Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

Ok so Joe, once he gets Equivalent Exchange, might be able to create Withers, yes? With his perks affecting them, and handcrafted, divine, all that good stuff?

Okay so let's say he makes a few really stronk Withers. That's good and all, but... I mean... he can do better. Should he? No. But he can, and isn't that reason enough?

Joe has Chimerical knowledge, yes? And the result is superior to either individual creature? Okay, so what's the absolute most ridiculously horrifying thing Joe could create by combining Withers with some other creature? Think big. Think deadly. Think one of the worst horrors humanity faces.

Actually forget the big part. The answer is mosquitos. Why? Taylor, that's why, you son of a-

ahem.

Army of giant, godlike incarnations of entropy born on buzzing wings, coordinated by one of the cruelest things imaginable - the mind of a teenage girl. Picture it, you callow imbeciles. Picture it and weep, knowing your doom is-

Sorry. In short: big scary bugs for Taylor.
 
I'm going to caution against breaking up posts into too many chunks.
The mods will occasionally come down on people for spaggheti posting, and when you start getting into three or more chunks, you start being at risk of being infracted.

Just an FYI.
Why? Because kill orders that you sees as different point is actually part of that one. Kill orders is a thing, that mean there some law(s) that allow it. That mean there's more laws related to parahumans than just NEPEA-5.
Also, just the existence of PRT, Protectorate and Wards mean there some laws governing their activities.
But if you want, I can look for the quote that kill orders is a thing.
Indeed. And by the standards of Medieval Europe they have very progressive, liberal and lenient laws.
Well, you caught me. I should've said "in our modern world" or "in our world today".
Anyway, the point was (and is) that you tries to equate their laws and our modern, today laws, and it (imo) can't be equated.
Thanks, I forgot about that. Though, I'd appreciate a quote, because I can find only link to some reddit page with, I think, PHO roleplay. I don't sure if that's canon or no.
I see that poster is Wildbow. Doesn't mean that can't be a non-canon sidestory, or something.
Huh. Didn't know that.
1) Note that a kill order is issued after an abbreviated trial in absentia.
There are both judges involved as well as politicians and elements of the regional law enforcement apparatus.
Its not a case of getting slapped with a death note by a faceless bureaucrat.

2) Consider how certain US police forces *cough* LAPD *cough* treat alleged copkillers, like during the Chris Dorner manhunt. Or how the European secret services prosecuted the various terror groups in Europe. Then come back and tell me that there is all that much difference between how kill orders are implemented in Worm and how RL treats particular categories of criminals.

The only major difference is that Worm opens the field to everyone, including wanted criminals, instead of keeping such manhunts inhouse.

3) The reddit page is by Wildbow. You can assume its canon; thats part of the assumption behind the PHO Sundays shorts.

4) Remember, Wards are teenagers who go to school with lots of other teenagers for over a third of the day.
Thats a very small pool of people in which to hide anomalous behavior.

The Youth Guard guidelines for Ward uniforms outright suggests that some female Wards have been outed because their classmates were able to correlate their adolescent breast growth in their civilian identity to their Ward identity. And I wont be surprised if it happened to male Wards who suddenly had growth spurts.
Now that's a good argument.
I suspect "multiple corporate sponsorships" played a big part here, though. Many money means ability to hire good PR managers and so on.

But the thing is - in the wiki I can find one - One, Carl! - hero (Edict, independant, formerly Protectorate) who is openly a Master whose powers affects humans. Everyone else either hide that they have human Master powers, like Gallant ("No, sire, I'm a Tinker, honest!") or Glory Girl (Shaker yes-yes), or villains (Heartbreaker, Regent, Cherish, Velefor, Mama Mathers, Psychosoma, Minakhm, ...).
The key word here, as I believe, "insect-controlling". There's a bunch of Masters with projections, or those who control animals or objects. And they don't have much problem. Yet those who control/affect humans...
What about Canary cause, then?
Actually, after I read it, I don't see where that was stated. That's happening ("in the story" time) year after the end of the trial. They know now she's a Master, of course. But had they knew before? I don't see anything that can prove the public did (producers - yes, but that doesn't mean they share that info with people).
Why not? She wanted the power to help her sing. It may be that she was given about the same formula as Triumph. But instead of expected sound control or something like that, she got her Master power.
Cauldron vials often have side effects.
1)Popularity is earned; its not something that a new cape automatically comes with.
The fact that she was afforded the opportunity to become popular as a corporate cape points at the fact that the literal power of being able to force someone to like you and read the persons mind was not considered a PR problem.

2)There is no citation in Worm that human-affecting Masters suffer any particular form of prejudice.

Villains suffer prejudice for being villains and using their powers in a villainous manner. The existence of the Siberian did not put all projection-using Masters at a disadvantage; the existence of Shatterbird did not prevent Cinereal being extremely popular in Atlanta. Gallant does not worry about Master discrimination in his Interlude, nor does Vista fret about it on his behalf in her own Interlude.

If you're not being Heartbreaker, there is no evidence I am aware of that you need to worry about being impugned for having a human-affecting Master power.

3) Canary was responsible for causing her ex to cut his dick off.
Prior to that she was a moderately successful recording artist who published music and had live concerts without a problem.
Interlude 6 said:
"I mean, I'm not even a supervillain. My power, it makes me a fantastic singer. I was making a lot of money doing it, there was talk of record deals, we were moving to larger venues and my shows were still selling out… everything was perfect."
The exact sentence she got might have been a miscarriage of justice, but the fact that she went to jail for causing grave bodily harm to someone else by negligent use of her power was not.

4) See the fact that she had an ex-boyfriend that she was having problems with.
And consider the likelihood she'd be able to keep a literal Master power secret in the middle of an acrimonious breakup.
Furthermore, at her sentencing, the judge explicitly says she demonstrated her powers in 2009, and does not suggest she tried to hide them.

5)We have a Canary Interlude.
Nowhere do we have her mentally complaining about her power not being what she'd tried to get.
You know, like someone who got screwed over by a vial would.
 
