Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

[Noctis]

Very interesting power. Though until we get to see in it proper action I'll reserve any comments.

Obviously I'm insinuating that he uses it during the battle against Leviathan. Man, it would be hilarious if cults and fanatics of Apeiron sprung up because they just got dosed in the face with what humanity calls Divinity.

Reminds me of how mortals in Danmachi instantly know when they're infront of a God. The divinity in their being simply makes mistaking them impossible.

The hypothesis people might come up with is thinking that Apeiron actually cracked the foundational aspect of powers, and he is, for all practical purposes, a Reality warper.

Which the less scientifically inclined would call a mortal God, which is funny because the actually scientifically inclined would have to agree with the analogy.

Also, good god, everytime he brings up Parian, I feel like someone's pulling teeth. This psychosis of his is not fun to read about.

 

[Sunshard]

Honestly, pretty sure this story is on some level a meditative exercise for the author.

Like a few other commentators, it feels right for me personally to squelch my uncharitable reflexive reaction to the story beat progress.

I've seen how the narratively seemingly incremental improvements hinted at here could help smooth further challenges ahead. This is how previous progress points have been used to my satisfaction later despite my reactions at the time.

Just another steady stride forwards on my favourite slow burn progression story. Even if I feel like I'm being narratively edged.

 

[HandleWithCare]

Tbh, I first I thought "not a nother naval gazing chapter" but it turned out rather enjoyable.

I am confused though: didn't he already have a power that made him see upgrades for any object or something? So basically the same as the attribute?

Also, I hope Sabah can have a chat with Garment and they can resolve the issue. I still feel sorry for her. (In the background though please! We don't need another Sabah chapter.)

 

[Jfan999]

Another point of irony, considering LordR had said "Sabah is basically out of the story" and yet we still have this issue taking up a large chunk of the chapter. I was expecting Sabah/Parian to not be mentioned for the rest of the story until basically a line or two closing off loose ends in the epilogue 10 real life years from now for us readers. Guess this issue is not going to be walked away, or be put on a bus and sent off for good.

Click to shrink...

author, please, drop it. you are bringing it up again, after writing this. please stop . i only wanted to write when i have something positive to say and im sorry, but please,stop it. just let it go. move on.

Click to shrink...

I think Lord would have moved on if everyone didn't complain about the last chapter not being satisfying. Turning the out of character WoG into in character exploration is good for everyone who didn't see his message after the backlash from the last chapter. I'm fairly certain we are actually done with this plot now.

 

[BelligerentGnu]

Huh. Wonder if Joe will keep the 'no second chance' policy when he understands what happened to Bonesaw more fully.

 

[Tiz Goldeneye]

Progress is important, but it's also difficult, frightening, and at times destructive. The drive for progress is a direct affront to people who are satisfied with the current state of affairs. It threatens a comfortable existence with an unknown change. It challenges and demeans the accomplishments of those who worked to achieve the present equilibrium. The capacity for improvement exposes flaws and failings of what currently exists."

Aisha nodded. "People don't like change, even when you're trying to make things better." Her voice was slightly bitter. "It's easier to pretend that you're selfish, or ignorant, or actively trying to mess things up than admit there's anything that needs fixing in the first place."

Click to shrink...

I always enjoy these character bits. So we know what everyone is doing tonight, does anyone have an up to date schedule? The S9 engagement keeps being pushed back by curses/incompetency and Joe needs to visit Boston for bomb defusal and negotiation, plus he was going to visit Newfoundland in the near future to investigate Dragon, I just don't know when anything is happening.

 

[DeusVult]

Huh. Wonder if Joe will keep the 'no second chance' policy when he understands what happened to Bonesaw more fully.

Click to shrink...

Has already been discussed, and the answer is "yes". What Bonesaw did is beyond unforgivable, and until Contessa mindwhammies her she never so much as hints being interested in turning over on a new leaf.

Furthermore, for him killing someone is more like putting them into a time-out corner.

 

[goku90504]

Hints of another life, details that could be discerned for the items I'd received or certain features of my abilities.

Click to shrink...

from?

"It is literally a shining city on a hill." Tetra said. "Well, and expansive plateau, but from the ground it looks very impressive."

Click to shrink...

an?

"Using his Attribute on various outfits." I explained, showing Aishe the effect of manifested progress on some of Garment's designs.

Click to shrink...

Aisha

"Hint from my passenger. Don't know if it'll pan out, and they might not even bother with that, but it'll be interesting to seek."

Click to shrink...

see?

 

[Nimeroni]

I am confused though: didn't he already have a power that made him see upgrades for any object or something? So basically the same as the attribute?

Click to shrink...

Yes, but it's a lot slower and Joe have to carry the upgrades himself. On the flip side, upgrading it manually is permanent, while his attribute upgrade is temporary.

