March isn't powerful enough to kill an endbringer. Canonically her striker power was stopped by Narwhal's forcefields, it isn't unstoppable the way Flechette's is. Apeiron also has no reason to hand her tech considering what a lunatic she is.
Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)
- Thread starter LordRoustabout
- Start date
- Location
- Dhaka, Bangladesh
Un expectedly small after a two week wait. I was expecting to see all the way to the end of the ABB.
EDIT: And apparently I'm one of those that doesn't read the author's notes before commenting. Tch.
EDIT: And apparently I'm one of those that doesn't read the author's notes before commenting. Tch.
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Khepri14
Thus kindly I scatter...
- Location
- Following the wind
Gotta say, I agree. This chapter doesn't actually change much, nor does it deliver on any of the promises/answers* Lord put out other than "it will be a Victoria POV interlude." The only good thing about this interlude is that Vicky is slowly beginning to think**. I do like that she's made the first initial step(s), but it's 50/50 if she'll regress back to her (rather literal) brute phase (especially if matters surrounding Amy don't go the way she wants or expects). I do hope she keeps it up honestly, and if she does, then perhaps she'll get through to Vista as well.
I do also appreciate how Lightstar is displayed here and I hope there might be a future interaction between him and Manpower where he can - hopefully - talk Manpower down from his seemingly suicidal actions by using their shared experiences or seomthing. Because as it stands, it looks like Manpower will die, if not during the bombs as an offscreen casualty that Joe didn't see/notice, then later when one of the Endbringers/S9/Teeth/whatever come to Brockton.
I'm also hoping that Amy will finally get out after all this because she's been sidelined for so long and I'm looking forward to seeing if and how Carol throwing her right into M/S screening has affected her and her perceptions towards the Dallons/Pelhams and possibly the PRT. It's gonna be a doozy, that.
TL;DR: There's a lot I'm looking forward to, but this interlude disappoints because it brings nothing new for all its wordcount.
*Those will now supposedly be in the next interlude, tbf, but...
**I'll be honest, did we really need an entire interlude (with a good portion of it just rehash of the main chapter) just to prove that she's starting to smarten up and not blame Apeiron for everything? Feels more like we could've had a very brief snapshot of her thoughts like those Addendums and moved on to something that actually advanced the plot, rather than have 14k words about Vicky and an interlude that cuts off before the real meat of things.
Inclinedtoserve
Towering Star
- Location
- Up above the world so high
I love how far everyone is on the wrong track from Apeiron's identity. The Cured Case 53 theory both would invalidate Joe, the guy who has been seen in public consistently for his whole life with no gaps where he may have been a 53.
And every tinkers' ego will be screaming at them to refuse the idea that Apeiron is new because a single week to get this far is absurd to them. The "building back up to old heights" theory is way more gentle on their minds. No one would look at Joe and compare him to Apeiron and think "oh yeah this fits our profiling and theories."
And every tinkers' ego will be screaming at them to refuse the idea that Apeiron is new because a single week to get this far is absurd to them. The "building back up to old heights" theory is way more gentle on their minds. No one would look at Joe and compare him to Apeiron and think "oh yeah this fits our profiling and theories."
- Pronouns
- He
None, Coil wanted March died as she is a anti-thinker and messed with Dinahs power, she was a big hole in his safety net, Coil still thinks that he can use precognetion on Joe, He is going to try direct Joe at his enemies, once Coil finds out that Joe, more specifically his passenger, knows what his power is and that Dinahs power does not work on him, to quote Lord, he will use desperate measures.
Apeiron would have a reason if she's the only thing that can stop an EB in the current situation (sans Flechette, but the Shard's a troll and I doubt it'd get in the way of Flechette/Parian OTP). As for her being unable to kill an EB, didn't OP change that? It at least sounded like he did when the MC freaked out about her, so it seems like she's capable of doing that in this story at least. Unless I misread that, of course.
The Shallow
Shallow, Yet Deep
- Location
- Your Universe
- Pronouns
- She/They
Something I'm not sure we've discussed, or at least not adequately, is that Joe will see this as a failure.
Joe is a perfectionist, things must be the best they can be or they are useless. This is why he kept upgrading everything with every perk initially. This is due to his upbringing, but yeah, he is a perfectionist. The stuff he didn't anticipate or prepare more for, that did cause him a lot of damage, and so he will be mad at himself.
Not to mention his recent philosophy which made him see lungs death as a failure.
He's going to be disappointed in himself. Seriously dissapointed.
Not only will this be interesting to see, if Dr. Campbell is like "No, cape stuff also affects your mental health, speak about it.", in therapy, but I'm also curious to how this will change him, what he might decide to do.
I could easily imagine Joe starting to push himself into conflict hoping for more connections to Time, hoping he can speed up as much as possible.
If he gets Skills:Stealth/Espionage, he could also take an avenue of researching/investing into intelligence and infosec, dodging dragon and getting as much as he can about possible threats before they appear. Building fast drones to gain readings of capes and escape rapidly, so their powers can be better analyzed and countered.
I'm honestly excited for the next arc.
