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[X] Plan Grasp Every Straw, With More Monkeys

Also, what does this even mean: ". You'll shout (at FPSSJ speeds) " Does sound suddenly travel faster because a super saiyan is saying it?

No, just the words take up less time, as though they're on fast forward x 12,000 or so.

To elaborate, having a high power level grants super speed and reflexes and the like, which can be imagined as slowed time.

Two super saiyans talking at full speed would be like having a conversion in-between the buzz of a bee's wings. Normal humans wouldn't even register that anything has been said.

Dandeer isn't exactly a normal human, but the PL difference is wide enough that she shouldn't be able to hear or understand us. This means she can't dispute our claims. If we spoke them normally, she'd just scoff and tell her mind-controlled guardians that it's bull.

The hope is that by saying it so quickly, Dandeer will be unable to deny our claim and so the body guard might be dumb enough to believe it, if they're blindly following orders and not operating at peak mental capacity.

I don't give the ploy very good chances, but if it only costs us a millionth of a second then it might as well be included.

We should also ask them to divide by zero. Just in case. :V
 
The given default votes all assume that we fight the puppet protectors. When we really don't have much reason to. Dandeer is who we want to get at.
 
Hm. Yeah, the more I think, the more I conclude that I really want to bring in a larger slice of the voter base on a vote this critical. Restricting the number of voices in the discussion at arc climaxes, for any reason, tends to be horrible for quest health. At this point, it's getting very tempting to try this again with a new format.

People may start attempting to encourage this line of thought or argue against it now, because I am seriously considering wiping this vote and posting an, "other perspectives," update along with a reformatted vote.
The problem is complexity is only one reason for people to abstain. The uncertainty and stakes are also a deterrent but are also a neccesaary part of the plot.
 
To elaborate, having a high power level grants super speed and reflexes and the like, which can be imagined as slowed time.

Two super saiyans talking at full speed would be like having a conversion in-between the buzz of a bee's wings. Normal humans wouldn't even register that anything has been said.

Dandeer isn't exactly a normal human, but the PL difference is wide enough that she shouldn't be able to hear or understand us. This means she can't dispute our claims. If we spoke them normally, she'd just scoff and tell her mind-controlled guardians that it's bull.

The hope is that by saying it so quickly, Dandeer will be unable to deny our claim and so the body guard might be dumb enough to believe it, if they're blindly following orders and not operating at peak mental capacity.

I don't give the ploy very good chances, but if it only costs us a millionth of a second then it might as well be included.

We should also ask them to divide by zero. Just in case. :V
My point is that sound only travels at a certain speed through air. After a certain point, increasing the rate at which you say something doesn't meaningfully change how fast it takes for the other person to hear it (if it takes a millisecond to propagate), it doesn't really matter if it took you a nanosecond or half a nanosecond to say it). Also if the medium's consistency is changing (and thus minor variations in the propagation rate at any one time), if you say things too close together, you risk distortion or even incoherence if you get sound waves overlapping each other (if you say one word and the speed is 762 MPH and you say a second word a nano-second later and the speed is 762.001 mph, then you could have those waves overlap).
 
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My point is that sound only travels at a certain speed through air. After a certain point, increasing the rate at which you say something doesn't meaningfully change how fast it takes for the other person to hear it (if it takes a millisecond to propagate), it doesn't really matter if it took you a nanosecond or half a nanosecond to say it). Also if the medium's consistency is changing (and thus minor variations in the propagation rate at any one time), if you say things too close together, you risk distortion or even incoherence if you get sound waves overlapping each other (if you say one word and the speed is 762 MPH and you say a second word a nano-second later and the speed is 762.001 mph, then you could have those waves overlap).
You're really overthinking this. No matter how powerful people get in Dragonball, they maintain about the same pace of speech to punching. But more powerful people are definitely faster.

Therefore, we must conclude that more powerful people speak faster. Somehow. Ki in the air or something, I don't care. It must be true, though, or you throw out pretty much all of canon.
 
