Voting is open
How do we get there before Yammar does?
I don't think you understood me properly.

I have no problem with using the memory as a gimmick to hopefully distract him for a moment.

My objection was to the idea of us standing there spamming the massacre-memories at Yammar i]over and over[/i] to do what was earlier described as "stun-locking" him. Among other things because even if that successful, we'd just be standing there in a staring match with Yammar until, in all probability, someone regains consciousness on their own. What if that someone is Vegeta? Locking down Yammar at the cost of locking ourselves down isn't the worst outcome we could get here, but it's not a good outcome and has no clear path to victory unless Yammar actually manages to break the memory spell. Which he MIGHT, but he was clearly one of the spell's prime targets and he may not be resisting it very hard right now.

And what, just leave the Senzu's and our downed allies to die?
So far Yammar has shown surprising unwillingness to kill downed opponents who are no longer a threat to Dandeer. If we kidnap Dandeer and flee into space, he MIGHT try to retaliate by taking hostages, it's possible. I don't know what we do then, I admit.

But it'd be out of pattern with his current behavior for him to just randomly kill those people purely because they're there. He COULD have killed Apra, and more to the point he could definitely have gorily killed the Senzus in the time available; if they're NOT smashed to pieces and scattered all over the place it's almost certainly because Yammar is deliberately trying not to kill them.

...

Let's be clear, I figure the memory blast has a chance of working ONCE, maybe even a few times. I don't expect it to be something we can use fifty times in a row to stun Yammar fifty times in a row. Sooner or later either he'll get irritated (as per the spell's effect on US) and block us out, or he'll just attack us, or he'll decide he knows and doesn't care, or something.

first assumes he'll just let us do these things. trying the same trick twice against a very experienced opponent is a terrible idea.
Er, what, the Dandeer-flail? Well, firstly we haven't used it against HIM, secondly, the hope is that we can use her as a human shield/hostage, which is a generic tactic that SHOULD work against Yammar in at least the minimal sense of making him hesitate long enough for us to do something else.

The entire point here is to distract him momentarily, teleport to Dandeer which forces him to think for a moment before reacting, during which moment we do something else. Because we can't possibly beat this guy without doing something directly against him, and if he's not distracted or otherwise limited in his tactical options when we do it, we're likely to fail.

second Even super saiyans can't breathe in space,
We've been explicitly told we can survive in space with air packed into our aura long enough to pull this off. Even with a passenger.

not to mention telepathy is harder to precisely target the further you send it so it'd be impossible to not tell every human what's going on.
The Spirit Saiyan connection seems to enable us to make telepathic contact more precisely- notice that we were able to make some individualized pitches during our use of the Spirit Bomb against Dazarel, including some I am pretty sure were made well beyond the normal "tight-beam" range of our telepathy.

Furthermore, if we're worried about infosec, we can just go with a pitch like:

Another threat has come, trying to sow discord and manipulate us, to turn us against each other for their own gain. But if we stand together, we can defeat anything. We know it. We've done it. Give me your energy, once again!

It's not a lie. Not even a bit.

For that matter, we could probably get a substantial boost just from the native life of Garenhuld itself, without drawing on any person for power and needing to contact them directly.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Gore17 on Sep 1, 2018 at 4:44 AM, finished with 30751 posts and 22 votes.