Huh. Wonder if Joe will keep the 'no second chance' policy when he understands what happened to Bonesaw more fully.

Click to shrink...

Yes.

You have to remember Joe is living in Worm. For him, the S9 is a horrible force of nature that killed millions. I very much doubt he will pull his punch regardless of the reasons behind the murderhobos actions.

Also sparring Bonesaw would turn the entire world against Apeiron.

 

[BelligerentGnu]

Has already been discussed, and the answer is "yes". What Bonesaw did is beyond unforgivable, and until Contessa mindwhammies her she never so much as hints being interested in turning over on a new leaf.

Furthermore, for him killing someone is more like putting them into a time-out corner.

Click to shrink...

Eh, I'm of the firm position that you can't assign moral responsibility to a six-year-old (which is the last time she had social contact with a non-serial killer) and Joe is more than capable of mind-whammying in a similar fashion.

 

[goku90504]

Has already been discussed, and the answer is "yes". What Bonesaw did is beyond unforgivable, and until Contessa mindwhammies her she never so much as hints being interested in turning over on a new leaf.

Click to shrink...

Though how much of Bonesaw's actions is she responsible for? and how much is Jack Slash? is his power blaster/thinker or blaster/master?

 

[Vysirez]

So I want to say this isn't really intended to be critical. We haven't had a large power based info dump in quite a while. I have no complaints about this chapter really. I just wanted to note something I found amusing, and I guess ask a bit of a question.

First is that I find the last couple chapter titles amusing. Last chapter was called Catharsis, but I can't really see anything cathartic in it. It's not cathartic for me as a reader, I didn't really see anything in the chapter that was cathartic for the characters. Just don't really see it. Then there is this chapter, titled Progress, in which there is basically zero actual story progress. I know the title is referring to the new Demi-god Aspect, but after the title and results last chapter, this just stuck out at me. I find it amusing.

So next bit is a bit of a question. I'm not trying to bring up any of the past arguments. In this chapter I can almost hear Lord's voice when Joe talks about not wanting to deal with the Parian/Sabah situation. I agree, it's done, we are moving past it. So my question/request is why was it even in the story. The fashion event leads to several plot hooks, so that serves a few purposes. But having Joe run into Sabah, and the event afterwords, seems to have no purpose in the story. There is no character development, Joe didn't want to deal with it before, and that is how he's handling it now. Nothing changed for Joe. Garment and Survey and Tetra will have some small future involvement, but it's pretty clearly going to be off screen and not impact the story at all. So I don't get why Joe even ran into Sabah. I know a lot of us were somewhat looking forward to the Sabah/Parian reveal and reactions, but that didn't happen, and isn't going to happen as far as I can tell. So I guess I'm just confused. Was there something I'm missing, or was this just a writing mistake. Which is fine, it's a giant story, and there are going to be writing/story/plot issues from time to time. Things that seemed good in concept that don't play out. I'm just trying to figure out if this is one of those things, or if there is some character development I'm missing.

 

[DeusVult]

Eh, I'm of the firm position that you can't assign moral responsibility to a six-year-old (which is the last time she had social contact with a non-serial killer) and Joe is more than capable of mind-whammying in a similar fashion.

Click to shrink...

Joe is a native of Worm. To him, Bonesaw is a monster who has slaughtered tens of thousands of people, and those are the lucky ones. Even age can only mitigate actions to a certain degree.

Furthermore, brainwashing someone into becoming a better person is its own can of worms and not something Joe would be ever willing to do.

Though how much of Bonesaw's actions is she responsible for? and how much is Jack Slash? is his power blaster/thinker or blaster/master?

Click to shrink...

Look, first you gotta keep in mind that Jack's power got retroactively boosted by Wildbow into him just flat out winning against everyone because people called him out on his shit, which makes zero sense as he gets beaten in canon.

So, I'm ignoring that shit, and purely going by how his power was initially presented.

And that is that he has a gut feeling which helps him a bit, but ultimately all the shit he does is his own. He may instinctively know which buttons to go for, but in the end pressing said buttons in the right way is up to him. So he's no more a Master than Tattletail is.

 

[famfrit]

Obviously I'm insinuating that he uses it during the battle against Leviathan. Man, it would be hilarious if cults and fanatics of Apeiron sprung up because they just got dosed in the face with what humanity calls Divinity.

Click to shrink...

Unless he fights scion very soon he won't need it much less against Levi who is the weakest and easiest to counter endbringer due to it's toolkit being physical atks and water stuff. Way back when he saved Weld he had the water controlling swords, give those to multiple forge members and probably stealthily deployed duplicates and all of Levi's water abilities can be shut down which limits it a lot more than you'd think because of how it mainly perceives the world through water and probably also removes the effects of making everyone go through long fight in heavy rain.

