Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

[Mesaphrom]

I had some trouble getting what time it was from Gregor´s PoV, it felt like the meal with Accord came out of nowhere and he didn't really seem that excited about the possibility of fixing his c53 form at least a bit. Was it his depression in play? I remember he pretended to attack Faultline so she could overcome the Manton limit in canon, even if that would have ended with him in two pieces if it worked. He has probably already given up.

Does Lisa´s power work on the Workshop Team or will it be stoped by their Simurg defense or some unmentioned item of power? Has he built some anti-master defenses yet? I want to see what Lisa thinks their actual relationship is, does her power say Joe is Dadpeiron of the year?

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First, Uppercrust, not Accord, second, it was mentioned that it was early in the morning, then it transitioned to their lunch meeting with Uppercrust after a briefing with Faultline, after that it jump cutted into Somer's Rock. And, yeah, as far as I can tell he was really depressed until he met Shamrock, though that can be said of every C53.

As for his defenses, IIRC isn't anti-Symurgh, but a blanket anti-Thinker device that just give them fake data instead of outright blocking them, though given that part of TT's Sherlock Scan comes from the data SHE provides instead of it all being from her Shard, I think she should get something from him, if only superficial stuff.

 

[Iread27/9]

I had some trouble getting what time it was from Gregor´s PoV, it felt like the meal with Accord came out of nowhere and he didn't really seem that excited about the possibility of fixing his c53 form at least a bit. Was it his depression in play? I remember he pretended to attack Faultline so she could overcome the Manton limit in canon, even if that would have ended with him in two pieces if it worked. He has probably already given up.

Does Lisa´s power work on the Workshop Team or will it be stoped by their Simurg defense or some unmentioned item of power? Has he built some anti-master defenses yet? I want to see what Lisa thinks their actual relationship is, does her power say Joe is Dadpeiron of the year?

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You mean Uppercrust? Because the whole meeting was about getting them on Aperions side so that there would be less opposition and Uppercrust would have more leverage to get Aperion to cure his inoperable brain tumor

 

[BrawlingBard]

I love this story, for it is truly the Monkey's Paw of fan fiction.
We readers we love content. We want it, we crave it we need it. No matter how fast or consistent an author write we demand MOAR! We wait our days/weeks/months just to finally see what next shall happen in the story, what next in the plot, what next I say to the characters!
And thus we the readers we wished, we wished upon the Monkey's Paw. And we got our wish.
Content. Oh glorious content. And it comes in large amounts on a regular schedule! Oh but what a thing, so amazing. Yet the Monkey's Paw will have it's due. Thus even with all the content our selfish little reader heart's desire, we still have to wait days/weeks/months for the plot to advance. To see what happens next. To see what the characters shall do!

 

[Walliseatscheese]

*stuff about Lisa*

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So the thing about Lisa.

Why she near manically tries to leverage the situation, and poke and prod at Joe to get something out of him and be able to direct him?

Lisa is desperate for some feeling of control over her life.

With Coil, she was recruited at gunpoint and ever since she's been quietly, slowly, working out how to win against him without being murdered or worse.

Then Joe comes in, and he's a phenomenal asset. A new Tinker, who doesn't understand his own value, who has power based urges to help them out? That's prime material to start working more angles to crush Coil.

And then Joe escalates.

Again. And again. And again.

He's gone from "Survived a bombing run from Oni Lee by the skin of his teeth" to "3 Day Old Technology Memes".

He slaps her entire crew with collars.

They're very nice collars! They have lots of very nice functions, including forcefields to protect them from bullets and medical sensor technology to keep them alive. They even come with internet!

These collars even practically makes them immune to Coil trying to murder them!

But they're still collars.

It's even Joe's intention with them, though he wouldn't phrase it like that.

They're his leash to control the Undersiders.

All he wants with them is to keep them safe and not dead, but he still is in control over them.

He still has his tech strapped to their arms, constantly watching and waiting.

And when she tried poking around inside her collar? She gets shut out of the functions she was relying on to try to make the changing situation work.

And once Joe pops Coil? There's literally nothing preventing him from having complete and absolute control over them, over her, and that is terrifying.

Lisa may have legitimate concerns about Joe attacking Coil's operations, especially considering that I don't believe she's managed to narrow down how exactly his Power works, which means he might have a back up plan to kill Joe and make everything awful forever for Lisa (and friends and also the tri state area).

