Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

I don't think theres actually any basis for a legal case against Victoria for being a Master. For one, her power is designated as a Shaker effect and not a Master power, and is WoG confirmed by Wildbow to legitimately not be a Master effect - Vicky can't control people with it, and it's incredibly binary. Fear or Awe, and that's it. It doesn't effect how you think, just inflicts one of two emotions on you, and that's about it. It's not even all that overpowering most of the time. It'd be really hard to bring a legal case against her on the basis that its a Master power when her PRT power testing clearly says Shaker on it. And the PRT aren't going to let themselves look like dumbasses by admitting they might be wrong - as evidenced by Joe's entire situation.
 
I don't think theres actually any basis for a legal case against Victoria for being a Master. For one, her power is designated as a Shaker effect and not a Master power, and is WoG confirmed by Wildbow to legitimately not be a Master effect - Vicky can't control people with it, and it's incredibly binary. Fear or Awe, and that's it. It doesn't effect how you think, just inflicts one of two emotions on you, and that's about it. It's not even all that overpowering most of the time. It'd be really hard to bring a legal case against her on the basis that its a Master power when her PRT power testing clearly says Shaker on it. And the PRT aren't going to let themselves look like dumbasses by admitting they might be wrong - as evidenced by Joe's entire situation.
About that…
But here's the thing
Wildbow
1y
Brute forcefield & strength.
Master-shaker aura.
Mover flight.
Notice the master rating combine with shaker
 
Last edited:
I don't think theres actually any basis for a legal case against Victoria for being a Master. For one, her power is designated as a Shaker effect and not a Master power, and is WoG confirmed by Wildbow to legitimately not be a Master effect - Vicky can't control people with it, and it's incredibly binary. Fear or Awe, and that's it. It doesn't effect how you think, just inflicts one of two emotions on you, and that's about it. It's not even all that overpowering most of the time. It'd be really hard to bring a legal case against her on the basis that its a Master power when her PRT power testing clearly says Shaker on it. And the PRT aren't going to let themselves look like dumbasses by admitting they might be wrong - as evidenced by Joe's entire situation.
Its kind of nudging up against how a power that doesnt directly master people could be argued to be conditioning.

if someone has a power that tases people that make the cape angry and makes them taste their favorite food when they make the cape happy it wouldnt be a master effect but it could be seen as an unsafe environment to raise a child in.
 
About that…
But here's the thing

Notice the master rating combine with shaker
There's also this:
This deserves its own section.


Track One - Conversation and notes from after one of the recording sessions. Canary talking to producers. Asking about reception and feedback and stuff, including her power's effects. Which is pretty normal and cool, but...


Track Two - The producers recorded the input from people listening to the various tracks. This is twenty minutes long, and they talk over the feedback from the test audiences. If someone listens to this and gives Canary the benefit of a doubt (which I do) then she had no idea the effects were as strong as they are, or when someone was affected by her power. And the producers did, and they didn't tell her.

 
One thing that seems to have been buried is the idea of Joe healing the people.
Nanite healing doesn't actually deal with this kind of stuff;
21 Closing Moves said:
"It doesn't deal with mental or hormonal effects, does it?" I shook my head. Brian looked to her for clarification. "If you're swimming in adrenaline, cortisol, stress based chemicals they're designed to keep you going through pain and damage. You restore everything to a hundred percent while keeping that mix in your system, it'd be a hell of a trip. Fuck, we didn't even notice."
This naturally extrapolates to your brain releasing "awe" neurochemicals in reaction to certain stimuli because neurons that fire together wire together. Joe has a lot of insight into this shit through his Nature Of Memories knowledge, and maybe if he gets Skills: Medicine that might help, but at best it would be a messy ordeal. Joe would need to be leading his nanites, and again, many obstacles in the endeavor.

EDIT: Joe's last big mental alteration is altering his mind to remember Aisha, and while he's improved a lot, he hasn't had many medical knowledge boosts. Back then he said he wouldn't be comfortable attempting it on anybody else, due to the complexity, and the neurochemistry thing is mostly a lateral step in terms of complexity.

TLDR: even if the PRT allowed, it wouldn't work out.
 
Last edited:
The Gifting to the Snarky (Koraan)
I want to write an omake about Joe apologizing to Amy about the mess caused by their conversation, and gifts her with a smile a box of soap. But I had two problems. I can't think of where they could meet. And Apeiron have full-face mask. So, I decided to write an "aftermath".


The Gifting to the Snarky

"Hi, Amy! You looks positively shining today! Seems like a vacation in PRT did you world of good! Maybe I should try to pretend like I've been Mastered too?"

"No, Dannis. That's not because I spent the two weeks in PRT. That's because of why I'm gonna spend the next two weeks there too." Explained Amy to Clockblocker in disguise. Rather poor disguise, to her opinion – she wouldn't be surprised if half of the Arcadia High at least suspect that Dennis is his civilian identity.

"What? WHY?!" Several voices mixed in a incomprehensible choir, everyone around trying to ask her something or other.

Amy crossed her arms and waited until people calm down. Finally, when everyone stopped talking and started to stare at her curiously, she start the explanation.

"Apeiron came to apologize. About, quote-unquote "the mess caused by our previous conversation". And as an apology he gave me a box of soap."

"And I decided that since PRT will lock me in the screening again anyway, and this gift will end up "lost" just like the last time, I can at least try it." She shook her hair, and silky waves spilled over her shoulders. The soap made by Apeiron was truly magical. She even used it instead of shampoo.

The silence that descended on the school cafeteria was broken by Dennis, who, for some reason in a whisper, asked: "But why did he gift you soap?"

"Because, as he said, Baker's uncle said that's how one may charm someone like me."

Little, almost unnoticeable smile creeps on her face from the confused expressions on the listeners' faces. Amy didn't get it too, until Vicky remembered the book and explained the joke to her. And she has not yet decided how to react to Apeiron, allegorically calling her snarky. Or to Vicky's laughing about it.

--- The End ---

edit:
To my surprise many people cannot recognize the reference. If you don't know the answer: here.
 
