The issue with confronting Coil is Noelle. Tattletale really should tell Joe about Noelle.
Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)
- Thread starter LordRoustabout
- Start date
- Location
- Auckland
My headcanon for Coil's power is it's not looking ahead in time, it's looking sideways through time. Coil isn't seeing the future, he's just seeing two alternate worlds at the same time.
- Location
- That place where I live?
No, it's very Neon Genesis Evangeline. The Crest is there to protect from the sphere, but the crest will only protect the user if it likes them
Remember, the starting thinker immunity perk explicitly excludes Coil by name. We don't know what exactly the mechanism for that is [passenger pretends to be a shard, generally runs interference to deny information to other thinker shards but gives Coil's shard everything? Coil's power is given fiat-backed ability to apply to Joe despite otherwise being an OCP?], but it is a thing.
(Like, I get the impression that it's really more just not wanting to define what exactly it means for Coil's power to hard-fail, in terms of what Coil experiences - but it is part of the constraints that the author has to work within if they're sticking to the rules of the jumpchain)
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Joe hasn't gotten that yet, but yes Lord is effectively running things that way.
I was led to believe that this is one that he gets for free by starting in Worm, rather than one that is obtained in the normal way, and is the reason he wasn't Contessa'd or Ziz'd instantly on sight.
Uhhh....Where did you get that from? The Key Crests aren't sentient. They don't work like that. Only the Expsheres themselves have a sense of sentience, and only then when the souls consumed by them are individual, and strong willed, or strong emotions. Key Crests can be used, and will work, regardless of if it likes the user or not. As they are incapable of liking anyone or anything due to lack of sentience.
Canonically, Key Crests are made from Inhibitor Ore processed by Dwarves, and Expsheres are mined from the earth as a crystalline structure before they are then refined through various methods to create different 'types' of expsheres. With Cruxis Crystals being, to this point in the games canon, the most powerful and top tier expshere. Until the Prototype the MC has came along that is. Which are then further refined from the base form via implanting them into living hosts and draining their life energy and soul through the cruelties of slave labor they are forced through.
Two characters actually. A certain old lady and a certain made. My theory is that while the expsheres do drain their life and soul energy, it doesn't -actually- steal their soul so much as make a copy of it....like WORM Entity Shards. Though...MUCH more proficient at it. Or removing it from them doesn't actually remove the link to the sphere until death.
Nope, it comes with the worm perk Miniaturization/Efficiency.
Also Lord has this to say about the perk:
M/E has it's own problems, the main one being it puts Joe on a timer regarding major precogs. Until now Joe's ability to be predicted was a security blanket for the world's major powers. With that stripped away you will see more desperate actions as they try to regain some kind of handle on the situation.
- Location
- Somewhere on Earth
Oh no, he might be pushed into actually working on specific projects
Subrosian_Smithy
endless
- Location
- Washington
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Hers
God, could you imagine Apeiron coming home like Lindon did?
Telling his family he's here to evacuate them before an Endbringer attack, only for them to talk over him, devalue his accomplishments, and disrespect his agency anyways.
At least Joe didn't begin his Hero's Journey specifically in order to save his family.
They totally would. With a side of believing that he's not actually Aiperion and/or all of Aiperion's tech was given to him by other capes, to further the Lindon parallels.
I'm still confused as to why it puts Joe on a timer, based on the wording of the perk as pointed out by someone else the inconsistencies in predictions should be missatributed. The precogs wouldn't just stop being able to view Joe, it would just show erroneous information. At least that's what I think the perk meant by zero-sum error.
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Teaching (NameOrdane)
NameOrdane
Lurker: The Socially Awkward
My first Omake on this site.
...
Teaching
Joe rushed forward, hoping against hope that he wasn't too late. His dreams were dashed before he can reach his destination. Data from Survey as well as his various senses painting a grim picture.
Jack Slash talking Scion into killing all of humanity.
As he arrives at the scene, Joe thinks back to how it all started.