But at the soul of the issue?

Lisa wants some feeling of control over her life, and Joe's patient enough to take her jabs and pokes without torturing her in an alternative timeline.

Once Lisa feels safe (which will take a long time, she was literally tortured by Bakuda, not just in a thrown away timeline), she's going to ease back on the testing and manipulating and focus on figuring out what she wants out of her life beyond survival.

Of course, Joe just escalated again so she's going to be panicking for at least the meeting, probably at least low key for a few days.

Joe honestly doesn't mean any harm against Lisa and the kids, but he still has tremendous power over them not even touching "FTL Yeeting Lung" and that is a stressful existence to be in.

 

[gthesob]

Joe introduces the crew:
Survey! She's like what Tattletale wishes she was only squared... and likeable.
Fleet! He can pilot anything perfectly and make it look easy.
Lethe! I won't bother because it wouldn't help you.
Tybalt! You wouldn't like him when he's angry. The puns are lethal!
Tetra! She's SUPER cuddly!
Matrix! Anything that the situation requires.


As much as it would be fun to see the other people's POVs, it would be probably be overindulgent. Maybe some time in Tattle's POV where she can summarize it for us.

Hopefully Accord is there. Everybody with an ounce of self preservation drops bricks while he's giddy.

So the thing about Lisa. (snip)

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Between the shard and her own personality she can't help but poke the bear. I just can't see her not sabotaging the relationship with Joe without something to break her out of her habits.

 

[Iori_Angel]

That was fucking awesome, the entrance lol.

 

[Zira]

On a side note, I'm wondering how Joe will go about introductions: being intentionally misleading or just lying? Personally, I'd guess being misleading as understatements could be amusing e.g. 'This is Survey, who's got good organising skills, this is Fleet, who can drive well, this is Lethe, who you don't need to worry about, this is Tybalt, a perfectly normal person who's also good at fighting, this is Tetra, who's full of life, and this is Matrix, who likes big robots. Oh, and I'm Apeiron, I make things.'

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For Aisha, it's more, "This is Lethe, you can forget about her."

 

[PinkShadowReader]

So the thing about Lisa.

Why she near manically tries to leverage the situation, and poke and prod at Joe to get something out of him and be able to direct him?

Lisa is desperate for some feeling of control over her life.

With Coil, she was recruited at gunpoint and ever since she's been quietly, slowly, working out how to win against him without being murdered or worse.

Then Joe comes in, and he's a phenomenal asset. A new Tinker, who doesn't understand his own value, who has power based urges to help them out? That's prime material to start working more angles to crush Coil.

And then Joe escalates.

Again. And again. And again.

He's gone from "Survived a bombing run from Oni Lee by the skin of his teeth" to "3 Day Old Technology Memes".

He slaps her entire crew with collars.

They're very nice collars! They have lots of very nice functions, including forcefields to protect them from bullets and medical sensor technology to keep them alive. They even come with internet!

These collars even practically makes them immune to Coil trying to murder them!

But they're still collars.

It's even Joe's intention with them, though he wouldn't phrase it like that.

They're his leash to control the Undersiders.

All he wants with them is to keep them safe and not dead, but he still is in control over them.

He still has his tech strapped to their arms, constantly watching and waiting.

And when she tried poking around inside her collar? She gets shut out of the functions she was relying on to try to make the changing situation work.

And once Joe pops Coil? There's literally nothing preventing him from having complete and absolute control over them, over her, and that is terrifying.

Lisa may have legitimate concerns about Joe attacking Coil's operations, especially considering that I don't believe she's managed to narrow down how exactly his Power works, which means he might have a back up plan to kill Joe and make everything awful forever for Lisa (and friends and also the tri state area).

But at the soul of the issue?

Lisa wants some feeling of control over her life, and Joe's patient enough to take her jabs and pokes without torturing her in an alternative timeline.

Once Lisa feels safe (which will take a long time, she was literally tortured by Bakuda, not just in a thrown away timeline), she's going to ease back on the testing and manipulating and focus on figuring out what she wants out of her life beyond survival.

Of course, Joe just escalated again so she's going to be panicking for at least the meeting, probably at least low key for a few days.