  • [X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
    - [X] Telepathicly transmit the memories of Dandeer's slaughter of the Vegetan sorceres to Yammar.
    - [X] IT over to Dandeer and use her as a shield/flail.
    [X] At this point you need something exceptional. Visions show you things you'd think were relevant, right? Let it in and see what it has to say, as long as you're already out for the moment and nobody is defending themselves.
    [X]Eat a senzu bean, then IT to Dandeer and grab her as a saiyan shield again.
    [X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
    -[X] IT over to Dandeer, and use her as a shield.
    -[X] Ask Yammar why there are Over Nine Thousand fewer Vegetan Sorcerors than there were twelve years ago.
    [X] Eat a Senzu Bean
    - [X] IT to the other side of the planet
    - [X] Go Spirit Saiyan
    [X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
    -[X] Telepathicly transmit the memories of Dandeer's slaughter of the Vegetan sorceres to Yammar.
    -[X] Fire a healing beam of ki at Jaffur.
    [x] IT to the other side of the planet
    -[x] Go spirit saiyan
    [X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
    -[X] IT over to Dandeer, and use her as a shield.
    -[X] Then IT to the other side of the Sun, and begin charging a Spirit Bomb. Use a multiform if necessary to request the energy.
    -[X] And send a Multiform back to wake up Jaffur.
    1. [X] Telepathically transmit the memories of Dandeer's slaughter of the Vegetan sorceres to Yammar.
    -[X] Possible line of argument, to be used at Kakara's discretion: Dandeer has done terrible harm to House Vegeta and Clan Vegeta, and if she succeeds, she won't need a clan of super-saiyan royals anymore; she can control as many super-saiyans as she likes if she isn't stopped.
    -[X] Possible line of argument, to be used at Kakara's discretion: Dandeer did a MUCH worse thing than Yammar has ever done, but Yammar has a horrible reputation for his actions, while Dandeer's crimes aren't even remembered. Yammar should not be protecting Dandeer,in light of this.
    [X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
    -[X] Try to persuade Yammar to stop fighting via Communications.
    [X] Plan Screaming Saiyans
    -[X] Take another bean, get back up, and fight.
    --[X] Keep your distance and fight defensively. Your goal isn't to knock out Yammar, but to prevent him from doing the same to you as well as healing his allies.
    -[X] Broadcast to every single Saiyan on Garenhuld that you're trying to break the Sealing, Dandeer is mind-controlling Yammar and Berra and that they need to scream at Yammar right now.
    [X] Try to persuade Yammar to stop fighting via Communications.
    -[X] Telepathically transmit the memories of Dandeer's slaughter of the Vegetan sorceres to Yammar.
    -[X] Possible line of argument, to be used at Kakara's discretion: Dandeer has done terrible harm to House Vegeta and Clan Vegeta, and if she succeeds, she won't need a clan of super-saiyan royals anymore; she can control as many super-saiyans as she likes if she isn't stopped.
    -[X] Possible line of argument, to be used at Kakara's discretion: Dandeer did a MUCH worse thing than Yammar has ever done, but Yammar has a horrible reputation for his actions, while Dandeer's crimes aren't even remembered. Yammar should not be protecting Dandeer,in light of this.
    [X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
    -[X] IT over to Dandeer, and use her as a shield.
    -[X] Then IT to the other side of the Sun, and begin charging a Spirit Bomb. Use a multiform if necessary to request the energy.
    [X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
    -[X] IT over to Dandeer, and use her as a shield.
    -[X] Ask Yammar why there are Over Nine Thousand fewer Vegetan Sorcerors than there were twelve years ago. Show him the answer.
    -[X] And heal Jaffur/anyone else convenient while he's distracted.
    [X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
    - [X] Telepathicly transmit the memories of Dandeer's slaughter of the Vegetan sorceres to Yammar.
    [X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
    -[X] Telepathicly transmit the memories of Dandeer's slaughter of the Vegetan sorceres to Yammar.
    -[X] IT over to Dandeer and use her as a shield/flail.
    [X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
    -[X] Try to persuade Yammar to stop fighting via Communications.
    -[X] Telepathically transmit the memories of Dandeer's slaughter of the Vegetan sorceres to Yammar.
    -[X] Possible line of argument, to be used at Kakara's discretion: Dandeer has done terrible harm to House Vegeta and Clan Vegeta, and if she succeeds, she won't need a clan of super-saiyan royals anymore; she can control as many super-saiyans as she likes if she isn't stopped.
    -[X] Possible line of argument, to be used at Kakara's discretion: Dandeer did a MUCH worse thing than Yammar has ever done, but Yammar has a horrible reputation for his actions, while Dandeer's crimes aren't even remembered. Yammar should not be protecting Dandeer,in light of this.
    [X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
    - [X] IT over to Dandeer and use her as a shield/flail.
 
Ownwow, missed these.
Fair enough. I just want to do more, because the short updates are tiring me.

@PoptartProdigy, you should probably mark this too.
I hadn't interpreted them as omakes as much as I had players posting jokes.
One more thing, @PoptartProdigy: Maya Webley's Skills > Combat > Hand-to-Hand include an incomplete 'for that matter' sentence. I'd like to know what you were going to say.
Not my sheet.
 
Figured.

