read for. There's also the issue of the maximum radius being pretty small on the scale of DBZ fights, but that can be worked around.

The thing using it in that video used it to turn their opponent's strongest attack against them, and it's pretty heavily implied it was specifically designed to kill magic-users. I figure our high KI Sensing and Control can substitute for being designed to do that sort of thing from the ground up.

While I have your attention, how hard would strings of QI that let us puppeteer people be? They don't affect the mind, but the body, QI, and magic (and Sight presumably) are all at you command, due to wrapping around the soul. This means it also functions as a kill-switch if you really want, though Kakara wouldn't do that. The downside is that making the strings takes time, and it's not hard to cut the string if you aren't strung up. They're really only useful if you take the target by surprise, corner them, or they're unconscious, and you're puppeting their body to get them off the field. Although being a SSJ and the other guy isn't works for that to.
You already can deal with lesser ki blasts. It's an application of ki control. Takes a fair amount of focus, though.

You can use TK to move other people, but TK is easier to break than a grip. That's the kind of innovation that would almost certainly be an Elite+ talent.
 
You already can deal with lesser ki blasts. It's an application of ki control. Takes a fair amount of focus, though.

You can use TK to move other people, but TK is easier to break than a grip. That's the kind of innovation that would almost certainly be an Elite+ talent.

So, how hard would it be to make that something we can do at a distance further than contact?

So, a couple APs of working on it to make it possible, and a couple more to make it worthwile?
 
I'm not sure what happened in the clip either, but..

Tenshinhan had a technique capable of reflecting ki blasts (or at least the Kamehahema), which he used in his first fight against Yamcha, so if reflecting ki attacks count as "noping" them, it might be doable, especially if we can ask him about it in the otherworld.
That was a kiai. It works by flaring your aura, it is basically the same as when you power up and create a crater but used as defense.
 
You can use TK to move other people, but TK is easier to break than a grip. That's the kind of innovation that would almost certainly be an Elite+ talent.
i want to understand one thing: A complete innovation like machine sense, perfect multiform or this ki puppeteering are elite+ talent.

But once they're not... well, new anymore, can they be taught? Can they only be taught as elite+ talents?

Let's say there were three people each with a different elite+ talent for the same skill/technique, could one person be taught all three by them, or would he/she be limited to only two (one for elite, one for legendary)?
 
i want to understand one thing: A complete innovation like machine sense, perfect multiform or this ki puppeteering are elite+ talent.

But once they're not... well, new anymore, can they be taught? Can they only be taught as elite+ talents?

Let's say there were three people each with a different elite+ talent for the same skill/technique, could one person be taught all three by them, or would he/she be limited to only two (one for elite, one for legendary)?
Limited to two.
 
That was a kiai. It works by flaring your aura, it is basically the same as when you power up and create a crater but used as defense.
I don't think it was a kiai, actually, or at least not an ordnary one. Tenshinhan made a lot of weird arm movements before he deflected Yamcha's Kamehameha, which seems more indicative of an advanced technique than a kiai. Goku, Roshi and Tenshinhan also all seemed convinced that Goku using a mid-air Kamehameha on Tenshinhan when they were both falling down towards the ground would be pointless, so reflecting it wasn't just possible because Tenshinhan was stronger than Yamcha

So, even the technique was a kiai (which might be the case), I think it was at the very least a very special type designed to reflect ki blasts.
 
I don't think it was a kiai, actually, or at least not an ordnary one. Tenshinhan made a lot of weird arm movements before he deflected Yamcha's Kamehameha, which seems more indicative of an advanced technique than a kiai. Goku, Roshi and Tenshinhan also all seemed convinced that Goku using a mid-air Kamehameha on Tenshinhan when they were both falling down towards the ground would be pointless, so reflecting it wasn't just possible because Tenshinhan was stronger than Yamcha

So, even the technique was a kiai (which might be the case), I think it was at the very least a very special type designed to reflect ki blasts.
*Checks manga* Uh, look at that, you are right. My mistake.
 
I mean... as far as the rematch goes, we could just do something... unusual and Kakara-y, like trying to talk down Yammar the same way we had intended to just now. Try to get him to think his way around the block Dandeer put on hating her.