Joe is a perfectionist, things must be the best they can be or they are useless. This is why he kept upgrading everything with every perk initially. This is due to his upbringing, but yeah, he is a perfectionist. The stuff he didn't anticipate or prepare more for, that did cause him a lot of damage, and so he will be mad at himself.
Not to mention his recent philosophy which made him see lungs death as a failure.
He's going to be disappointed in himself. Seriously dissapointed.
Not only will this be interesting to see, if Dr. Campbell is like "No, cape stuff also affects your mental health, speak about it.", in therapy, but I'm also curious to how this will change him, what he might decide to do.
I could easily imagine Joe starting to push himself into conflict hoping for more connections to Time, hoping he can speed up as much as possible.
If he gets Skills:Stealth/Espionage, he could also take an avenue of researching/investing into intelligence and infosec, dodging dragon and getting as much as he can about possible threats before they appear. Building fast drones to gain readings of capes and escape rapidly, so their powers can be better analyzed and countered.
I'm honestly excited for the next arc.
The Shallow
Shallow, Yet Deep
- Location
- Your Universe
- Pronouns
- She/They
March has a much weaker sting, due to it not being her main. Joe's Super-Sechen Feild makes it significantly stronger, but Flechette is in BB rn, so I see no reason why he would ever need March.
MagicalAmbitions
the rose in your vase
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think the thing that stops March from being able to kill an Endbringer is the range restriction of her Sting - Leviathan is (extremely) fast, Simurgh is precognitive, and Behemoth radiates instant death within 30 feet, which means that she's never going to get within melee range of one of the OG 3.
also this
Apeiron has said he already has the tech to kill an Endbringer, if he wanted to do it he wouldn't need to bother involving March.
The Shallow
Shallow, Yet Deep
- Location
- Your Universe
- Pronouns
- She/They
Also, once he gets Sting scans, both May and Lily are obselete tbf.
Flechette is actually into Garment, so not a shot he'd need march, even with no Sting scans.
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I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
- Pronouns
- He/They
Wait, which chapter was this from again? I forget
Hence the "sans Flechette" thing. That could work out, but chances are that she'll then get napped by Cauldron, which the Passenger might disagree with due to it being a popular pairing and the Passenger not looking like it's all there (on another note, does Apeiron know Flechette can do that? March's abilities did seem to surprise him).
That is why I mentioned the power armor. Probably won't do anything against Ziz in particular (unless I missed something Ziz is one of the few things he has to actually consider a threat), but an anti-dynakinetic field, or in Leviathan's case, a speed boost, seem like they'd be well within Apeiron's reach. Until the EBs stop sandbagging anyway.
Wait he did? I seem to recall EBs and Scion being a big deal according to the Passenger, and since you need some major dimensional shenanigans I'd have assumed that to be a good bit deeper in the endgame?
Shame, that. Oh well, disregard what I said then.
Narsauce
The Crucible Shitlord
- Location
- Here, there and everywhere
Yeah, he could. Vortex Grenade from 40K could do it, and Transformers tech is bullshit. Issue is, Vortex Grenades are basically mobile interdimensional rifts that fuck up anything they come in contact with. And that Transformers tech would basically just result in a massive explosion that would do a lot more harm than good in the long run. Also, his passenger is worried about spawning more Endbringers like in canon.
The main reason Scion is considered a threat by his passenger is the fact that we don't know what his max power is. We've seen some of what he can do, but we've never actually got a solid explanation as to what his (Or other entities') limits are.
- Pronouns
- He
Chapter 29 Presentation
Where March in her civilian identity went to Garments hand over evidence and she remarked how Flettechet look happy to be enacting with her, Also in Sophia's addendum she teased her about it.
We haven't really seen the Max Power for most Endbringers either though. Well, aside from "less powerful than Zion" for the most part. They have very similar defense mechanisms (dimensional warping defenses and immunity to Stranger/Trump/Thinker powers), with the only big difference being Scion's Thinker ability (PtV, though even then Ziz is pretty much his equal for all anti-Parahuman-purposes) and Stilling (which... Again, isn't all too different from just getting smacked around by Ziz).
I feel like the ability to kill Ziz in particular should translate very well to an ability to kill Zion. While he is Ziz+, he doesn't seem to be structured fundamentally differently from Ziz when it comes to what he actually brings to the table in terms of Hax, sans maybe the whole extradimensional body thing, which is connected to his projection anyway and thus isn't that big of a defensive feature once you've actually managed to kill said projection.
- Location
- Deep inside the sand
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
BakuPeiron is going to go strong in this one. In addition when he addressed Bakuda with concern when he asked about her cancer bomb.
I think when he gets some downtime he will probably make a connection between "can kill me" -> omni-directional -> targets Flechette -> cluster trigger with Flechette -> Kiss/kill phenomen -> realizes Flechette has a similar attack power as March as grab bags usuall does -> realizes why Flechette is important to save the world.
Probably. I mean, my scenario was never gonna be the most optimal, it was going to be the one which will have the most in-character crackshipping for the next PHO-Interlude
Narsauce
The Crucible Shitlord
- Location
- Here, there and everywhere
While we haven't seen the Endbringers while not sandbagging, a Vortex Grenade or a big enough shot would kill them (Dimensional fuckery and Wildbow WoG). That much we know. Also, Ziz's precog is just accurate simulations of the future and like Contessa, cannot see triggers, as far as I know. Zion's PtV is really more like a "How-to-win.EXE", though it takes too much energy to use consistently.