So, practical upshot: we may be able to slip a packet of memories to Yammar once since he seems inclined to talk and probably doesn't expect us to be able to throw some kind of mind-bomb at him using ki telepathy. If he forgets entirely about the first attempt AND reverts to the state he was in before we made it, we can probably get in a second, third, et cetera attempt.

But if he's aware that we're doing it, and doesn't want us to do it, he can stop us.

And if he's just generically opposed to listening to us broadcast telepathy at him, he can stop us doing that too by blocking us on general principles.

Which makes it likely that if we keep trying to stun-lock him with the memories over and over, sooner or later on one iteration of the cycle he'll resist and counterattack, at which point we've basically been wasting our time.
 
Figured.

So, practical upshot: we may be able to slip a packet of memories to Yammar once since he seems inclined to talk and probably doesn't expect us to be able to throw some kind of mind-bomb at him using ki telepathy. If he forgets entirely about the first attempt AND reverts to the state he was in before we made it, we can probably get in a second, third, et cetera attempt.

But if he's aware that we're doing it, and doesn't want us to do it, he can stop us.

And if he's just generically opposed to listening to us broadcast telepathy at him, he can stop us doing that too by blocking us on general principles.

Which makes it likely that if we keep trying to stun-lock him with the memories over and over, sooner or later on one iteration of the cycle he'll resist and counterattack, at which point we've basically been wasting our time.
Nope, if we succeed a singular time then we've disoriented him in a fight involving high speed combat, if it doesn't work literally all we lost is a single thought.

and Yammar is also aware that kakara is not as skilled as him in telepathy (In fact she's likely still the worst out of all the royals) so he is unlikely to think she can actually harm him with simple telepathy.
 
Nope, if we succeed a singular time then we've disoriented him in a fight involving high speed combat, if it doesn't work literally all we lost is a single thought.
He's the Butcher.

We may have disoriented him long enough to, say, land a punch or IT to Dandeer, but I really doubt he's going to be reeling and lurching around in a dazed state or anything. Not unless we follow up hard with Communications checks trying to break his mind control, and if we roll very well, and/or he rolls very well on a Willpower check to even remember what we're telling him.

There is absolutely no guarantee that we can use this method to 'lock him down' for an extended period of time, as opposed to buying a fleeting tactical advantage.
 
He's the Butcher.

We may have disoriented him long enough to, say, land a punch or IT to Dandeer, but I really doubt he's going to be reeling and lurching around in a dazed state or anything. Not unless we follow up hard with Communications checks trying to break his mind control, and if we roll very well, and/or he rolls very well on a Willpower check to even remember what we're telling him.

There is absolutely no guarantee that we can use this method to 'lock him down' for an extended period of time, as opposed to buying a fleeting tactical advantage.
Exactly! he is a massive threat that absolutely outclasses us, how is this an argument against pursuing an advantage?
 
[X] At this point you need something exceptional. Visions show you things you'd think were relevant, right? Let it in and see what it has to say, as long as you're already out for the moment and nobody is defending themselves.
 
I haven't paying that much attention to the vote I admit but looking at the tally... why are we sending the memory before IT? We are buried and he can't see us prepare for it. That seems like an unnecesary warning? I mean, I get if you are trying to disorient him so that we can get our bearings after the jump so we can grab Dandeer before he interrupts but that assumes that as a super saiyan who would think really fast thanks to his PL he wont recover in the extra time it takes us to calculate the jump and reorient ourselves after it after we send the memory. It could go either way with or without it thanks to the rolls I guess but it is kind of weird not to see a variation without it.
 
I haven't paying that much attention to the vote I admit but looking at the tally... why are we sending the memory before IT? We are buried and he can't see us prepare for it. That seems like an unnecesary warning? I mean, I get if you are trying to disorient him so that we can get our bearings after the jump so we can grab Dandeer before he interrupts but that assumes that as a super saiyan who would think really fast thanks to his PL he wont recover in the extra time it takes us to calculate the jump and reorient ourselves after it after we send the memory. It could go either way with or without it thanks to the rolls I guess but it is kind of weird not to see a variation without it.
I'd say this counts as a variation without the memory?

[]Eat a senzu bean, then IT to Dandeer and grab her as a saiyan shield again.

I agree that sending the memory is unnecessary, though.
 