The whole 'endless monologues and glowering in the time it takes for rocks to fall to the ground' thing. Is that being treated as literal or was it just a stylistic choice?
Well, the point is that the characters do in fact have the kind of superhuman speed it would take to have such conversations... if only their voices could carry that fast.

Since the characters can breathe while moving at supersonic speeds, even though air does not naturally move that fast and a super-saiyan's lungs shouldn't logically be able to pull air into their chest cavity fast enough to fill the lungs while moving that fast...

It's just assumed that somehow, some way, the protagonists have a way around the normal limitations of how fast air and sound waves move.

I've answered this already. One more time, though: the given phrasing would use Deceit, as Dandeer is very much not attempting to kill herself.
Sorry.

How about the phrasing "The best way to protect Dandeer is to stop her! She's in more danger from all this fighting than she would be from a trial!" Would that be a Communications check?

Hm. Yeah, the more I think, the more I conclude that I really want to bring in a larger slice of the voter base on a vote this critical. Restricting the number of voices in the discussion at arc climaxes, for any reason, tends to be horrible for quest health. At this point, it's getting very tempting to try this again with a new format.

People may start attempting to encourage this line of thought or argue against it now, because I am seriously considering wiping this vote and posting an, "other perspectives," update along with a reformatted vote.
Okay. Well, reformatting the vote CAN work. That might actually be a good idea, even.

Now, let me point out that the current complicated plans were crafted so that Kakara can (in-character) try a reasonable selection of gambits, along with having a plan for the fight. This was seen as desirable because the default options all reduce to "fight a super-powered boxing match and hope our side wins before Dandeer can cast a spell that wipes everyone's brains." Kakara is not, and has never been since character generation, the kind of character for whom this is the ideal default strategy, so everyone is trying guile.

Do you have any notions for how to set up the vote so that many people can participate, and the vote is not pathologically complicated, BUT Kakara gets a reasonable number of opportunities to try persuasion and 'guile' tactics like Solar Flare or the 'throw a power ball at Dandeer and see if it turns her into an uncontrolled oozaru incapable of casting spells' gambit?

Because it would be badly nerfing Kakara if we can't vote on gambits for her to try, given that her entire character is built around being oddball, unconventional, a communicator and organizer instead of just being a warrior. But at the same time, we might need to come up with a different vote structure in that case- say, have a [GAMBIT] vote where every gambit that wins 50% or greater approval is tried. Or something.

If this turns into a case of "okay, I'm rewriting the vote to allow ONLY a handful of curated choices, and then we go into the fight scene and I'll tell you when it's all over whether you win or Dandeer mind-controls you all," then I'm against that.

If this turns into restructuring the vote so that Kakara can have a proper moment of glorious Oddball Communicative Princess glory at long last, while still giving everyone a chance to vote on it... I'm very heartily or it.
 
You're really overthinking this. No matter how powerful people get in Dragonball, they maintain about the same pace of speech to punching. But more powerful people are definitely faster.

Therefore, we must conclude that more powerful people speak faster. Somehow. Ki in the air or something, I don't care. It must be true, though, or you throw out pretty much all of canon.
My head cannon is telepathy honestly and the speaking is just an anime/manga thing because you can't show telepathy.
 
My head cannon is telepathy honestly and the speaking is just an anime/manga thing because you can't show telepathy.
At least in the context of this quest telepathy is an unconnected skill, and it is trivially easy to show telepathy. Especially in an anime. You just put a reverb or funny speech bubble or color or something, and show people not opening their mouths.

It's really simple. I see a lot of series do it, in fact. Both animated and comics, Japanese and otherwise.
 
Has anyone brought up the concern that Jaffur might not be able to control his oozaru form? Or am I just forgetting that at some point he learned to control it?
 
I don't know if we have firm confirmation but he did seem intent on learning Oozaru once we showed him Golden Oozaru.
Hm, so were chancing it then meh it shouldn't matter anyways since his Oozaru form wouldn't be controlled meaning he can't go SSJ meaning he's easy to control and take out. But what about the people still running away though are we gonna trigger mass Oozaru transformations?
 