Joe honestly doesn't mean any harm against Lisa and the kids, but he still has tremendous power over them not even touching "FTL Yeeting Lung" and that is a stressful existence to be in.

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Lisa has manipulated Joe to keep him and PRT at odds at each other. A wog said she did it by only saying half of the truth to mean something else. To lie by omission with her goal to deceive. Kinda like the Fey. Coil too has manipulated the scene for that his own stake in it. Just wanting to say that Lisa is no innocent child. However I admit I'm biased against her.

Her position is not enviable but it's not the worst either. It looks like she will need to feel in control first just like you said before she can even approach Joe about Coil. The problem with that Joe is beginning to feel frustrated with her. She has experienced when he gain a sudden power. She knows many examples of power and stability often comes with inverse, -ehm, statistics? Lines? Curves? I'm unsure if she knows anything about Mad Scientist type Tinkers but she has to have heard about them in her PRT info. Anyway, so she is all the time looking out for anything dangerous about Joe while trying to drag her stakes in a correct position to make everything fall just right for the Undersiders benefit. When Apeiron finally got enough visible power that she has seen to take down Coil. Then managed Coil get Travellers in his pocket. She had watched her stakes get better and better odds and just when she thought this might be it then Coil gets back up in forms of the Travellers. With an S-class unstable cape too and suddenly her preparation is in disarray again.

Taylor has been trying to get to their boss, like she no doubt already knows, and it's only Taylor, not Undersiders, that he cares about. At least until recently, I'm still a bit unsure exactly but I think Joe only sees them as kids over their head. But without the community feelings that only time can give, the Undersiders will be alone just like before they meet them. Only now with a more dangerous reputation. One that they cannot get away from.

She has gotten yet another hint by now that Joe isn't an insane nutcase waiting for to go off but a force of nature that cannot be controlled nor stopped. That she will always be surprised by him, and that she can't get a firm measure of his power therefore she doesn't understand his actions. It must be frightening to have that mass of destruction being the one that keeps her new leash. Even if they have a leash on them it's still someone that they need to have around to survive the aftermath. Due to her wanting to feel in control she will continue make mistakes over and over again.

Another pitfall is that she has to get revenge on Coil. She cannot just escape, she must prove that she can win. I think that is another problem that leads her to trying to manipulate and get everyone in position with the right word without their exact knowledge exactly is being done. This will lead her to become the Great Tattletale. The amazing one that is the smartest in the room. The one with the plan.

She has gotten many hints on that she is in over her head but she has always gone back to her name sake. Tattletale. Her coping technique, who she has become ever since she has triggered. She is admitting more and more she doesn't know but I think that might just be her exhaustion speaking and not any character development.

 

[Y Ddraig Goch]

well Boys I'll be back in 2-3 week.,, by then the meeting should be over

 

[Leafy503]

it felt like the meal with Accord came out of nowhere

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Accord? That was Uppercrust.

"Ah, welcome, welcome. Please forgive me for not rising to greet you, but I'm afraid circumstances do not permit it." Uppercrust called.

"That is no problem." Replied Faultline. "I believe we are all saving our strength for this evening."

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he didn't really seem that excited about the possibility of fixing his c53 form at least a bit. Was it his depression in play?

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as far as I can tell he was really depressed until he met Shamrock, though that can be said of every C53.

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I mean he's probably has that subdue aura around him like every C53 has about their own situation. Many of them most likely don't do hope much.

well Boys I'll be back in 2-3 week.,, by then the meeting should be over

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Nah, this meeting will last a month or two... at least.

 

[RegiDelta]

I wanted to joke about Joe being able to implate it in a person because they are just "meat machines" to him, but part of me thinks it may be actually possible....... Unless it's necessary for the machine to have metal parts.

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What do you mean by metal because calcium is metal and there is a lot of metal in a body

And also we need more cat memes so hear it's perfect for the godless world of worm

 

[MagicalAmbitions]

I was under the impression that tinker tech isn't really complete tech and was actually just allowed to because of a connection to a shard which powers it?

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That fanon is derived from the known limitations on tinkertech - it can't be replicated or maintained by non-tinkers. lots of fanfic authors choose to interpret this as "tinkertech is all poorly hacked-together and the shard handles everything on the backend.