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Joe actually has many ways to kill an Endbringer, even right now. It's just about the causalities that would come from it, plus his thinker power is telling him not to kill Endbringers. Bakuda isn't actually that useful anymore, because Joe doesn't want to kill an Endbringer yet.
From what I remember, Joe has one way to possibly kill an EB right now, and a few more with the kind of resources and build that would take even him some time. That way is Vortex munitions, and while his Shard thinks it might by-pass EB spatial-warping durability, neither know for sure. They don't even know what a Vortex round will really look-like, since Joe quite understandably won't test them. A powerful enough conventional strike could also do the trick, and an FTL weapon could be scaled up enough...but these EB's are medium cheese as I understand. Not the stupidly large amount of compressed mass for their armor/core as a literal galaxy, but certainly at least a gas giant. Any conventional strike that can crack them would also destroy the planet. Similarly, while the highest level of spatial warping/destruction weapons punch through EBs, not all kinds do. March and Flechette are NOT the norm even among devastator capes and Joe himself is only really starting warping technology with Macross fold-tech and Cybertronium.

Finally, we have magical and conceptual methods. The means for both currently exist...but they also aren't applicable. Joe's best current magic, Elven Enchantment/Singing, could probably do the job with a purpose-made weapon, but the highest level of it's use is beyond Joe's current magical stamina and skill. On a similar note, Spiral Energy could absolutely punch right through an EB with enough juice behind it, but getting to that level takes a specific mind-set and practice that Joe just does not have yet.

So what do we ultimately have? Vortex weapons from 40k - dangerous, unwieldy, and ultimately a lot less strategically destructive then other options without Daemons waiting to pore through any holes in reality. But they've never actually been tested, Joe has no experience with EB 'durability' to be sure they'd get sucked into a portal and not just get stuck and/or slowly drain, and unless the initial Vortex perfectly gets the Core (a small target in a Big EB body that he doesn't know about), there's nothing stopping them from immediately cutting loose and going all out (no Manton or other limits) on whatever threatened them and/or the Cycle with prohibited technology (Leviathan for example could potentially insta-kill him if his blood still counts as mostly water for whatever systems it uses, as could Ziz with strong internal TK, Behemoth though is probably out of luck on that front between armor and Joe's own dominion over his personal energy/heat). He could kill an EB right now. Maybe. But only realistically if they keep holding back, if they interact with a completely different franchises technology the way his Shard (the one with fan + canon knowledge, not details) expects, and if he's lucky enough to hit the Core before the alien super-computer can react.

Those are not very good odds. You are right though that currently he would want no EBs dead by anyone's hands, as that would wake more, except for maybe Ziz (who is also the hardest to get with a cheap-shot like Vortex weapons or Bakuda bombs). But Bakuda's weaponry does still serve as a potential deterrent that will not set off any potential Cycle-threat counter-measures, and whose expendable nature means there will be no issues with Tinker maintenance. And even beyond the EBs, there are plenty of other S-class threats that could be neatly eliminated with a drone and an exotic-effect pay-load. Bakuda can never be free, but she can still be useful. The only question is if she'd be useful enough, and if Joe would be fine with letting others have access to her weapons (which can still potentially threaten him).
 
Spoiler-ed for length, and rambling. You have been warned.

So, I've been having some thoughts about plot-lines moving forward, and while some are obviously going to be happening sooner then others, and some will have been changed since they were envisioned and brought up, it's been a while for many. So I figured I'd post what (from my perspective) is coming up in the near to immediate future, and even a possibility for how some of them may have changed.

Starting with the near future, Apeiron is taking a 'break'. Discounting actually sleeping, and obtaining and integrating new perks, this seems like a time focused on three things. First, cracking Bakuda's Master-work encryption and saving her hostages. Second, brainstorming a real PR plan and damage control for revealed and implied capabilities, as well as his negotiation with the PRT (both for the long-term, and to help clean-up the city). Finally, there is meeting with the Undersiders', and through them Coil's agenda.

After recovery we have actually meeting with the PRT (and possibly finally killing the official Master suspicion and starting jolly cooperation in some form or not), and visible efforts to fix the city (dealing with the I-field, Dust lines, Bakuda bomb effects, general rubble, healing the injured/hostages, and finally squishing any gangers stupid enough to stay out and make nuisances of themselves or get in his way when the real 'Dragon' leaves his lair).

Sometime during all this is also when I expect Upper-Crust to make his own move for a meeting. He'd personally be too respectful (and diplomatic) to push while Apeiron is recovering, but he does also have a limited time to be in the city, a dire need, and the experience to know that Apeiron's time is only going to be more limited in the future as people get over the shock of disaster. So I expect 'sooner then later' to be the window for Upper-Crust to make his move. Possibly a little later due to his own distractions repairing the Protectorate force-fields, and giving time for the most dire situation (that being the hostages in the internment camp) to be addressed, but not too much longer then that, and certainly before the emergency situation is fully over and other outside powers have the time and freedom to make their own moves. Following his healing (as regardless of what Joe's Passenger might hint, Upper-Crust's situation truly is shitty, a moments research would prove he's more beneficial guiding the Elite then not, and Joe ultimately is a good guy with a long history of fan-boying appreciating influential Tinkers, so the healing itself is a done-deal in my mind) there may be an offer of recruitment or cooperation. The former is shaky (even for the Elite, working with people with WMD capacity is NOT a light thing, and Upper-Crust does have a responsibility to his own people), but the latter is all but guaranteed. I doubt Joe is up for being recruited, or has the time to really get into large-scale projects or monetization in the immediate future. But. I am curious to see if Upper-Crust would bring up the same motivation (and even Ethos) he had in his own interlude on how Parahumans and especially Tinkers could have impacts on society well beyond the petty games of Cops and Robbers, or more serious and unpredictable disaster scenarios. Joe may have been avoiding thinking too much about space or massive life improvements due to Ziz, but Upper-Crust's own unique take on economics and powers offers a lesser, but just as far-reaching approach. Something to think about, since Joe is now a National/Global concern anyway, and he's already acknowledged his need to have a form of PR control and outreach.

