Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)
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The Shallow
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I had initially used the term "fucked up the master checks", because yeah, she wasn't mastered in any real/conventional way, she just avoided telling some specifics because joe speculated on a bunch of personal shit she didn't want out there.
The Shallow
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It's been delayed by a week, LR told us a while ago
Dragna
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Ok then, while this 'Mastered or not Mastered' argument has been fascinating and enlightening, it has been going on for a few weeks now and it's starting to piss me off, so I am going to put my take on issue for the sake of the collective intelligence that we all share. So I am going to put my ideas into words so bear with me.
In this case it doesn't particularly matter if the Master takes control or the Thinker 'convinces' our victim, as said victim is still being manipulated, influenced, forced or coerced in one way or another into doing something against their will, regardless of the tendencies of said victim (eg: our victim was naturally violent and/or volatile), because in one place they are being controled against their will by the Master and in the other our Thinker is putting an idea, concept or design in the victim head that they would not have made by themselves, making the difference between the two largely academic as there is little diffence in practice, with the only real difference in that the Thinker requires time and effort to get the same end result, brainwashing or mind controlling our victim.
With all this being said, let's go with an examples that we know of:
Uber and Leet - In Leet's preamble we see that he's not totally okay with what he's doing, and on top of that Uber and March has been using their powers to turn him around their way of thinking, effectively manipulating him into going along March schemes. Leet is even aware of this manipulation even stating that Uber has been doing this for a long time now. It is even stated that March with help from Uber has also been controling who Leet works and interacts with, how long he sleeps and even throws his trigger in face, so yes she is effectively controlling him.
Edit: I have been informed that the Attack helicopter thing 8s kind of offensive so that got edited out. I apologize of that hurt anybody sensibilities. My bad.
In this case it doesn't particularly matter if the Master takes control or the Thinker 'convinces' our victim, as said victim is still being manipulated, influenced, forced or coerced in one way or another into doing something against their will, regardless of the tendencies of said victim (eg: our victim was naturally violent and/or volatile), because in one place they are being controled against their will by the Master and in the other our Thinker is putting an idea, concept or design in the victim head that they would not have made by themselves, making the difference between the two largely academic as there is little diffence in practice, with the only real difference in that the Thinker requires time and effort to get the same end result, brainwashing or mind controlling our victim.
With all this being said, let's go with an examples that we know of:
Uber and Leet - In Leet's preamble we see that he's not totally okay with what he's doing, and on top of that Uber and March has been using their powers to turn him around their way of thinking, effectively manipulating him into going along March schemes. Leet is even aware of this manipulation even stating that Uber has been doing this for a long time now. It is even stated that March with help from Uber has also been controling who Leet works and interacts with, how long he sleeps and even throws his trigger in face, so yes she is effectively controlling him.
Edit: I have been informed that the Attack helicopter thing 8s kind of offensive so that got edited out. I apologize of that hurt anybody sensibilities. My bad.
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Of course Amy wasn't "mastered", she was mentally condition by the aura and Stockholm syndrome, by adding a further neglect and hate of her mom, Vicky being the only so far that actually care about her You get this result. Also people seem to forget that Jack cause Amy psychotic break plus add to being tortured by Bonesaw and him that resulted in Amy actions, of the S9 hadn't went to BB Amy probably wouldn't had done that to Vicky. Honestly if Jack had seriously target someone else like for example Taylor I don't doubt Jack can probably find the right buttons to push, to break Taylor psyche and make not only her control issues worse but will probably make Taylor commit an act at the level of what Amy did.
People seems to forget that Amy was up against Jack who is known to break people and Amy was among those victims, yes her actions are her fault but there tons of factors that actually culminated to it. If Jack has made an effort to bring the worst of any other Undersiders and make them commit heinous act I wonder if people will still like Tattletale or Taylor, in the end what Amy became in the wards was annoying and disappointing, she went from feeling immense guilt and self-hate for what she did to Vicky that she threw herself to the Birdcage, to this narcissistic, self delusional person, plus Amy knew Vicky would hate her forever, so why the hell would act like that, this just Wildbow making people worst.
The aura theory holds value because it not a constant master effect it conditions people exposed to it, and it obvious Amy resistance to it was weak, Wildbow is inconsistent and retcon his work just to portray character an even worse light(kinda suspicious why he didn't do the same with the undersiders and Taylor). Amy was a tragic character, that didn't deserve that and she always hated herself for the feelings she had for Vicky, Amy deserve to earn her redemption as any character but I guess it wouldn't happen because of the message Wildbow is trying to send to reader that people can't get better and that they only can get worse which bs.
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Two problems:
First, March have no reason to think that Weld and Apeiron are communicating, because Weld rescue have kept behind close door (due to the massive implication for Apeiron's healing). Weld was able to leak the info to the case 53 network. Granted, the ABB spy might have uncovered that if they are good enough.
Second, Dragon collaboration / fight / tinker foreplay took everything Apeiron had. Apeiron only put out the fire AFTER he dealt with Dragon with his servitors anti-abominable intelligence bullshit.
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The alt form will be a separate body Joe can fuse into.
As has been said you're correct in regards to that perk. Other things are possible with other perks but are more difficult.
It's been a week since Dinah was kidnapped. Whether she's being tortured depends on how broadly you define torture.