I'm not disagreeing with that, but dimensional fuckery is also Zions big weakness to almost the same degree. As for Ziz and Contessa vs. Zions precog... Yes, but also no? I mean, neither of the three has actual future sight. Unless I missed something really big, all precog amounts to simulations of mundane things and shards sharing information. Which is also where Contessa's and Ziz's blindspots come from: They are, in no way, an actual limit of their powers true capabilities, they are artificially implemented, whereas Zion's PtV lacks those restrictions. And while that IS a point in his favor in a direct contest, it's irrelevant from an outsider's perspective: Their precognitions are all "perfect" concerning things outside the shard network, and concerning almost everything within, with the sole exception of no one being able to see Endbringers and Zion and Endbringers being unable to see Zion.
So if we're looking at a third party, it's pretty much pointless to distinguish between that, since those restrictions don't matter in any confrontation unless said third party happens to be an Endbringer.
It MIGHT come into play if Apeiron somehow manages to be so precise in his control of trigger events that he can get a specific Shard to trigger in the right way on the right individual at the right time without having to prep for it, since that'd be where Ziz would fail and Zion would succeed, but at that point Apeiron'd be so deeply in command of the Shard Network in question that we're probably looking at Entity-Apeiron vs Ziz/Zion combat.
EDIT: Then again, from the Passenger's standpoint, that could be a good enough point of distinction to warrant caution. But that's just it: It warrants caution, not a "if we don't play this perfectly, we die without a chance" reaction.
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- Location
- Brazil
Endbringers have their cores which you can shatter to kill them. Zion's projection is just that: a projection.
You can delete the entire thing continuously, and it won't make a dent unless you do it for something like decades or centuries IIRC.
I don't doubt 40k has the tech to kill him, but Vortex Grenades ain't it. A cyclonic torpedo would probably serve in place of the big ass tinker tech thingie Taylor used in canon, just needs a delivery mechanism.
The grenades would probably do it for the EBs tho.
You can delete the entire thing continuously, and it won't make a dent unless you do it for something like decades or centuries IIRC.
I don't doubt 40k has the tech to kill him, but Vortex Grenades ain't it. A cyclonic torpedo would probably serve in place of the big ass tinker tech thingie Taylor used in canon, just needs a delivery mechanism.
The grenades would probably do it for the EBs tho.
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The Shallow
Shallow, Yet Deep
- Location
- Your Universe
- Pronouns
- She/They
PRS has already explained that Joe will likely figure it out, if Lisa gives him just some basic knowledge the PRT has. As for Flechette, Behemoth told Cauldron how strong Sting actually is. She won't get nabbed by cauldron for a while, if she ever does.
- Pronouns
- He
0, nada, nothing. It's the reverse in fact, Coil might push the PRT to fight the ABB even harder (not that's it would be particularly hard to push the PRT to fight, well, terrorists). Coil want March killed ASAP. We are talking "the city could burn, as long as she burn with it" level of hate-boner.
March interfere with both his power and his pet, and as a control freak, that's not something he can accept.
Apeiron knows he will be able to kill a Endbringer, eventually (possibly even right know, although it would spawn more Endbringers). No reason to create even bigger problems by equipping March (you know, the unstable thinker who is crushing the city).
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Oh yeah, the Vortex Grenades won't kill the Warrior, I agree, but the Projection is connected to the main body's dimension (or at least they managed to fire through the hole it made upon it's destruction). You'd still have to destroy that, absolutely, but that doesn't appear to be that big a step up is all. I seem to recall from WoG (though I might be wrong on this) that blasting continent-sized chunks out of the Warrior's actual body would debilitate it enough to effectively kill it.
I'm not calling it trivial, by all means, but I also wouldn't say that continent-busting power is so far out of Apeiron's reach that he could never achieve that.
Then again, maybe I'm just reading into this too deeply and the Passenger's just being a giant troll. I'm just having a hard time imagining that it's that big of a stretch for Apeiron to be able to take Taylor's place as commander/Flechette's place as a blaster should the worst come to pass, so I can't see its desperate need to protect the two as more than an overreaction.
I dunno, I feel once Cauldron realizes that she can just end Endbringer fights pretty much before they start (which is the hypothetical level we're talking about: In canon, she could at best kill Behemoth, maybe Bohu, and even that would require bringing her into position, but that's not what we're going for in that scenario) they'd be a bit more active in nabbing her. Then again, it is Cauldron, and you're right to suspect that they might not. Their decision making hasn't been all that stellar in quite a few scenarios.
I mean, he could just remotely destroy it. I agree that giving March a permanent piece of equipment is a horrible idea, but sparing a "Consumable" to someone you're currently under the Endbringer truce with doesn't seem like that big a deal.
- Location
- USA
Once Joe's able to do so, he'll start healing every Case 53. And even the ugliest will look like a main character from JoJo's.😁