Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

I have a question. Has this thread already covered why Garment isn't using sign language? She's very expressive with her gestures and sign language is gestures. But maybe Garment would have the same issue with sign language that she does with typing. Sign language would at least be faster to say simple one words rather than typing them, right?
 
I have a question. Has this thread already covered why Garment isn't using sign language? She's very expressive with her gestures and sign language is gestures. But maybe Garment would have the same issue with sign language that she does with typing. Sign language would at least be faster to say simple one words rather than typing them, right?
It's because Garment does have a language, and it's Fashion. It just so happens that not everyone can understand her language and Garment doesn't feel the urge to change any of this.
 
I have a question. Has this thread already covered why Garment isn't using sign language? She's very expressive with her gestures and sign language is gestures. But maybe Garment would have the same issue with sign language that she does with typing. Sign language would at least be faster to say simple one words rather than typing them, right?
Like readerdreamer said, she communicates in fashion. Think like Victorian flower codes, but more complicated, based on subconscious assumptions of people based on clothing which everybody does, historical context and the influence on modern trends which makes Aisha the second best at communicating due to her experience and perceptiveness. For sign language, as with typing she fundamentally lacks interest in doing, bland and unpleasant. She probably has full Synesthesia as well. Like when a blind man describes colours, or someone deaf describing sounds. She has her own way of experiencing the world as clothing, accesories and adjecent aethsthetics, expressed through her element of Light, the freest, most vibrant and fastest element refracting into uncountable beams.

Anyway think of it as her own sign language, since there are so many, one more would help maintain privacy.
 
I have a question. Has this thread already covered why Garment isn't using sign language?
Garment does know sign language, and even use it as a... signature... Oh Gods, it's been years and I only now got the joke:
39 Set Up - Addendum Kenta said:
A version of her label, only with the hands closed except for the index finger and thumb pointing out on each hand, angled left and right.

It was someone's idea of a joke. The American Sign Language symbol for the letter G, repeated twice. Garment Gloves.

Anyway, she knows sight language, but about as good with it as with texting. I see I got nothing else to add, without repeating what already was said above, so I will just go sulk about years of missing that glorious pun.

Edit: Oh, also, texting still faster for Garment becouse she had Survey act as auto complete, so she didn't have to spell out whole word. Although all of this is a mute point as nowadays she just has Aisha or Delphine as on hand translators.
 
Last edited:
Garment does know sign language, and even use it as a... signature... Oh Gods, it's been years and I only now got the joke:
Exactly, since Garment is still Fiat-backed, are there any ways to mirror her onto the duplicates afterwards? Tetra's got the whole instanteous teleportation and mass/volume.
 
Exactly, since Garment is still Fiat-backed, are there any ways to mirror her onto the duplicates afterwards? Tetra's got the whole instanteous teleportation and mass/volume.
Wha? I'm afraid you either misquoted, or have to be a bit clearer, I have no idea what you're trying to say or how it's connected to what you quoted.
 
Wha? I'm afraid you either misquoted, or have to be a bit clearer, I have no idea what you're trying to say or how it's connected to what you quoted.
Sorry, lost my train of thought there. I meant I agreed with your statement about Delphine or Aisha auto-filling her responses. The second part was meant to be separate about how Garment is a fiat-backed unique item so can't be duplicated by the potion.
 
Just that she's holding a variety of double standards, microaggresions and somewhat 19th century racial view. Although it would be bad to orphan both Theo and Aster so I was suggesting some denazification tech or use his propoganda/supervillain powers to outvillain them.
Honestly, there's not all that much direct evidence in the Tammi PoV that she holds any racist views. Here's a typical quote:

When she triggered, when she broke out and got away from that filth things were different.

...where it's ambiguous (probably deliberately) whether the "filth" in question was her abusers or the abuse itself, and in the former case whether the slur was about their races or their behavior.

