Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

[Alwaysnice2cu]

Why is everyone trying to overcomplicate it ?
Also shards shouldn't be able to emulate the forge.
See:
Coils shard: (data)
Forge: mmmh (bullshit)
Coils shard: thanks have a nice day

].
Doubt it. Really, really doubt it. Otherwise, the scene with Garment wouldn't have happened.

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1/Yes since they shouldn't be able to model garment or coils power could just use something else to emulate garment? Like coils power's are a cheat.

2/ lord roustabout didn't think about it? U know human error?

/////

No more cringe than My/Names/Jeff pronouns.

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It's funny and u know it.
STOP LYING TO YOURSELF!!!

 

[Transreal Cloud]

You know weirdly I think the most useful thing he got here outside of the glove might have been the Flack Jacket.

Because it's a jacket. Core body armor that is fiat backed. like the battleship boots, except unlike that it's one that can be wrapped around his most squishy and vital of meat stuff that lays under his neck.

All he'll need now is some kind of head piece perk and he could be an indestructible walking torso!

Edit: Also Aisha ships Gloveperon. I approve!

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As others have said the first fashion perk makes this redundant. The reason the boots were so special is they counted as a weapon and armor.

The remaining perk in the Clothing Constellation (from "The World Ends with You") is "Fashion nonvictim". It's very similar to the "Fashion" perk got as his first roll, way back in Chapter 2, in that wearing a single piece of armour will protect him as though he was wearing a full suit of armour made from that material, but it has an extra effect: so long as what he tries to wear is "fashionable", he is comfortable wearing it. Even if it's massively the wrong size/shape for him, he can wear it in a way that looks good, and he's perfectly at ease in any weather; t-shirt in a monsoon, speedos in a snowstorm, full black-leather in a heatwave. Again, only if the outfit is "fashionable", but… *gestures at Garment Gloves*

Oh, and it might come with a Free Perk too. Either "Revival" or "Reaperdom", both of which have sub-variants. For example, "Revival" has "Discombobulate"(which is basically a knock-off version of Tattletale's power that only works on people, but not on objects/events), "Hear My Voice" (discount Bad Canary / Jedi Mind Trick plus super-singing abilities), "Keikaku Doori" (gives him the ultra-planning make-it-look-like-an-accident abilities that everyone already thinks he has) or "Mental Fortress" (which makes him immune to mind-reading, and many Master or Stranger effects. So, he would completely no-sell Gallant's blasts, Glory Girl's aura, Cherish, or even Heartbreaker), while "Reaperdom" lets him shift between the real world (RG) and the afterlife (UG) to become invisible & intangible (and use his Player Pin to read people's thoughts), and summon a shadow-duplicate to help himself fight, plus the sub-variants such as creating Noise monsters to fight for him, creating new and more powerful versions of the Entanglement Pin he got with the other TWEwY perk, or the ability to transform into a Noise-based monster form. However, Reaper abilities are powered/charged by death; he gets 1 week of use for every person who dies as a result of his actions. (Technically, the Reaperdom sub-variants are bought with CP, but comes with 200 CP free to spend on them. Whether LR will allow Joe's extra charge to be spendable or not if Reaperdom is rolled is up to him.)

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Lord hasn't clarified what Reaper powers Joe will have but apparently Joe will shift between Reaper and Mental Fortress depending on his mental state.

 

[Random832]

Also, extrapolating a free perk that says "due to complications, Coil can't be blocked" to mean "the passenger/forge favour Coil and will give him free info" seems like a stretch personally.

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I wouldn't really call it "favoring" Coil, rather recognizing that being a complete blank to him, especially from the beginning before Apeiron's own power base was secure, might cause Problems that others wouldn't.

Anyway, regardless of either the reasons or how it's implemented, are you saying the text of a perk does say Coil can't be blocked? which perk is this exactly, I can't find it

 

[AntaeusTheGiant]

Lord hasn't clarified what Reaper powers Joe will have but apparently Joe will shift between Reaper and Mental Fortress depending on his mental state.

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My understanding was that it would depend on his mental state at the time he receives his perk, and it would be based on what would be the normal standards for others with his TWEWY clothing brand (Natural Puppy) and how well he is dealing with his doormat issues. By the way, has he actually made anything that fits into the Natural Puppy stylings? People were really hyped about that when he first got it.....

