Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

The crater, being the result of the momentum of all that Sting mass immediately coming to a stop upon contact with a truly invulnerable object.
Unfortunately, unless much of that energy is bled out into other dimensions, it will still leave craters worse than the Tsar bomb's theoretical maximum yield.
This is why Joe needs a time machine - not to protect himself, but to prevent collateral damage.
Reminds me of Superman really.
At this point the comparison is reaching one to one - where the story isn't really about "will superman succeed?" but rather "how will superman succeed?" and "what cost or complication will come with success?"

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An aside:
I want to post the gif of superman not even reacting to receiving a shot to the eye at point blank range, but don't know if its against the rules and don't want to increase visual pollution.

"I feel fear, for the last time."
- Jon Otterman's internal monologue, one second before he is disintegrated and begins reassembling himself as Dr. Manhattan

- Watchmen
 
Hold on. If Armsthrift makes it so that defensive items that are still considered weapons can't break, then material durability does not matter anymore. There are tons of materials that have high as fuck stats in other areas but are never considered due to being fragile. This perk bypasses those restrictions.

Further weaponized defense items should just be focused on force dispersal or kinetic redirection since it's not like they'll break anyway.
Making a weapon or two out of star-charged Burstone would probably be a decent idea; one wouldn't think that using a unstable bottomless battery as a weapon would be a good idea but here we are.
Holy shit they're perfect for each other. I never put it together.


Wouldn't that... Damage the surroundings a little too much? Mayhaps... Crack the planet? This is the Shards anti other Shards weapon were talking about, it should be more than enough to be a planet buster. A 'crater' is probably very much underselling it
Planets are kind of disposable. Even with just in canon Worm; they should be able to pull off a few terraforming effects all on their own. With Joe helping along it should be outright easy.
Not if he uses the Planet as a weapon. Which he can do with enough Mantra.
I guess that if he grabbed the planet by a space-elevator it would kind of be a flail...Actually if he put a rocket onto that sucker he'd have a cable-handled rocket-hammer.
 
It's a mixture of amusing and incredible to see a fiat-backed destruction nullification effect applied to Joe through just three perks synergizing. There are probably a couple other combinations that would result in some more exciting defenses, but Joe can essentially now bull through anything anyone sends at him.

Otherwise unblockable attacks will still damage him, but with the level of healing he possesses, that's pretty much a moot point. He could probably walk up to Zion, eat Stilling to the face, and pop out of the crater with just a massive sunburn. Hell, he could probably survive planetary detonation. Nobody but him can survive those though, so he's not about to go throw down with the Warrior.

I imagine that the E88 are going to be quite put out when the annihilator they've bent over backwards for turns out to do almost jack shit in the inevitable event they deploy her against Joe. I also have a funny image of Ashley coming down with a massive crush on the one person she's met capable of walking off her destructo-beams.
 
I imagine that the E88 are going to be quite put out when the annihilator they've bent over backwards for turns out to do almost jack shit in the inevitable event they deploy her against Joe. I also have a funny image of Ashley coming down with a massive crush on the one person she's met capable of walking off her destructo-beams.
The sad thing is it's going to take a while for anyone to figure out, because you have to hit the damn zipping Steelmoney first.
 
I imagine that the E88 are going to be quite put out when the annihilator they've bent over backwards for turns out to do almost jack shit in the inevitable event they deploy her against Joe. I also have a funny image of Ashley coming down with a massive crush on the one person she's met capable of walking off her destructo-beams.
I love this and it 100% makes sense from an in universe perspective. He's the 3 day old technology guy after all. he went from grenades almost killing him to his first live appearance where Leet could hurt him with his SF move, to no selling U&L's robots the next time cameras where on him and anything that wasn't annihilation attacks and then the ungodly hour happened and he almost got smoked by Marsh, live on air again.

Since then he hasn't been in a serious fight so of course mr 3 day old technology just...you know corrected the inconvenience the annihilator attacks caused him last time. The fact that it MAKES SENSE for him to do that in universe because he is who he is, that's hilarious

edit the 3 day old tech meme is the best thing that has come out of this story, I want to quote it IRL soon even if no one is gonna get it

edit 2
The sad thing is it's going to take a while for anyone to figure out, because you have to hit the damn zipping Steelmoney first.

yeah good luck hitting the super car that fleet is driving with survey scanning everything around them in a sneak attack or ambush


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQJquSbnaBE


this is what's gonna happen but driving in like ´500mph past them but instead of wiper fluid it'll be homing globs of plasma
 
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It's rather amusing that Armsthrift, the most basic skill of one of the lower tier classes in FE Awakening would be worth so much. Let it not be said that the ability to completely prevent weapon durability from being reduced isn't already useful enough before all the other crazy stuff Jo can do gets tacked on. However, the weakness I can see is that the skill would only come into effect for Jo personally, not anyone else. Although, since it is a 'skill' I wonder if it's possible to 'Teach' it to another person?
 