Next we have wrapping up the ABB, and Gang control. March I expect will be gone for a long while even if her shadow lingers in Joe's head like proper trauma, but Bakuda is a different story. She's lost most of her everything (resources, minions, respect, health, etc.), and Joe is going to put his best effort into taking her hostages too, but that still leaves Bakuda herself, and by nature of her specialty she's still quite dangerous (to everyone else). Which makes capturing her a question. Obviously Joe isn't going to let her go (not that her own ego would permit more then temporary flight) nor will he execute her...but will he save her? Her cancer is going to be lethal, and she has caused (and more importantly has the sort of mind to keep causing) more then enough death and destruction to merit her death in the name of public safety. But. Her power is extremely valuable. As things are right now, Joe is probably capable of 'fending off' an EB, but he is not capable of actually killing them (as he has some idea of their true power). And while it seems likely that he will have that ability soon...it is no guarantee, nor is it something the rest of the world can know without also knowing a LOT more about Joe and the Celestial Forge then he'd be willing to share. This is not true for Bakuda. Her more exotic bombs are, right now, capable of putting an EB down for good or neutralizing them if the right one is in the right place at the perfect time. Perhaps even more importantly, her bombs are entirely Parahuman and within the limits of the Cycle - they aren't going to merit the same sort of escalation of force as Joe being able to overpower a Conflict Engine through conventional (that is, 'real' rather then Shard imitated) technology or unknown reality altering effects. And the EB's not escalating (or potentially even letting themselves get destroyed if they are destroyed while operating within their current parameters and without any greater dangers to the Cycle to alter their priorities or restrictions) is a MAJOR thing. Until Joe grows a LOT more, even once he is capable of destroying EB's doing so without catastrophic collateral damage (or oopsie-ing everyone on the planet or the planet itself) will be difficult. Bakuda has the tech to be a deterrent (or even a threat) right now that won't risk tipping the board, and that is potentially worth a lot more then her own life (while simultaneously mitigating her own threat is a lot easier if Joe himself or others like Dragon or Cauldron-via-proxy make effort to control her). But Apeiron and the PRT aren't the only ones looking for Bakuda.

This leads into the next issue/plotline. The other gangs of Brockton are very much active, threatened, and just as much of a blight on society as they were before. The E88 (and through them, the Gesselschaft) are making moves to keep and grow their current power, the Merchant's are victimizing and thriving, Coil is trying to figure out how to game the system and most efficiently abuse children, the Travelers are working for the former and hoping for a cure, and finally Accord is around looking for...something in Joe, though what would suit him best is a Power-modifier to get his homicidal OCD under control. Though that still raises it's own issues. Accord might mean well for the world in general, and his most reflexive violence is a result of his Shard...but not all of it is, and he's had years to be conditioned into ruthless villainy. Really he's a similar moral question as Bakuda, though less extreme in his potential good, past evil, and relationship with Joe. If the morality of Villainy and reformation becomes a point, I sorta expect him, Bakuda, the Travelers, and potentially a few other pseudo-victims like Rune or Merchant disaster triggers to all be a super-plot.

Of course, the local Villain situation is connected to the NON-local one by virtue of power-vacuums. Brockton is already seeing it on a local scale with the destruction of the ABB and Accord moving in, but it isn't too difficult to see other players moving in like the Teeth, Elite, Gesselschaft asserting control of their puppet, or even the S9 (and Mannequin and Jack in particular) swinging by to pay a visit. Which leaves the question of how will they be addressed? The thing is, Joe has the power, current and potential, to fill that power-vacuum. But there are complications to it. First is what to do with the existing players, as none will go willingly, and the E88 at least have the potential to make it a fight. And the city (and Joe) have seen enough fighting. Then there is potential clashing with the PRT/Feds. Some options for Joe (like spreading 'powers' or self-replicating effects) are outright quarantine worthy, while others just risk his currently volatile reputation. And if he does reach an accord with the PRT in the next few days, basically taking over the city himself does a lot to strain that potential fragile relationship. Of course, taking over the city isn't required. Joe ultimately has bigger goals and threats then anything any human organization or individual (barring one) could pose to deal with. But given his heroic personality he's not going to let just anything happen in Brockton either, and incoming groups will have him on their mind. If Joe doesn't have a mess trying to take over the city to fill a power vacuum, he's going to have a mess of criminals filling that vacuum and testing him to see where exactly his lines are. At which point the mess becomes internal, because 'peace' for Joe will only come after making examples (easy), and making what draws his ire clear (hard, because that also means deciding some things he won't interfere with, and some of his concerns, in particular Taylor and Aisha won't want to be so restricted). Of course, there's a third option here that is perhaps the most simple and complicated of all. Pick nothing. Take no territory and make no promises, but destroy all residing Villains and any that dare to intrude. If they are peaceful (whether that metric is by not doing anything illegal, or just by not doing anything Joe considers a worthy crime), then leave them alone. It wouldn't really be taking over the PRT's role or monopoly of force (something they can't just allow) but it also wouldn't mean being a proper 'player' himself. How that could go, and what complications would occur exactly I'm unsure, but the beginning at least would be rocky (either there's a lot of messy fighting after an already nasty mess, or Joe sweeps all opposition without resistance and that's scary in it's own way), and it'd stay that way until it's clear Apeiron has no designs on the city itself, just no intention to let anyone else do anything either. Whatever is picked regarding the gangs, the bones of it are best laid out in the coming PRT meeting and start of Apeiron's public outreach, as all options will heavily influence his relationship with the public.

Which finally, FINALLY, brings us to the more distant plot-points (discounting Cauldron and all things related to them but the EB's, they haven't appeared in story yet so there's no saying squat). We have the incoming migration of C53's looking to find a cure (and I'm not even going to try speculating on them, besides that if Joe does decide to make a real effort, it's probably going to include his power-modifying gear as their physiology is just too variable otherwise, and that may in turn reveal it to the world if other actions don't do so already).