Jack Slash and Bonesaw releasing their Slaughterhouse 9000 was one thing. On it's own, Joe could have dealt with it with minimal losses. But then they added March to the picture. Joe had no idea how she fused herself with her passenger or whatever the hell she did, but Jack Slash somehow got Bonesaw to backtrack through that connection once they kidnapped her, basically turning March into a planning machine.
March's unwilling (although knowing her she could be all for it, the psycho) cooperation combined with the Slaughterhouse 9000 and their resources lead to chaos. So much chaos in fact, that Joe and his faction were too spread thin to account for everything.
Joe just barely caught wind of Jack Slash approaching Scion in time to interrupt Jack's speech.
He was too late.
With his social powers giving him awareness of Scion's state of mind, Joe new that Scion was contemplating Jack Slash's words. Worse than that, Joe could sense Jack's power sending tendrils of influence to twine around Scion, conveying his intent and argument in a way no mortal form of communication could match. The insidious power whispered enticing promises of happiness, if he only tortured all of humanity across all realities.
Joe couldn't allow this to continue, but he was in a tight spot. Joe didn't know what Scion's reaction would be if he stopped (by any means) Jack Slash from continuing. The situation was to volatile.
Although, this situation could be fortunate, if you squint, tilt your head and ignore all the death and mayhem. Jack Slash managed to break through to Scion, managed to put him in a receptive state of mind. If Joe can convince Scion not to follow through with Jack Slash's proposal, he could deal with the Slaughterhouse 9000 situation and handle whatever happened after that.
Joe accelerated his perception of time manifold before using a combination of his forge powers, technology, and magic to send an information packet to Scion in a similar way to Jack Slash's power. Joe hoped that if he conveyed his counterargument to Scion faster than Jack Slash can process, Jack Slash's power wouldn't have time to counter his work.
The message was [PLEAD], containing the desire to present a different solution to his problem. But it meant more than that. It carried the desperation of cornered animal, the willingness to do whatever it took to ensure survival.
Even in Joe's accelerated state, he could see Scion tilt his head in confusion as he matches the speed the message was conveyed at.
Starting in contemplation at Joe, Scion sent a dispassionate [AGREEMENT].
With his power Fool Proof, Joe managed to teach Scion healthy ways of coping with the loss of his partner, techniques to work around his lack of empathy, ways to find fulfillment, etc. In the hours of compressed time, Joe managed to covey all this by the time Jack Slash started to react.
Scion nodded thoughtfully before flying off in the blink of an eye. Joe sighed on relief, though he knows the danger isn't over yet. If Scion doesn't find happiness following Joe's teaching, he'll follow Jack Slash's suggestion. Joe will have to make preparations for the worse and try to track and keep in contact with Scion.
In the meantime...
Jack Slash looked disgruntled as he finally caught on to what just happened.
"Did you really have to do that?" He asked. "He was about to do something really interesting, then you came and ruined the fun. Do you even know when I'll get another opportunity like that?"
As Jack Slash rants on and on about how frustrated he is, Joe just cracks his knuckles with a malicious aura about him.
...
Teaching
Joe rushed forward, hoping against hope that he wasn't too late. His dreams were dashed before he can reach his destination. Data from Survey as well as his various senses painting a grim picture.
Jack Slash talking Scion into killing all of humanity.
As he arrives at the scene, Joe thinks back to how it all started.
Jack Slash and Bonesaw releasing their Slaughterhouse 9000 was one thing. On it's own, Joe could have dealt with it with minimal losses. But then they added March to the picture. Joe had no idea how she fused herself with her passenger or whatever the hell she did, but Jack Slash somehow got Bonesaw to backtrack through that connection once they kidnapped her, basically turning March into a planning machine.
March's unwilling (although knowing her she could be all for it, the psycho) cooperation combined with the Slaughterhouse 9000 and their resources lead to chaos. So much chaos in fact, that Joe and his faction were too spread thin to account for everything.
Joe just barely caught wind of Jack Slash approaching Scion in time to interrupt Jack's speech.
He was too late.