I imagine that the E88 are going to be quite put out when the annihilator they've bent over backwards for turns out to do almost jack shit in the inevitable event they deploy her against Joe. I also have a funny image of Ashley coming down with a massive crush on the one person she's met capable of walking off her destructo-beams.
The funny thing is that, remember - Joe's Avoidance semblance, while ineffective against Sting, works perfectly well against Damsel's power according to WoG. So even before this, he could just decide to ignore Damsel, walk up to Kaiser and smack him in the face, and they wouldn't be able to do anything about it. Even as Damsel starts firing off blasts at him, he won't even notice the holes in the floor as he walks over them like they aren't there.
 
Duplicate: (fake weepy-eyes) "Our boy is growing up so fast. It seems like just yesterday he drove his first motorcycle."

"Just remember to wear protection. 10 days old is a bit young to get a child of your own."
"Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad !"

mundane stuff like milkshakes or molten lava
Joe, one of those things is not like the other one.

Yeah, the milkshake is much more dangerous. Joe previously mentioned that it contains enough calories to kill anything short of a god.
 
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Armsthrift (Fire Emblem: Awakening) 400:
Your weapons just don't seem to break and you know how to care for them well. Even immensely fragile things are unlikely to break in your care. Guns won't jam and swords never lose their edge.

I thought this was more a hyperbolic statement rather than actually meaning the weapons actually didn't break. Which is fine but it feels a bit inconsistent with other powers that could've synergised with Fashion. For example, Built to Last which states that creations are now nigh-impervious to time, which I imagine would've been incredibly helpful for the duplicates and defence against Bakuda's bombs if applied in this fashion.

Additionally, I know that Joe was under the impression that this would no-sell any physical attack but Armthrift in Fire Emblem effect description is "The durability of the user's weapon will not decrease when striking an enemy". In other Fire Emblem games it was possible to reduce durability of weapons in ways other than attacking. I can't imagine that Joe would've been as pleased if he could've been put in the ground from a surprise Sting.

I know this is all just a bit of bellyaching, but it just feels really cheap to have a power that says "don't seem to break" and "unlikely to break" completely blocking the most potent/efficient weapon that Zion has against Apeiron.
 
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I thought this was more a hyperbolic statement rather than actually meaning the weapons actually didn't break. Which is fine but it feels a bit inconsistent with other powers that could've synergised with Fashion. For example, Built to Last which states that creations are now nigh-impervious to time, which I imagine would've incredibly helpful for the duplicates and defence against Bakuda's bombs if applied in this fashion.

Additionally, I know that Joe was under the impression that this would no-sell any physical attack but Armthrift in Fire Emblem effect description is "The durability of the user's weapon will not decrease when striking an enemy". In other Fire Emblem games it was possible to reduce durability of weapons in ways other than attacking. I can't imagine that Joe would've been as pleased if he could've been put in the ground from a surprise Sting.

I know this is all just a bit of bellyaching, but it just feels really cheap to have a power that say "don't seem to break" and "unlikely to break" completely blocking the most potent/efficient weapon that Zion has against Apeiron.

It's not Armsthrift from Fire Emblem. It's the Armsthrift Perk from the FE Jumpdoc. Trying to square things there will just confuse you.

And saying they 'just don't break' is, indeed, a lot stronger than being 'nigh-invulnerable'. That's the whole point of the difference - it's NOT just unlikely to break, it's will not break.

The interpretation Lord seems to be going with is that the immensely fragile items part applies to items in general, with the 'weapons don't break' part being separate.
 
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Wouldn't that... Damage the surroundings a little too much? Mayhaps... Crack the planet? This is the Shards anti other Shards weapon were talking about, it should be more than enough to be a planet buster. A 'crater' is probably very much underselling it
It's worth noting that sting as the entities use it and sting as the hosts are allowed to aren't the same.