I've been lurking for a while now, used to participate, and the reason I'm not trying to help or voting is primarily because Dandeer just is not a compelling villain.

She feels more like that guy at the table who always has an instant or trap card to play and just makes everyone else at the table groan in exasperation/annoyance/tiredness.

And everyone else is just running a deck that's super vulnerable to it. Almost literally everyone at that. Almost.

As for this vote... actually people before this now have explained it better than I could. It's a high-tension vote where if we fuck up, we're fucked (see: everyone running a deck super vulnerable to her), so that's inherently going to drive off more than a few voters. It just happens. *Shrug*

Write-ins also kind of send more people away because that means they need to follow the discussion.

Then the high-tension part comes back and the write-in bloats trying to accommodate for everything that might happen, especially on character's who are flexible, which drives off more people who kind of shrug and leave it to the people who seem to know what they're doing and that they (at the least) don't mind the direction of the discussion/vote.

I know I'm forgetting stuff, but I'm actually tired enough that I'm having a little trouble thinking properly, so I'll have to leave it at that.
 
I'm not sure how to feel about the fact that the only one of my suggestions to gain traction was, "Hey, y'know what this apocalyptic showdown needs? Dozens of berserk kaiju!"
Yes. Yes, it will. Because that as an attack is so insane, so unprecedented, that literally no one but a crazy person would try it.

Let's get some monkeys up in this bitch.

...thank you?



[Y] Moderate Goal: Petition for the Power Ball to be formally renamed the Monkey Ball.

"Organ Grinder".
 
Hm, so were chancing it then meh it shouldn't matter anyways since his Oozaru form wouldn't be controlled meaning he can't go SSJ meaning he's easy to control and take out. But what about the people still running away though are we gonna trigger mass Oozaru transformations?
Oozaru rage tends to focus on people that the saiyan hates first. Who is the most hated saiyan?
 
"And that was the story of how Kakara created an inland sea with the power of pacifism. They say it didn't stop boiling for seventeen days..."

We have made a terrible mistake.
 
...Jesus Christ this is going to be a slaughter of unprecedented scale although it'll probably leave Dandeer vulnerable to attack which is a plus.
House Talt Massacre. Dandeer killing all the other Vegetan Sorcerers. Way back when Planet Vegeta got blown up. Death of earth.

Not unprecedented, unless you believe we will massacre a good chunk of the galaxy. Somehow.
 
House Talt Massacre. Dandeer killing all the other Vegetan Sorcerers. Way back when Planet Vegeta got blown up. Death of earth.

Not unprecedented, unless you believe we will massacre a good chunk of the galaxy. Somehow.
I was just looking for a word to describe the amount of death this might cause and unprecedented sprung to mind there's no reason to really take that specific word choice all to seriously.
 
The Oozaru idea is more than a little self-destructive obviously, but we are the only one who knows how to use the Golden Oozaru (off the bat at least), so it's viable in that way.

This is going to go so hilariously badly, but it'll be worse for Dandeer since it's essentially flipping the board at this point and just giving her the middle finger.

Edit: Oh. We're not looking at it. *Shrug* Still stands that we're the only one who can currently use SSJ in Oozaru form. Unless dad's been training.
 
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I was just looking for a word to describe the amount of death this might cause and unprecedented sprung to mind there's no reason to really take that specific word choice all to seriously.
It is a word with very specific meaning. That does not apply here. Horrific, immense, jawdropping, appalling... There's a lot of terms that would apply just fine. Unprecedented does not. Perspective and meaning matter.
 
It is a word with very specific meaning. That does not apply here. Horrific, immense, jawdropping, appalling... There's a lot of terms that would apply just fine. Unprecedented does not. Perspective and meaning matter.
That one specific word would not have had any impact on the events of the quest or the author in any way shape or form so I struggle to see how my use of a descriptive word describing the quantity of death in a given situation matters in this situation besides such things as exaggeration exist and are used quite commonly in human speech.
 
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