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Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

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I can't recall without going back and checking, but was the Heretical Adaptation option used on Joe's heart?

Edit: A quick search doesn't reveal definitively one way or another, but I expect so. It's a default addition to everything that he makes, and they were throwing everything at the heart when it was worked on. Unless it needs to be a new creation rather than rebuilding something, but I don't recall that being the case.
 
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Anaja said:
I can't recall without going back and checking, but was the Heretical Adaptation option used on Joe's heart?

Edit: A quick search doesn't reveal definitively one way or another, but I expect so. It's a default addition to everything that he makes, and they were throwing everything at the heart when it was worked on. Unless it needs to be a new creation rather than rebuilding something, but I don't recall that being the case.
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Heretical Adaptation was gotten way back in Chapter 38 - Build Up, so I'm fairly certain Joe's entire body has Heretical Adaptation applied to it or at least the parts that were put in. That includes his heart, and quite possibly whatever was done to turn his body into mini-Godzilla. Fun fact, that also means that all three bodies for the AI have Heretical Adaptation due to being built from the ground up. On top of all the other shenaniganery built into them too, so they'll just keep getting better and better.
 
Spidey_phd said:
Of course, Piggot would be freaking out that Apeiron had just provided all of the villainous capes of BB with free access to Protectorate ENE Headquarters
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What? Why? I don't understand where this comes from.

AmberSlime said:
Heretical Adaptation was gotten way back in Chapter 38 - Build Up, so I'm fairly certain Joe's entire body has Heretical Adaptation applied to it or at least the parts that were put in. That includes his heart, and quite possibly whatever was done to turn his body into mini-Godzilla. Fun fact, that also means that all three bodies for the AI have Heretical Adaptation due to being built from the ground up. On top of all the other shenaniganery built into them too, so they'll just keep getting better and better.
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It was explicitly stated in Survey's POV that her body has HA
 
Ziggrrauglurr said:
What? Why? I don't understand where this comes from.
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I believe the thing Spidey_phd was referring to was a hypothetical anti-Leviathan item, some sort of thing that was either a rebreather or allowed breathing underwater. Thing is, the Protectorate/PRT HQ is an oil rig off the coast, so if the villains can breathe underwater due to Apeiron's anti-leviathan trinket, then they can sneak across the ocean floor to the Protectorate/PRT HQ.
 
RegiDelta said:
tybalt in disguise you don't even realise that he's a cat
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Oh no he is totally a cat. I don't understand why anyone has a problem with that though. Him being a cat does not diminish any of his capabilities and the very notion that it may is just rude. He is the lone bastion of normality amongst the Workshop crew, and this continued assault on his credibility is downright offensive. Really now, we should be better than this.
 
Hunter128 said:
There's no way that Joe is getting through this meeting without at least one major Perk coming up, the only question is which one.

It would be kind of funny if he gets Miniturization/Effeciency and it's additional Perk Blank as soon as he calls out some Thinker trying to read him.

Suddenly nobody seems to be able to get any information via Thinker power the moment he noticed someone trying and went into one of his trances.
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Blank isn't something Joe can get. OCP is but it's redundant and won't cause issues because it complements rather than sabotages Joe's existing protections.

Carrnage said:
the one that gives him a cybertronian form, Suddenly the Diner is filled with a semi truck.
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The Cybertronian form will appear back at the workshop. He can combine into it
 
gthesob said:
Doesn't Joe have something for his voice or am I thinking of another fic? If it carries over to Tybalt that purr would be a counter to the conflict drive.
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He got a sweet singing voice from a free Macross perk. Not a good singer, just a good singing voice.
Serene Sinatra (Macross) Free:
You're no slouch in the singing department, that's for sure. You may not be popular idol material, but no one's going to complain if you decide to sing along to a song or randomly bust out a tune with a voice like this. Who knows, maybe you could practice and get a little better?
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Tybalt did not get it.
 
Can someone think of any way Coil could win now? We know he won't, b/c story, but is there even a path forward for him?

He must have tried ambushing Joe in some timelines, but I can't see any way he could pierce Joe's overpowered apparatus now. Even Dinah must be useless when it comes to Joe, with the anti-thinker protections.