Imagine what it would be like to hate her. He can't do that? Gee, I wonder if there's a convenient Dandeer-shaped reason for that...

After all, it doesn't take hatred to kill her.
 
So, how hard would it be to make that something we can do at a distance further than contact?

So, a couple APs of working on it to make it possible, and a couple more to make it worthwile?
Probably harder. Kakara's not sure why she'd want to.

You don't have action points anymore.
i want to understand one thing: A complete innovation like machine sense, perfect multiform or this ki puppeteering are elite+ talent.

But once they're not... well, new anymore, can they be taught? Can they only be taught as elite+ talents?

Let's say there were three people each with a different elite+ talent for the same skill/technique, could one person be taught all three by them, or would he/she be limited to only two (one for elite, one for legendary)?
Once something has been unlocked, it can be taught with far less investment on the learner's part. This is, basically, how civilization evolves. Somebody learns how to do something, and they teach it to somebody else. A person learns that seeds dropped on earth sprout tastiness the following year, and tells their whole tribe. Once, "make fire," was an elite talent of the Stick skill.

Which means that it'd be tough, but yeah, somebody could learn all of those. Issue is getting those people to share techniques.
 
I mean... as far as the rematch goes, we could just do something... unusual and Kakara-y, like trying to talk down Yammar the same way we had intended to just now. Try to get him to think his way around the block Dandeer put on hating her.

Imagine what it would be like to hate her. He can't do that? Gee, I wonder if there's a convenient Dandeer-shaped reason for that...

After all, it doesn't take hatred to kill her.
Or we could appeal to his appreciation for power, and offer to teach him the secret of Spirit Bomb.
 
I mean... as far as the rematch goes, we could just do something... unusual and Kakara-y, like trying to talk down Yammar the same way we had intended to just now. Try to get him to think his way around the block Dandeer put on hating her.

Imagine what it would be like to hate her. He can't do that? Gee, I wonder if there's a convenient Dandeer-shaped reason for that...

After all, it doesn't take hatred to kill her.
I think this has been proposed before and iirc Kakara's opinion was that the spell would probably make him forget or ignore the question.
 
I mean... as far as the rematch goes, we could just do something... unusual and Kakara-y, like trying to talk down Yammar the same way we had intended to just now. Try to get him to think his way around the block Dandeer put on hating her.

Imagine what it would be like to hate her. He can't do that? Gee, I wonder if there's a convenient Dandeer-shaped reason for that...

After all, it doesn't take hatred to kill her.
If we're still spitballing about the Yammar fight, I don't think it's fair to use knowledge gained since the fight, so we can't use the stuff about magic...

...If we were willing to go for an all-or-nothing Communications check, we could tell Yammar that both him and Dandeer have been sorcerously compromised, and that we'll willingly surrender if he'll swear an Oath to get his head checked out by experts before Dandeer wakes up. It would fit with why we're fighting them from his point of view, and doesn't cast Dandeer in a bad light. Specifically claiming that Dandeer got whammied harder due to her expertise and that him getting treated first is part of the Oath would probably work, if he agreed.

I very much doubt it would even have been thought of before the update showed the folly of fighting though, so I don't think I'd feel comfortable doing it even if it would work.

I mean, unless Poptart rolls a dice and says on a 95+ the whole second half of the update was just our Sight going batshit overdrive.
 
If we're still spitballing about the Yammar fight, I don't think it's fair to use knowledge gained since the fight, so we can't use the stuff about magic...

...If we were willing to go for an all-or-nothing Communications check, we could tell Yammar that both him and Dandeer have been sorcerously compromised, and that we'll willingly surrender if he'll swear an Oath to get his head checked out by experts before Dandeer wakes up. It would fit with why we're fighting them from his point of view, and doesn't cast Dandeer in a bad light. Specifically claiming that Dandeer got whammied harder due to her expertise and that him getting treated first is part of the Oath would probably work, if he agreed.

I very much doubt it would even have been thought of before the update showed the folly of fighting though, so I don't think I'd feel comfortable doing it even if it would work.

I mean, unless Poptart rolls a dice and says on a 95+ the whole second half of the update was just our Sight going batshit overdrive.
If Poptart's comfortable with us doing that kind of hail mary I don't mind it myself.
 