I haven't paying that much attention to the vote I admit but looking at the tally... why are we sending the memory before IT? We are buried and he can't see us prepare for it. That seems like an unnecesary warning? I mean, I get if you are trying to disorient him so that we can get our bearings after the jump so we can grab Dandeer before he interrupts but that assumes that as a super saiyan who would think really fast thanks to his PL he wont recover in the extra time it takes us to calculate the jump and reorient ourselves after it after we send the memory. It could go either way with or without it thanks to the rolls I guess but it is kind of weird not to see a variation without it.
I agree, and said as much, but at this point either we waste the memory or we get trapped by Carrick in a Seer trap.
 
I haven't paying that much attention to the vote I admit but looking at the tally... why are we sending the memory before IT? We are buried and he can't see us prepare for it. That seems like an unnecesary warning? I mean, I get if you are trying to disorient him so that we can get our bearings after the jump so we can grab Dandeer before he interrupts but that assumes that as a super saiyan who would think really fast thanks to his PL he wont recover in the extra time it takes us to calculate the jump and reorient ourselves after it after we send the memory. It could go either way with or without it thanks to the rolls I guess but it is kind of weird not to see a variation without it.
The point of sending the memory is to prevent Yammar from benefiting from any possible seer support he could have since this gambit is the only time it can actually be used during this fight due to the speeds involved.
Adhoc vote count started by Sir LagsAlot on Sep 1, 2018 at 3:03 PM, finished with 30767 posts and 22 votes.

  • [X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
    - [X] Telepathicly transmit the memories of Dandeer's slaughter of the Vegetan sorceres to Yammar.
    - [X] IT over to Dandeer and use her as a shield/flail.
    [X] At this point you need something exceptional. Visions show you things you'd think were relevant, right? Let it in and see what it has to say, as long as you're already out for the moment and nobody is defending themselves.
    [X]Eat a senzu bean, then IT to Dandeer and grab her as a saiyan shield again.
    [X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
    -[X] IT over to Dandeer, and use her as a shield.
    -[X] Ask Yammar why there are Over Nine Thousand fewer Vegetan Sorcerors than there were twelve years ago.
    [X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
    -[X] Telepathicly transmit the memories of Dandeer's slaughter of the Vegetan sorceres to Yammar.
    -[X] Fire a healing beam of ki at Jaffur.
    [x] IT to the other side of the planet
    -[x] Go spirit saiyan
    [X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
    -[X] IT over to Dandeer, and use her as a shield.
    -[X] Then IT to the other side of the Sun, and begin charging a Spirit Bomb. Use a multiform if necessary to request the energy.
    1. [X] Telepathically transmit the memories of Dandeer's slaughter of the Vegetan sorceres to Yammar.
    -[X] Possible line of argument, to be used at Kakara's discretion: Dandeer has done terrible harm to House Vegeta and Clan Vegeta, and if she succeeds, she won't need a clan of super-saiyan royals anymore; she can control as many super-saiyans as she likes if she isn't stopped.
    -[X] Possible line of argument, to be used at Kakara's discretion: Dandeer did a MUCH worse thing than Yammar has ever done, but Yammar has a horrible reputation for his actions, while Dandeer's crimes aren't even remembered. Yammar should not be protecting Dandeer,in light of this.
    [X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
    -[X] Try to persuade Yammar to stop fighting via Communications.
    [X] Plan Screaming Saiyans
    -[X] Take another bean, get back up, and fight.
    --[X] Keep your distance and fight defensively. Your goal isn't to knock out Yammar, but to prevent him from doing the same to you as well as healing his allies.
    -[X] Broadcast to every single Saiyan on Garenhuld that you're trying to break the Sealing, Dandeer is mind-controlling Yammar and Berra and that they need to scream at Yammar right now.
    [X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
    -[X] IT over to Dandeer, and use her as a shield.
    -[X] Then IT to the other side of the Sun, and begin charging a Spirit Bomb. Use a multiform if necessary to request the energy.
    -[X] And send a Multiform back to wake up Jaffur.
    [X] Try to persuade Yammar to stop fighting via Communications.
    -[X] Telepathically transmit the memories of Dandeer's slaughter of the Vegetan sorceres to Yammar.
    -[X] Possible line of argument, to be used at Kakara's discretion: Dandeer has done terrible harm to House Vegeta and Clan Vegeta, and if she succeeds, she won't need a clan of super-saiyan royals anymore; she can control as many super-saiyans as she likes if she isn't stopped.
    -[X] Possible line of argument, to be used at Kakara's discretion: Dandeer did a MUCH worse thing than Yammar has ever done, but Yammar has a horrible reputation for his actions, while Dandeer's crimes aren't even remembered. Yammar should not be protecting Dandeer,in light of this.
    [X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
    -[X] IT over to Dandeer, and use her as a shield.
    -[X] Ask Yammar why there are Over Nine Thousand fewer Vegetan Sorcerors than there were twelve years ago. Show him the answer.
    -[X] And heal Jaffur/anyone else convenient while he's distracted.
    [X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
    - [X] Telepathicly transmit the memories of Dandeer's slaughter of the Vegetan sorceres to Yammar.
    [X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
    -[X] Telepathicly transmit the memories of Dandeer's slaughter of the Vegetan sorceres to Yammar.
    -[X] IT over to Dandeer and use her as a shield/flail.
    [X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
    -[X] Try to persuade Yammar to stop fighting via Communications.
    -[X] Telepathically transmit the memories of Dandeer's slaughter of the Vegetan sorceres to Yammar.
    -[X] Possible line of argument, to be used at Kakara's discretion: Dandeer has done terrible harm to House Vegeta and Clan Vegeta, and if she succeeds, she won't need a clan of super-saiyan royals anymore; she can control as many super-saiyans as she likes if she isn't stopped.
    -[X] Possible line of argument, to be used at Kakara's discretion: Dandeer did a MUCH worse thing than Yammar has ever done, but Yammar has a horrible reputation for his actions, while Dandeer's crimes aren't even remembered. Yammar should not be protecting Dandeer,in light of this.
    [X] Eat a Senzu Bean
    - [X] IT to the other side of the planet
    - [X] Go Spirit Saiyan
    [X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
    - [X] IT over to Dandeer and use her as a shield/flail.
 
