- Location
- The Temple of the Winds
This
The next few updates better be pretty damn amazing to keep my withering interest from dropping the quest...
Dragon Ball: After the End
The next few updates better be pretty damn amazing to keep my withering interest from dropping the quest...
If I may ask, what made this update so egregious? It's pretty in line with the sheer power most DB villains disaply before the hero pulls through.
Also, could u at least try to be a bit less abrasive?
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
The problem is that for DB villains, it eventually dissolves to punch good.
The issue is that Dandeer is basically a JoJo Villain in terms of bullcrap she can whip out, which is a bad matchup to the typically-bad-at-shenanigans Dragon Ball powerset. Especially since characterization means we can't just introduce ourselves to the situation with a multi-million power level suborbital drop kick.
That can't really be easily beaten without an extremely high level of play, or the GM handing you a macguffin. And the problem is that the player base here hasn't been trained in how to dissect events and put together straightforward plans that solve their problems.
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I mean, not to denigrate Jojo, but it ultimately dissolves to that as well. The problem is lining up your ability to punch good with the varying circumstances of your enemies' power and surprising them from an angle they don't expect. The same applies here. Dandeer ultimately excpectef angry Super Saiyans to barge in and try and beat her to a pulp. She was quick enough on her feet and had prepared the proverbial ground enough before hand that she had an ace in the hole when things went south. We just have to find a way to exploit this to our advantage.
Of course, it isn't that simple overall, but there are certainly ways to get out of this.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I dunno, we came up with like five layers of shenanigans that had realistic chances of working.
Dragonball has a LOT of shenanigans potential, it's just that nobody uses it.
Although now I wish Super Saiyan Joseph Joestar were here. He'd find a way to get us out of this.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Some of my frustration comes from the fact that we predicted a lot of this but due to some combination forgetfullness complacency and assumptions we didnt actually do even basic things like bring up dandeer having anti seer measures, and the possibility of her ensorcelling berra.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
...When, exactly, should we have done that? During which vote?
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Dunno.
Personally I find it weird that we were the ones that had to do that.
If its the kind of logical paths that we come up with, I find it odd that Yammar and Appra didn't think of it too.
As for the seals on Seeing...well IIRC we did ask about that when we saw that thing with the Vegetan bloodline seal, but our master seemed to not think it was a big deal IIRC.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
That's falls under complacency to expect an opportunity rather than making one.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Okay, but what, specifically, should we have done? Which vote should we have hijacked with a write-in about an unrelated precaution we wanted to take for the Sealing plan?
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
At the latest before confronting berra. At the earliest any of the turn plans, or votes involving being at the senzus.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Out if the top of my head:
Whem we moved the time table of the unsealing and were asked if there were any objections to the plan. When we had that saving kick premonition. When we were doing the final preparations before leaving Senzu hall. During the week before the unsealing or any week we didn't use multiform.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
[I could raise similar points about any of the other times you suggest, but I'm going to focus on this one as a representative sample of the problem]
I have to wonder how well that would have gone over. The vote in question was:
So basically, the "plan" was a specific sequence of events, which all went off without a hitch and was a good sequence of events. The problem wasn't that the plan as such was bad, it was that there were no detailsabout how we'd confront Dandeer after wedistracted Dandeer, whisked away Jaron, took down the Seal, and confronted Berra.
Given that left to their own devices the NPCs took effectively no precautions, not even the most basic one of "speedblitz Dandeer and knock her out before she has time to trigger any spells..."
We would have needed, at that time, to in detail specify exactly what precautions we intended the royals to take in order to be confident those precautions would be carried out. We would have needed a detailed plan of action.
And we would have needed to suggest this plan, not in answer to a vote along the lines of "what precautions do you take" but "Yes, we object to the (actually good) planned sequence of events and suggest the SAME sequence of events, just with more detail of how we confront Dandeer." It was not, to put it mildly, generally understood among the players that this was a realistic or appropriate way to react to this vote choice.
...
If we'd tried to do this then, I suspect we'd have seen exactly the same situation as now- a complicated write-in plan vote that tried to cover all the possibilities, and succeeded mainly in irritating Poptart. Because there would be no easy way for us to even describe the precautions we wanted to take, without breaking the stated goal of keeping us restricted to simple vote choices and "no complicated plans." Dandeer's a smart and competent enemy, who has powers that cannot be countered directly just by "punch real good." Given that the NPCs weren't going to take on the burden of planning a suitably intelligent and resourceful counter-strategy themselves... We were always going to need a complicated plan to fight her at some point, and that plan was always going to be long enough to cause people's eyes to glaze over.
