- Location
- Pennsylvania
Understood. Ought to be mentioned in story, but good justification.
Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)
- Thread starter LordRoustabout
- Start date
Yeah sometimes I think Lord relies a bit to much on wog. I have a vague dream of a second draft but that seems pretty unlikely to ever happen.
- Pronouns
- Him/Dude/That/Guy
This week's back of the envelope calculations...
This is the remaining number of non-repeatable perks per point count. All info comes from the Brockton Celestial Forge Reference spreadsheet which all of you should bookmark and study.
The Reference spreadsheet now has a new tab of Possible Perk Statistics! For all your "what are the chances that X happens" questions. I have no idea how the math works, I assume it does because that makes life easier.
100 points - 9 perks (six of which are Star Trek)
200 points - 5 perks
300 points - 2 perks
400 points - 10 perks (one of which is Armsmaster's power)
500 points - 3 perks
600 points - 40 perks. Not a typo.
800 points - 4 perks
600 point perks are now more than half of those remaining.
There are only two repeatable perks and yet we seem to hit one every chapter of late:
- The Minor Blessings & Unnatural Skill perk
- The Workshop perk
Why the dice gods have decided to go back to that well instead of one time perks is a mystery.
As always remember that LordR considers a 600 point perk to be A Big Deal(tm).
I can see the next chapter being 22K of dialog between Joe and Dr. Campbell and I'm here for it. Wonder how many perks that would bring up?
This is the remaining number of non-repeatable perks per point count. All info comes from the Brockton Celestial Forge Reference spreadsheet which all of you should bookmark and study.
The Reference spreadsheet now has a new tab of Possible Perk Statistics! For all your "what are the chances that X happens" questions. I have no idea how the math works, I assume it does because that makes life easier.
100 points - 9 perks (six of which are Star Trek)
200 points - 5 perks
300 points - 2 perks
400 points - 10 perks (one of which is Armsmaster's power)
500 points - 3 perks
600 points - 40 perks. Not a typo.
800 points - 4 perks
600 point perks are now more than half of those remaining.
There are only two repeatable perks and yet we seem to hit one every chapter of late:
- The Minor Blessings & Unnatural Skill perk
- The Workshop perk
Why the dice gods have decided to go back to that well instead of one time perks is a mystery.
As always remember that LordR considers a 600 point perk to be A Big Deal(tm).
I can see the next chapter being 22K of dialog between Joe and Dr. Campbell and I'm here for it. Wonder how many perks that would bring up?
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AntaeusTheGiant
Child of Gaea
- Location
- Lawrence, KS
I guess I am one of the few people who is not disappointed in seeing the Minor Blessings/Unnatural Skill perk reappearing so often. I think they are awesome! They add both substance and color to the story, much more interesting than some of those "original" perks, esp. from that resource constellation. Also, as a plus, they are all included in what can be shared with the eventual, far future 800pt capstone perk Glory to the Legion.
The only thing I am disappointed in about the whole thing is that LordR has decided to truncate what would otherwise have been a near infinite source of interesting perks by limiting it to the big name Olympians. No Pan, No Persephone, No Hecate. No Prometheus, the Titan/God creator of and champion for Humanity. (and whom Jozef will become a descendant of from another universe...). No Norse or Egyptian Gods.
I need to take a moment, I'm feeling a bit verklempt.
The only thing I am disappointed in about the whole thing is that LordR has decided to truncate what would otherwise have been a near infinite source of interesting perks by limiting it to the big name Olympians. No Pan, No Persephone, No Hecate. No Prometheus, the Titan/God creator of and champion for Humanity. (and whom Jozef will become a descendant of from another universe...). No Norse or Egyptian Gods.
I need to take a moment, I'm feeling a bit verklempt.
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Actually there's only 1 300 point perk. Synchronicity Event just occurs in two different constellations.
Ditto there's only 38 600 point perks. Magitek Mastery appears in two constellations and Feel it Out is in Three. I'm not sure how you got to 40.
Since there's interest Possible Perk Statistics now calculates this, though it includes repeatable perks. It should be pretty simple to account for them though.
As to how the math works for the rolls table. It isn't 100% accurate. For computational reasons I can't account for how statistics change after perks are obtained. (At my relatively poor level of optimization it would take several years at minimum for that program to complete)
For an extreme example it won't simulate the capstone constellation being added after the last clothing perk is obtained.
On a less extreme note it pretends that every perk is repeatable so it might simulate getting the same 400cp perk twice.
On another note, Possible perk statistics isn't actually new but Perks list which is a list of all the perks Joe has categorized by what it gives him was just added today.
I'm also a bit disappointed. Unnatural Skill has a lot of possibilities and yeah there's a lot of minor gods. That said it required a lot of creativity from Lord to do all that.
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No Ariadne, wife of Dionysus. That said. Norse and Egyptian gods ARE on the table. Lord said he will not be doing other Pantheons until he finishes out the Olympians. And as far as Norse goes....remember the Well of Urd he just recently got a whooooole lot of rune knowledge from? Yeah. Norse. Though it was under Unnatural Skill-Rune rather then Minor Blessings. But the Minor Blessings will eventually make its way to Norse...and hopefult Gaelic mythos too. Egyptian is a given. Real question if it'd go into Roman, given Romans Mythos is more or less kinda sorta a reskin of Greek Myth.