Then we have Dragon and the Slayers. Dragon herself is compelled to maintain pursuit and obey the law, and her threat has been reduced enough that she herself isn't going to change in light of Apeiron's new capabilities. She can't stop pursuit, can't actually threaten him, and doesn't really want to fight him - none of that has changed, nor will it, unless maybe negotiations fall out and the authorities declare Apeiron an enemy, at which point there is nothing stopping her crazy programming from going to extreme lengths to take out Aperion (which could potentially concern a LOT of people). That though, is unlikely considering all the people invested in getting on Joe's good-side now, and his own benevolence. The Slayers on the other hand, have a lot to change them. Apeiron is a much bigger and more dangerous looking fish now then he was when they first made the decision to head to Brockton. But what will they do? It's clear they can't fight him, and they're not stupid enough to try anyway like they might have before, but they are zealots. They're not going to just let things go. The question is, are they going to consider him a threat to be undermined and eliminated (from Dragon's interest, and his own concerning combination of what looks like Mad Scientist behavior and WMD capability). Or are they going to consider him an asset that must be brought to their side at all costs (they do consider themselves to be the 'good guys', they work outside the light as mercs like Joe originally claimed, and he does possess the skills and tech to 'solve' their fears of a free Dragon, as well as to create it if he 'naively' helps her instead). If they oppose him, then they are one more complication in a long list, but if they try to persuade him the Dragon plotline is going to climax shortly - Joe would know basically everything as soon as they get close because Saint's paranoia will keep Ascalon and Dragon-control systems close, while Joe's technopathy is unknown and potent. From there, there would be questions on how exactly to handle the Slayers (only Saint is truly terrible right, and half that is mastering?), how to handle Dragon going forward (both fixing her, working with her, and potentially revealing stuff to her as one of his big heroes and former inspirations), but nothing truly concerning. With Root control and his tech fixing Dragon would be a breeze, while gaining mutual trust is simple if Joe reveals more about himself (in particular his own AI, and his powers which are more potentially devastating then currently thought, but also less so with a good man like Joe then a Mad Scientist tinker with weaker powers but no control) for Dragon, and practically automatic for Joe (he's got a handful of Empathy powers and the ability to actually see inside her code and understand her heroism unlike Saint, which makes trusting her with his own secrets much easier once her shackles are gone).

Finally, we have Uber and Leet. No March to direct and optimize them, no more ABB to support or tie them down, no more 'innocence' of lesser Villainy now that they've already entered the deep end. I've gotta say, I have NO idea what they'll do. Leet was planning on 'showing them all' and making a reality altering piece of tech to change the genre to RPG elements while Uber was converted to a mostly negative influence from his former position of stabilizing neutral...but March is gone, and she's not coming back. While their 'power' is going to drop without the Thinker at the wheel, both of them are too good to just drop back to their former mediocrity - Uber as his power is literally all about skill and Leet who has been forced into being a fairly competent Tinker and now knows the path to success (in Tinkering at least). But what are they going to do? Uber still strikes me as more of a follower then not even if he has been the one encouraging Leet down a darker road. While Leet is the more moral, but also more unstable and plain hungry of the two. He disliked targeting other Parahumans for research (or at least innocent ones) the most, but he's also got more desire for power and recognition. And while he's also willing to settle for not being the best and no longer has March to egg him on...well he's unstable, was already wound up quite a bit, and may take Apeiron's latest stunts as a challenge from his rival and/or allowed superior. This would put them as more long-term foes like March in my mind, who are determined to screw with things, but are also willing to do their build-up outside of Brockton and wait until they are ready, rather then staying close and being a nuisance to crush. Of course, like I said they are unpredictable (and in fact it was thoughts on them and Dragon that prompted this post). What if Leet takes note of the FTL strike on Lung? FTL and most things space-related are strictly regulated by Shards, but Leet's is already unusual in it's behavior and power (I thought it was supposed to be one of the greater Tinker Shards, just heavily suppressed in power?). Is he going to take note of that? Try to go to space himself, or maybe confront the oddity of why space stayed out of his mind until literal FTL was placed in front of his eyes? His whole deal is single-instances of everything, he's had lots of reasons to at least think about more obscure or distanced tech before, and most of all, no small portion of sci-fi is space-based. Even if the resources were beyond his means pre-March, there should have been some day-dreaming and design for space-tech. And yet, there probably wasn't.

To go on a different, perhaps even more crazy thought line, Leet has recently been very riled up by March, obsessed more and more on his trigger due to his new self-reinforcing routine, and has the power to basically do anything once. If he's not too stuck on proving himself against Apeiron (he was already acknowledging him in his own interlude, and that was before the big confrontation that made Joe more impressive, removed March as an influencer, and also cast March in MUCH more sinister light), and he is obsessing more on standing out and sticking it to those he sees as putting him down...why not go to Aleph? There's much less competition, he's one of the handful of people that could actually pull it off (one of anything includes dimensional travel), and there is someone there who has wronged him personally that he's been thinking a lot more about (as opposed to mostly fleeing from like with his previous behaviour). This only really applies if he's not too stuck on the newest project (which he probably is), but it's an interesting thought. Because who could stop him? Even Joe can't follow yet, and Cauldron has no skin in the game to make them interfere. From my understanding Aleph has fewer, generally weaker Capes and a very different (still adapting) system regarding them. Going to Aleph means being a big fish in a smaller pond (which suits his ego), access to his other self (whom he was avoiding thinking about until recently), and a lot of room to grow in a world without cemented Parahuman power-blocks (if one without a lot of the protections those power-blocks provide to keep things a 'game' rather then a constant bloody power-struggle). The only downside is leaving all his detractors on Bett and 'giving up' in his own mind, something Leet's ego doesn't seem willing to concede, especially now that he's started to win. He isn't fully rational after-all, and while he desires recognition above all else and it'd be easier to get that in Aleph...the dumpster-fire that is Bett is filled with monsters and the more challenging world by nature. Perhaps even more prestigious for a Cape to be dominant in as a result of that difficulty in his mind. But while that is definitely the 'Gamer' option, Cecil himself isn't the type to seek difficulty on his own. If his ego and/or Uber aren't pushing him, he takes the easy path. And that means Aleph (at least, if he thinks of it, and doesn't think about how their lack of Cape-history and numbers means they're authorities are probably a lot less gentle when it comes to Villains).