Last edited:
I don't think theres actually any basis for a legal case against Victoria for being a Master. For one, her power is designated as a Shaker effect and not a Master power, and is WoG confirmed by Wildbow to legitimately not be a Master effect - Vicky can't control people with it, and it's incredibly binary. Fear or Awe, and that's it. It doesn't effect how you think, just inflicts one of two emotions on you, and that's about it. It's not even all that overpowering most of the time. It'd be really hard to bring a legal case against her on the basis that its a Master power when her PRT power testing clearly says Shaker on it. And the PRT aren't going to let themselves look like dumbasses by admitting they might be wrong - as evidenced by Joe's entire situation.
It still affects the brain. But that isn't the point here.

Since she did do power testing, any issues that arise from wrongly identifying her power is on the PRT, since otherwise people will stop getting tested.

Getting tested allows the PRT to AoE a threat assessment. But at the same time it can be used to legally claim that you got tested by a government department that specialises in powers and they didn't find any issues with your power where it would be a risk o the public.

For example if canary got tested at the PRT, her lawyer would have been able to claim that she got tested and the PRT did not inform them that his client has a master effect with her voice. Or it can negatively affect people.

This only applies if the powers that actually got tested in the event that the person didn't show all their powers.

One of the main things a power test should do is run through things that could cause unintended harm to civilians.
 
Nanite healing doesn't actually deal with this kind of stuff;
IIRC, it can. Just doesn't do it by default. Joe can fix those things with manual control.
Wait, you know it...
Joe would need to be leading his nanites, and again, many obstacles in the endeavor.
That's true, yes.

This only applies if the powers that actually got tested in the event that the person didn't show all their powers.
And PRT can claim that the testing subject intentionally hid the part of their abilities. Good luck proving they're lying.
 
IIRC, it can. Just doesn't do it by default. Joe can fix those things with manual control.
Wait, you know it...
That's true, yes.
I'm saying there's no psuedo-fiat nanite medical tech to save Joe in that regard, and that he doesn't have the knowledge to do it perfectly. Efficiency will help him not overdo it, but again, it would be difficult.
 
Last edited:
And PRT can claim that the testing subject intentionally hid the part of their abilities. Good luck proving they're lying.
That shit is documented, so if the person his what exactly their power can do that's fine. But if for example a person had 2 powers and hid one, that's another thing.

It's the PRT's job to run you through a number of tests biased on the power you listed (or a vague description of it) to identify if it has any effects that can be harmful to civilians or has any lasting effects.

They knew about her fear/love (probably isn't called love) aura. They should have tested its effects when there is prolonged exposure. This can be tested by having her stay in the proximity of a test animal which her aura on full blast or carry a small animal with her for a few days. This should be standard for any aura or AoE powers that can last a long time.

Guru's fog would get similar tests.
 
That shit is documented, so if the person his what exactly their power can do that's fine. But if for example a person had 2 powers and hid one, that's another thing.

It's the PRT's job to run you through a number of tests biased on the power you listed (or a vague description of it) to identify if it has any effects that can be harmful to civilians or has any lasting effects.

They knew about her fear/love (probably isn't called love) aura. They should have tested its effects when there is prolonged exposure. This can be tested by having her stay in the proximity of a test animal which her aura on full blast or carry a small animal with her for a few days. This should be standard for any aura or AoE powers that can last a long time.

Grue's fog would get similar tests.
Well, not like somebody could get that through a FOIA request, although Coil could leak it if he wanted to.
 
Missed a few pages, but I don't think the point is that New Wave is going to be sued (despite Piggot mentioning it) it's more of the hit to New Wave's reputation if his accusations of 'altering brain chemistry' (I'm paraphrasing Joe's words to Weld because I don't have time to look it up right now) become public. Because while fanon probably plays with it a bit too much, it's shown that Vicky does have trouble controlling her aura (or lacks the self-discipline to control it), and people are silly things that often try to add 1 and 1 and get 10 (no binary jokes, please).

After all, the phrase 'altering brain chemistry' is utterly horrifying if presented without context, and people tend to only read headlines and not read details.

While the accusations would never hold up in court, public opinion (even if the whole Pellam Marriage implosion wasn't happening) is likely not going to be on their side, and honestly, there would probably be a push to have GG in the Wards where she can learn to control her power properly.

On another note, I was doing a re-read recently and I re-read the first Weld interlude where he's talking with Lily about how bad the situation in Brockton really was. Even he, as the new guy, wonders if having Panacea around spoiled the city, and how at this point if she hadn't been present they would have already sent in some sort of relief force. I don't know if I missed that interlude my first time through (I started reading this on ffnet, so it's a possibility), or there was some editing afterwards, but I really enjoyed that whole conversation between Weld, Vista, and Flechette.
 
Spoiler-ed for length, and rambling. You have been warned.

So, I've been having some thoughts about plot-lines moving forward, and while some are obviously going to be happening sooner then others, and some will have been changed since they were envisioned and brought up, it's been a while for many. So I figured I'd post what (from my perspective) is coming up in the near to immediate future, and even a possibility for how some of them may have changed.

Starting with the near future, Apeiron is taking a 'break'. Discounting actually sleeping, and obtaining and integrating new perks, this seems like a time focused on three things. First, cracking Bakuda's Master-work encryption and saving her hostages. Second, brainstorming a real PR plan and damage control for revealed and implied capabilities, as well as his negotiation with the PRT (both for the long-term, and to help clean-up the city). Finally, there is meeting with the Undersiders', and through them Coil's agenda.

After recovery we have actually meeting with the PRT (and possibly finally killing the official Master suspicion and starting jolly cooperation in some form or not), and visible efforts to fix the city (dealing with the I-field, Dust lines, Bakuda bomb effects, general rubble, healing the injured/hostages, and finally squishing any gangers stupid enough to stay out and make nuisances of themselves or get in his way when the real 'Dragon' leaves his lair).