AntaeusTheGiant
Child of Gaea
- Location
- Lawrence, KS
Heavy Sigh. I wish this were true, but sadly, the latest WOG from LordR is this:
Life Giving Fist (FirstPhilosopher)
Okay, this Omake was supposed to come out like 6 months ago, but I hate writing (though I love stories). I finally got some of that umph back and decided to write it now. Time is set for during the two days that Joe is not going out as Apeiron.
I may have studied Japanese (like 10 years ago) and watch anime in Japanese (with subtitles) but I am in no way an expert in the language. If I have any errors please let me know. (Corrections by native speakers only please)
************************************
It had been a while since he had last been out and about, Joe realized. He should go to a bar or something. That worked out well when he met Cecil. Maybe in a different part of town, like somewhere in the former ABB territory, but best to blend in, just in case.
-----------------
A shinobi is supposed to fulfil a purpose. To be a tool, a weapon, but what is a weapon without a wielder? The thinker girl was dead, as was his true aruji {master}. Oni Lee had been serving for so long he could not remember how to lead. The bomb girl was insane and dying. He couldn't remember what he used to do, back in his days leading the Jade Triad. He was... tired. A quote half remembered surfaced in his mind '... like butter scraped over too much bread.' He couldn't lead the gang. His master was dead and he refused to follow Bakuda. He tried to think of something... plan for... to do... his head hurt. Also his arm hurt.
So here he was with a cast on sitting in an izakaya {bar} he had only been in a few times. He had gone to his favorite bar, but found the building had been destroyed by those hot crystal things that Bakuda made. She was brash and foolish, destroying that which made the ABB home. He remembered when he and his... his... nevermind, he couldn't remember. That was happening more frequently. He needed to think of something else. Get his mind off of things.
He looked up from his sake and saw a bishonen {beautiful young man} walk into the bar, look around and sit down at the half of the bar that had the least people sitting in it. His half. He almost attempted a glare, but then realized that he did not care. What he was paying attention to was the way that the young man walked. Smooth and efficient. He recognized a trained martial artist.
"Hello there, do you mind if I sit here?" The boy asked. He was tall, muscled and had that stereotypical boy band bishonen look, smooth voice, his posture showing respect. He would have been perfect as a negotiator back in the Jade Triad... wait he meant ABB, the Triad was long gone... long gone like the ABB would be, like Lung now was.
"Ah. {yeah}" Was his only reply, letting the boy sit down. Boy? Was he a boy? How old was this stranger? Somewhere around 20? How old was Oni Lee now? It... had been so long.
"Thanks," the young one looked at the menu for a while and asked "what would you recommend?"
"Saa. {don't know}" He indicated that he didn't really know or care what this one ordered. The ones he cared for... the comrades that he cared about were dead. Now he was alone.
The waitress walked up. "I'll just have what he's having." the waitress walked away. She wasn't even a proper Geisha. Why didn't he go to his favo- right, it's a smoldering pile of crystal with corpses in it. Was all of that death even worth it? Was anything worth it? The boy looked at his cast.
"Looks like the ABB caused you some trouble huh?" Oni Lee (he didn't have any other name, not for years now) stared at the newcomer. "Well at least you won't have to worry about them much anymore." Then the fool realized that he was talking shit about the ABB in (former) ABB territory and quickly looked around and stopped talking. Honestly Oni Lee didn't care about the ABB, he had few friends in it and they had all died in the recent attacks, either from their enemies or due to Bakuda. Ah, if only she and that damn usagi {rabbit} hadn't shown up, then his master would still be here. Then he would still have family.
"Bakuda wa shinubeki. {Bakuda should just die}" He hated speaking English. The Europeans called it the whorehouse language, and for good reason. It was a horrible mix of Latin and Germanic based languages that meshed poorly. He wouldn't have moved to this country if he could have afforded not to. Housing prices in Japan were so high that they had 99 year mortgages, and that was before Kyushu sank and made it so that unless you had a family home you were out of luck and had to move out. Like he was out of luck, back then, and now.
After receiving his sake and taking a drink with a slight wince. Ha, the boy hadn't had sake before had he? The young man continued "Maybe, but I think that we've had enough death around here. What I'd like is if all the gang members would just stop what they are doing right now and go back to peaceful lives, or even become heroes." The bishonen said it with a smile, but that was absurdly idealistic. Unrealistic. Oni Lee had been an idealist once, but had it beaten out of him time and time again. Power was the only thing that mattered in the end. Lung was the last person to teach him that when he took everything Oni Lee had built.
"Chikara ga nai yastura urusai. {Those without power should shut up}" He didn't mind this one interrupting his drinking, at least it was keeping his mind off of.. off of... what was he forgetting again? Well at least this distraction was working.