If Flechette shoots a sting crossbow bolt it doesn't turn into an infinite mass projectile, it uses dimensional nonsense to be in multiple places at once. The entities are bullshit, but if they could whip up enough mass to cover everything everywhere at once for arbitrary projectiles at the drop of a hat they wouldn't need to do any of the stuff they're doing in the story.

If it's not already planet destroying then there shouldn't be a huge environmental impact in any one spot.
 
Does he even actually need Fashion to be unbreakable, with martial arts from HSDK and Bloody Roar as well as Cyborg Hindu God Body shouldn't his body count as a weapon and be unbreakable?

Edit: also, Aura, is his aura now unbreakable?
Nah, just because you can use something as a weapon doesn't make it a weapon. Take for example a chair.
honestly, while the ship is amusing i'm more interested in how that will affect Fleet beyond the Dating thing.
Ridding is a step removed from Driving so I wonder how that will change/expand his focus.
Joe could also build stuff that normally counter momentum. The fact that he will still need to dig himself out of a crater after all of those anti-momentum enhancements and enchantments really says a lot about just what Sting could do, and it helps that Joe still does have an option of dodging to minimize the number of craters.
i think it's worth noting that nothing says that Sting (or other Annihilator effects) actually transmit momentum to the target(s).
It's not like Annihilator effects are delivering a payload onto something... If anything they should be closer to a crack in reality that teleports away whatever it "touches".
[edit] i think the worse possibility would be if the Annihilator effect behaved like a jet of water that would spray around Joe once it hits him.

Would Hindu God Body count as a weapon, because I think it should. That would mean that without any armour Joe would still be invincible.
Same reason his hands don't automatically count as "a weapon".
 
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Huh, reading that description, Armthrift seems to provide a lower tier invincibility than the 600 Minecraft perk with "unbreakable" Red Matter, considering that the weapons only "don't seem to break". Does that leave some ambiguity about seeming vs truely? Also, what about effects that phase through/ break through stuff, like Joes's god spear?

Edit: apparently, Armthrift prevent Sting from killing Joe, while Red Matter prevents Sting from even harming him. Cool!

That's because of how Armsthrift works in game it is one of the skills gained from hitting a certain lv in a class. Fire Emblem weapons aside from a few games like Fates and Warriors that did away with it and a few Legendary or blessed weapons have durability. This is expressed as x/y with more powerful weapons or those with extra traits like higher crit chance having less at the most extreme the glass weapons only have 3. Armsthrift is a skill that uses one of your stats which I think is luck to give a % chance to atk without lowering the count by 1 as it normallyy does on a hit. Obviously tho the jump buffed it.

I utterly love how complete and utter invincibility comes not from some fancy shmancy uber-powerful Jump, but from fucking Fire Emblem, a setting where the main characters cap off at city-block level at most.

Depends how you define main characters side stepping the several big threats that can summon or create conjured armies there are a few exceptions. In Echoes one of the enemy mages who is a boss and has a short series of side missions about taking them down makes a mirror that nearly wipes out an army, a few of the final bosses like Velezark and Anonkos have stuff that may take them to above that lv since there's stuff like their reality warping and Anonkos is noted to have destroyed a forest in his rage before.

The big one though is the goddesses of Radiant Dawn Ashera right after waking up while being weakened turns all but the very strongest people on the continent to stone with it being stated if she had have been woken up the other way it would have killed them instead, Yune also gets upset at one point and that alone causes a huge sandstorm and she reveals in the past she'd devastated the continent with storms and on top of that Ashera and Yune are each half of the goddess they used to be before splitting.

He might be unbreakable now, but that doesn't protect against everything. It alone wouldn't stop Bakuda from timestopping him, or canon Scrub from teleporting him to another Earth. Or being Mastered. He might have other abilities that are just as effective against some of these things, or allow him to work around the things he isn't immune to, but the Worm multiverse has the potential for a very broad array of detrimental effects to exist within it and Joe is still vulnerable to some of them.

Mastering is covered by mental fortress. Scrub can't teleport him what happens with Scrub is if Labyrinth taps another earth and he uses his power on the area while she's tapping it a permanent portal is created but it still has to be walked through there is no teleporting so Scrub would have to force him through it (he can't) and since it can't be closed stop him walking back through. Additionally since this could be potentially done with say doormaker it doesn't matter because if Joe gets access to a door including making one he can enter the workshop then use the link to switch the door it's tied to back to one on Bet.