I fear I will have to be the one to ask @PoptartProdigy how on earth the mechanics actually work.
"Will you walk into my parlour?" said the Spider to the Fly...

:evil:
Well, it's the sort of joke I'd like to find in the Apocrypha. Could you mark it anyway?

I've seen the original, though. You edited that section.

By the way, if I edited Saiyan First Aid with your feedback, would it be canonized?
I understand, but the omake indexes are for omakes.

Ah, so I did. Honestly, I don't recall.

Feel free, for now.
 
[X] Take a Senzu bean and hold another Senzu bean in our mouth or cheek.
- [X] Telepathicly transmit the memories of Dandeer's slaughter of the Vegetan sorceres to Yammar.
- [X] IT over to Dandeer and use her as a shield/flail.
 
I think it would work pretty well as an Omake. @Simon_Jester?

Done.
Horatio, if you want to remember the post so badly, just bookmark it.

Now, the medicine omake. I think if it's going down this interpretation of saiyan biology in general, it's just not going to fit with how I have this universe set up. It's a fine headcanon-- but it's not my headcanon. The changes you've made don't really help with that.
 
Okay then. I thought you said you would explain if asked, it says it right there on the first page, but I guess my eyes must be worse than I thought.
 
Gamer, there's no need to get passive-aggressive with the QM about this. The basics are pretty clear:

Actions are resolved by rolling d100 plus bonuses (plus maluses, usually situational ones). Sometimes we're rolling against a flat DC because there's no directly opposed action. Such as a DC 140 Willpower check to retain control of oneself during the Spirit Saiyan transformation, which in its one (two?) appearance(s) in canon caused the user to go berserk.

Sometimes, we're rolling opposed rolls against opponents. Higher levels of skill on either side provide bonuses to the opposed roll. Traits also provide bonuses.

The big X-factors in the system are:

1) We can't read NPCs' character sheets, and thus have no guidelines as to their abilities beyond what we see in canon and what Poptart chooses to publicize. This is in all probability "as intended." There is, for example, no reason for Kakara to have accurate, detailed knowledge of who is the more skillful fighter between Apra and Yammar. Furthermore, in many cases information about a character's traits and bonuses acts as spoilers for purposes of knowing about their personality and background.

2) We don't know how, mechanically, opposed skill checks in combat translate into inflicting damage or weakening upon characters. This is ultimately not very important. Although I do suspect that Style bonuses are far, far greater than we'd originally realized back in the first years of the quest, which helps to explain why we took so long to start training a style and why we keep getting our asses kicked for not having learned one.
 
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