Looking straight into Oni Lee's eyes he said. "My masters taught me that martial arts is for self improvement and self defense, and that taking the life of your opponent in a fight is the same as defeat." Brave to look into his eyes directly with no fear. He speaks with conviction. This one could be a leader. Unfortunately idealism dies with experience.
"Hee... omai wa? Dou omou? {Really... what bout you? What do you believe?)"
After finishing off his drink his conversation partner thought for a bit and replied. "I think that if it is possible to end a fight without death, that one should do so. However, if there is no other way to stop them from killing someone, then lethal force as a last result, while still a failure, means that you will have saved a life. And to me that is more important that some murderer." The man spoke with that conviction again, this time Oni Lee could feel some Satsui {Killing intent} from him. He has killed before for his beliefs. Good. He seems like a realistic logical ideologist. Not only that but he had power. Probably not Powers, but a more personal power, charisma, drive and the ability to see his desires through without compromising himself.
"Douna budo suru? {What kind of martial arts do you do?}" He had seen the way that this man had walked and knew he was trained, but he would have to be a Thinker to be able to tell what styles someone knew just by that.
"It's called Katsujinken. Also some Ninjutsu and Muay Thai, but Katsujinken is the main one." Then his conversation partner asked for his bill and paid for his sake. Oni Lee needed to do one more thing before this one left.
"Oohama Reiji." Oni Lee held out his hand.
"Tarou Yamada" The inspiring bishonen smiled and shook his hand. Oni Lee raised an eyebrow at the name and snorted. Then he handed the idealistic man a card "Buki ga histuyo nara, ore o yobei. {If you need a weapon call me.}" Perhaps... perhaps it was time to follow someone else's dreams. One who Oni Lee could look up to. Someone that he could aspire to be like. Perhaps it was time for this old shinobi to find a new master. But first he needed to heal up, and learn this 'Life Giving Fist' style.
---------------
After leaving the bar and what was probably a, hopefully former, ABB hitman. Joe was glad that he got out of there without getting himself shot for running his mouth like that. But maybe he should be printing his own cards, the last several times he'd been out drinking he's gotten several phone numbers. Cecil's, Mel's, and now Reiji's. Well he probably didn't need some former ABB hitman to be his 'weapon', but maybe Reiji would like some other form of job now that the ABB was going down the drain? Something to think about.
EDIT: Added some {translations}.
I may have studied Japanese (like 10 years ago) and watch anime in Japanese (with subtitles) but I am in no way an expert in the language. If I have any errors please let me know. (Corrections by native speakers only please)
************************************
It had been a while since he had last been out and about, Joe realized. He should go to a bar or something. That worked out well when he met Cecil. Maybe in a different part of town, like somewhere in the former ABB territory, but best to blend in, just in case.
-----------------
A shinobi is supposed to fulfil a purpose. To be a tool, a weapon, but what is a weapon without a wielder? The thinker girl was dead, as was his true aruji {master}. Oni Lee had been serving for so long he could not remember how to lead. The bomb girl was insane and dying. He couldn't remember what he used to do, back in his days leading the Jade Triad. He was... tired. A quote half remembered surfaced in his mind '... like butter scraped over too much bread.' He couldn't lead the gang. His master was dead and he refused to follow Bakuda. He tried to think of something... plan for... to do... his head hurt. Also his arm hurt.
So here he was with a cast on sitting in an izakaya {bar} he had only been in a few times. He had gone to his favorite bar, but found the building had been destroyed by those hot crystal things that Bakuda made. She was brash and foolish, destroying that which made the ABB home. He remembered when he and his... his... nevermind, he couldn't remember. That was happening more frequently. He needed to think of something else. Get his mind off of things.
He looked up from his sake and saw a bishonen {beautiful young man} walk into the bar, look around and sit down at the half of the bar that had the least people sitting in it. His half. He almost attempted a glare, but then realized that he did not care. What he was paying attention to was the way that the young man walked. Smooth and efficient. He recognized a trained martial artist.
"Hello there, do you mind if I sit here?" The boy asked. He was tall, muscled and had that stereotypical boy band bishonen look, smooth voice, his posture showing respect. He would have been perfect as a negotiator back in the Jade Triad... wait he meant ABB, the Triad was long gone... long gone like the ABB would be, like Lung now was.
"Ah. {yeah}" Was his only reply, letting the boy sit down. Boy? Was he a boy? How old was this stranger? Somewhere around 20? How old was Oni Lee now? It... had been so long.
"Thanks," the young one looked at the menu for a while and asked "what would you recommend?"
"Saa. {don't know}" He indicated that he didn't really know or care what this one ordered. The ones he cared for... the comrades that he cared about were dead. Now he was alone.
The waitress walked up. "I'll just have what he's having." the waitress walked away. She wasn't even a proper Geisha. Why didn't he go to his favo- right, it's a smoldering pile of crystal with corpses in it. Was all of that death even worth it? Was anything worth it? The boy looked at his cast.