That alone would lead to Levi getting stomped but if it's not enough then per wog Tybalt as soon as he was rolled could have stalemated Levi naked. Then factor in the effects of getting his equipment, Joe upgrading his equipment and making him more, him getting more perks and all the other boosts like rwby aura he's gotten and Levi really doesn't stand a chance. So unless lord throws a curveball and makes it one of those fics where endbringers are a lot stronger including hiding multiple abilities despite wildbow's wog they aren't or switches up the atk order so they face Behemoth I wouldn't expect a challenge from it.

Tbh, I first I thought "not a nother naval gazing chapter" but it turned out rather enjoyable.

I am confused though: didn't he already have a power that made him see upgrades for any object or something? So basically the same as the attribute?

Click to shrink...

I do agree it was enjoyable but also a bit worrying in the sense that there were 200 points available going into it because there were 800 when the 600 was rolled and a missed roll during it so we're right back to the next roll being with 600.

He has the psychic power feel it out which basically let's him feel out upgrade paths for items which is harder the more upgraded something is as there's less room to improve it so it takes longer. The attribute though basically let's him manifest something from further along an upgrade path and then examine it to determine how it's better so it's quicker and he seems to get more out of it plus the manifested improved item can also be used.

 

[BelligerentGnu]

Furthermore, brainwashing someone into becoming a better person is its own can of worms and not something Joe would be ever willing to do.

Click to shrink...

No, but perhaps deleting six years worth of memories? It would have the same effect.

I do think that age mitigates all things, when it's low enough. Six year olds are still learning that sharing is a good thing.

That said, I do think the view you talk about is understandable, even if wrong, and I don't want to derail the thread over it. Just mentioned it because Joe has the power to pull off a reset, so it's a relevant possibility.

 

[Spidey_phd]

I always enjoy these character bits. So we know what everyone is doing tonight, does anyone have an up to date schedule? The S9 engagement keeps being pushed back by curses/incompetency and Joe needs to visit Boston for bomb defusal and negotiation, plus he was going to visit Newfoundland in the near future to investigate Dragon, I just don't know when anything is happening.

Click to shrink...

LordR has been careful to keep Joe in Brockton so far. I predict that it will be an offscreen duplicate who will travel to Boston, Newfoundland, Canberra, etc.

Fleet is going to be bringing Wolves to Rachel.

Click to shrink...

I want to know how he is going to do this. I know there are probably over a dozen different ways he can but how is he going to do so?

Fleet is going to be taking two standard wild wolves, domesticate and train them to be mounts, have Rachel use her power on them, then ride them around through an inhabited urban area. (Parkour!)

So simple accelerated conditioning? Insert some form of control chip? Bioengineering project to create the perfect wolf-steeds then leave them with Rachel as a gift?

---

Regent: How did the 'riding lesson' go?

Rachel: Watch, where is the nearest jewelry store?

Regent: What?

Rachel: Watch, what kind of engagement rings do men like?

Regent: What!?

 

[TerraBull]

A question? Progress works on things in workshop. Even the basic Pinto? Without touching it? The other bodies of Robo Unicorn or the Cybertronian one? Does Kerbal technology Progress or Basic Washu Super Tech?

 

[Nimeroni]

Unless he fights scion very soon he won't need it much less against Levi who is the weakest and easiest to counter endbringer due to it's toolkit being physical atks and water stuff. Way back when he saved Weld he had the water controlling swords, give those to multiple forge members and probably stealthily deployed duplicates and all of Levi's water abilities can be shut down which limits it a lot more than you'd think because of how it mainly perceives the world through water and probably also removes the effects of making everyone go through long fight in heavy rain.

Click to shrink...

No no no, you're not thinking big enough.

Joe is going to steal Poseidon trident in his temple in Greece ("we could have gifted it to you" "no, the stealing part is important. Can you install laser defence in the hallway and play heist music ?"), then craft a water controlling superweapon with it, and use it to crush Levi under the waves.

Because it's not about killing Leviathan, it's about sending a message.

 

[Slentoru]

Huh. Wonder if Joe will keep the 'no second chance' policy when he understands what happened to Bonesaw more fully.

Click to shrink...

Worth noting that it is less "no second chances" policy and more "you're at the end of the very long list" policy. He's planing to jar S9's souls and decide on their second chances only after he helped their victims and dealt with most problems in the world. Effectively they will be helped, eventually, but not before helping the rest of the world.

Eh, I'm of the firm position that you can't assign moral responsibility to a six-year-old (which is the last time she had social contact with a non-serial killer) and Joe is more than capable of mind-whammying in a similar fashion.

Click to shrink...

Ask yourself a question, in the situation where you can help the victims of Bonesaw to get their normal lives back, and help Riley to get her life back, who will you help first? We know what Joe's answer is - victims first, every time. So until there are no more victims to help, Riley will have to wait. You could argue that he can help Riley and victims at the same time, but that way he will be helping Riley before helping some of her victims, and he vocally against the idea:

"And if things had gone wrong, intent wouldn't have mattered. You can't dismiss the victims suffering in favor of the situation of the person who caused it."