Nothing in canon actually supports this idea, though. Some wildbow WoG does say that the shard Does have a heavy influence on the tinkering process, but I choose to interpret it as removing the need for tools-to-build-the-tools, adding a few blackboxes, etc. I just can't see what utility the entities would get from having tinkers building 'tech' that really only serves as an aesthetic to facilitate a broad power expression, rather than building actual advanced technology. why not just flavor them as mages, at that point?

She has gotten many hints on that she is in over her head but she has always gone back to her name sake. Tattletale. Her coping technique, who she has become ever since she has triggered. She is admitting more and more she doesn't know but I think that might just be her exhaustion speaking and not any character development.

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the idea that Lisa could go through the shit she's gone through over the past several days without experiencing any character development is tantamount to character assassination. The exhaustion is what Drives the character development; people don't develop because everything went according to plan and they were able to perfectly handle everything that came their way in a given situation. There are a total of Zero theoretical alternate universes where Lisa does not develop as a result of the continual and extreme exhaustion she's been under for the past week or so.

 

[savlbaeiwq]

Won't it just be Apeiron at the "big boy" table?

I'll be honest, I don't really see how this goes. Uppercrust should be a known commodity to him, so I don't expect he'll instantly nanite-heal the guy in the middle of the summit. He also doesn't need him for money or prestige.

The angle I think Uppercrust needs to hammer is that he's got about 50 cities using old and non functioning versions of his tech to protect their cities. If he can get healing he can help more people.


As far as the Case 53's… I really find it hard to believe Joe wouldn't immediately offer assistance. Not only has he already done it with Weld but he just doesn't seem like he wants to leave them as they are if they want what he's offering.

 

[novorek]

The angle I think Uppercrust needs to hammer is that he's got about 50 cities using old and non functioning versions of his tech to protect their cities. If he can get healing he can help more people.

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That would probably be the best argument that Uppercrust could make to convince Joe. However, Apeiron has pushed the mercenary angle so hard that I would be surprised if that is the first thing that Uppercrust tries. An appeal to humanity isn't the best strategy for someone who appears to primarily be a pure mercenary.

 

[JamesRick29]

That fanon is derived from the known limitations on tinkertech

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Correction tinker tech is the combination of real tech and shards handling background stuff here's a WoG on it

There's a middle ground between the two ideas you posit and tinker powers vary but live somewhere in that middle ground. The reason it's not easily or consistently replicated is because the shard is handling details and working on a level that we can't track or record, and may be plugging itself in to serve functions behind the scenes. That's not necessarily 'here's the fire for your fire lance' but can be keeping levels in balance, monitoring wavelengths, or controlling something that'd otherwise be random.

At the same time, it also supplies knowledge on upkeep and maintenance, that you don't otherwise get. This often feels intuitive to the tinker.

Video record the build and have a man in a remote lab do everything exactly the same while the tinker counsels via. video call, and you'll likely be missing the shard-as-component aspect. When it doesn't work or misfires then the tinker may end up blaming it on human error, regardless.

Have the tinker create gear and hand it over, and you run into the Gearboy problem where you may have the shard plugged in but the operator knowledge isn't there and they make a consistent string of mistakes in operation and day to day maintenance. As far as the tinker is concerned they gave you a microwave and you cleaned the inside with steel wool and left the steel wool inside. You just don't do that, why would you do that? Of course it went wrong!

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I've made some reference to the tinker tech boom in the past, and I think the story does too. That may be feeding into your original impression and plays into the mindset of many Wormverse denizens. Some of this is wormverse inhabitants explaining away the tech leap of the 90s/00s as tinker-led, and some is the skateboard trick phenomenon. That's the (I don't have a better name for it) phenomenon where someone shows a skateboard trick is possible and then people start mastering that trick by the dozens... once people think something is possible they start meeting the new perceived bar. So that did provide some small kick.

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Also here's the link for it Provided by Wildbow

 

[Transreal Cloud]

Correction tinker tech is the combination of real tech and shards handling background stuff here's a WoG on it


Also here's the link for it Provided by Wildbow

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As you said this is Wildbow WoG it may or may not be true in this story.

 

[Introverted]

As far as the Case 53's… I really find it hard to believe Joe wouldn't immediately offer assistance. Not only has he already done it with Weld but he just doesn't seem like he wants to leave them as they are if they want what he's offering.