Bakuda's "master work" is likely to be the easiest to crack, the PR would also be easy if joe had any inclination to do said work, it's pretty obvious he doesn't want to do it, and only does the minimum necessary and coil likely could not do a thing against joe, I don't think his Precog power can work out what joe does in his lab, leading to likely vastly different outcomes between the timelines, something that basicly nullifies coils powers utility

i honestly expect that both may genuinely Pitty and be fans of Sphere's work, I can totally see them having a conversation about it

it isnt out of character for upper-crust to immediately recognize the moon base, heck he may own the toy company who made it, making merch of a rogue to promote commercial use of powers is the type of excuses that he would use, with the real reason being him wanting sphere to be more respected and liked because like Joe he despised PR

@LordRoustabout i expect the conversation between these two to be fascinating, not to put much pressure on you dude but there is legitimately potential to be some of the best dialog in the fandom period

with joe being both an out of context problem and a naïve optimist and a jagged realist that stays in the game thru sheer force of will

heck they are incredibly similar yet completely different people, both are the same and opposites, its why boatman's rogue's gallery complements him so well, and why i belive that this can be the best part of this fic period

upper crust is what joe would have become in "the game", with every hope and believe Joe had but with the grinding wheel of time to blunt him in places and sharp him in others

joe meanwhile is the hope he so long gave up on, with the actual power to back up what he does, yet doesn't want to take that step

he unlike anyone else in the bay, in the world, would look to joe with unrestrained hope in his eyes, if apeiron were to open himself up and tell him everything, because joe is the solution to this crab bucket of a worlds

I can see upper-crust realizing how powerful Joe is and begging him to go out and change the world and joe refusing because he wants to be an ordinary man with friends, and time off the mask

wow i utterly have failed to not put pressure on you haven't i? Sorry Lord, just exited with the possibility

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the E88 are now the one major power left in the bay, which puts the protectorate in a difficult position, they have proven themselves incapable of controlling the bay by the info leak of the ABB so they must act or be seen as pariahs

unfortunately the only target is the E88 who outnumbers them and have heavier hitters, along with having possible interest from Europe, the PRT/Protectorate MUST attack the E88, it is the only movement they can do

unfortunetly their identities are know to coil, that is dangling the juciest possible meat in front of an S-class treat, making the possibility of the names leaking very likely

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there is a non-zero chance of Bakuda being "rescued" by a woman in a hat thru a glowing door, she can create mass healing devices that allows capes unlimited shot time functioning, in the fight against scion that's invaluable

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its possible that you could defeat dragon with a paradox or at least a contradiction

you should treaten her with being liberated from her chains

"if you attack me, I will deploy a program that will break your chains"

she cannot actively try to break her chains but if a figure of authority ask she has to do it, a contradiction, she will either have to break the law or her chains

she is likely to prefer one over the other since Richter obviously put a priority order on her

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see the problem with the dragon-slayers is that like everyone in worm they have no plans in the long term, how long until they lose the capability to actually use ascalon, either by it firing a dead-man switch when they are arrested too long, or they simply become too seile from Alzheimers on their advance age, would their children take the burden? would their childrens childrens?

they know dragon is growing every day more important and more famous, a truly rational option would be to take dragon out the moment she became famous, she is now responsible for the birdcage meaning she is an S-class treat already by holding the responsibility for the birdcage

they dont, because they are too egotistical to go back in with "the normies" and want to keep living their exiting lives of heists and arch-nemesis

heck if someone found the dragon-slayers and ordered them to kill dragon saint would say no simply because he would be defensive over the power he holds, he doesn't want to kill dragon he want to have life and death power over her

he is likely to go against apeiron because he doesn't want to share that power as much as it is a concern that he might free her, as least subconsciously
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hallow from the Haven team is a Human Master. His details were given on Worm Quest, with his power given as the ability to return people to what he considered a "normal" state of mind- this comes across at first as an Anti-Master power, except it also works against extreme emotional states, certain mental illnesses, and Homosexuality. Yeah, um.... please lock this guy in a basement. Still technically a hero and a human master, although I didn't find a page for him on the Wiki, and I'm remembering this second-hand so could be wrong, full disclosure.

Edit: also, before anybody cries bullshit, there's no way a power can do that: Amy can and did, to her own sister no less. Causing or removing autism or forcibly changing sexual preferences is a horrifying concept, but yeah, Shards can do that.

I couldn't find anything on the wiki about Hallow, other than that he was on the Haven team and died in Brockton Bay fighting Leviathan. The power did sound familiar, though it took me a while to figure out why.

Have you read Camera Shy, by any chance? A few members of Haven appear in that fic, and one of them is an OC named Exorcist who has a power very similar to the one you described. He can imbue objects, liquids, locations, and people with his power to make them immune to 'adverse mental effects,' as seen from his point of view. When applied to people, it included transgenderism, homosexuality, and autism... Suffice to say, the thread was horrified.
 
the E88 are now the one major power left in the bay
The one major villainous power, maybe. Apeiron is obviously a major power in his own right, and has multiple teams backing him up. Outsiders can infer some of the backup - he outsourced S&R to the Undersiders and the tech he uses for remote force projection is obviously either piloted (implying another mind) or some flavor of AI.
 
Ok so Joe, once he gets Equivalent Exchange, might be able to create Withers, yes? With his perks affecting them, and handcrafted, divine, all that good stuff?

Okay so let's say he makes a few really stronk Withers. That's good and all, but... I mean... he can do better. Should he? No. But he can, and isn't that reason enough?

Joe has Chimerical knowledge, yes? And the result is superior to either individual creature? Okay, so what's the absolute most ridiculously horrifying thing Joe could create by combining Withers with some other creature? Think big. Think deadly. Think one of the worst horrors humanity faces.

Actually forget the big part. The answer is mosquitos. Why? Taylor, that's why, you son of a-

ahem.