 

[BarbaCoPut]

Even then how would the PRT look for an interdimensional master effect, they're not meant to work on an interdimensional scale

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Still, Aleph gets the news from Beth, and lots of people in Aleph will have knowledge about Apeiron, I mean, he is big, so now , everyone in Aleph knows the Title, and the PRT knows that, and that's something to get scared of, it guarantees to the PRT that the Ape of Iron has either dimensional technology or at least knowledge of how to build a dimensional bridge (not that he actually does... but... it's a logical conclusion...


[Coil shenanigans]
Beyond the common knowledge that Coil's power doesn't make sense according to the rules that Wildblow set later for the setting, kinda like his power runs by fiat.

I'm thinking that the summit will be when Joe should be able to get "forge-kun" to tell him that Coil is the Undersider's secret boss. They will be together, he is capable of reading a lot of subtext now, even if the real Coil sends a body double, and Joe will know that, the ForgeKun has the best situation to bring the knowledge across the link.


A general thought too, the reason that Joe has been getting more and more introspective, and needing hundreds of words to describe what he thinks, what he observes and notices, its implications, etc, are because of all his intelligence boosts, his genius level improvements, he can't stop his supermind from overanalyzing things. Every smart person I know can't stop analyzing things, if we take this to the ridiculous levels Joe operates its totally logical, heck, one of my personal theories is that smart people have a problem with that (causing some of the behaviours related to Asperger and the like..)

 

[Mojave Courier]

Anyway, regardless of either the reasons or how it's implemented, are you saying the text of a perk does say Coil can't be blocked? which perk is this exactly, I can't find it

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It's the free perk from the Worm Jump.

Outside Context Problem (Free): It'd be boring if you were to just die right at the start so for free
you'll have a selective immunity to the powers of a few rather nasty plot device level opponents
that by all rights would probably want to kill you right out of the gate. Contessa, Ziz, and Zion's
precog doesn't seem to be able to pick you up, instead returning a zero-sum error whenever they
try to force the issue. They won't notice this until you garner enough attention for them to try and
then they might take further measures to see what the problem is. But at the moment you'll be
safe from being instantly killed due to the threat you pose to their plans. This works on all
shard/entity derived precog. Your peculiar inter-dimensional nature just messes up their ability to
predict you. Coil is an exception due to the weird nature of his power.

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[Kris-71854]

I can suddenly see Joe not liking Somer's Rock and needing to fix up the bar. Maybe he could do a bartender routine?

Poor Joe is feeling like group dad. He needs a peer rather than everyone around him being so much younger.

Garment finally gets to clothe the Undersiders. Aww, her first cape group project

I'm curious about the Avid Glove. I have no idea about the source material. I'm just curious if it'll grow into its own character. Will Garment claim it as her personal pet? Or is it basically a third hand for Joe? Is he merely mystically linked to it?

I don't care about everyone knowing his title thing. Oh, he and those there do. I find it odd that all these troublesome mastery powers are the cheapest or almost pure background.

They aren't really remotely important. With all the S class threats that he has to contain in his warehouse, that sort of power is barely noticeable. Well rather noticeable, but everyone can see what it does.

I wonder who else is with Flechette. I'm thinking either Shadow Stalker or Vista. Then again one of the guys could work as well.

Maybe Garment will get to give them both new outfits?

 

[Utterly Depraved]

So. This is Fiat-backed 'You can teach anyone whatever you know.' Good god he is fuuuucked.

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You know I'm sure that he could weaponize this. Aside from literally teaching people a lesson and info-hazards there's really just something preventing people from claiming ignorance that is outright godly.

 

[prussiangrandier]

@LordRoustabout How much of the blessing to archery does Artemis cover?


Does it apply to shooting with your feet? who was historically done all over the world



what about Overdraw devices who very much existed historically and were almost certainly though of by the Greeks?


Would a repeater bow work?



Would crossbow? Would guns?

And to finalize, could Apeiron shoot a giant arrow, then jump on top of it, then ride said arrow to his destination mercenary Tao style?

 

[prussiangrandier]

@LordRoustabout

if joe created the absolute best possible bullet with all the tech that he has could he fire it like this?

and how many bullets could he shoot using his perks o increase their amount

 

[Arimai]

Ohhhhhhh a 500 perk, this is quite the interesting one too. I just wish it was Titan's Blood though.
Also first

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Can't find out what that does. The Google files only list the name and point cost. I don't have the file that explains each perk.

@prussiangrandier please don't post Nu's debunked videos. He tends to mix certain myths as fact in several videos even when they are proven false by experimental archeology experiments

 

[prussiangrandier]

Can't find out what that does. The Google files only list the name and point cost. I don't have the file that explains each perk.