The only possible thing I can think of is if Coil gets ahold of his family. His identity is probably his greatest weakness, with enough breadcrumbs out there for either Dragon/Armsmaster/Coil to follow.
 
Leafy503 said:
I like how the perspective of the situation differs from each other.
Undersiders = "verge of nervous breakdown"
Everyone else = I envy the position of the Undersiders right now.
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To be fair, the reason of their nervous breakdown isn't Joe as much as they're all still not at their 100% after the whole Bakuda fiasco. That and Lisa is still trying to maintain some sense of control and everyone else in the Undersiders is getting dragged into her pace, which in turn is failing to catch up with Apeiron's pace.
 
Domq said:
Can someone think of any way Coil could win now? We know he won't, b/c story, but is there even a path forward for him?

He must have tried ambushing Joe in some timelines, but I can't see any way he could pierce Joe's overpowered apparatus now. Even Dinah must be useless when it comes to Joe, with the anti-thinker protections.

The only possible thing I can think of is if Coil gets ahold of his family. His identity is probably his greatest weakness, with enough breadcrumbs out there for either Dragon/Armsmaster/Coil to follow.
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I think his best shot would be finding a way to fuck up Joe's life enough that he'll be too busy dealing with it to be going after Coil. That probably involves posting his identity online, going after his family, pushing for a kill-order, the use of annihilator capes, drumming up negative media coverage, etc. etc. etc.
 
MagicalAmbitions said:
I think his best shot would be finding a way to fuck up Joe's life enough that he'll be too busy dealing with it to be going after Coil. That probably involves posting his identity online, going after his family, pushing for a kill-order, the use of annihilator capes, drumming up negative media coverage, etc. etc. etc.
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That kind of scorched earth tactic will not work out well for Coil and he knows it. The moment he does that, he also burns bridges with pretty much everyone interested in Apeiron, and that's literally everyone. Even those that wish to take down Apeiron wouldn't appreciate such a flagrant breach of the Unwritten Rules, and that is assuming all of that can take down Apeiron permanently. Because if it doesn't, well nothing will protect Coil from Apeiron unless he's gutsy enough to think that Cauldron would see him as an asset worth protecting despite all that.

No, Coil's Hail-Mary at this point is desperately believing that he can redirect Apeiron into his enemies and not to himself. It's why he's still holding on to the Undersiders despite them being arguably subverted in every way since Joe gave them their watches. It's the only way he can influence Apeiron, after all.
 
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readerdreamer said:
That kind of scorched earth tactic will not work out well for Coil and he knows it. The moment he does that, he also burns bridges with pretty much everyone interested in Apeiron, and that's literally everyone. Even those that wish to take down Apeiron wouldn't appreciate such a flagrant breach of the Unwritten Rules, and that is assuming all of that can take down Apeiron permanently. Because if it doesn't, well nothing will protect Coil from Apeiron unless he's gutsy enough to think that Cauldron would see him as an asset worth protecting despite all that.

No, Coil's Hail-Mary at this point is desperately believing that he can redirect Apeiron into his enemies and not to himself. It's why he's still holding on to the Undersiders despite them being arguably subverted in every way since Joe gave them their watches. It's the only way he can influence Apeiron, after all.
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I could imagine him sending Trainwreck into the Merchants w/ Identity Evidence to convince them to announce/leak it; Make it obvious to know the culprit so Apeiron goes after them, and doesn't dig too deep. Giving the dog a bone to chew on, if you will. Good luck with that though, Survey the Omniscient will figure it out soon enough.
 
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Isn't Coil petty enough that if he thinks he cannot have Brockton Bay he will make sure nobody else gets it too? So if he realizes Apeiron is beyond him in control, influence and power then he might still do scoured earth tactics just because he doesn't want anyone else get 'his' prize?
 