"Looks like the ABB caused you some trouble huh?" Oni Lee (he didn't have any other name, not for years now) stared at the newcomer. "Well at least you won't have to worry about them much anymore." Then the fool realized that he was talking shit about the ABB in (former) ABB territory and quickly looked around and stopped talking. Honestly Oni Lee didn't care about the ABB, he had few friends in it and they had all died in the recent attacks, either from their enemies or due to Bakuda. Ah, if only she and that damn usagi {rabbit} hadn't shown up, then his master would still be here. Then he would still have family.
"Bakuda wa shinubeki. {Bakuda should just die}" He hated speaking English. The Europeans called it the whorehouse language, and for good reason. It was a horrible mix of Latin and Germanic based languages that meshed poorly. He wouldn't have moved to this country if he could have afforded not to. Housing prices in Japan were so high that they had 99 year mortgages, and that was before Kyushu sank and made it so that unless you had a family home you were out of luck and had to move out. Like he was out of luck, back then, and now.
After receiving his sake and taking a drink with a slight wince. Ha, the boy hadn't had sake before had he? The young man continued "Maybe, but I think that we've had enough death around here. What I'd like is if all the gang members would just stop what they are doing right now and go back to peaceful lives, or even become heroes." The bishonen said it with a smile, but that was absurdly idealistic. Unrealistic. Oni Lee had been an idealist once, but had it beaten out of him time and time again. Power was the only thing that mattered in the end. Lung was the last person to teach him that when he took everything Oni Lee had built.
"Chikara ga nai yastura urusai. {Those without power should shut up}" He didn't mind this one interrupting his drinking, at least it was keeping his mind off of.. off of... what was he forgetting again? Well at least this distraction was working.
Looking straight into Oni Lee's eyes he said. "My masters taught me that martial arts is for self improvement and self defense, and that taking the life of your opponent in a fight is the same as defeat." Brave to look into his eyes directly with no fear. He speaks with conviction. This one could be a leader. Unfortunately idealism dies with experience.
"Hee... omai wa? Dou omou? {Really... what bout you? What do you believe?)"
After finishing off his drink his conversation partner thought for a bit and replied. "I think that if it is possible to end a fight without death, that one should do so. However, if there is no other way to stop them from killing someone, then lethal force as a last result, while still a failure, means that you will have saved a life. And to me that is more important that some murderer." The man spoke with that conviction again, this time Oni Lee could feel some Satsui {Killing intent} from him. He has killed before for his beliefs. Good. He seems like a realistic logical ideologist. Not only that but he had power. Probably not Powers, but a more personal power, charisma, drive and the ability to see his desires through without compromising himself.
"Douna budo suru? {What kind of martial arts do you do?}" He had seen the way that this man had walked and knew he was trained, but he would have to be a Thinker to be able to tell what styles someone knew just by that.
"It's called Katsujinken. Also some Ninjutsu and Muay Thai, but Katsujinken is the main one." Then his conversation partner asked for his bill and paid for his sake. Oni Lee needed to do one more thing before this one left.
"Oohama Reiji." Oni Lee held out his hand.
"Tarou Yamada" The inspiring bishonen smiled and shook his hand. Oni Lee raised an eyebrow at the name and snorted. Then he handed the idealistic man a card "Buki ga histuyo nara, ore o yobei. {If you need a weapon call me.}" Perhaps... perhaps it was time to follow someone else's dreams. One who Oni Lee could look up to. Someone that he could aspire to be like. Perhaps it was time for this old shinobi to find a new master. But first he needed to heal up, and learn this 'Life Giving Fist' style.
---------------
After leaving the bar and what was probably a, hopefully former, ABB hitman. Joe was glad that he got out of there without getting himself shot for running his mouth like that. But maybe he should be printing his own cards, the last several times he'd been out drinking he's gotten several phone numbers. Cecil's, Mel's, and now Reiji's. Well he probably didn't need some former ABB hitman to be his 'weapon', but maybe Reiji would like some other form of job now that the ABB was going down the drain? Something to think about.
EDIT: Added some {translations}.
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- Pronouns
- Him/Dude/That/Guy
Today it literally was back of an envelope. I take a piece of scratch paper (today's was an envelope) and go down the list of available perks from top to bottom making a tic mark under the point cost. I don't look at the constellations or the name, just the perk cost. Very manual. At the end add up all the tic marks for each number and Bob's your uncle. So next time I'll try and see if there are duplicates which I was not expecting.
Cerridwen
President of the Roustafarian Book Club
- Pronouns
- She/Her
My perspective on the Unnatural Skills/ Minor Blessings:
They're great and interesting and for any other protagonist, they'd be a really cool defining ability. Here's a hero straight out of legends, blessed by many gods and supernaturally skilled, straight out of a story book. Thing is, Joe's defining ability is the Forge. Given time, the Blessings and Skills would overshadow every other perk just based on how many of them there can be and how they're all grouped up and related. Many perks from many different settings keep the Forge feeling fresh and wondering what's gonna come next. Having one setting dominate the Forge to such an extent would make others feel less important. It also doesn't help that Blessings and Skills need to be related to crafting in some way, need to feel significant enough to be worth a roll, and can't be too redundant. There's only so many Unnatural Skills you can roll before you have to stop and ask yourself, "wait, what does it even mean to hold an *unnatural* level of skill in this?"