@prussiangrandier please don't post Nu's debunked videos. He tends to mix certain myths as fact in several videos even when they are proven false by experimental archeology experiments

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i can try, but he is unfortunately the only person who made a video on tong-ahs and searching for majra gives you turk tele novellas

 

[Albert]

I feel I should remind people that Apeiron, the Enigmatic Artificer, now has a title, and it's enforced across all known continua, regardless of dimensional boundaries. Without invoking his title, all other references to entities calling themselves 'Apeiron' must be assumed to be about people who are not Apeiron, the Enigmatic Artificer.

(Besides, wouldn't it be a grand bit of humor, to go along with it from now on?)

 

[Asmodemus]

As good a meeting as possible with Tattletale, which is basically this:



It's cute that Rachel noticed he was in pain and connected more when he was cave doggy. Maybe future friendship lead.

But the most adorable part of all was Garment holding Joe's hand and stroking it. True it may be his autonomous disembodied hand with an eye and teeth but it still counts! Now, never let him get it away from you Garment.

Annnnd there goes Joe's promise to not do anything for a couple days. I cannot wait to see the conversation with his therapist.

And of course, more priceless reactions. Alec be on point.

 

[Transreal Cloud]

Can't find out what that does. The Google files only list the name and point cost. I don't have the file that explains each perk.

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I humbly present my reference sheet. Specifically the possible perks tab.

Brockton's Celestial Forge Reference

Possible Perks Domain No. ,Constellation,Place in Domain,Place Overall,Name,Origin Jump,Min Cost,Cluster Cost,All Costs,Chance to Roll (Not counting CP required),Description,Perks available 12,Alchemy Constellation,9,294,Mixing Mixtures,Banjo-Kazooie,200,200,200,1.39%,Your created potions can be...

docs.google.com

 

[.Winged_One.]

Uhhh, theres still a very big issue that I am very looking forward to hearing about...

Zion and the Simurgh just got mastered with a name that could easily be a shard or entities designation... pointing towards brockton bay. They could easily construe this as a new entity announcing itself. Hell cauldron will likely do the same at THIS scale

 

[PrinceOfDoom]

Uhhh, theres still a very big issue that I am very looking forward to hearing about...

Zion and the Simurgh just got mastered with a name that could easily be a shard or entities designation... pointing towards brockton bay. They could easily construe this as a new entity announcing itself. Hell cauldron will likely do the same at THIS scale

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Very true, Ziz. Very true. Going to be fascinating to see how you and Zion react to it.

Heh. Maybe Joe can figure out a way to turn you all into Friendbringers.

But yeah, Zion has already taken notice of the weirdness in Brockton. And Ziz has probably already noticed the precog issues Joe is generating.

Which is going to make Leviathan's attack all the more interesting.

 

[ImperatorV]

Zion probably doesn't know the name Apeiron as of now. Ziz most likely does though, Joe has caused enough waves that she has to be aware of his existence at this point.

So Ziz just learned "Wait, that weird Brockton Bay guy has some kind of effect that's not part of the cycle. And it effects even me."

Joe may be on a time limit. The Simurgh's real job is to protect the cycle - the whole terrorizing people bit is her screwing around because the High Priest shard asked her to. If a situation involving her true purpose comes up, she might break the standard Endbringer operating procedure.

 

[The Shallow]

Also, if you have reached this level of emotions, maybe we should either stop it or at least take a pause.

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Thanks for the advice.

Bullshit level scanning and analysis capabilities. The very main purpose of the Shards is to gather and analize data, after all.
I can easily see them able to decupher effects of Fashion perk from the how the molecles of air interacts with Joe. And they had much more data, just from the fight with Oni Lee alone.
Matter generation also been shown by Garment before the Coil's similation happened. And back then Joe didn't have the anti-clairvoyance curtain for his Workshop, so Shards was able to see that. Maybe they didn't figure out yet that she needs money for it, and similated Garment created everything really ex-nihilo, we have no way to know for sure.

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I understand them being able to see the way things interact with Joe differently, but for them to extrapolate that into Fashion affecting the cloth Garment manifested around him? I have a hard time believing them reaching a hypothesis like "any cloth in contact with Joe will be as tough as iron".

I said that we have WoG that Shards unable to predict Spiral and psionic. That mean they do not receive information from the Forge.
And yes, I believe that they can emulate Joe's Passenger, since they have data of their interactions. Maybe Shards can't emulate them with 100% accuracy due to insufficient amount of data they have. But I doubt that accuracy of similation much below the 99,9%, or Joe would've been immune to precogs already, without the need for perks.