"Yeah." She said, "I just didn't want to think we were going to be cutting breaks to utter bastards because of a sob story and the hope they might be able to make 'progress'."

I nodded. "A lot of the time, this stuff isn't about punishment or justice or redemption. It's about acknowledging that what happened to someone was wrong, and acknowledging that the person responsible needs to be held accountable."

And I had a particular group of bastards that were going to be held very accountable for their actions. To do any less would be an insult to every life they had destroyed in their meaningless lives.

Click to shrink...

You argue that Riley should not be held accountable for Bonesaw unlike Jack, but for Joe it just means that she slightly higher on the list than Jacob. Still below all the victims.

On a related note, why nobody defending Crawler? The poor chap was basically cursed by his power into becoming a monster, with his mind probably altered no less than his body, but no one questions how much he was accountable for his actions. Is he not cute enough? His power really needs to recognize pretty privilege as the great defensive mechanism that it is. Learn from squirrels - they just fluffier rats, and most people love them.

 

[MDK]

I'm a guy, but even I feel this so much. Joe, tell us your secrets. Why are even men's clothing losing pockets at this point?

Click to shrink...

'Cause idiots actually buy garbage like that.
And if someone (male or female) knowingly buys/wears clothing without pockets they automatically give up the right to complain about the lack of pockets.

Levi who is the weakest and easiest to counter endbringer due to it's toolkit being physical atks and water stuff.

Click to shrink...

Calling something that can sense and manipulate water on a planetary scale, including moving that water out of any container (oceans, lakes, ponds, pipes, bottles, living organisms ... ) if it stops sandbagging weak is just wrong.

On a related note, why nobody defending Crawler? The poor chap was basically cursed by his power into becoming a monster, with his mind probably altered no less than his body, but no one questions how much he was accountable for his actions. Is he not cute enough? His power really needs to recognize pretty privilege as the great defensive mechanism that it is. Learn from squirrels - they just fluffier rats, and most people love them.

Click to shrink...

Lack of backstory. We simply don't know enough about Ned before his trigger to look past what he has become. Add to that a bit of (unconscious) kink shaming for his masochistic tendencies and here we are.
It doesn't help that quite a few fan-fics portray him as a not particularly nice chap even before his trigger.

 

[AntaeusTheGiant]

Well, some people are complaining about the lack of storyline progression, but for some of us, the whole point of the story is the explanations of and interactions between the ever-increasing number of powers, and LordR kindly sometimes indulges us. This was a perk I have been waiting for for awhile, and was quite happy to see in discussed in depth. And yes, the ruling powers in Lord of Light would have been most displeased with a nascent Demigod of Progress, esp. coming as it did after the 1st war and before the 2nd. Since his memories get fuzzy at that point, I'm guessing there was some sort of culling that occurred. Reminds me of a character we see briefly at the beginning of the story. He was a piano player, old enough that he was able to recall the earlier days of the planet's settlement. But, since pianos did not fit into the motif the rulers of the world had chosen, he was forever stuck in the body of a 14 year old stableboy.

 

[Nimeroni]

And if someone (male or female) knowingly buys/wears clothing without pockets they automatically give up the right to complain about the lack of pockets.

Click to shrink...

To be fair to the ladies, they don't have a lot of (female) clothings with pockets available. A lot of my female friends like to wear male/unisex clothing (like jeans) for the pockets.

 

[Lambeard]

I wonder what the Attribute coud do applied to the glove of the east or Garment.

Also, I wonder if Joe's facility with these powers is a result of their being in the CF or if they're being enhanced by the power that increases power based on how inhuman or monstrous one is. Because technical godhood is pretty monstrous.

 

[Blaflaix]

"She already has three reports ready." Tetra explained. "Including a truncated summary that she recommends you review."

Click to shrink...

Now I'm imagining Survey making a bunch of reports, then organizing them by relevancy.

"Useless, useless, useful but nobody will read it…"

 

[Slentoru]

Since his memories get fuzzy at that point, I'm guessing there was some sort of culling that occurred.

Click to shrink...

Dunno, my bets on that there are no more memories, simply becouse there are no perks related to Joe's life after becoming demigod. Similarly to how he doesn't remember his life as Transformer in Great War simply becouse his perk so far only related to knowledge before it. I'm sure that if there was some capstone that would make Joe a fully realized god, we would learn more about adventures of God of Progress, similarly to how we will learn more about Apeiron Prime whenever "Matrix of Leadership" comes around.

Honestly, maybe I just don't want to believe that "gods" managed to get on top of this self-made nemesis in any capacity, much less any sort of culling. They styled themselves as Hindu, they should've learned what Karma is.