The Shallow
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Dinah is likely having a worse-off time. Coil's plans are in a bit of a mess, although they are not that bad with the ABB going far out of line. Surprised he didn't try to get a Somer's Rock meeting directly after the financial raid.
Aperion is weirdly ustable for Coil, just due to the mechanics of the forge meaning joe will get powers "arbitrarily", so I doubt he wants to simulate any timelines. Esp not when he has Dinah on his side.
Aperion is weirdly ustable for Coil, just due to the mechanics of the forge meaning joe will get powers "arbitrarily", so I doubt he wants to simulate any timelines. Esp not when he has Dinah on his side.
NotInventedHere
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... Dude. Must you? Gross.
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Rule 2: Don’t Be Hateful: Jokes derived from the "attack helicopter" jokes are not jokes at all: they are, just like their predecessor, plain transphobia.
I self identify as a Biologically Derived, Carbon Structure Based, Self-Propagating Neural Network.
I believe he can emulate Joe. Except, whatever he emulates has a version of Joe that the Forge is telling to not show anything too big, so either way his emulations are skewed.
The Shallow
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These jokes are not funny. Stop.
Also that attempted description of a human being is literally nonsense, but I am way too busy and tired to explain the nuances of those words you used and how in combination they mean nothing.
Right, my bad, but yeah he's probably realized that Joe isn't a Coward willing to do anything to survive like in the simulations, so still no sims.
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Exactly, it's nothing but parsed nonsense. And like with any nonsense information, you should ignore them and let them pass. Otherwise, you'd feed a troll like me, don't you think?
As for this, as long as he does figure it out, it does inform him that whatever "Thinker ability" Joe has, it soft-counters his. With that kind of information, it becomes easier to properly analyze the skewed data he gets with his power. Just knowing that he has to plan around Joe is enough to be a threat as long as he remains undetected really.
Coil is really the snake that hides in the grass. Even if the snake can't kill the lion with its venom, as long as it isn't killed by the lion it is free to terrorize the smaller creatures of Brockton Bay.
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Lightwavers
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The mods here are much better than over at SB. Report the people making attack helicopter jokes and move on, they'll be dealt with.
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wait the apache attack helicopter is now a reportable thing now? since when and why?
NotInventedHere
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I mean it's always, since its invention, been "hahahahaha how ridiculous it is that trans people exist without being constantly reminded that they are lesser than everyone else, let me demonstrate how much contempt I have for them and how blatantly I can belittle them, but in a way where if anyone goes WTF I can pull the old 'I was only joking lol'".
It's exactly as infractable as it would be to make a "joke" that was just 'fried chicken lol' in response to any suggestion that black people exist, or indeed to just randomly whip out 'white folks and watermelon lovers' in random discourse. It's always, always been a blatantly hateful "joke". It's always been gross as fuck.
The Shallow
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Probably yeah.
Are you not aware of the origins of the attack helicopter meme and its uses? Are you not aware of the way it is constantly weaponized against trans people?
I won't waste this threads time by dragging it to some trans discourse, so just quickly gonna go over this.
As NotInventedHere explains, the joke is a mocking of trans people "hahaha how dare they think that gender is a social construct(which yeah, it is, means it was made by society, ofc gender exists), like you can't be X if you weren't born it! Humans can't be attack helicopters or robots!" but also esp nonbinary people for not existing in the gender binary, thus being seen as abberant.
It's a meme made by Anti-SoJuWa's, who often seem to get triggered by trans people existing in media, or gay people existing in media, or really just anyone who's not a cishet white dude. Often yelling "But why are they X?????" like that one interviewer from the infamous "why are you gae" meme, and I can't describe how many times I've heard dumbasses like Steven Crowder use the meme to shit on a trans person.
It's a meme made by Anti-SoJuWa's, who often seem to get triggered by trans people existing in media, or gay people existing in media, or really just anyone who's not a cishet white dude. Often yelling "But why are they X?????" like that one interviewer from the infamous "why are you gae" meme, and I can't describe how many times I've heard dumbasses like Steven Crowder use the meme to shit on a trans person.
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Dragna
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Huuuuh, I really only put that there to add some levity to my post, that's it. If it's really offensive or in bad taste please tell me and I will edit it out post haste. Because I really meant nothing with that comment.
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The Shallow
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It is very much in bad taste, thanks for being understanding
NotInventedHere
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It....
Yes. Yes, it's both offensive and also in bad taste, and it doesn't add any levity because it's not funny.
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huh, never actually heard about where the meme came from so thanks for that.
NotInventedHere
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Well, welcome to being one of today's ten thousand I guess. (Ten Thousand)
Thanks for not being a dick about it
Wasn't it a reaction to how people were becoming more open with what genders they identified as, plus a reaction to the perceived ridiculousness of the existence of 3+ genders? I remember it being a commonly accepted joke back in like 2016, where it wasn't really an attack against trans ppl and more a joke deriding extreme SJWs. Times has changed, so idk if it's still acceptable now
Anyway, really not relevant to the thread, so thread tax: what's the perk that people want to see the most next?
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As always, Miniaturization/Efficiency. Not because of the perk, or even to make fun of Armsmaster, but because of that "free" perk that comes with it.
Out of Context Problem = No More Fear of Simurgh and Contessa