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He would probably wait after the meeting then approach them regarding an exchange afterwards.

The meeting is kinda focused on the situation of Brockton Bay.

That would probably be the best argument that Uppercrust could make to convince Joe. However, Apeiron has pushed the mercenary angle so hard that I would be surprised if that is the first thing that Uppercrust tries. An appeal to humanity isn't the best strategy for someone who appears to primarily be a pure mercenary.

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Not to mention that appealing to charity from Apeiron would actually make Uppercrust seem more desperate and lacking in resources. Remember there seems to be a brewing civil war within the Elite.

Also, if Uppercrust can provide Joe with stuff he wants then it is better for both of them.

 

[Leafy503]

As far as the Case 53's… I really find it hard to believe Joe wouldn't immediately offer assistance. Not only has he already done it with Weld but he just doesn't seem like he wants to leave them as they are if they want what he's offering.

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He would probably wait after the meeting then approach them regarding an exchange afterwards.

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The problem here isn't that he would or wouldn't. It's that people don't know his actual price. Agonizing over a 'cure' because you don't know what price would actually be demanded is a real fear, especially since Apeiron has kept his whole payment options pretty mysterious.

Weld may have had as many problems with his condition as any Case 53, but there was a good reason he was effectively their spokesman. Nobody would argue with the suggestion that, despite any mitigating factors, he was the best looking of all of them.

Was that why Apeiron had helped him? She thought about Khepri. Rumors were unconfirmed, but there was so denying that the girl was thin, model height, and had amazing hair. Was that the kind of standard Apeiron used? Did she have any hope? Was she wasting her time? The grim clouds of dark thoughts began circling through her mind, threatening to swallow her up.

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"There's… there's a chance he can help. Not just me, everyone. Case 53s, or just people whose powers went out of control. I don't know, I mean it might not be possible, or maybe I'll never be able to afford it, but I have to. I mean, I have to try?"

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[Lucifra]

Or they are a cluster.

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If I recall correctly, in one of the PRT interludes they start thinking "hey he's displaying multiple powers he's probably a cluster cape", possibly driven by Armsmaster due to his Tinker pride making him want to denigrate Chimpanzee Tungsten compared to himself.

 

[idi3da]

better than strait up villainous.

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straight.

rereading the fic for the third(ig)time now lol.

 

[Anaja]

shock still

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No, stock still was accurate.

 

[Suikofan]

Can't wait for Joe to use alchemy, magic and who knows what else to upscale Somer's Rock. Larger on the inside, clean different flags hanging around to denote gang affiliation and so on maybe throw in some shields that make Uppercrust obsolete all because its kinda dusty.

 

[PinkShadowReader]

the idea that Lisa could go through the shit she's gone through over the past several days without experiencing any character development is tantamount to character assassination. The exhaustion is what Drives the character development; people don't develop because everything went according to plan and they were able to perfectly handle everything that came their way in a given situation. There are a total of Zero theoretical alternate universes where Lisa does not develop as a result of the continual and extreme exhaustion she's been under for the past week or so.

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As I said I'm biased against her. I think she is an exceptionally hard type to get any due to her power. That said, just because I doesn't know where her character development begin and end doesn't mean it hasn't happened. For example all these times when she has admitted that she didn't know is it a sign on growth or is it a sign of creeping exhaustion?

 

[Chronocidal]

As you said this is Wildbow WoG it may or may not be true in this story.

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Except that Daxus1120 wasn't talking about whether or not it is true in this story, they were responding to the assertion that the idea was fanon rather than something that came from Wildbow. That's a separate discussion

If the discussion had been about American law, someone mentioned precedent copied from British law, and someone else asked a side-question about whether that was an actual law in the UK or just a tradition/convention without any legal standing (like how the major parties don't campaign in the constituency of the Speaker of the House of Commons), then whether or not it is law in the USA is irrelevant to whether or not it is a law in the UK.

 

[Uchronia]

You know, I actually sympathise more with Uppercrust than Tattletale at this point. I hope he gets a contract with Joe and Joe gets some nifty forecfields. As for Tattletale and the undersiders... she's the character you just love to hate. That said I'm really interested in the whole "case 53 healing" storyline, hope it pans out favourably.