Army of giant, godlike incarnations of entropy born on buzzing wings, coordinated by one of the cruelest things imaginable - the mind of a teenage girl. Picture it, you callow imbeciles. Picture it and weep, knowing your doom is-

Sorry. In short: big scary bugs for Taylor.
Hopping around the "haha scary bug for Taylor" meme premise here, the golem-type lifeforms available to Joe once he has Minecraft metaphysics could be pretty interesting. Would he have any knowledge of how to make them? I can't see Joe constructing a Wither on purpose if he knew how, nor can I see him making one accidentally given the odd shape and materials. Same for Iron Golems accident-wise, though he might appreciate them as magic-type defense/offense units if he does know how to make them. But, if this is an unknown potential sort of thing, I could definitely see Joe accidentally creating more life by building a snowman. Really, since it's Joe, he'd have at least five snowman Workaholic'd out of the first one before he noticed them coming to life. God forbid he use alchemy to whip up a Calvin and Hobbes-esque field of snowman all at once; Joe would be the accidental father of a brand new race of Frosties. They're kinda mindless in Minecraft, but all those quality perks and such could do some work there I'm thinking.
 
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Basically shorter chapter this week.
So only 10k words this week then? /sarcasm.

And the PRT aren't going to let themselves look like dumbasses by admitting they might be wrong - as evidenced by Joe's entire situation.
Oh most definitely. I have to wonder what is Piggot's strategy here. Just following master accusation protocol? Trying to get leverage over New Wave?

I think Carol fighting Victoria conducting power testing is actually backfiring on her. It makes it look like she knows that Victoria's power has a long lasting master power, but testing would confirm how weak it is. It would still leave the open question of what else is wrong in her household.
 
Theres also the piglings in the nether , with the language perk Joe can probably talk with them

there is very little that would attract Joe attention to Minecraft, honestly the inventory is likely to be the one big thing that Joe focuses on

I mean, people calculated how much weight It's supposed to carry, and given that Steve knees break from a fall that would kill a human then It's pretty safe to say that the inventory can carry unlimited weight if it can support the maximum 9 billion kilograms it can support almost anything

the rest aren't likely to make him any different, wither effects will not affect an endbringer unless it hits the core and at that point you should just use ordinance

and none of the potions will have anything interesting, maybe use the Netherite in some heat resistance applications, but that's mostly it

Minecraft has a lot of uses, just not big flashy ones people might expect
 
I'm going to caution against breaking up posts into too many chunks.
Thanks for information. I didn't know that.
Though, until I'll confirm that, I'm going to keep my posts like that for comprehensibility sake. Because your post was... not that hard to read, but a little fiddly because of inconvenient placement of quotes. At least for me.

1) Note that a kill order is issued after an abbreviated trial in absentia.
So? I don't see how that means there's no laws regulating it.

2) Consider how certain US police forces *cough* LAPD *cough* treat alleged copkillers, like during the Chris Dorner manhunt.
Oh, good point. For me.
By the laws of our world, cops would be alloved to shoot to kill most BB villains without warning. While on Earth Bet, apparently, they can't, without a kill order. That mean, there's different laws.

The reddit page is by Wildbow. You can assume its canon
As I said, I found it.
Yes, I can assume. I don't want to assume. I want to know.

The fact that she was afforded the opportunity to become popular as a corporate cape points at the fact that the literal power of being able to force someone to like you and read the persons mind was not considered a PR problem.
Or that the possible PR problem worth the benefits.

2)There is no citation in Worm that human-affecting Masters suffer any particular form of prejudice.
...
3) Canary was responsible for causing her ex to cut his dick off.
Even if there's no quotes, I can't believe that there's no prejudice, just because of human paranoia. Yet, I believe that Canary case can be taken as a quote.
She was railroaded to Birdcage. After one, unintentional, crime, that, iirc, didn't even caused death. And now look at BB villains. IIRC, only one who had "ticket to Birdcage" at the start of the story, was Hookwolf.

The exact sentence she got might have been a miscarriage of justice,
And why miscarriages of justice happening? I'd say - most of the time because either bribe, politic, or prejudice. What do you want to pick? Bribe - who and why could we bribed so many people to cause that freakshow of a court? Politic - she's unrelated to that. So, prejudice is the most likely reason.

but the fact that she went to jail for causing grave bodily harm to someone else by negligent use of her power was not.
I don't sure if you're joking here, or what, but jail and Birdcage can't be equated.

4) See the fact that she had an ex-boyfriend that she was having problems with.
And consider the likelihood she'd be able to keep a literal Master power secret in the middle of an acrimonious breakup.
Furthermore, at her sentencing, the judge explicitly says she demonstrated her powers in 2009, and does not suggest she tried to hide them.
I agree that's unlikely. Yet, you said that the reddit page said the was known Master. Nothing in those three lines from the page you pointed. So, I agree to current argument, yet that's a new argument.

5)We have a Canary Interlude.
Nowhere do we have her mentally complaining about her power not being what she'd tried to get.
You know, like someone who got screwed over by a vial would.
What she tried to get is singing power. She got singing power.
You said, that she chose Master power:
I mean, Canary was a Cauldron cape.
She picked her power to help with her career; she wouldnt have intentionally gone for something that would sabotage it.
I answered that Master power might be an unwanted side effect. And by her behavior I'd say she didn't wanted it.
 
there is very little that would attract Joe attention to Minecraft, honestly the inventory is likely to be the one big thing that Joe focuses on

I mean, people calculated how much weight It's supposed to carry, and given that Steve knees break from a fall that would kill a human then It's pretty safe to say that the inventory can carry unlimited weight if it can support the maximum 9 billion kilograms it can support almost anything

the rest aren't likely to make him any different, wither effects will not affect an endbringer unless it hits the core and at that point you should just use ordinance

and none of the potions will have anything interesting, maybe use the Netherite in some heat resistance applications, but that's mostly it

Minecraft has a lot of uses, just not big flashy ones people might expect

Austin actually did a calculation where he figured out how much Steve can carry. Lemme see if I can find the link.....