Sometime during all this is also when I expect Upper-Crust to make his own move for a meeting. He'd personally be too respectful (and diplomatic) to push while Apeiron is recovering, but he does also have a limited time to be in the city, a dire need, and the experience to know that Apeiron's time is only going to be more limited in the future as people get over the shock of disaster. So I expect 'sooner then later' to be the window for Upper-Crust to make his move. Possibly a little later due to his own distractions repairing the Protectorate force-fields, and giving time for the most dire situation (that being the hostages in the internment camp) to be addressed, but not too much longer then that, and certainly before the emergency situation is fully over and other outside powers have the time and freedom to make their own moves. Following his healing (as regardless of what Joe's Passenger might hint, Upper-Crust's situation truly is shitty, a moments research would prove he's more beneficial guiding the Elite then not, and Joe ultimately is a good guy with a long history of fan-boying appreciating influential Tinkers, so the healing itself is a done-deal in my mind) there may be an offer of recruitment or cooperation. The former is shaky (even for the Elite, working with people with WMD capacity is NOT a light thing, and Upper-Crust does have a responsibility to his own people), but the latter is all but guaranteed. I doubt Joe is up for being recruited, or has the time to really get into large-scale projects or monetization in the immediate future. But. I am curious to see if Upper-Crust would bring up the same motivation (and even Ethos) he had in his own interlude on how Parahumans and especially Tinkers could have impacts on society well beyond the petty games of Cops and Robbers, or more serious and unpredictable disaster scenarios. Joe may have been avoiding thinking too much about space or massive life improvements due to Ziz, but Upper-Crust's own unique take on economics and powers offers a lesser, but just as far-reaching approach. Something to think about, since Joe is now a National/Global concern anyway, and he's already acknowledged his need to have a form of PR control and outreach.

Next we have wrapping up the ABB, and Gang control. March I expect will be gone for a long while even if her shadow lingers in Joe's head like proper trauma, but Bakuda is a different story. She's lost most of her everything (resources, minions, respect, health, etc.), and Joe is going to put his best effort into taking her hostages too, but that still leaves Bakuda herself, and by nature of her specialty she's still quite dangerous (to everyone else). Which makes capturing her a question. Obviously Joe isn't going to let her go (not that her own ego would permit more then temporary flight) nor will he execute her...but will he save her? Her cancer is going to be lethal, and she has caused (and more importantly has the sort of mind to keep causing) more then enough death and destruction to merit her death in the name of public safety. But. Her power is extremely valuable. As things are right now, Joe is probably capable of 'fending off' an EB, but he is not capable of actually killing them (as he has some idea of their true power). And while it seems likely that he will have that ability soon...it is no guarantee, nor is it something the rest of the world can know without also knowing a LOT more about Joe and the Celestial Forge then he'd be willing to share. This is not true for Bakuda. Her more exotic bombs are, right now, capable of putting an EB down for good or neutralizing them if the right one is in the right place at the perfect time. Perhaps even more importantly, her bombs are entirely Parahuman and within the limits of the Cycle - they aren't going to merit the same sort of escalation of force as Joe being able to overpower a Conflict Engine through conventional (that is, 'real' rather then Shard imitated) technology or unknown reality altering effects. And the EB's not escalating (or potentially even letting themselves get destroyed if they are destroyed while operating within their current parameters and without any greater dangers to the Cycle to alter their priorities or restrictions) is a MAJOR thing. Until Joe grows a LOT more, even once he is capable of destroying EB's doing so without catastrophic collateral damage (or oopsie-ing everyone on the planet or the planet itself) will be difficult. Bakuda has the tech to be a deterrent (or even a threat) right now that won't risk tipping the board, and that is potentially worth a lot more then her own life (while simultaneously mitigating her own threat is a lot easier if Joe himself or others like Dragon or Cauldron-via-proxy make effort to control her). But Apeiron and the PRT aren't the only ones looking for Bakuda.

This leads into the next issue/plotline. The other gangs of Brockton are very much active, threatened, and just as much of a blight on society as they were before. The E88 (and through them, the Gesselschaft) are making moves to keep and grow their current power, the Merchant's are victimizing and thriving, Coil is trying to figure out how to game the system and most efficiently abuse children, the Travelers are working for the former and hoping for a cure, and finally Accord is around looking for...something in Joe, though what would suit him best is a Power-modifier to get his homicidal OCD under control. Though that still raises it's own issues. Accord might mean well for the world in general, and his most reflexive violence is a result of his Shard...but not all of it is, and he's had years to be conditioned into ruthless villainy. Really he's a similar moral question as Bakuda, though less extreme in his potential good, past evil, and relationship with Joe. If the morality of Villainy and reformation becomes a point, I sorta expect him, Bakuda, the Travelers, and potentially a few other pseudo-victims like Rune or Merchant disaster triggers to all be a super-plot.

Of course, the local Villain situation is connected to the NON-local one by virtue of power-vacuums. Brockton is already seeing it on a local scale with the destruction of the ABB and Accord moving in, but it isn't too difficult to see other players moving in like the Teeth, Elite, Gesselschaft asserting control of their puppet, or even the S9 (and Mannequin and Jack in particular) swinging by to pay a visit. Which leaves the question of how will they be addressed? The thing is, Joe has the power, current and potential, to fill that power-vacuum. But there are complications to it. First is what to do with the existing players, as none will go willingly, and the E88 at least have the potential to make it a fight. And the city (and Joe) have seen enough fighting. Then there is potential clashing with the PRT/Feds. Some options for Joe (like spreading 'powers' or self-replicating effects) are outright quarantine worthy, while others just risk his currently volatile reputation. And if he does reach an accord with the PRT in the next few days, basically taking over the city himself does a lot to strain that potential fragile relationship. Of course, taking over the city isn't required. Joe ultimately has bigger goals and threats then anything any human organization or individual (barring one) could pose to deal with. But given his heroic personality he's not going to let just anything happen in Brockton either, and incoming groups will have him on their mind. If Joe doesn't have a mess trying to take over the city to fill a power vacuum, he's going to have a mess of criminals filling that vacuum and testing him to see where exactly his lines are. At which point the mess becomes internal, because 'peace' for Joe will only come after making examples (easy), and making what draws his ire clear (hard, because that also means deciding some things he won't interfere with, and some of his concerns, in particular Taylor and Aisha won't want to be so restricted). Of course, there's a third option here that is perhaps the most simple and complicated of all. Pick nothing. Take no territory and make no promises, but destroy all residing Villains and any that dare to intrude. If they are peaceful (whether that metric is by not doing anything illegal, or just by not doing anything Joe considers a worthy crime), then leave them alone. It wouldn't really be taking over the PRT's role or monopoly of force (something they can't just allow) but it also wouldn't mean being a proper 'player' himself. How that could go, and what complications would occur exactly I'm unsure, but the beginning at least would be rocky (either there's a lot of messy fighting after an already nasty mess, or Joe sweeps all opposition without resistance and that's scary in it's own way), and it'd stay that way until it's clear Apeiron has no designs on the city itself, just no intention to let anyone else do anything either. Whatever is picked regarding the gangs, the bones of it are best laid out in the coming PRT meeting and start of Apeiron's public outreach, as all options will heavily influence his relationship with the public.