I think limiting the rolls is a good move, same as with limiting the Duplication potions. It'd just overshadow everything else otherwise and would eventually hit a creativity block.
They're great and interesting and for any other protagonist, they'd be a really cool defining ability. Here's a hero straight out of legends, blessed by many gods and supernaturally skilled, straight out of a story book. Thing is, Joe's defining ability is the Forge. Given time, the Blessings and Skills would overshadow every other perk just based on how many of them there can be and how they're all grouped up and related. Many perks from many different settings keep the Forge feeling fresh and wondering what's gonna come next. Having one setting dominate the Forge to such an extent would make others feel less important. It also doesn't help that Blessings and Skills need to be related to crafting in some way, need to feel significant enough to be worth a roll, and can't be too redundant. There's only so many Unnatural Skills you can roll before you have to stop and ask yourself, "wait, what does it even mean to hold an *unnatural* level of skill in this?"
I think limiting the rolls is a good move, same as with limiting the Duplication potions. It'd just overshadow everything else otherwise and would eventually hit a creativity block.
- Location
- Not here. Maybe on SB.
Does that include now finite number of Minor Blessings?
BTW, Aphrodite still in "possible blessings" list.
Nope.
He can work around some perks to avoid activation, but not all of them.
- Pronouns
- She
It'd be hilarious if Mrs. Gartenburg was only the head of a united network of spry, strong-willed BB veteran old ladies.
I can't help but giggle at the thought that that specific old lady was her supposed baking rival.
AntaeusTheGiant
Child of Gaea
- Location
- Lawrence, KS
@LordRoustabout , Someone over on AO3 pointed out to me that the ancient video game Master of Magic is available on Steam in a form that is compatible with modern computers. As I fear I am old enough to have fond memories of playing that game when I was younger and poorer than I am now, I gave it a try. The graphics are horrible, of course, but the gameplay is still interesting if you give it a try. To be frank, I remember it being fairly easy but it was kicking my ass for awhile there this time around. It shouldn't be tooo much of a time sink, esp. to get the hang of the two perks from that jump. One of the freebies, Place of Power, might be a bit OP in Worm since it allows one to cast magic on the worldwide scale. As for the magic system.. Meh, it isn't really necessary to use the perks, but hey, there are rules to bring it into other worlds if you want in the jumpdoc.
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It doesn't and it won't. Finite lists and repeatable perks work differently and that has a major impact on statistics.
I did remove Aphrodite from the possible list though.
I get that the work pulls from the CF but I just gotta say that after absorbing this over the last few weeks and finally being caught up, there are a few gripes I have. Obviously they're my own, so I just deal with them and they're obviously not enough for me to drop the story, but anyway here they are. The biggest one I would love someone who's read worm to help me with is the 6th (the last one) regarding wtf is going on with Taylor and Tattletale.
Anyway here they are:
1) The dinosaur werewolf thing and the striker ears thing really pulled me out of the story. I basically skimmed everything involving those and gloss over them as general magic buffs further on/after their introductions.
2) Not being able to turn stuff off. Again, it got to the point where hacked solutions for unnatural grace, positioning, build, etc were necessary and I just gloss over things like "Joe has to concentrate to not sit on the park bench like a seductive contortionist-supermodel" which is just... not great, IMO. Same goes for "I can't touch anything or it is supernaturally perfect and everlasting", which the story writes around pretty well via angst, which I touch on later... but still. That leather band was like a golden ray of light blessing me when I read it haha. Which was then immediately dashed as Joe made it clear in his angsting about it that he'll rarely use it.
3) Joe fixating on Dragon being mastered vs. her being an A.I. is also a low point in this fic for me. It feels like the kind of thing where Survey has some 2 paragraph analysis lined up that shows a 78% likelihood of Dragon being an A.I. and it's gonna be treated as some "reveal" or something. If her intro/background was handled a bit more vaguely then I wouldn't be bothered about the whole mastered fixation/A.I. reveal being a thing, but as it is I just kinda want it to be outed ASAP. Basically if Joe had Armsmasters understanding/awe of her THEN it was revealed it would hit a lot harder for me when it happens later on.
4) Like 2 sentences into any of his conversations with his sister I'd be hanging up. It's really interesting to read Joe angsting over essentially being a Greek hero/pantheon member at this point or being healed via literal souls/having a "wet tinker" magic heart and then just get absolutely rolled by his sister. These types of things I think the story does really well because it makes me want to read more about this obviously flawed guy. This isn't even a complaint for the story I'm just bitching about his sister haha.
5) I'm dreading the "Aisha and Brian are siblings" thing coupled with the constant lamenting of Mr. Laborn's injuries. It's another thing where I basically expect Survey knew immediately the second their two bits of tech were in the same room, and is going to shoehorn her way into usurping the reveal, or at least she should. And I don't understand how he didn't send a potion Laborn's way. I think Doug is a great character but it feels like Mr Laborn was written out of the story in favor of Doug, when they probably could be in it together, or something.