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You know what? this is a fair interpretation. There's too much uncertainty even with Coil's simulations. I am not perfectly convinced, but it makes enough sense.

 

[MaimakteriAnn]

...I guess if Joe, Aisha, or anyone else want smoking red eyes they can get them though

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I find this phrasing so funny. Smoky eyes has such a 'come hither' kinda vibe, so smoking eyes naturally makes me think that. But Sun Wukong's eyes are famously terrifying. More 'come and break your swords against me, mortals'.

 

[Arimai]

I find this phrasing so funny. Smoky eyes has such a 'come hither' kinda vibe, so smoking eyes naturally makes me think that. But Sun Wukong's eyes are famously terrifying. More 'come and break your swords against me, mortals'.

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Ahh, the Monkey King. The Original Mega-Chad. I'm impressed by the Jade Emperor's patience, humor and forbearance that he spared Monkey's life. With all the shite Monkey pulled off, he should've been smote multiple times by Heaven.

 

[TitanFrost]

Why can't you use it to break down living creatures? Breaking down Sun Wukong is the only thing they use it for in journey, and they are surprised and annoyed when it doesn't dissolve him because he is too many kinds of immortal at once. So clearly they expected it to be able to break down a living divinity at least.

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I just had a thought about this.

Joe can build new Alchemy Machines because he has access to the native setting's metaphysics through the perk that gave him the item. But he can't make a machine as good as the perk-granted item because it has fiat-granted versatility in all forms of alchemy.

The Crucible is somewhat the opposite situation. The perk-granted crucible is restricted by fiat to not be able to work on living beings, but Joe has access to the native setting's metaphysics. He theoretically ought to be able to construct a new Crucible that isn't subject to that restriction.

 

[Arimai]

i can try, but he is unfortunately the only person who made a video on tong-ahs and searching for majra gives you turk tele novellas

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This video isn't too bad. But a lot of his other videos are irritating. In several of them he contradicts earlier portions of the video to justify his points. Even those proven false by verified empirical data.

 

[andreykl]

Outside Context Problem (Free):
Contessa, Ziz, and Zion's precog doesn't seem to be able to pick you up, instead returning a zero-sum error whenever they try to force the issue.

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That's actually Very powerful. 'zero-sum error' is an erroneous assumption. Example: assumption that if CEO gets paid more, than everyone else in the company receives less, which might be not true, it's just true most of the time. 'zero-sum error' means that Precog in question made such an assumption and redistributed blame for the 'waves' elsewhere.

So Ziz just learned "Wait, that weird Brockton Bay guy has some kind of effect that's not part of the cycle. And it effects even me."

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By now cycle is full of effects that weren't supposed to be part of the cycle. Like Eidolon. Inner shards weren't supposed to be deployed. Joe's workshop by itself counts as 'not supposed to be part of the cycle'.

The Simurgh's real job is to protect the cycle

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Since primary purpose of the Cycle is to gather [DATA] and refine shards, Simurgh job by definition is also to ensure data gets gathered and so far Apeiron was a treasure trove of data.

Simurgh will act the moment Joe builds/gets a spaceship or violates some other rule like that, but as longs as Joe is somewhat confined and his threat doesn't outweigh the gain, he will be fine. By this point Joe demonstrated several fiat backed, mass-ignoring effects out of his workshop that Simurgh likely observed and she might be considering those as an [ANSWER] which gives Joe a lot of leeway.

Also Joe by himself is not the problem, it's his source of power which Simurgh is unable to track. What the point of hunting host of a 'target' when host is not the 'target'? And some obviously faulty shard or unknown source of power is definitely the target.

P.S. Admittedly, that's human logic. No-imagination shard might target Joe first only then to realize that it was a foolish move, but hopefully Joe's passenger made it clear to shard network that there is a passenger (Or Lisa's shard did).

 

[MagicalAmbitions]

It's funny and u know it.
STOP LYING TO YOURSELF!!!

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... it really isn't. comedy is subjective and all, but.. i think you're the one lying to yourself, bud.

I can suddenly see Joe not liking Somer's Rock and needing to fix up the bar. Maybe he could do a bartender routine?

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I want this to happen so much. This would be awesome.

Why can't you use it to break down living creatures? Breaking down Sun Wukong is the only thing they use it for in journey, and they are surprised and annoyed when it doesn't dissolve him because he is too many kinds of immortal at once. So clearly they expected it to be able to break down a living divinity at least.

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"Why can't you use it to break down living creatures?" proceeds to describe an example of it failing to break down a living creature.