Which finally, FINALLY, brings us to the more distant plot-points (discounting Cauldron and all things related to them but the EB's, they haven't appeared in story yet so there's no saying squat). We have the incoming migration of C53's looking to find a cure (and I'm not even going to try speculating on them, besides that if Joe does decide to make a real effort, it's probably going to include his power-modifying gear as their physiology is just too variable otherwise, and that may in turn reveal it to the world if other actions don't do so already).

Then we have Dragon and the Slayers. Dragon herself is compelled to maintain pursuit and obey the law, and her threat has been reduced enough that she herself isn't going to change in light of Apeiron's new capabilities. She can't stop pursuit, can't actually threaten him, and doesn't really want to fight him - none of that has changed, nor will it, unless maybe negotiations fall out and the authorities declare Apeiron an enemy, at which point there is nothing stopping her crazy programming from going to extreme lengths to take out Aperion (which could potentially concern a LOT of people). That though, is unlikely considering all the people invested in getting on Joe's good-side now, and his own benevolence. The Slayers on the other hand, have a lot to change them. Apeiron is a much bigger and more dangerous looking fish now then he was when they first made the decision to head to Brockton. But what will they do? It's clear they can't fight him, and they're not stupid enough to try anyway like they might have before, but they are zealots. They're not going to just let things go. The question is, are they going to consider him a threat to be undermined and eliminated (from Dragon's interest, and his own concerning combination of what looks like Mad Scientist behavior and WMD capability). Or are they going to consider him an asset that must be brought to their side at all costs (they do consider themselves to be the 'good guys', they work outside the light as mercs like Joe originally claimed, and he does possess the skills and tech to 'solve' their fears of a free Dragon, as well as to create it if he 'naively' helps her instead). If they oppose him, then they are one more complication in a long list, but if they try to persuade him the Dragon plotline is going to climax shortly - Joe would know basically everything as soon as they get close because Saint's paranoia will keep Ascalon and Dragon-control systems close, while Joe's technopathy is unknown and potent. From there, there would be questions on how exactly to handle the Slayers (only Saint is truly terrible right, and half that is mastering?), how to handle Dragon going forward (both fixing her, working with her, and potentially revealing stuff to her as one of his big heroes and former inspirations), but nothing truly concerning. With Root control and his tech fixing Dragon would be a breeze, while gaining mutual trust is simple if Joe reveals more about himself (in particular his own AI, and his powers which are more potentially devastating then currently thought, but also less so with a good man like Joe then a Mad Scientist tinker with weaker powers but no control) for Dragon, and practically automatic for Joe (he's got a handful of Empathy powers and the ability to actually see inside her code and understand her heroism unlike Saint, which makes trusting her with his own secrets much easier once her shackles are gone).

Finally, we have Uber and Leet. No March to direct and optimize them, no more ABB to support or tie them down, no more 'innocence' of lesser Villainy now that they've already entered the deep end. I've gotta say, I have NO idea what they'll do. Leet was planning on 'showing them all' and making a reality altering piece of tech to change the genre to RPG elements while Uber was converted to a mostly negative influence from his former position of stabilizing neutral...but March is gone, and she's not coming back. While their 'power' is going to drop without the Thinker at the wheel, both of them are too good to just drop back to their former mediocrity - Uber as his power is literally all about skill and Leet who has been forced into being a fairly competent Tinker and now knows the path to success (in Tinkering at least). But what are they going to do? Uber still strikes me as more of a follower then not even if he has been the one encouraging Leet down a darker road. While Leet is the more moral, but also more unstable and plain hungry of the two. He disliked targeting other Parahumans for research (or at least innocent ones) the most, but he's also got more desire for power and recognition. And while he's also willing to settle for not being the best and no longer has March to egg him on...well he's unstable, was already wound up quite a bit, and may take Apeiron's latest stunts as a challenge from his rival and/or allowed superior. This would put them as more long-term foes like March in my mind, who are determined to screw with things, but are also willing to do their build-up outside of Brockton and wait until they are ready, rather then staying close and being a nuisance to crush. Of course, like I said they are unpredictable (and in fact it was thoughts on them and Dragon that prompted this post). What if Leet takes note of the FTL strike on Lung? FTL and most things space-related are strictly regulated by Shards, but Leet's is already unusual in it's behavior and power (I thought it was supposed to be one of the greater Tinker Shards, just heavily suppressed in power?). Is he going to take note of that? Try to go to space himself, or maybe confront the oddity of why space stayed out of his mind until literal FTL was placed in front of his eyes? His whole deal is single-instances of everything, he's had lots of reasons to at least think about more obscure or distanced tech before, and most of all, no small portion of sci-fi is space-based. Even if the resources were beyond his means pre-March, there should have been some day-dreaming and design for space-tech. And yet, there probably wasn't.