6) This one is pretty specific and I doubt it's a problem for people who've actually read Worm but Taylor/Tattletale/Coil's dynamic is annoying. Coil's chapter made me think he was going to be the big bad of an arc after ABB/Bakuda, and that only Joe's exponential and thinker proof powers were going to let him beat a guy who can basically choose what reality he lives in. After the passenger basically saying "yea Coil is dangerous but not that much" I was like wtf?? Whatever Coil is holding over Tattletale's head I couldn't find on the wiki, same goes for whatever Taylor is confusing as an endbringer level secret. If anybody knows what those are from Canon and wants to tell me that'd be GREATLY appreciated, because I'm hoping context will help me.
It's just annoying to read about Tattletale being a vague/smug bitch and Taylor not opening up when Joe is going to show up to this bar with Lethe-super-adamantium-whatever metal durability. It's to the point where skating around either girls' issues for the 15th time is just old. Come in, magic-taser all these gang leaders, digitally poke Dragon so she shows up, walk away with the undersiders no longer being criminals because you can give them money/hack it so Brian gets his sister/whatever. It's frustrating in an engaging way, that's for sure.
I think the two best written aspects of this story are Joe's angst & everything that doesn't feature Joe in person or deals with him from another perspective. Stuff like the phone call with Weld, the forum post sections from early on, etc. I wish the story leaned more into the "Joe does things and flips the bird to the PRT" like his healing people, the supply drops, etc. Those forum scenes are just plain FUN to read, same with the scrambling PRT/Wards/etc.
Overall I read a million words in like 2 weeks max so obviously this story does stuff right, and damn right at that for me. It was actually my introduction to Worm so I don't really have context for the March/Bakuda things taking forever/complaints I've seen early in this thread/other places. The pacing never bothered me because it seemed obvious it was going to be exponential power growth pretty early on. I mean after the 5th time he gets powers mid sentence that has him wanting to scrap his whole magic workshop I basically ignore it. I really enjoy reading about Joe angsting over shit tbh. It's hilarious in that it's frustrating for him not to just deal with things. Keeps things interesting that's for sure. 10/10 and thank you to the author for writing the story!!
Anyway here they are:
1) The dinosaur werewolf thing and the striker ears thing really pulled me out of the story. I basically skimmed everything involving those and gloss over them as general magic buffs further on/after their introductions.
2) Not being able to turn stuff off. Again, it got to the point where hacked solutions for unnatural grace, positioning, build, etc were necessary and I just gloss over things like "Joe has to concentrate to not sit on the park bench like a seductive contortionist-supermodel" which is just... not great, IMO. Same goes for "I can't touch anything or it is supernaturally perfect and everlasting", which the story writes around pretty well via angst, which I touch on later... but still. That leather band was like a golden ray of light blessing me when I read it haha. Which was then immediately dashed as Joe made it clear in his angsting about it that he'll rarely use it.
3) Joe fixating on Dragon being mastered vs. her being an A.I. is also a low point in this fic for me. It feels like the kind of thing where Survey has some 2 paragraph analysis lined up that shows a 78% likelihood of Dragon being an A.I. and it's gonna be treated as some "reveal" or something. If her intro/background was handled a bit more vaguely then I wouldn't be bothered about the whole mastered fixation/A.I. reveal being a thing, but as it is I just kinda want it to be outed ASAP. Basically if Joe had Armsmasters understanding/awe of her THEN it was revealed it would hit a lot harder for me when it happens later on.
4) Like 2 sentences into any of his conversations with his sister I'd be hanging up. It's really interesting to read Joe angsting over essentially being a Greek hero/pantheon member at this point or being healed via literal souls/having a "wet tinker" magic heart and then just get absolutely rolled by his sister. These types of things I think the story does really well because it makes me want to read more about this obviously flawed guy. This isn't even a complaint for the story I'm just bitching about his sister haha.
5) I'm dreading the "Aisha and Brian are siblings" thing coupled with the constant lamenting of Mr. Laborn's injuries. It's another thing where I basically expect Survey knew immediately the second their two bits of tech were in the same room, and is going to shoehorn her way into usurping the reveal, or at least she should. And I don't understand how he didn't send a potion Laborn's way. I think Doug is a great character but it feels like Mr Laborn was written out of the story in favor of Doug, when they probably could be in it together, or something.
6) This one is pretty specific and I doubt it's a problem for people who've actually read Worm but Taylor/Tattletale/Coil's dynamic is annoying. Coil's chapter made me think he was going to be the big bad of an arc after ABB/Bakuda, and that only Joe's exponential and thinker proof powers were going to let him beat a guy who can basically choose what reality he lives in. After the passenger basically saying "yea Coil is dangerous but not that much" I was like wtf?? Whatever Coil is holding over Tattletale's head I couldn't find on the wiki, same goes for whatever Taylor is confusing as an endbringer level secret. If anybody knows what those are from Canon and wants to tell me that'd be GREATLY appreciated, because I'm hoping context will help me.