PinkShadowReader said:
Isn't Coil petty enough that if he thinks he cannot have Brockton Bay he will make sure nobody else gets it too? So if he realizes Apeiron is beyond him in control, influence and power then he might still do scoured earth tactics just because he doesn't want anyone else get 'his' prize?
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Not really. Coil is petty, but ultimately he is self-serving. If he believes that he can still get by, or even just move out of the Bay scot-free, then he will do it. Ultimately, after all, Brockton Bay is just a city. There are more out there that he could take over in the future. He will only use scorched earth tactics if he believes that he is doomed without a doubt and all he could do is make things worse for everyone else as he falls.
 
readerdreamer said:
Not really. Coil is petty, but ultimately he is self-serving. If he believes that he can still get by, or even just move out of the Bay scot-free, then he will do it. Ultimately, after all, Brockton Bay is just a city. There are more out there that he could take over in the future. He will only use scorched earth tactics if he believes that he is doomed without a doubt and all he could do is make things worse for everyone else as he falls.
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Yeah. At worst case he'd try to cut "Coil" loose and GTFO of the Bay. Get his duplicate in a position to get killed by some group in revenge while he leaves the city, not to mention leaving Noelle to cause MAYHEM. Maybe come back a while later with a new cape identity if he wants? Just make up a new identity somewhere else, find another place he can take things over?
 
Am I completely fabricating a Coil interlude very early in the story where he captures Joe or kills him or does something to him but then let's him go/let's the story continue? To learn his capabilities or something? Obviously it's gotten past him from that point, but still. 🤷🏼‍♂️
 
savlbaeiwq said:
Am I completely fabricating a Coil interlude very early in the story where he captures Joe or kills him or does something to him but then let's him go/let's the story continue? To learn his capabilities or something? Obviously it's gotten past him from that point, but still. 🤷🏼‍♂️
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12.1 Interlude: Thomas

Where Coil used his power to test Joe, but Joe would run at the first sign of Coil, presumably because Joe's power knew they were in the simulated timeline. It lead to Coil having a skewed perception of Joe.
 
Coil is happy because when he asks Dinah, chances of Apeiron interfering with his operation are low. Plus, with him being a mercenary, he assumes that he can have Joe in his pocket instead.
 
akatoshslayer said:
Oh no he is totally a cat. I don't understand why anyone has a problem with that though. Him being a cat does not diminish any of his capabilities and the very notion that it may is just rude. He is the lone bastion of normality amongst the Workshop crew, and this continued assault on his credibility is downright offensive. Really now, we should be better than this.
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The hilarious thing is that Tybalt really is the most normal member of the Workshop from a Bet perspective.

  • Fleet and Survey are AIs.
    • Even to those who are unaware they're AIs, Survey appears nigh-perfect, and really, just looking like a Tinker on the same team as Apeiron has to add to the "Oh shit are they just as nutty as he is" factor.
  • Matrix is a perfectionist hive mind of nanites
    • Who looks like a shining golden Gundam, with Accord level OCD.
      • Sidenote: these two characters really should meet. It would be amusing.
  • Tetra is a sentient mass of super-energized fibers shaped like a mink.
  • Garment is a sentient pair of gloves.
    • Yes, yes, she technically hasn't been revealed to the wider public that she is part of the team (or is just the gloves), but Accord knows, and I'm sure that announcement will come out. Possibly when someone tries to start shit at her shop and learns to regret everything.
  • Avid Glove is an eldritch sentient glove.
  • Lethe doesn't exist in memory most of the time, and when she does, is dressed in a suit of power armor with stripper heels
  • Apeiron is...Apeiron.
Compared to that, Tybalt more or less just seems to be a Case-53; maybe one that is more animal than person, but a Case-53 nonetheless. Given how the rest of the team laughs in the face of fitting into the normal understanding of how parahumans work, seeing a team member that is explainable by the common model of capes has to be a relief. Heck, there's already a newt-man with LSD skin and a snail-man that can spray goo sitting in a nearby booth. Further afield there's Sveta, who is literally just a face, organs, and masses of murderous tentacles. A 3 foot tall cat-man is uncommon, but compared to the rest of his team, an outright bastion of normality.

Also curious to see how the wider world reacts to the idea that Apeiron's team (which needs a name: maybe just call them the Celestial Forge?) has a bunch of Case-53s on it. Tybalt, Garment, and Tetra just outright appear like 53s, and we've seen some characters raise the theory that Apeiron is a 53 (what with the whole dino-wolf mode and the idea that that's his form when his tech fails). Could possibly swing Matrix as a 53 that became living metal.
 
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