...
It's not that any of us oppose, or opposed, taking basic precautions against the mind control. It's just that if the idea behind vote choices is above all to keep them simple, then the kind of "to heck with simplicity, here is a laundry list of precautions to take, take them" thinking just doesn't fit very well at all.
If we as players, are going to be constantly vigilant ad forethoughtful, taking advantage of our creativity to come up with the things our enemies might do and being ready for them, then we need numerous opportunities to do so, not just occasional "speak now or forever hold your peace" votes that are semi-related to the actual task of fighting the boss.
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Kakara is a twelve year old anyway, she shouldn't be the Conspiracy's master strategist, or for that matter the one to bring up that Dandeer can clearly mess with people's heads and has been preparing for a long time so we should take precautions. That's Dandelor's job, since he's the one who knows Dandeer has been crazy since forever and has already brainwashed literally everyone at least once.
Which is often a problem in quests with child characters, adults who're supposed to be competent end up making egregious errors the second the PC stops babysitting them.
Which is often a problem in quests with child characters, adults who're supposed to be competent end up making egregious errors the second the PC stops babysitting them.
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Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Dandelor could also be compromised.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Lesson learned. In the future we can't count on grown ups for anything. We need to do everything ourself.
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Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
I thought this was already established when we proposed using Seers to find the Scouts way back when. It's not a secret that the Exiles are warriors, not tacticians and do generally think in terms of punch good. For god sakes, their go-to hang out strategy is a spar.
The Exiles are amazing at their specialities, they're good fighters, politicians and a lot of other things. At the same time they are a sheltered society in hiding, slightly affected by whatever affects the Garenhulders and literally worshipping the past over the future. They aren't the smartest of people when it comes to the whole making plans thing. Weren't we literally restricted to Talented command training until we got real world experience?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The problem is, I'm not sure we even have the voting infrastructure in the quest to do everything ourselves, in terms of crafting acceptable votes and establishing that Kakara's medium and long-term priorities include all the commonsense preparations and actions she should be taking to ensure that her own plans succeed.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Not that I can really recommend this as a method (like, at all), but you can vote in a plan name, and then have the original voter elaborate on the contents of the plan below (not as part of the vote); QM can just click on the first voter's name to read the elaboration.
- Location
- [REDACTED]
As someone completely new to this quest. In that, I just got caught up 15 minutes ago, just in time for this auspicious moment. I do not feel either justified or qualified to take any sort of position whatsoever regarding what should be done next in the actual quest.
That said, I do want to say that the word limit incentives recently implemented in MFD helped me feel comfortable enough to actually start contributing and get invested after than more than a month of lurking. My experience here is purely anecdotal, but it might still be a relevant data point. Take of it what you will.
That said, I do want to say that the word limit incentives recently implemented in MFD helped me feel comfortable enough to actually start contributing and get invested after than more than a month of lurking. My experience here is purely anecdotal, but it might still be a relevant data point. Take of it what you will.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
We did that.
"Plan Grasp Every Straw, With More Monkeys," for example.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Nope.
That included plan details in the plan's vote itself instead of in the plan maker's post, if I am not mistaken.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Anyhow! I've been live-trialing some ideas elsewhere (no, not Terminus Quest). Think I'm about ready to get going. It's a little odd how many people leapt to the conclusion that I was eliminating write-ins from this quest altogether, though. I never said I was doing that. I mean, hey, free data on how people react to changes to comfortable paradigms, so that's always useful. But no. Write-ins shall remain a thing here.
Anyway, y'all can expect an update in the next couple of days. See you all soon!
Anyway, y'all can expect an update in the next couple of days. See you all soon!
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Glad you're back, I've missed this!Anyhow! I've been live-trialing some ideas elsewhere (no, not Terminus Quest). Think I'm about ready to get going. It's a little odd how many people leapt to the conclusion that I was eliminating write-ins from this quest altogether, though. I never said I was doing that. I mean, hey, free data on how people react to changes to comfortable paradigms, so that's always useful. But no. Write-ins shall remain a thing here.
Anyway, y'all can expect an update in the next couple of days. See you all soon!
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
You may have missed it but Poptart has asked us to drop the subject:
Let's not get back into it just as they're returning to the thread, yeah?