Similarly, she talks about the ABB in very negative terms but in response to very real horror, and generally limited to the organization (that just happens to be 100% Asian) rather than Asians in general, like so:
The ABB was broken, probably for good. Their fronts had been torn down earlier in the week and now it seemed Apeiron had routed out the rest of their infection.
Every horrific act perpetrated under Lung exposed to the world. Crimes that went beyond the assumed drugs, gambling, and prostitution. Human trafficking in particular jumped out, but the depth and breadth of the rest of it was shocking for anyone who didn't already know what the Asians were capable of.

Through both interludes, there is only one thought out of her that actually crosses that line, and even then it seems she's playing things up for Ashley.
"I can see that." Damsel said, glancing towards the balcony. "Though I wonder if there'll be anything left of their forces after what Apeiron's managed."

"The Empire will be doing what they can." Rune emphasized. "But the remnants of the ABB will dig in like rats. It's more than just the people with bombs in their head. There was a whole community holding them up."

With all that said, she makes several references to a never explicitly specified "the cause", and in the latest interlude her inner monologue says she's not really on board with it but knows better than to say so. That indicates she's subject to cult-style underhanded retention practices, rather than racism per se. (Her statements and behavior in Ward support this)
 
Honestly, there's not all that much direct evidence in the Tammi PoV that she holds any racist views.
Great post, but the "orphan both Theo and Aster" part suggest the one you're quoting was talking about Purity.

Also, I wouldn't be so dismissive about Tammy thinking "what the Asians were capable of", focusing on race instead of gang affiliation. While she doesn't believe in the ideology, growing up surrounded by it clearly shaped her mind to a degree. At least she is smarter than Purity and capable of retrospection and dealing with her own issues instead of going full tilt into delusions.

Also, mention of Ward reminded me of one WoG I kept forgetting to share, so here:
The Goddess was at least Triumvirate level (individual members, not the three of them working together) though her mind control power put her into a different class. Incidentally, I kind of hate the name Goddess for her. Prior to Ward the fans referred to her as the Blue Empress, which strikes me as much more evocative and appropriate. I actually want her to show up in this fic just so that Joe "I'm seriously not a god, please stop worshiping me" can meet someone who unironically refers to herself as "Goddess". I have the amusing image of the entire Celestial Forge aggressively refusing to use that name for her, coming up with increasingly ridiculous and insulting alternatives as time goes on.

Goddess appearing in the fic is a rare sight to behold. Goddess getting laughed at for a pretentious name is truly a treat to anticipate. (Seriously, does anybody know a fic where Goddess appears? I got zero in my tally.)
 
The second part was meant to be separate about how Garment is a fiat-backed unique item so can't be duplicated by the potion.
Fiat backed items can be duplicated, Joe duplicated the Alchemy Machine after all.

Given that Tetra also can't be duplicated, I am more of the opinion that living beings can't be duplicated, even if they also count as objects.
 
Except the Avid Glove can be duplicated. It's honestly beyond me.. maybe it's because the Avid Glove wants to be duplicated? Or maybe it does so on it's own and just let's people assume it's the potion? Who knows when it comes to cute eldritch horrors?

It definately counts as living, though, according to Regent's powers, when several other forge members did not....

Does anyone know if the Kinsect can be duplicated?
 
Last edited:
Disappointed to see the Nazis yet again not getting their faces punched.

Edit: Kayden, Kayden, dear, honey, wtf are you doing? When did you suffer brain rot?
She's a Nazi. Fascism is a philosophy that requires a certain level of disconnect from reality. The enemy must be at once both strong and weak. Nazis tend to enjoy an unreasonable level of tolerance from law enforcement, and Purity might have slotted in the Celestial Forge under the mental category of law enforcement in this context.
 
One of the disks was specifically stated to have the flaky alchemy marks on it and as I already said at least 2 were still around when Survey appeared tho it may have been 3.
They did have some marks on them:
Victor had supplied four massive stone platforms, each perfectly matched in a way that eased the burden on her power while also being precisely designed and intricately ornamented. They looked like solid stone, but it was probably some complicated concrete mix that he had pierced together from the skills of a dozen experts. It made a lot more sense to assume he had filled up a few molds than actually carved them himself out of solid basalt. Plus, carving wouldn't have created that weird flakey texture that marred one of the disks. It was probably another aspect of the casting process or some feature of whatever mix of cement was required to make them look like black volcanic stone.