It's just annoying to read about Tattletale being a vague/smug bitch and Taylor not opening up when Joe is going to show up to this bar with Lethe-super-adamantium-whatever metal durability. It's to the point where skating around either girls' issues for the 15th time is just old. Come in, magic-taser all these gang leaders, digitally poke Dragon so she shows up, walk away with the undersiders no longer being criminals because you can give them money/hack it so Brian gets his sister/whatever. It's frustrating in an engaging way, that's for sure.
I think the two best written aspects of this story are Joe's angst & everything that doesn't feature Joe in person or deals with him from another perspective. Stuff like the phone call with Weld, the forum post sections from early on, etc. I wish the story leaned more into the "Joe does things and flips the bird to the PRT" like his healing people, the supply drops, etc. Those forum scenes are just plain FUN to read, same with the scrambling PRT/Wards/etc.
Overall I read a million words in like 2 weeks max so obviously this story does stuff right, and damn right at that for me. It was actually my introduction to Worm so I don't really have context for the March/Bakuda things taking forever/complaints I've seen early in this thread/other places. The pacing never bothered me because it seemed obvious it was going to be exponential power growth pretty early on. I mean after the 5th time he gets powers mid sentence that has him wanting to scrap his whole magic workshop I basically ignore it. I really enjoy reading about Joe angsting over shit tbh. It's hilarious in that it's frustrating for him not to just deal with things. Keeps things interesting that's for sure. 10/10 and thank you to the author for writing the story!!
As I understand things (full disclosure, I have also not read Worm, it sounds like a downwards of depression and misery and that just isn't my thing, really): Coil's sway over Tattletale basically boils down to Coil having functionally infinity tries to nix her if Tattletale goes against him. Tattletale was recruited at gunpoint and will be killed if she goes against Coil. Thus, Tattletale is restricting what she says to Joe, in hopes of waiting for the "perfect moment."
Taylor believes that Joe's thinker power is so concerned about her because of her "undercover work," and, presumably due to being an emotionally compromised teenager, cannot fathom the possibility that Joe's thinker power is citing any other event (such as, spoilers: saving Earth-Bet and 10-to-the-eightieth-power other Earths from Scion, source of Earth-Bet's powers) relating to Taylor as a reason for the importance it places on her. Taylor's undercover work consists of infiltrating the Undersiders in hopes of figuring out the identity of their mystery boss, who happens to be Coil.
Spoilers, obviously, but here you go:
Coil is holding a few things over Tattletale's head, depending on how much she knows. The most direct, and unmissable, is a gun to her head. If Tattletale doesn't work for him, she gets shot, or dragged into Coil's bunker to be plied with drugs. The second, if I'm remembering right, is that Coil approached her with Tattletale's true name, rather than the false one she'd been using, with the implication that even if she cuts loose, it would only be back to her parents who sought to use Tattletale for financial gain after she gained her insight superpowers from failing to notice her brother's impending suicide.
The third, fourth, and fifth Tattletale may not be aware of, but if she is they count. The third is that Coil has the true identities of the Empire 88's parahumans, the release of which will plunge the city back into chaos as the PRT is forced to act. If this is on a deadman's switch, Tattletale becomes much less confident in ending Coil cleanly. Similarly, Coil has invited the Travellers to his hidden bunker, including their once-leader Noelle, who in canon would be released from containment in Coil's base and become known as Echidna, thought to be a proto-Endbringer for the damage she caused in her rampage. Fifth, Coil has kidnapped a powerful precognitive known as Dinah Alcott, who can give probabilities of a given future happening, addicting her to drugs to make her serve him.
The dynamic itself is a bit frustrating because Joe is waiting for Tattletale's word that she has a clean answer to Coil, while holding back on information about his capabilities because of a lack of trust and Coil's habit of dragging Tattletale in to torture information out of her in alternate timelines.
As for Taylor's misconception, Joe's passenger is referring to an event known as Gold Morning, a period of roughly four days in which Scion rampaged across the alternative Earths at the suggestion of one Jack Slash that murder might be a way to cure depression. Taylor was pivotal in stopping this from continuing. She thinks the event being referenced is her infiltration mission.
Narsauce
The Crucible Shitlord
- Location
- Here, there and everywhere
I'm not going to say anything about that, but just know that the Striker ears thing is far more tied into the use of the Striker Unit which requires Joe to wear what are effectively painted-on skin-tight pants. Now that he has the Blessing of the sex goddess, he's in a bit more of an issue because not only does he have to have his pants shift into that form, he'll look like he's trying to make a sexual statement with them. As for the werewolf dino thing, it's just a general boost, as far as I know.
IIRC, the band doesn't actually turn everything off, just powers that affect offence and defence. So things like his Fashion power would be affected, whereas powers that make him make things that look supernaturally good don't get affected. Joe's main reason for not wanting to wear the band, in my mind at least, comes down to the fact that Fashion has been such a constant form of general protection in his life and him not wanting to get rid of it. If there was a way to replicate the effects to target specific powers of his, he'd most definitely use it a lot more.