To go on a different, perhaps even more crazy thought line, Leet has recently been very riled up by March, obsessed more and more on his trigger due to his new self-reinforcing routine, and has the power to basically do anything once. If he's not too stuck on proving himself against Apeiron (he was already acknowledging him in his own interlude, and that was before the big confrontation that made Joe more impressive, removed March as an influencer, and also cast March in MUCH more sinister light), and he is obsessing more on standing out and sticking it to those he sees as putting him down...why not go to Aleph? There's much less competition, he's one of the handful of people that could actually pull it off (one of anything includes dimensional travel), and there is someone there who has wronged him personally that he's been thinking a lot more about (as opposed to mostly fleeing from like with his previous behaviour). This only really applies if he's not too stuck on the newest project (which he probably is), but it's an interesting thought. Because who could stop him? Even Joe can't follow yet, and Cauldron has no skin in the game to make them interfere. From my understanding Aleph has fewer, generally weaker Capes and a very different (still adapting) system regarding them. Going to Aleph means being a big fish in a smaller pond (which suits his ego), access to his other self (whom he was avoiding thinking about until recently), and a lot of room to grow in a world without cemented Parahuman power-blocks (if one without a lot of the protections those power-blocks provide to keep things a 'game' rather then a constant bloody power-struggle). The only downside is leaving all his detractors on Bett and 'giving up' in his own mind, something Leet's ego doesn't seem willing to concede, especially now that he's started to win. He isn't fully rational after-all, and while he desires recognition above all else and it'd be easier to get that in Aleph...the dumpster-fire that is Bett is filled with monsters and the more challenging world by nature. Perhaps even more prestigious for a Cape to be dominant in as a result of that difficulty in his mind. But while that is definitely the 'Gamer' option, Cecil himself isn't the type to seek difficulty on his own. If his ego and/or Uber aren't pushing him, he takes the easy path. And that means Aleph (at least, if he thinks of it, and doesn't think about how their lack of Cape-history and numbers means they're authorities are probably a lot less gentle when it comes to Villains).
 
Last edited:
Not only. Widely known in fandom community NEPEA-5 is only one of many laws related to parahumans.
For example, kill orders would be absolutely against the law in our world.
1)Citation needed.

2)Kill orders are not particularly different from the old "Wanted Dead or Alive" bounties that used to be posted up in the Wild West against outlaws.
Only real difference is that active criminals can collect on the bounty.
Was it widely known to the public that she's a Master? I genuinely don't remember.
For the counter argument I can give a Gallant - someone who can be named "Master" only barely, yet was disguised as a Tinker for the PR reasons.
So, even if the stigma canonically not as bad as fanon often portraits it, stigma is here, definitely.
1) Yes it was. Part of her branding.

2) Gallant was disguised as a Tinker in part to help further obscure the identity of a Ward; being rich enough to pay for someone else to build and maintain your power armor makes it that much easier to identify the family a Ward came from.
Its the same principle under which some female Wards used to have their uniforms padded to change their bust size.

3) I dont agree. For example?Until she went serial killer, Monokeros/Unicorn IV was a popular corporate hero with multiple corporate sponsorships using a power which was described as, and I quote:
Monokeros can apply her power to a nearby individual she is aware of, with a brief period between each selection. While under the effect of her power, the individual is attacked with an overwhelming (but not irresistible) wave of emotion, typically intense admiration for Monokeros, not unlike Victoria Dallon or other emotion manipulators.[10] Monokeros also becomes immune to anything and everything that individual does, has clairvoyance through their eyes, and can psychometrically observe their history/memories, though this last ability is inaccurate.[11] However, it can ramp up with time.[12]

The protagonist of Worm, Skitter/Weaver was an insect-controlling Master. The protagonist of Ward, Victoria Dallon/Antaeus was rocking a Master/Shaker aura that targeted people.
Master bigotry would have shown up in the narrative if it had ever been a thing.

The concept of Masters being unpopular just isnt supported by the facts as we know them.
To your second point, Canary had a music career until the first time she used a Master power against someone else, we have no information that I'm aware of to say how much of her powers were known by the public, who might have been told she had a Shaker power, for all we know.
1) The PHO Sunday shorts make it abundantly clear that her being an emotion-broadcasting Master was part of her branding.
And that it was legal to do so as long as some boundary was not crossed.

I mean, Canary was a Cauldron cape.
She picked her power to help with her career; she wouldnt have intentionally gone for something that would sabotage it.
 
Last edited:
I don't think so.
Why? Because kill orders that you sees as different point is actually part of that one. Kill orders is a thing, that mean there some law(s) that allow it. That mean there's more laws related to parahumans than just NEPEA-5.
Also, just the existence of PRT, Protectorate and Wards mean there some laws governing their activities.
But if you want, I can look for the quote that kill orders is a thing.

2)Kill orders are not particularly different from the old "Wanted Dead or Alive" bounties that used to be posted up in the Wild West against outlaws.
Indeed. And by the standards of Medieval Europe they have very progressive, liberal and lenient laws.
Well, you caught me. I should've said "in our modern world" or "in our world today".
Anyway, the point was (and is) that you tries to equate their laws and our modern, today laws, and it (imo) can't be equated.

1) Yes it was. Part of her branding.
Thanks, I forgot about that. Though, I'd appreciate a quote, because I can find only link to some reddit page with, I think, PHO roleplay. I don't sure if that's canon or no.
I see that poster is Wildbow. Doesn't mean that can't be a non-canon sidestory, or something.

2) Gallant was disguised as a Tinker in part to help further obscure the identity of a Ward;
Huh. Didn't know that.

Monokeros/Unicorn IV was a popular corporate hero with multiple corporate sponsorships
Now that's a good argument.
I suspect "multiple corporate sponsorships" played a big part here, though. Many money means ability to hire good PR managers and so on.

But the thing is - in the wiki I can find one - One, Carl! - hero (Edict, independant, formerly Protectorate) who is openly a Master whose powers affects humans. Everyone else either hide that they have human Master powers, like Gallant ("No, sire, I'm a Tinker, honest!") or Glory Girl (Shaker yes-yes), or villains (Heartbreaker, Regent, Cherish, Velefor, Mama Mathers, Psychosoma, Minakhm, ...).

The protagonist of Worm, Skitter/Weaver was an insect-controlling Master
The key word here, as I believe, "insect-controlling". There's a bunch of Masters with projections, or those who control animals or objects. And they don't have much problem. Yet those who control/affect humans...

Master bigotry would have shown up in the narrative if it had ever been a thing.

The concept of Masters being unpopular just isnt supported by the facts as we know them.
What about Canary cause, then?

1) The PHO Sunday shorts make it abundantly clear that her being an emotion-broadcasting Master was part of her branding.
Actually, after I read it, I don't see where that was stated. That's happening ("in the story" time) year after the end of the trial. They know now she's a Master, of course. But had they knew before? I don't see anything that can prove the public did (producers - yes, but that doesn't mean they share that info with people).