More of Victor's insufferable stolen genius had been evident in the design. The platforms were disks about a foot thick and five feet across. They each weighed close to a ton and the stack had required a flatbed to transport them to the staging area. The surface had subtle iconography that gave them enough texture and indentations to provide grip and a stable surface, even when traveling at high speeds.
Was it true that it was specifically alchemy markings on them? I did a quick check ctrl-f on 'alch' but didn't find anything. Maybe it was an error from Roust since its no longer there and so many have commented on it? I have also a memory of Tammi commenting on alchemy texture.

Anyway, I don't find alchemy in the text and since Alchemy doesn't leave a trail unless one takes unnatural structures into account; it's unlikely either Survey or Apeiron caught it since Victor presumably created those platforms in secret. That they only saw the finished products and those are indistinguishable from normal.
 
Rune is a teenager hanging out with a bad crowd, not by her own choice but by that of her legal guardians, and getting pulled into their misdeeds.
Actually, no. From her first interlude, chapter 42.1:
It reminded her too much of when she had run away, leaving her parents and going back to the clans. Well, not 'back'. The clans had never been a presence in her life, just this looming thing in the past that her mom and dad were oh so proud of themselves for leaving behind. Constantly self-aggrandizing about how they had broken away and were better people now, how they were saving her from that life. Making sure it was clear how every hardship was some shared penance.

That had really been what drove her back to the clans. Her parents had kept all the worst parts while dropping everything else. To call them controlling didn't even come close. Every aspect of her life was managed, agonized over, curated. She couldn't have any kind of existence beyond them, all for fear that she would fall back into what they were so proud to get away from.
So she went back to the neo-nazis only because of a fit of teenage rebellion, got a bunch of good "perks":
Every little step away from what her parents had allowed, her first beer, getting on stage, committing to the cause, it had made her feel special.
Then was sent in a mission, failed and went to juvie where she triggered.
I'm sorry but it seems like she dug her own grave all by herself, having controling parents can give her some pity points but not nearly enough.
 
Last edited:
I wonder if a Body Mod Pod can give Garment a human body? Would she want one?
I would assume not, but maybe some hyper-realistic Aozaki style indistinguishable from human puppets combined with the droid tech.

Could provide a legitimate excuse for Apeiron associations.
So everyone is basically thinking "well damn thought Survey was just the Thinker of the group, but hot damn she's actually a real life Valkyrie."
Valkyries can be smart as well. If she's the thinker what are the actual strong ones are. Tybalt's unparalleled abilities in this world in matters of combat can finally shine
Fiat backed items can be duplicated, Joe duplicated the Alchemy Machine after all.

Given that Tetra also can't be duplicated, I am more of the opinion that living beings can't be duplicated, even if they also count as objects.
Maybe in regards to being both an object and a piece of clothing. What's the current rating of the Fashion durability shin guard which also extends to Garment.
 
NGL, I've lost track of where Joe's tech is now. I think he's supposed to be immune to annihilators now but does that apply across the board now? I assume so, cause Survey hardly seemed bothered.

Joe cannot be killed due to a combination of "Joe's weapon cannot be physically damaged", "his boots count as both a weapon and a piece of clothing", "Joe's resistance to any type of damage is equal to the best resistance of any of his cloths". So as long as he wear his boots, he cannot be damaged.

However this is tied to his Fashion perk and cannot be transfered to his teamate. So yes, in theory Survey could be damaged by Damsel annihilator power.

The reason why Survey is not particularly concerned by DoD's power is... well, Survey can dodge, teleport, instantly splat DoD, and as an XCOM 2 psi operative she have an ability called Sustain which prevent an instant death by putting her into stasis.

So, uh, yeah, Damsel was boned.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top