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Dragon Ball: After the End

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I'll also say that I'm pretty sure she does have some interesting personality thing going on; see my Jekyl and Hyde theory a few pages back. Still, it's not enough to make me respect her, and between that and the idiot comments, I'm getting a bit of saiyan pride snubbage here.
 
ShadowAngelBeta said:
I've cared less and less about this story as time has gone on. The current conflict was just not compelling, mostly because Dandeer is not really a good villain. She's evil, she mind-rapes everyone, she's likely more than a little insane by this point, but she's... not completely flat as a character, but she's close. It's a different medium, you can't expect what worked for Toriyama in manga and anime to work in a text format.

Also... I kind of remember this being presented as "Dragon Ball grown up" in a way at some point. Politics and the like being important, but then we deal with what amounts to a straight-up, two dimensional, ye olde Dragon Ball villain? *Skeptical noises*
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Except that's not what she is.
Freeza, Cell, Buu and Vegeta were all entertaining and interesting.
Dandeer is worse.
 
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Bakkasama said:
Uh, people. Can we calm down a bit? Personally, I have no issues with the update and I think we had plenty of opportunities to vote and do things differently. I also don't see much pointon writting a post just to say you are leaving the quest since the only thing that accomplishes is souring the mood of the quest more.

Out of all the people who complained about the update though, I think that @Simon_Jester is one of the only ones to make what I consider a valid point since he pointed out this post:



I mean, I liked the update and if it stood alone I would see nothing wrong with it since the winning vote was use as a shield/flail which implies fighting but since THAT was explicitly adressed by the @PoptartProdigy that is a legitimate reason to be angry though not, in my opinion, for the vitriol in some posts.

Anyways, I trust the QM to keep the story interesting and make a fair judgement once this issue is pointed out. THAT SAID I would still recommend for there to be some pause before the next update to let the salt die down. Some of the proposed votes (aiming for SS2 and salt down the planet) seem to be done out of spite and that is not a good mentality.

If the updates keeps, I think proceding as planned seems like the best option since it is the one which seems has the greater chance of success when taken in isolation.
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Regardless of your thoughts on the matter, people are allowed to discuss their displeasure. Simon's just had the patience most of us didn't to eloquently outline why the thread is upset.

Also there's always salt votes. Kill yourself came up a few votes back. It's fine, no ones going to vote for them.
 
...It was Hot-Blooded, wasn't it. Yammar picked apart all of our priorities and life decisions and hit the triggers. The right insult was offered, so Kakara lost her head and the vote would have been weighted too heavily towards aggressive responses to be anything more than a tease.
 
Akiri said:
...It was Hot-Blooded, wasn't it. Yammar picked apart all of our priorities and life decisions and hit the triggers. The right insult was offered, so Kakara lost her head and the vote would have been weighted too heavily towards aggressive responses to be anything more than a tease.
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The fuck?
Do we still even have hot-blooded?
 
@PoptartProdigy
I love your quest. It contains one of the best DBZ fanfic stories I have ever read.

I do not actively participate in your quest. The large player base, combined with the in depth debates, voting plans, and fast paced thread means I don't have the time to give most votes the attention they deserve before they end.

This latest turn of events is important to me, as it feels things in the quest have changed to drastically impact things in the storie you want to tell. I believe that the fairly recent thread rule you implemented about simplfing voting is to blame.

@Simon_Jester was one of many who had a plan, which they couldn't actually do under the voting rules as they stand. It was, as I understood it, a three step process. First, try and distract the opposition by turning the mind wamy spell involving the sorcerers against them. Second, grab the unconscious enemy and use them to start force the remaining enemy to disengage. Third, call a vote immediately afterward implement the next part of the plan.

Simon asked you, specifically, if we would have a chance to vote on what to do once we grabbed our Saiyan enemy, as he intended, or if miunderstood the implication and we would go right into battle. You said that he had the interpretation of that vote that you we using.

I believe that you either willfully or unintentionally misinterpreted what he meant. We grabbed our flail and immediately jumped into combat. Did failing the distraction part give Yammar a chance to goad us directly into the fight, and thus remove player agency directly through game mechanics? Or was that just how you interpreted this vote?

Frankly, I don't vote in this quest often. I don't have the spare time to participate in the thread, and I respect the story being told to much to bandwagon mindlessly and ignore discussion. I am certain that the story you will tell will be worth reading.

But your player base is hurt over this loss. I know that it feels like they are hurt because they lost. But I think people are more hurt over the time that they spent being wasted. I've recent spent time rereading the quest from the previous story post to the current one. There are a lot a people who had these drawn out detailed plans that basically diverged in ways that would have split the vote. Most of the those plan did not get discussed in great detail beyond the first steps.