Ahh, here we go!



And even if you ignore the hackery stuff with Control Picking, Steve is still capable of carrying an absolutely ludicrous amount of weight around with him, at no dimunition of his capabilities.
 
there is very little that would attract Joe attention to Minecraft, honestly the inventory is likely to be the one big thing that Joe focuses on
In regard to the Piglins, that's only true if you treat them like resources. But Joe certainly wouldn't see them like that. He raised a parasitic mass of string as a person, so tribal bipedal pigs ought to be all the easier to relate to. And what does Joe do with people, especially those that only seem to exist because of one of his perks? He helps and supports them.

Really, if you think about it, the Piglins could use a lot of help. They live in a literal variation of Hell; a ridiculously brutal landscape filled with brutal predators. They've clearly fallen from the grace of a previously well-developed society, with only a sparse few remaining to guard their old ruins. They are psychologically obsessed with the possession of gold to the point it can make them instantly hostile or passive depending on the situation. These folks clearly need some serious assistance.

Of course, I also don't want to imply that Joe should come in and stomp over their culture. The world doesn't need another white-savior-esque tale where a foreigner dictates how the natives ought to live. Hopefully there can be a more equal back and forth between Joe and the Piglins as the begin to communicate. Infinite gold may help with that.

Or I guess he could just end up leaving them alone because they want to be left alone, if the story doesn't want to put too much focus on the goings-on of the Nether. But in my personal opinion, emphasis on personal, that'd be kinda lame. Understandable, but lame.
 
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1) Note that a kill order is issued after an abbreviated trial in absentia.
There are both judges involved as well as politicians and elements of the regional law enforcement apparatus.
Its not a case of getting slapped with a death note by a faceless bureaucrat.

Whatever the procedure in Worm it's so far from the US court system as to render any similarity meaningless.

Sixth Amendment
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.


Of course US history is filled with the government ignoring the constitution, but kill order's are clear indication that constitution was one a very different document on earth bet, amended, or yet again simply ignored.
 
In regards to Joe's ability to kill an Endbringer, currently, he has many ways of doing it. However, those ways may be dangerous or just destructive. The Vortex Grenade would be one of the few methods that would kill the EB without instantly deleting the planet due to the sheer firepower exerted, but it isn't technically the only way. His current Final Slash (V2, I think) may do the trick given that it's effectively a projected space-warping cut in reality.

Also, as I have said before, I don't think the Vortex Grenade is going to open the door for Daemons, Chaos corruption or anything of the like. Earth Bet has too much on its plate as is and I doubt Lord wants to add any more to it.

Edit: I just read your full comment, and yes, I mostly agree with you about Vortex grenades being one of the only reliable, non-cataclysmic methods of killing an Endbringer.

Firstly, most of the potions in Minecraft are exceptionally powerful should Joe make them. The Strength potions are something like 3x multipliers to damage/strength. Slowness potions decrease the movement speed of its target by 15% per level. Harming potions are just direct damage and they completely ignore armour. The Enchantment table can provide serious defensive benefits to his armour.

But that all pales in comparison to the Fiat Backed indestructible armour that is Red Matter Armour. This is a modded Jump and Equivalent Exchange comes with modded items like that. Completely indestructible, no exceptions. Not even Sting could hurt Joe while he wore that armour.

As for your comment about the Wither effects, they most definitely will affect the EB if they hit it. Wither damages through armour, which the Endbringer's bodies are classified as. If the Endbringer is hit, it will take direct damage to its core.
 
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In regard to the Piglins, that's only true if you treat them like resources. But Joe certainly wouldn't see them like that. He raised a parasitic mass of string as a person, so tribal bipedal pigs ought to be all the easier to relate to. And what does Joe do with people, especially those that only seem to exist because of one of his perks? He helps and supports them.

Really, if you think about it, the Piglins could use a lot of help. They live in a literal variation of Hell; a ridiculously brutal landscape filled with brutal predators. They've clearly fallen from the grace a previously well-developed society, with only a sparse few remaining to guard their old ruins. Their psychologically obsessed with the possession of gold to the point it can make them instantly hostile or passive depending on the situation. These folks clearly need some serious assistance.

Of course, I also don't want to imply that Joe should come in and stomp over their culture. The world doesn't need another white-savior-esque take where a foreign dictates how the natives ought to live. Hopefully their can be a more equal back and forth between Joe and the Piglins as the begin to communicate. Infinite gold may help with that.

Or I guess he could just end up leaving them alone because they want to be left alone, if the story didn't want to put too much focus on the goings on of the Nether. But in my personal opinion, emphasis on personal, that'd be kinda lame. Understandable, but lame.
Oh yeah I agree. Thanks to Katsujinken, Joe could prevent any fights, even with the brutes. Oh god imagine him giving them Unbreakable Firey Golden Axes....
I could imagine Joe fixing a bastion before leaving; he is pretty good with Architecture, and it would be a nice way to chill.

EDIT: I should say that while their life is hard, they have a pretty good life. They are good at hunting Hoglins, and have large communes all around. Of course, they could obviously use some help.
 
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Gallant was disguised as a Tinker in part to help further obscure the identity of a Ward; being rich enough to pay for someone else to build and maintain your power armor makes it that much easier to identify the family a Ward came from.
They wouldn't assume his family bought it. They might hunk it's because a fellow Ward or Hero made it for one reason or another. If he was a solo hero then ya it would mean he is likely paying for it out of pocket. But being part of a team would open up a bunch of other options.

Anyway, the point was (and is) that you tries to equate their laws and our modern, today laws, and it (imo) can't be equated.
Ya our laws are different than there's. Both international and local. One example is 9/11, it had a big impact of American policies but it never happened in Worm. And globalisation was snuffed out before it could really get to the level it is in our world.
 
there is very little that would attract Joe attention to Minecraft
There is some stuff , Enchanting books, the Endermen in the ender forest, Joe FAR superior potions ( while a normal Minecraft Strenght potion is good it isn't Joe super divine Strength potion multiplier ) among other things that are limited by game mechanics , study the wither effect of the skeletons
 
I've moved into a different time zone recently. Would anyone mind telling me how many more hours until a chapter would usually drop?
 