I mean, Canary was a Cauldron cape.
She picked her power to help with her career; she wouldnt have intentionally gone for something that would sabotage it.
Why not? She wanted the power to help her sing. It may be that she was given about the same formula as Triumph. But instead of expected sound control or something like that, she got her Master power.
Cauldron vials often have side effects.
 
But the thing is - in the wiki I can find one - One, Carl! - hero (Edict, independant, formerly Protectorate) who is openly a Master whose powers affects humans. Everyone else either hide that they have human Master powers, like Gallant ("No, sire, I'm a Tinker, honest!") or Glory Girl (Shaker yes-yes), or villains (Heartbreaker, Regent, Cherish, Velefor, Mama Mathers, Psychosoma, Minakhm, ...).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hallow from the Haven team is a Human Master. His details were given on Worm Quest, with his power given as the ability to return people to what he considered a "normal" state of mind- this comes across at first as an Anti-Master power, except it also works against extreme emotional states, certain mental illnesses, and Homosexuality. Yeah, um.... please lock this guy in a basement. Still technically a hero and a human master, although I didn't find a page for him on the Wiki, and I'm remembering this second-hand so could be wrong, full disclosure.

Edit: also, before anybody cries bullshit, there's no way a power can do that: Amy can and did, to her own sister no less. Causing or removing autism or forcibly changing sexual preferences is a horrifying concept, but yeah, Shards can do that.
 
Last edited:
Maybe, but considering they can't know for certain how many people saw, or what they saw, after the Call Bead was destroyed (and that's just the people who were there (nevermind all the people who might have seen something on the video stream) and the guy who made the tech is in the wind, with no way to find him...
Cauldron might not see a need to offer any assistance...
Wait, I feel like I am missing something. What did Vicky see?
 
Wait, I feel like I am missing something. What did Vicky see?
Back in "Interlude: Glory Girl" (not to be confused with "Interlude: Victoria" or "Interlude: Vicky"), she saw Shardspace, how it relates to Powers, which parts of her powers were budded of which of her family/friends, and both how most powers don't particularly care about their hosts, and how hers does (in part, because it is a "newborn" bud, specifically created for her), so ekes out every advantage that it can give her.

From that brief glance, she probably now knows more about how powers work than anyone, Cauldron included.
 
Last edited:
Spoiler-ed for length, and rambling. You have been warned.

So, I've been having some thoughts about plot-lines moving forward, and while some are obviously going to be happening sooner then others, and some will have been changed since they were envisioned and brought up, it's been a while for many. So I figured I'd post what (from my perspective) is coming up in the near to immediate future, and even a possibility for how some of them may have changed.

Starting with the near future, Apeiron is taking a 'break'. Discounting actually sleeping, and obtaining and integrating new perks, this seems like a time focused on three things. First, cracking Bakuda's Master-work encryption and saving her hostages. Second, brainstorming a real PR plan and damage control for revealed and implied capabilities, as well as his negotiation with the PRT (both for the long-term, and to help clean-up the city). Finally, there is meeting with the Undersiders', and through them Coil's agenda.

After recovery we have actually meeting with the PRT (and possibly finally killing the official Master suspicion and starting jolly cooperation in some form or not), and visible efforts to fix the city (dealing with the I-field, Dust lines, Bakuda bomb effects, general rubble, healing the injured/hostages, and finally squishing any gangers stupid enough to stay out and make nuisances of themselves or get in his way when the real 'Dragon' leaves his lair).

Sometime during all this is also when I expect Upper-Crust to make his own move for a meeting. He'd personally be too respectful (and diplomatic) to push while Apeiron is recovering, but he does also have a limited time to be in the city, a dire need, and the experience to know that Apeiron's time is only going to be more limited in the future as people get over the shock of disaster. So I expect 'sooner then later' to be the window for Upper-Crust to make his move. Possibly a little later due to his own distractions repairing the Protectorate force-fields, and giving time for the most dire situation (that being the hostages in the internment camp) to be addressed, but not too much longer then that, and certainly before the emergency situation is fully over and other outside powers have the time and freedom to make their own moves. Following his healing (as regardless of what Joe's Passenger might hint, Upper-Crust's situation truly is shitty, a moments research would prove he's more beneficial guiding the Elite then not, and Joe ultimately is a good guy with a long history of fan-boying appreciating influential Tinkers, so the healing itself is a done-deal in my mind) there may be an offer of recruitment or cooperation. The former is shaky (even for the Elite, working with people with WMD capacity is NOT a light thing, and Upper-Crust does have a responsibility to his own people), but the latter is all but guaranteed. I doubt Joe is up for being recruited, or has the time to really get into large-scale projects or monetization in the immediate future. But. I am curious to see if Upper-Crust would bring up the same motivation (and even Ethos) he had in his own interlude on how Parahumans and especially Tinkers could have impacts on society well beyond the petty games of Cops and Robbers, or more serious and unpredictable disaster scenarios. Joe may have been avoiding thinking too much about space or massive life improvements due to Ziz, but Upper-Crust's own unique take on economics and powers offers a lesser, but just as far-reaching approach. Something to think about, since Joe is now a National/Global concern anyway, and he's already acknowledged his need to have a form of PR control and outreach.

Next we have wrapping up the ABB, and Gang control. March I expect will be gone for a long while even if her shadow lingers in Joe's head like proper trauma, but Bakuda is a different story. She's lost most of her everything (resources, minions, respect, health, etc.), and Joe is going to put his best effort into taking her hostages too, but that still leaves Bakuda herself, and by nature of her specialty she's still quite dangerous (to everyone else). Which makes capturing her a question. Obviously Joe isn't going to let her go (not that her own ego would permit more then temporary flight) nor will he execute her...but will he save her? Her cancer is going to be lethal, and she has caused (and more importantly has the sort of mind to keep causing) more then enough death and destruction to merit her death in the name of public safety. But. Her power is extremely valuable. As things are right now, Joe is probably capable of 'fending off' an EB, but he is not capable of actually killing them (as he has some idea of their true power). And while it seems likely that he will have that ability soon...it is no guarantee, nor is it something the rest of the world can know without also knowing a LOT more about Joe and the Celestial Forge then he'd be willing to share. This is not true for Bakuda. Her more exotic bombs are, right now, capable of putting an EB down for good or neutralizing them if the right one is in the right place at the perfect time. Perhaps even more importantly, her bombs are entirely Parahuman and within the limits of the Cycle - they aren't going to merit the same sort of escalation of force as Joe being able to overpower a Conflict Engine through conventional (that is, 'real' rather then Shard imitated) technology or unknown reality altering effects. And the EB's not escalating (or potentially even letting themselves get destroyed if they are destroyed while operating within their current parameters and without any greater dangers to the Cycle to alter their priorities or restrictions) is a MAJOR thing. Until Joe grows a LOT more, even once he is capable of destroying EB's doing so without catastrophic collateral damage (or oopsie-ing everyone on the planet or the planet itself) will be difficult. Bakuda has the tech to be a deterrent (or even a threat) right now that won't risk tipping the board, and that is potentially worth a lot more then her own life (while simultaneously mitigating her own threat is a lot easier if Joe himself or others like Dragon or Cauldron-via-proxy make effort to control her). But Apeiron and the PRT aren't the only ones looking for Bakuda.