The change in vote structure, I believe, hurt your player agency. More and more I have seen players hurt over what they voted for not being how the vote was interpreted. This was one of the worst I have ever seen.

Instead of just reading the hurt comments and agreeing with them, I want to ask you something. When did we hit the point of no return towards losing this fight? Because I think it happened when we first started getting vision flashes this fight. Was it even earlier, when we started the "final" confrontation?
 
chryssalideater said:
The fuck?
Do we still even have hot-blooded?
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Still on the character sheet.

PoptartProdigy said:
Hot-Blooded: While you are a gentle girl, you don't take kindly to insults or abuse. You have a fiery temper, and, while you have great practice in restraining it, sometimes lose your head when the right insult is offered. Your QM has identified certain triggers. When those triggers are hit, heavy vote weighting will come into effect favoring aggressive and to a lesser extent violent responses. Under threat of loss from player base choices.
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Why are people acting like Kakara losing is a new thing? I get that it's a show of solidarity and people are trying to stand with Poptart, which is good because if I were Poptart I'd be feeling a little attacked right now, but Kakara loses. A lot. She has been losing pretty frequently this whole quest. Heck, the entire quest is practically based around the fact that we lost a fight that was basically unwinnable. The fact we lost another fight that was basically unwinnable isn't some grand change of form just because we got lucky against the dragon.
 
Aranfan said:
@PoptartProdigy

Thank you for letting the MC lose.
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You mean like the other times we lost?
This isn't a matter of being allowed to lose it's feels far more like we've been set up to fail.
At every single turn Dandeer has managed to pull something out of her ass to succeed.

There has never been any way we could have known about these to either avoid or counteract them.
 
Simon_Jester said:
I dunno. I don't really care right now, because I don't trust outcomes to correlate meaningfully with intentions.
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I'm kind of feeling the same way. Apathy, I guess? I suspect if we were to split the playerbase on how they feel about the update, we'd see a very string correlation between people who like to "play" quests as a game with heavy story elements and people upset by our apparent loss of agency, and the same with people who are here more to read a story and people who don't mind the loss. I felt my enthusiasm for the quest drain after the vote got retconned previously, but I didn't really raise a fuss because Poptart was explicitly trying to involve lower-investment voters, which, fine, whatever. Now the vote is rendered pretty pointless again, and as a result a great deal of player effort and thought has been rendered pretty irrelevant - which works great in a story, but feels really terrible from a player perspective.

I think this was a great update from a story perspective, but it's a shitty update from a game perspective, and I'm wondering (and have actually been wondering for a little while now) if maybe I'm just not the target audience for the quest. Which is fine - if Poptart wants to write a quest that caters 100% to the more story-oriented players, more power to them.

Maybe we should just fuck off for a year or two and come back and read it as a story after the fact?
 
I'll second that having only really deciding to get involved in active voting recently, I probably wouldn't have cared too much about losing there. Now, I still don't, but considering the future is a much more exclhausting prospect. I have great sympathy for everyone who consistantly voted from the beginning, because it certainly hasn't been an easy time.
 
chryssalideater said:
....WHY? HAS THAT EVER BEEN RELEVANT TO HOW KAKARA ACTED SINCE SHE WAS LIKE, 7? That's dumb.
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Honestly, I'm not sure if it was even a thing then. We got it when were were trying to goad Jaffur into taking his medicine. But it has affected us since then, in the chat with Dandeer some years back, and I think it was a factor when we blew up that mountain.
 
The only times we lost in this game was the sealing, which was tutorial modo.

And here.

Every other time we won. We won at Garenhuld II (the religious meeting), we won against the scouts and Dazareal, and we won everything we tried our hand at during the tournament. Which isn't even bringing up the massive boosts to our reputation that was golden oozaru and spirit bomb. We won all our interviews and shit.
 
Aranfan said:
The only times we lost in this game was the sealing, which was tutorial modo.

And here.

Every other time we won. We won at Garenhuld II (the religious meeting), we won against the scouts and Dazareal, and we won everything we tried our hand at during the tournament. Which isn't even bringing up the massive boosts to our reputation that was golden oozaru and spirit bomb. We won all our interviews and shit.
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Well, there was the fight with the scout too but it wasn't a big one.
 
Aranfan said:
The only times we lost in this game was the sealing, which was tutorial modo.

And here.

Every other time we won. We won at Garenhuld II (the religious meeting), we won against the scouts and Dazareal, and we won everything we tried our hand at during the tournament. Which isn't even bringing up the massive boosts to our reputation that was golden oozaru and spirit bomb. We won all our interviews and shit.
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Just because ignore was the tutorial didn't mean it was a guaranteed loss. According to poptart, that all got rolled for. Even if it was scripted, the fact remains that a loss has effectively been the driving plot thread of the past two years.
 
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