With his social powers giving him awareness of Scion's state of mind, Joe new that Scion was contemplating Jack Slash's words. Worse than that, Joe could sense Jack's power sending tendrils of influence to twine around Scion, conveying his intent and argument in a way no mortal form of communication could match. The insidious power whispered enticing promises of happiness, if he only tortured all of humanity across all realities.
Joe couldn't allow this to continue, but he was in a tight spot. Joe didn't know what Scion's reaction would be if he stopped (by any means) Jack Slash from continuing. The situation was to volatile.
Although, this situation could be fortunate, if you squint, tilt your head and ignore all the death and mayhem. Jack Slash managed to break through to Scion, managed to put him in a receptive state of mind. If Joe can convince Scion not to follow through with Jack Slash's proposal, he could deal with the Slaughterhouse 9000 situation and handle whatever happened after that.
Joe accelerated his perception of time manifold before using a combination of his forge powers, technology, and magic to send an information packet to Scion in a similar way to Jack Slash's power. Joe hoped that if he conveyed his counterargument to Scion faster than Jack Slash can process, Jack Slash's power wouldn't have time to counter his work.
The message was [PLEAD], containing the desire to present a different solution to his problem. But it meant more than that. It carried the desperation of cornered animal, the willingness to do whatever it took to ensure survival.
Even in Joe's accelerated state, he could see Scion tilt his head in confusion as he matches the speed the message was conveyed at.
Starting in contemplation at Joe, Scion sent a dispassionate [AGREEMENT].
With his power Fool Proof, Joe managed to teach Scion healthy ways of coping with the loss of his partner, techniques to work around his lack of empathy, ways to find fulfillment, etc. In the hours of compressed time, Joe managed to covey all this by the time Jack Slash started to react.
Scion nodded thoughtfully before flying off in the blink of an eye. Joe sighed on relief, though he knows the danger isn't over yet. If Scion doesn't find happiness following Joe's teaching, he'll follow Jack Slash's suggestion. Joe will have to make preparations for the worse and try to track and keep in contact with Scion.
In the meantime...
Jack Slash looked disgruntled as he finally caught on to what just happened.
"Did you really have to do that?" He asked. "He was about to do something really interesting, then you came and ruined the fun. Do you even know when I'll get another opportunity like that?"
As Jack Slash rants on and on about how frustrated he is, Joe just cracks his knuckles with a malicious aura about him.
- Location
- Not here. Maybe on SB.
Are you joking? He answered on the previous page!
Semi-unrelated rant: I understand people who don't have time to read almost 20k of comments. But if you want to participate in discussions, you may at least read a couple of latest pages, for the God's sake!
Moreso, he replied to your comment, so you must've received a notification about it. With a link to the post where your comment been quoted. How did you miss it?
Maybe he responded on AO3 too, but he did it:
On the previous page (from your and @Yakopak's comments).
He kind of did? He chose CF to avoid his original Shard's power and influence, to avoid doing... things... to his family. So, kinda-sorta, he started his hero/villain/mercenary/fashionist/sex-symbol journey to save them.
The Shallow
Shallow, Yet Deep
- Location
- Your Universe
- Pronouns
- She/They
Yeah, Zero-Sum Error means that the calculations are fucking up without an obvious cause, not that suddenly Apeiron doesn't exist in simulations. Still, if all thinker powers are going on the fritz around him and only him, on a level much more severe than before, there will be problems. Really, it might appear that thinkers in Brockton Bay and a bit beyond are getting fucked up, which would not help the Power Tinker theory if people realize proximity to Apeiron increases those issues.
Ziz would be confused as fuck because post-cog and pre-cog are following completely two separate timelines and she can't locate the divergance points, eg. new triggers. This could lead to general desperation to get her precog functioning properly, meaning she might go Scorched Earth during her attacks in the future.
Also, thinking about things, I could imagine David's fucked up psychology sending all three towards BB at once, in defiance of the schedule, thanks to Apeiron.