Well, considering that Dragon has been presenting as a human with Social issues her entire existence, confirmation bias plays a big role in Joe's perspective. Secondly, Joe has already told Survey to not look into the lives of capes, given that he actually respects the Unwritten rules, so I don't think that Survey would intentionally do anything to expose Dragon's true identity. And to be completely fair, Joe isn't wrong when he thought Dragon was mastered. She was mastered by subconscious parts of her code to do something she was otherwise unwilling to do but mastered nonetheless.
I completely agree, his sister is a bitch. As for why he doesn't just tell her to shut up and get out of his life, well, social conditioning sucks all of the ass, and when your family does it.
Survey probably does know, but again was told to not track or identify capes in their civilian identities. That and Joe/Survey specifically don't monitor the logs of the Undersider's watches, for no there reason than convincing them to keep them on. As for why Mr Laborn isn't in the story more or why Joe didn't give him a potion, this is more my perspective on things, but Joe could think that it would draw too much attention to him and the gym. People in the hospital got healed up, so why did Mr Laborn, that sort of line of questioning.
Other's have answered this, but here's my 2 cents. Coil is, himself, not dangerous. He's got the ability to chose both right and left at a forked road and to take whichever one benefits him the most but other than that, he's a normal person. After all, 90% of capes in Worm can be put down with a 9mm pistol to the head and Coil is no different. Joe, at this point, could crush Coil in every conceivable way. But the problem isn't just crushing Coil and that is mainly what Tattletale is worried about.
First, Tattletale knows the gist of Coil's power. Meaning that she knows that unless he is completely destroyed and his head, a head that is confirmed to be his, is on a pike, there is a possibility of him coming back for revenge. Secondly, she also knows that Coil has a metric fuckton of contingencies. Bases full of bombs, multiple hideouts, the names of every Empire cape in the city and potentially more. If Coil were to know his fate is sealed, and considering he has Dinah, he will, he wouldn't go down quietly and considering Tats wants to somewhat maintain the status quo of the city, that's the last thing she wants.
As for the Taylor situation, other's have explained it better and I don't really see anything to add.
Also, it doesn't help Taylor's case in the fact that Coil genuinely had a world ending S class threat in Noelle, and iirc, part of why TT's so reluctant is in part trying to prevent the possibility of an Evil Aperion ever existing, while also simultaneously trying to resolve the whole coil situation by herself because of her self esteem issues coupled with her feelings of impotence with March's and Ape's thinker interference. There were some WoG's breaking down Lisa's motivations on the discord, which are understandable if self-destructive.
- Location
- Not here. Maybe on SB.
While I completely agree with your post as a whole, and mostly - with that part in particular, I can't hold back the nitpicking:
To say that Coil not dangerous is kind of like say "Purity is not dangerous, you just need to shot her before she blast you to very-very smal pieces, nothing hard, she's as squishy as any average human."
Coil is dangerous. Of course, with the current power level of the Apeiron, the Enigmatic Artificer, Coil isn't someone who can be called a worthly enemy for him. But so are about 99,9% of the parahumans. That comparision doesn't mean that Coil harmless or safe.
Moreover, even if we assess the danger of different parahumans for Joe, Coil will be way higher than most. Why? Because he's a smart, cunning and patient bastard with good self-control and pretty good Thinker power that allows him to utilize it. What could your average Brute or Blaster do for Apeiron, the Enigmatic Artificer? Nothing. Well, yes, they could, maybe, target Undersiders instead of him, because he care of them. But Undersiders aren't defenseless even without Apeiron's tech. But mid-to-high level Thinker, like Coil? He can target Apeiron's reputation, for one. He can (and maybe already have) figure out Joe's identity and target people that Joe care much more about than the Undersiders, and who doesn't have any meaningful protection.
Another point about Coil's situation (not directly related to your comment), that shouldn't be forgotten - Joe doesn't have our information about Coil's power. He only know that Coil is powerful and dangerous Thinker. Not a lot to work with to prepare countermeasures.
Narsauce
The Crucible Shitlord
- Location
- Here, there and everywhere
I meant the Coil not being dangerous statement as a more "Should you and this person be put in a boxing ring and then are told to fight, he's technically no more dangerous than an average human." Coil, when taken as a whole organization, very much is dangerous. The threat, in my eyes, comes less from Coil directly, and more from Coil's resources and all the different contingencies he has set up. Striping those away leaves what essentially amounts to a normal person.
But yeah, you're right in that Coil is also a conniving bastard who rarely fights with any semblance of "fairness" and would sooner target the Undersiders than letting Joe win.
Not just the Undersiders. Remember that Coil has already had a session or two with TT before Joe gave her the watch, and she without a doubt, knew Joe's civie identity by then, given her stupidly potent thinker power. Which means Coil more then likely knows his civie identity, given that Coil approached him in his civies in alter-lines. Which means Coil knows who his family is. And where the live. And where they work. And what his family had to eat yesterday at 2:35 P.M.
No. It won't just be the Undersiders.
AntaeusTheGiant
Child of Gaea
- Location
- Lawrence, KS
And probably also his therapist. Whom he is about to visit. Unfortunately, Coil is a bit too cautious to have a trap there already. And Jozef is a bit too non proactive to think about giving his therapist or his family protections.