The time warping effects also have to hit him Joe has extensive senses and invested in stuff to counter grenades and the like in general so Bakuda's aren't an issue because other than his very first patrol out he hasn't been hit by any and they have now lost the oni lee delivery method. On top of all that Joe's np allows instant field crafting with countercraft giving a bonus to countering effects that are targeting him and various other perks helping him come up with solutions if he even needs it since he has the dmc teleportation on top of apparition to the point he doesn't need the turn to do it so he could just teleport out or away.


Planets are kind of disposable. Even with just in canon Worm; they should be able to pull off a few terraforming effects all on their own. With Joe helping along it should be outright easy.

Highly debatable for canon worm given ward showed they abandoned Bet as a whole cause of the various power effects kicking around from scion and tinkertech failing. Even beyond that after like 2 years to rebuild they had just gotten the internet back and only had a few basic settlements outside of the megacity. The reason for this is while powers can help such as brutes carrying things and so on power generated materials tend to be inferior to the originals and decay quicker meaning they can't be used for construction.
 
It's not Armsthrift from Fire Emblem. It's the Armsthrift Perk from the FE Jumpdoc. Trying to square things there will just confuse you.

And saying they 'just don't break' is, indeed, a lot stronger than being 'nigh-invulnerable'. That's the whole point of the difference - it's NOT just unlikely to break, it's will not break.

The interpretation Lord seems to be going with is that the immensely fragile items part applies to items in general, with the 'weapons don't break' part being separate.

The description still says 'don't seem to break' in regards to weapons and 'unlikely to break' for fragile things in the jumpdoc. Which frankly sounds closer to physical nigh-invulnerability than actual invulnerability.

Good point about using FE jumpdoc power rather then intended function in game.
 
i think it's worth noting that nothing says that Sting (or other Annihilator effects) actually transmit momentum to the target(s).
It's not like Annihilator effects are delivering a payload onto something... If anything they should be closer to a crack in reality that teleports away whatever it "touches".
[edit] i think the worse possibility would be if the Annihilator effect behaved like a jet of water that would spray around Joe once it hits him.
It's from a WoG way back when LR first brought up the potential Armsthrift interaction. I believe it was brought up when a commenter went "Aren't some perks pretty useless, look at Armsthrift, that just makes his weapons more durable, doesn't he have plenty of stuff like that already? Why can't we just get rid of it?" and LordRoustabout basically responded "Funny you say that."

But yeah, basically Armsthrift + Fashion combination turns Joe into this ultimate shield to the Sting's ultimate spear. Normally, as Sting can't be stopped by anything, there's basically no physical interaction involved when Sting hits an object and punches through it like it isn't there. But as the combination won't allow Sting to punch through like usual, what happens instead is the full force of all the mass in the Sting attack delivers its momentum all at once. To quote LR, "Normally a Sting bolt would tear apart whatever it struck over the range of it's dimensions, but with Joe that wouldn't be possible, meaning you'd have a Newtonian collision involving an object with a universe worth of momentum behind it."
 
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Highly debatable for canon worm given ward showed they abandoned Bet as a whole cause of the various power effects kicking around from scion and tinkertech failing. Even beyond that after like 2 years to rebuild they had just gotten the internet back and only had a few basic settlements outside of the megacity. The reason for this is while powers can help such as brutes carrying things and so on power generated materials tend to be inferior to the originals and decay quicker meaning they can't be used for construction.
Nah.
 
How big of a fraction of c are we talking about?

While Joe would survive that, I can't say the same about the neighborhood.

It would clearly depend on the mass of the initial Sting projectile. But even as small projectiles, there's some truly stupendous outcomes as far as Worm calculations are concerned. Here's the WoG on why LordRoustabout stated that as far as this story goes, Sting can pierce Avalon for example. To say that Sting is a planet-killer is being literal, but again, it's worth noting - while Sting is capable of piercing magical protections due to it being "able to selectively ignore rules" and the magic-shard equivalence for this story, there's no rule that says Joe can't just magic up a charm that can block what is an equivalent of an entire universe's worth of momentum. And given Joe can literally make divine magic artifacts that also work on hypertechnology that can probably push impacts into other dimensions, it's entirely doable for him now.
 
I must admit, I'm a bit iffy about RachelxFleet.

She still is a teen while he has a full grown body.

He is also at most a year old. Which doesn't really matter the same way for AIs...which would make him adult again?

And even ignoring the potential squick here, she is still VERY maladjusted while he is NOT HUMAN.