This leads into the next issue/plotline. The other gangs of Brockton are very much active, threatened, and just as much of a blight on society as they were before. The E88 (and through them, the Gesselschaft) are making moves to keep and grow their current power, the Merchant's are victimizing and thriving, Coil is trying to figure out how to game the system and most efficiently abuse children, the Travelers are working for the former and hoping for a cure, and finally Accord is around looking for...something in Joe, though what would suit him best is a Power-modifier to get his homicidal OCD under control. Though that still raises it's own issues. Accord might mean well for the world in general, and his most reflexive violence is a result of his Shard...but not all of it is, and he's had years to be conditioned into ruthless villainy. Really he's a similar moral question as Bakuda, though less extreme in his potential good, past evil, and relationship with Joe. If the morality of Villainy and reformation becomes a point, I sorta expect him, Bakuda, the Travelers, and potentially a few other pseudo-victims like Rune or Merchant disaster triggers to all be a super-plot.

Of course, the local Villain situation is connected to the NON-local one by virtue of power-vacuums. Brockton is already seeing it on a local scale with the destruction of the ABB and Accord moving in, but it isn't too difficult to see other players moving in like the Teeth, Elite, Gesselschaft asserting control of their puppet, or even the S9 (and Mannequin and Jack in particular) swinging by to pay a visit. Which leaves the question of how will they be addressed? The thing is, Joe has the power, current and potential, to fill that power-vacuum. But there are complications to it. First is what to do with the existing players, as none will go willingly, and the E88 at least have the potential to make it a fight. And the city (and Joe) have seen enough fighting. Then there is potential clashing with the PRT/Feds. Some options for Joe (like spreading 'powers' or self-replicating effects) are outright quarantine worthy, while others just risk his currently volatile reputation. And if he does reach an accord with the PRT in the next few days, basically taking over the city himself does a lot to strain that potential fragile relationship. Of course, taking over the city isn't required. Joe ultimately has bigger goals and threats then anything any human organization or individual (barring one) could pose to deal with. But given his heroic personality he's not going to let just anything happen in Brockton either, and incoming groups will have him on their mind. If Joe doesn't have a mess trying to take over the city to fill a power vacuum, he's going to have a mess of criminals filling that vacuum and testing him to see where exactly his lines are. At which point the mess becomes internal, because 'peace' for Joe will only come after making examples (easy), and making what draws his ire clear (hard, because that also means deciding some things he won't interfere with, and some of his concerns, in particular Taylor and Aisha won't want to be so restricted). Of course, there's a third option here that is perhaps the most simple and complicated of all. Pick nothing. Take no territory and make no promises, but destroy all residing Villains and any that dare to intrude. If they are peaceful (whether that metric is by not doing anything illegal, or just by not doing anything Joe considers a worthy crime), then leave them alone. It wouldn't really be taking over the PRT's role or monopoly of force (something they can't just allow) but it also wouldn't mean being a proper 'player' himself. How that could go, and what complications would occur exactly I'm unsure, but the beginning at least would be rocky (either there's a lot of messy fighting after an already nasty mess, or Joe sweeps all opposition without resistance and that's scary in it's own way), and it'd stay that way until it's clear Apeiron has no designs on the city itself, just no intention to let anyone else do anything either. Whatever is picked regarding the gangs, the bones of it are best laid out in the coming PRT meeting and start of Apeiron's public outreach, as all options will heavily influence his relationship with the public.

Which finally, FINALLY, brings us to the more distant plot-points (discounting Cauldron and all things related to them but the EB's, they haven't appeared in story yet so there's no saying squat). We have the incoming migration of C53's looking to find a cure (and I'm not even going to try speculating on them, besides that if Joe does decide to make a real effort, it's probably going to include his power-modifying gear as their physiology is just too variable otherwise, and that may in turn reveal it to the world if other actions don't do so already).

Then we have Dragon and the Slayers. Dragon herself is compelled to maintain pursuit and obey the law, and her threat has been reduced enough that she herself isn't going to change in light of Apeiron's new capabilities. She can't stop pursuit, can't actually threaten him, and doesn't really want to fight him - none of that has changed, nor will it, unless maybe negotiations fall out and the authorities declare Apeiron an enemy, at which point there is nothing stopping her crazy programming from going to extreme lengths to take out Aperion (which could potentially concern a LOT of people). That though, is unlikely considering all the people invested in getting on Joe's good-side now, and his own benevolence. The Slayers on the other hand, have a lot to change them. Apeiron is a much bigger and more dangerous looking fish now then he was when they first made the decision to head to Brockton. But what will they do? It's clear they can't fight him, and they're not stupid enough to try anyway like they might have before, but they are zealots. They're not going to just let things go. The question is, are they going to consider him a threat to be undermined and eliminated (from Dragon's interest, and his own concerning combination of what looks like Mad Scientist behavior and WMD capability). Or are they going to consider him an asset that must be brought to their side at all costs (they do consider themselves to be the 'good guys', they work outside the light as mercs like Joe originally claimed, and he does possess the skills and tech to 'solve' their fears of a free Dragon, as well as to create it if he 'naively' helps her instead). If they oppose him, then they are one more complication in a long list, but if they try to persuade him the Dragon plotline is going to climax shortly - Joe would know basically everything as soon as they get close because Saint's paranoia will keep Ascalon and Dragon-control systems close, while Joe's technopathy is unknown and potent. From there, there would be questions on how exactly to handle the Slayers (only Saint is truly terrible right, and half that is mastering?), how to handle Dragon going forward (both fixing her, working with her, and potentially revealing stuff to her as one of his big heroes and former inspirations), but nothing truly concerning. With Root control and his tech fixing Dragon would be a breeze, while gaining mutual trust is simple if Joe reveals more about himself (in particular his own AI, and his powers which are more potentially devastating then currently thought, but also less so with a good man like Joe then a Mad Scientist tinker with weaker powers but no control) for Dragon, and practically automatic for Joe (he's got a handful of Empathy powers and the ability to actually see inside her code and understand her heroism unlike Saint, which makes trusting her with his own secrets much easier once her shackles are gone).