Meh. I presume a loophole like that fits under the category of "reasons to disobey Dandeer" since the point of it seems to be to try to undermine her authority/state of mind.

I'mma be honest, the thing that attracted me to this quest and kept me was the fact it was a Dragon Ball quest with a large word count. So while the politics was okay I wouldn't actually mind going to space. Plus we'd get to see more than just Garanhuld.
 
As someone who just finished reading this entire thing and really didn't like the opening pitch for the setting, my only issue with going to space is that it feels like everything on Garanhuld is going to be left behind and most progress made in the quest will get erased.

Also won't we just be an invisible ghost in space?
 
As someone who just finished reading this entire thing and really didn't like the opening pitch for the setting, my only issue with going to space is that it feels like everything on Garanhuld is going to be left behind and most progress made in the quest will get erased.

Also won't we just be an invisible ghost in space?
That seems like a pointlessly roundabout way of killing the quest.
 
That seems like a pointlessly roundabout way of killing the quest.
That's just what my reaction to the last story post was, it is in no way rational or really based on what happened. But this quest was really good and got me caught up in the wild ride and the emotional gutpunch of the defeat threw me for a massive loop.

Like, I'm assuming I'm wrong and everything. But I'm hesitant to read through the discussion to reassure myself after seeing the mod warnings.
 
That's just what my reaction to the last story post was, it is in no way rational or really based on what happened. But this quest was really good and got me caught up in the wild ride and the emotional gutpunch of the defeat threw me for a massive loop.

Like, I'm assuming I'm wrong and everything. But I'm hesitant to read through the discussion to reassure myself after seeing the mod warnings.
...yeah, I'll cop that the discussion following this latest update is not really the best place to introduce oneself to AtE.
 
Public Mechanics Reveal
Well, this has gotten somewhat morose. You know what might cheer things up?

RULES SCREEN UPDATE!!!

That's right, the mechanics are now out there and explicit, free for the reading in the Rules Screen, under Informational Threadmarks. In addition to this, I have done some minor changes to the Character Sheet, also under Informational Threadmarks. These changes include standardized language on traits, and some slight mechanics tweaks that were already in the pipe before this whole thing happened. Head ye on down and have a look at what we've got, if you've an interest! By all means, give me feedback on if I've overlooked some edge case, or if my explanations are unclear.
 
I dropped it until Poptart had had time to cool off, which they asked me to do. I was also under the impression that people were mostly voting to 'stay the course' because the rules were at stake, not because they didn't want to try the 'trap vote'. And that you agreed with that assessment.
By the way, @PoptartProdigy, this is the omake I wrote:

I'd like to write at least one more omake for controlled willpower pushing, but I'd be sad if it couldn't affect the Yammar fight. I wrote two things already, just for that specific fight, and not getting even a textual nod to the cleverer strategies would be very disappointing.
I am in favor of staying the course period, not just for the rules.
 
Once something has been unlocked, it can be taught with far less investment on the learner's part. This is, basically, how civilization evolves. Somebody learns how to do something, and they teach it to somebody else. A person learns that seeds dropped on earth sprout tastiness the following year, and tells their whole tribe. Once, "make fire," was an elite talent of the Stick skill.

Which means that it'd be tough, but yeah, somebody could learn all of those. Issue is getting those people to share techniques.
I'm curious how this works. Like, if Kakara masters Machine Sensing, and teaches it to others until it becomes standard, would she keep it as an Elite talent, or would it cease to be one?

And either way, could it be eventually replaced, or is two innovations in a skill the limit for any one character?
 
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I'm curious how this works. Like, if Kakara masters Machine Sensing, and teaches it to others until it becomes standard, would she keep it as an Elite talent, or would it cease to be one?

And either way, could it be eventually replaced, or is two innovations in a skill the limit for any one character?
She would keep it as an Elite talent, because she did not learn it as standard. Once you have it, you keep it; that's entirely for game design reasons.

I might change my mind on this, but presently that is the implementation.



Also:

GAH SO MANY DAMN TYPOS IN THOSE RULES WHAT WAS I THINKING FIX FIX-
 
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