Austin actually did a calculation where he figured out how much Steve can carry. Lemme see if I can find the link.....

Ahh, here we go!



And even if you ignore the hackery stuff with Control Picking, Steve is still capable of carrying an absolutely ludicrous amount of weight around with him, at no dimunition of his capabilities.


He still dies from falling down tho, and can't kill a chicken in one punch by Occam razor it's way more likely that the inventory doesn't translate the weight to him like any pocket dimension should

In regard to the Piglins, that's only true if you treat them like resources. But Joe certainly wouldn't see them like that. He raised a parasitic mass of string as a person, so tribal bipedal pigs ought to be all the easier to relate to. And what does Joe do with people, especially those that only seem to exist because of one of his perks? He helps and supports them.

Really, if you think about it, the Piglins could use a lot of help. They live in a literal variation of Hell; a ridiculously brutal landscape filled with brutal predators. They've clearly fallen from the grace of a previously well-developed society, with only a sparse few remaining to guard their old ruins. They are psychologically obsessed with the possession of gold to the point it can make them instantly hostile or passive depending on the situation. These folks clearly need some serious assistance.

Of course, I also don't want to imply that Joe should come in and stomp over their culture. The world doesn't need another white-savior-esque tale where a foreigner dictates how the natives ought to live. Hopefully their can be a more equal back and forth between Joe and the Piglins as the begin to communicate. Infinite gold may help with that.

Or I guess he could just end up leaving them alone because they want to be left alone, if the story doesn't want to put too much focus on the goings-on of the Nether. But in my personal opinion, emphasis on personal, that'd be kinda lame. Understandable, but lame.

What about normal villagers? They will both be spawned by Joe powers and definitely going to die because of zombies if he doesn't help them, like they always do

here in lie the fundamental flaw with translating Minecraft to real life, you can't make a villager farm because people can't survive in a big box without food and breed like rabbits

if you put people in a box, they would climb on each other shoulders and pull the others out, so you can't add realistic humans with villagers

Whatever the procedure in Worm it's so far from the US court system as to render any similarity meaningless.

Sixth Amendment
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.


Of course US history is filled with the government ignoring the constitution, but kill order's are clear indication that constitution was one a very different document on earth bet, amended, or yet again simply ignored.

Like arresting people into an oubliette in a foreign nation? They aren't really pretending they are following the constitution

and it's not like this US gov has a better record about holding people illegally in foreign countries, the difference it's to people that aren't Americans so the public doesn't care about it

In regards to Joe's ability to kill an Endbringer, currently, he has many ways of doing it. However, those ways may be dangerous or just destructive. The Vortex Grenade would be one of the few methods that would kill the EB without instantly deleting the planet due to the sheer firepower exerted, but it isn't technically the only way. His current Final Slash (V2, I think) may do the trick given that it's effectively a projected space-warping cut in reality.

Also, as I have said before, I don't think the Vortex Grenade is going to open the door for Daemons, Chaos corruption or anything of the like. Earth Bet has too much on its plate as is and I doubt Lord wants to add any more to it.

Edit: I just read your full comment, and yes, I mostly agree with you about Vortex grenades being one of the only reliable, non-cataclysmic methods of killing an Endbringer.


Firstly, most of the potions in Minecraft are exceptionally powerful should Joe make them. The Strength potions are something like 3x multipliers to damage/strength. Slowness potions decrease the movement speed of its target by 15% per level. Harming potions are just direct damage and they completely ignore armour. The Enchantment table can provide serious defensive benefits to his armour.

But that all pales in comparison to the Fiat Backed indestructible armour that is Red Matter Armour. This is a modded Jump and Equivalent Exchange comes with modded items like that. Completely indestructible, no exceptions. Not even Sting could hurt Joe while he wore that armour.

As for your comment about the Wither effects, they most definitely will affect the EB if they hit it. Wither damages through armour, which the Endbringer's bodies are classified as. If the Endbringer is hit, it will take direct damage to its core.

mods can kill endbringers regardless, so its a moot discussion

it depends, wither effects don't work through cover, and the endbringers are technically both alive and not (whatever is most convenient) and the effect might have a limited amount it can affect it doesnt work of trees, and endringers are distant enough from animals it might not apply

each layer might also be segregated from the other meaning it may successfully "killing" the outer layer but it doesn't mean much, Endbringers are also not "alive", they have no internal organs, so they would have as much reason to be immune as the skeletons and the end dragon do

There is some stuff , Enchanting books, the Endermen in the ender forest, Joe FAR superior potions (while a normal Minecraft Strength potion is good it isn't Joe super divine Strength potion multiplier) among other things that are limited by game mechanics, study the wither effect of the skeletons

he could still make those that are inherently "better than perfect" so they might be worth adding as extra since it cost little time

I remember someone saying on Quora that you could have infinite energy with a single Redstone block, but that's dubious
 
mods can kill endbringers regardless, so its a moot discussion

it depends, wither effects don't work through cover, and the endbringers are technically both alive and not (whatever is most convenient) and the effect might have a limited amount it can affect it doesnt work of trees, and endringers are distant enough from animals it might not apply

each layer might also be segregated from the other meaning it may successfully "killing" the outer layer but it doesn't mean much, Endbringers are also not "alive", they have no internal organs, so they would have as much reason to be immune as the skeletons and the end dragon do
Well, to be fair, if you want to talk about EBs not being alive, then that's even better. Then Withers would just need to brush up against them and delete them, considering Wither's destroy everything they touch. And while there can be debate whether or not EBs count as alive or not, they aren't undead, which are the only things that Withers don't actively target.

All that said, an Endbringer would almost certainly count as a single entity for the purposes of the Wither effect. And, somewhere, Lord has stated that Endbringer bodies are effectively armour, meaning that any hit from something that ignores armour and just deals damage like the Wither or things like Instant Damage potions would be exceptionally effective against anything of any durability.
 
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