The perk specifically states that if people are specifically trying to precog Joe that it'll be noticable and measures might be taken.Outside Context Problem said:
The Shallow
Shallow, Yet Deep
- Location
- Your Universe
- Pronouns
- She/They
I don't disagree, although perhaps I overemphasized Ziz's confusion, since Apeiron would be a bit of a common throughline. Zero Sum Error means the error isn't obviously automatically Joe, he doesn't just vanish from models, but yes it will probably quickly be traced back to him, which honestly considering the power-tinker theory and the multiversal stranger effect, won't be THAT surprising.
Yeah I think it's something humans will find very easy to explain away and I wouldn't be surprised if it's a natural progression from the curtain for the Simurgh if it's paying attention. Who knows re Zion. At the very least though it takes away Coil's safety blanket of using Dinah to ask if he'll be attacked which is going to make Coil more likely to act against Joe directly.
AntaeusTheGiant
Child of Gaea
- Location
- Lawrence, KS
@Transreal Cloud , I found an issue with the BCF Reference on the Personal Reality tab. The Perk slot that starts with Medical Bay has a blank as the name, and then either the Costs are all wrong or the Description is.
Thanks again for providing this wonderful and useful service for us.. I esp. like the mathematical and probability breakdown you do after each chapter.
Edit: And now it's fixed. Wow, that was quick!
Double Edit: Um, you misspelled Medical Bay in the name section, though a Medical Bat would be fine too...
Triple Edit: Dam, now that's fixed too. Why no Medical Bat??
Thanks again for providing this wonderful and useful service for us.. I esp. like the mathematical and probability breakdown you do after each chapter.
Edit: And now it's fixed. Wow, that was quick!
Double Edit: Um, you misspelled Medical Bay in the name section, though a Medical Bat would be fine too...
Triple Edit: Dam, now that's fixed too. Why no Medical Bat??
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Oops, Medical Bat indeed.
I just went through and classified Joe's Perks
I labelled them as follows:
Things
Item: Joe gets an item
Facility: Joe gets a warehouse extension
Vehicle: Joe gets a vehicle
Resource: Gives Joe a new material to craft with
Entity: Joe gets a living or at least animate being.
Joe:
Ability: Joe gets a special ability like Beast Change or always knowing where things he crafts are.
Personal: Some change to Joe's Body or person
Skill: Joe gets enhanced skill at some non-crafting ability
System: Joe gets a new system of magic, psychic abilities, techbase etc or enhanced skill at a system he already has. It's only a system if Joe can build on the system to accomplish new things.
Set: Joe gets the ability to craft a fixed set of things.
Understanding: Increases Joe's ability at research, reverse-engineering or design
Crafting boosts
Fiat: Joe's creations get a bonus nobody else can replicate.
Class: Joe gets better at a whole class of crafting
Speed: Something which increases Joe's crafting speed.
Cost: Something which reduces crafting cost.
Quality: Something which increases crafting quality (can't be turned off)
Repair: The ability to repair, salvage or rebuild things.
Later today I'll make a page of the spreadsheet that renders everything in that order
- Location
- Pennsylvania
It occurs to me that the nanomatrix (I don't think it has a name yet?) Could do the repair work in place of Joe to sidestep his epic repair power issues, while still being very fast.
The Shallow
Shallow, Yet Deep
- Location
- Your Universe
- Pronouns
- She/They
Matrix is the name, and yes, that's kinda the point of their existence, they're meant to be a constructor. Also nanomachines allow for greater percision.
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Indeed. Just an application that nobody thought of yet to resolve one of his problems. Probably could use a holographic emitter to cover it and make the illusion of Joe doing the work.
The Shallow
Shallow, Yet Deep
- Location
- Your Universe
- Pronouns
- She/They
Oh. In terms of repair-work at the gym, Matrix is kinda obvious in terms of appearance. Joe doesn't have perfect illusion tech, not yet, so he couldn't quite do that. More trouble than it's worth. There was WOG on this:
Lord has said that Joe is trying not to use Matrix outside of the workshop as part of his anti-thinker strategy.
Edit: Ah, shallow with one of Joe's Elven cloaks beat me to it.
Also the categorized perk list is now live in the reference
Edit: Ah, shallow with one of Joe's Elven cloaks beat me to it.
Also the categorized perk list is now live in the reference
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