On a complete side note, I still want Joe to adopt his own cadre of Tinkers, mainly just to seem them faint every time they enter a new room in his workshop :D

Which seques into Dragon. Why is he delaying helping her? Is he waiting for the Spiritron to fully power up?
 
Anti spiral is probably a worse enemy than Zion
I mean yes, Zion blows up planets, the Anti-Spiral will attack you with the Big Bang and the estimated amount of energy to kill them is infinity^11+1. As soon as Scion saw the energy outputs he would probably just run. The thing is with Jumpchain you can legitimately do anything, so by the time Joe has the full CF he will be able to win that fight.
While I enjoyed the chapter, it really felt like Alec was being excessively vague in order to preserve various plot points rather then because he wouldn't want talk about things. I thought the whole point of the call was for Alec to open up communications, but I felt like almost nothing was actually said.

The whole call felt like Alec was saying, "Heya ya know there is stuff and things, and Lisa and Brian have stuff and things", and Joe replies " Gotcha, thanks for clarifying that there was stuff going on, and people had things they are worried about. I hadn't realized" Then Alex says, "Taylor has stuff too, not sure what though, but definitely stuff, or maybe things" Which Joe then replies, "I knew she had things, or maybe stuff, don't worry about it."

All so that the continued misunderstandings and confusion can continue, and no actual communication happen. The only thing I saw communicated out of the call was that the undersides could call Joe's team if they wanted.
While I have an infinitely ongoing nitpick about Joe not being allowed to learn of the connection between Brian and Aisha for the sake of allowing Aisha character growth down the line, I don't think you are given the conversation enough credit. Alec wasn't calling Joe with the intention of telling him everything because he didn't want to be a snitch on his team, however he did recognize that they were spiraling out of control and needed some help.

Alec tries to demonstrate empathy for Lisa by telling Joe she is burning herself out on power usage for some grand plan, but Joe knew that from his phone call with her and reassures Alec that he is already working with her. Alec tries to demonstrate empathy for Rachael by telling Joe the team is mad at her, and it's creating tension, and Joe tells him he is aware of the issue. Alec tries to demonstrate empathy for Brian twofold by 1 trying to help Brian with his personal situation and 2 not breaking the unwritten rules to Joe, of which Joe says he is aware of the general situation and is willing to offer support if need be. Lastly, Alec tries to demonstrate empathy for Taylor by telling Joe that she is in over her head on a secret project, which Joe again says he is aware of. The thing about all of this, is even if Joe was aware of a lot of the previous paragraphs events vaugely this both gives him a second opinion, as well as validates them as concerns to both himself and Alex because both recognizes the other sees them as issues to be worked on.

Finally, and most importantly, Alec told Joe a few pieces of new information, which were important. That they had an in person meeting with their boss and that fact scared him, since it was a point of no return. Joe can easier help the team, and will probably be monitoring that situation remotely and be ready to intervene if Coil tries anything during the meeting. Secondly, he gave Joe a heads up that they were going to be stepping up, and suddenly, which while not a full warning that the group is going to fight the Teeth, does give Joe some amount of mental warning. Joe in turn informs Alec that his team is available to talk if needed, which will probably be important in the future.

In conclusion, while the quantity of information exchanged wasn't large, it had a lot of meaning as far as character growth and set up towards the future.
Anyway, good chapter if a bit low-key. Now looking forwards to his visiting the gym. Still think at least some people in the gym are well aware Joe is a Cape, and most likely Apeiron (the Enigmatic Artificer). I mean, Aisha picked up on it. Are we really meant to believe she was the smartest/most observant person at the gym?
The people at the gym do believe he is a cape, Aisha also believed he was a cape, she didn't know he was Apeiron until she followed him home. WoG is that the people at the gym have concocted a loose narrative along the lines of, "Tech based college dropout who wants to be relevant while tinkers are slowly becoming more active in the city and has unnaturally good handyman/mechanic skills whose car ran in the dead zone". Basically, all the other tinkers were fighting, Joe wanted to use his tech background to help, but couldn't since Tinkertech is too advanced for him and triggered himself. So he is now either a minor tinker or technology thinker hanging around the community center practicing on their stuff while starting his build up phase.
 
I think everyone is forgetting that an impact can still carry through a shield even if the sheild doesn't break. Of course, he has some pretty damn good materials and designs to work with at this point, but it should be noted that anything that could send him flying, while it might not break his skin, could possibly shake his organs around inside of his ribcage and skull, which isn't a hundred percent ideal.
 
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