Finally, we have Uber and Leet. No March to direct and optimize them, no more ABB to support or tie them down, no more 'innocence' of lesser Villainy now that they've already entered the deep end. I've gotta say, I have NO idea what they'll do. Leet was planning on 'showing them all' and making a reality altering piece of tech to change the genre to RPG elements while Uber was converted to a mostly negative influence from his former position of stabilizing neutral...but March is gone, and she's not coming back. While their 'power' is going to drop without the Thinker at the wheel, both of them are too good to just drop back to their former mediocrity - Uber as his power is literally all about skill and Leet who has been forced into being a fairly competent Tinker and now knows the path to success (in Tinkering at least). But what are they going to do? Uber still strikes me as more of a follower then not even if he has been the one encouraging Leet down a darker road. While Leet is the more moral, but also more unstable and plain hungry of the two. He disliked targeting other Parahumans for research (or at least innocent ones) the most, but he's also got more desire for power and recognition. And while he's also willing to settle for not being the best and no longer has March to egg him on...well he's unstable, was already wound up quite a bit, and may take Apeiron's latest stunts as a challenge from his rival and/or allowed superior. This would put them as more long-term foes like March in my mind, who are determined to screw with things, but are also willing to do their build-up outside of Brockton and wait until they are ready, rather then staying close and being a nuisance to crush. Of course, like I said they are unpredictable (and in fact it was thoughts on them and Dragon that prompted this post). What if Leet takes note of the FTL strike on Lung? FTL and most things space-related are strictly regulated by Shards, but Leet's is already unusual in it's behavior and power (I thought it was supposed to be one of the greater Tinker Shards, just heavily suppressed in power?). Is he going to take note of that? Try to go to space himself, or maybe confront the oddity of why space stayed out of his mind until literal FTL was placed in front of his eyes? His whole deal is single-instances of everything, he's had lots of reasons to at least think about more obscure or distanced tech before, and most of all, no small portion of sci-fi is space-based. Even if the resources were beyond his means pre-March, there should have been some day-dreaming and design for space-tech. And yet, there probably wasn't.

To go on a different, perhaps even more crazy thought line, Leet has recently been very riled up by March, obsessed more and more on his trigger due to his new self-reinforcing routine, and has the power to basically do anything once. If he's not too stuck on proving himself against Apeiron (he was already acknowledging him in his own interlude, and that was before the big confrontation that made Joe more impressive, removed March as an influencer, and also cast March in MUCH more sinister light), and he is obsessing more on standing out and sticking it to those he sees as putting him down...why not go to Aleph? There's much less competition, he's one of the handful of people that could actually pull it off (one of anything includes dimensional travel), and there is someone there who has wronged him personally that he's been thinking a lot more about (as opposed to mostly fleeing from like with his previous behaviour). This only really applies if he's not too stuck on the newest project (which he probably is), but it's an interesting thought. Because who could stop him? Even Joe can't follow yet, and Cauldron has no skin in the game to make them interfere. From my understanding Aleph has fewer, generally weaker Capes and a very different (still adapting) system regarding them. Going to Aleph means being a big fish in a smaller pond (which suits his ego), access to his other self (whom he was avoiding thinking about until recently), and a lot of room to grow in a world without cemented Parahuman power-blocks (if one without a lot of the protections those power-blocks provide to keep things a 'game' rather then a constant bloody power-struggle). The only downside is leaving all his detractors on Bett and 'giving up' in his own mind, something Leet's ego doesn't seem willing to concede, especially now that he's started to win. He isn't fully rational after-all, and while he desires recognition above all else and it'd be easier to get that in Aleph...the dumpster-fire that is Bett is filled with monsters and the more challenging world by nature. Perhaps even more prestigious for a Cape to be dominant in as a result of that difficulty in his mind. But while that is definitely the 'Gamer' option, Cecil himself isn't the type to seek difficulty on his own. If his ego and/or Uber aren't pushing him, he takes the easy path. And that means Aleph (at least, if he thinks of it, and doesn't think about how their lack of Cape-history and numbers means they're authorities are probably a lot less gentle when it comes to Villains).
Joe actually has many ways to kill an Endbringer, even right now. It's just about the causalities that would come from it, plus his thinker power is telling him not to kill Endbringers. Bakuda isn't actually that useful anymore, because Joe doesn't want to kill an Endbringer yet.
 
No legal precedent has been set. Citation:

Case hasnt even gone to court yet.

That actually is good for canary, the case will be under a lot more scrutiny, the record labels now depend on canary being freed, as are many people with a lot of money. If the excesses against canary were discovered, any lawyer could get her freed, which is probably going to happen now that the case is of major importance and involves several secondary and tertiary suits with over half a dozen parties.

If what they say is truth, then every venue canary performed at has some level of legal responsibility, as does any restaurant and night business in a range of miles from the concert as it is a know fact those profit more after big concerts, it will not stick, but It might to be enough for them to get lawyers on the phone if they didn't already.

Canary's verdict has likely more impact on more cases than a judge with 20 years of work being disbarred by corruption

Edit: heck with this argument every add in the way back home is liable of taking advantage of someone who's been mastered, Coca-Cola may have responsibilities to those people because of an outdoor, that's how far the rabbit hole goes, again it's obviously impossible to get them convicted of, but the sheer amount of people seeking legal council alone in going to affect the case in some tangential way
 
Last edited:
Back
Top