Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

I mean, shouldn't it work? In worm as long as you create an accurate enough body for the shard to connect to it should work.
Hommunculi are not accurate copies (look at homunculi from both versions and tell me that most of them are "accurate" heck even most of their powers are born from innate instability of their existence, as it looks like homunculi in both shows are falling apart without philosopjers stones) and shards can copy only host memories and even then they are screwed and incomplete.


If Victor does actually know the exact composition of a human he might be able to pull it off. The Sciences and information of our world are vastly ahead of FMA. There was even a theory if Edwardsslightly changed some things he might have been able to bring back his mom.
In best scenario he would have made copy of moms body, in brotherhood, for his brother to occupy. While in older one it was plain impossible and homunculi were doomed from the start, and utterly reliant on the philosophers stones, this one would just look good from the start and die soon without them.

Poinr b: even now we still dont know all about the body and even miniscule details can ruin the process, and even now there are now disoveries about how our bodies works. Plus it looks like our bodies works in more dimensions that we can percive naturally. In brain it looks like it works in like 11 dimensions.
 
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Tetra is going to die laughing when she sees whatever Victor manages to make while he arrogantly claims himself a master of life XD
 
Poinr b: even now we still dont know all about the body and even miniscule details can ruin the process, and even now there are now disoveries about how our bodies works. Plus it looks like our bodies works in more dimensions that we can percive naturally. In brain it looks like it works in like 11 dimensions.
I'm going to need to ask for a citation for this one if only to laugh at whatever pseudo-scientific facebooker it came from.
 
Pulling straight from the wiki for this one:
it is determined that resurrection through Human Transmutation is impossible because a soul that has left the mortal coil has passed on into the afterlife and can never be called back by human means. The attempt will cause a rebound due to both the inherent lack of any particular substance able to match a human soul in value and the fact that the initiated transmutation is reaching for an unattainable goal.
Ressurective Human Transmutation is, by definition and design, impossible. There is no earthly material capable of matching the inherent value of a particular soul considering how unique an individual is, and the effort to reach the afterlife to fish someone out even if you could matched he value is simply unattainable for a practice grounded in the material world like Alchemy.

It is, potentially possible, to reach the theoretical threshold of true resurrection with the Philosopher's Stone. But though it appears to defy the law of Equivalent Exchange, the law truly is absolute, and the Stone's souls are consumed relative to the user's talent and skill level with Alchemy. As such, there is literally no way to know if a Stone is powerful enough to achieve resurrection, and a failed attempt will as good as kill you.

Sacrificing one's Gate, the inherent ability to understand and preform Alchemy, is also an option when undergoing Human Transmutation, and succeeded in restoring Alphonse to the material world. But that was an extremely atypical situation, where Alphonse didn't quite die so much as get spirited beyond Truth's Gate, and the Gate being sacrificed belong to quite possibly the most powerful Alchemist in the world, who had preformed Human Transmutation a number of times before.

Truth himself said that the latter method was "the right answer", implying that the sacrifice of the ability to do Alchemy, the loss of the ability to ever do any such thing ever again, is an Equivalent Exchange for a deceased soul. But then, maybe not.

Victor is unable to know just about any of this, and hasn't even considered how inherently invaluable someone's soul is. He's going to approach this like any other material transmutation, disbelieving in the possibility that there's more to reality than can be accounted for by science and logic, and he's going to meet God. And God is going to take his fair share of flesh out of the encounter.

Purely in theory, Joe could possibly succeed at ressurective Human Transmutation without suffering a permanent toll or winding up with a meat pile. This wouldn't be due to his skill at Alchemy, but due to his myriad supporting powers permitting him mystical and divine means to meet a soul's irreplaceable value.
 
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While in older one it was plain impossible and homunculi were doomed from the start, and utterly reliant on the philosophers stones, this one would just look good from the start and die soon without them.
This sounds like a good excuse as any to have a rogue homunculus desperately trying to chase down Aperion in a desperate bid for survival,
with or without knowing where the alchemical knowledge originally came from.
 
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Mostly because Alchemy can do some rather horrific things even in exclusion of human transmutation. If someone with a genius understanding of combustion comes along, we are looking at a potential Mustang. Or they could be a Kimblee.

And then you get to Tinkers suddenly getting access to matter manipulation at a precise level and...
Oh dear.
Alchemy is a bomb, except it's spread can only be controlled by controlling the information... and it's much easier to "smuggle" a text on how to do the alchemies than it is to smuggle a gun...
If the knowledge begins spreading, Jozef will need to start a foundation to license, instruct and control knowledge of alchemy.

But I think that was already vaguely in the agenda. His understanding of culture means that once Zion is dealt with, he will not be able to ignore the improvements he could make by guiding this civilization. Imagine: he'd be able to detect and disarm extremist philosophies before they even begin to take ground. With a few gentle prods, he could masterfully prevent stagnancy and systematic corruption.
 
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It is, potentially possible, to reach the theoretical threshold of true resurrection with the Philosopher's Stone. But though it appears to defy the law of Equivalent Exchange, the law truly is absolute, and the Stone's souls are consumed relative to the user's talent and skill level with Alchemy.
Hmm... What about using the Philosopher's Stone for true resurrection of someone whose soul is in the stone? That looks like it finesses all the issues.
 
If souls are valuable, why can't Victor just capture twenty of the Nazis' usual victims and trade them in?

Cause he doesn't know that a soul is something he needs to worry about.

If he did know, he would probably go for it. However, it sounds like even with a philosopher's stone, there are still a lot of complications with resurrecting someone.
 
If he did know, he would probably go for it. However, it sounds like even with a philosopher's stone, there are still a lot of complications with resurrecting someone.
There hasn't been a single successful resurrection in FMA.

Warning: Spoiler for the FMA Brotherhood finale ahead:
The closest thing to one was Ed getting Alphonse's body back in the finale, but even that only got Alphonse back out of the waiting room right before death.

It also cost him the capability to use Alchemy ever again.

There hasn't been a single successful ressurection of a long dead person.
The most anyone has achieved was moving around souls of those still living, like alphonse to his armor.
 
Hmm... What about using the Philosopher's Stone for true resurrection of someone whose soul is in the stone? That looks like it finesses all the issues.
Only by technicality. The only way for souls to get into a Stone is for them to be directly alchemized into one from living victims. You're not really going to want to revive someone when you're the one that killed them in the first place, and the general odds of someone an Alchemist would want to revive getting processed into a Stone are astronomically low. The general idea is to use people who won't be missed.

And this is, technically, what Homunculi are: a single soul or overarching personality in complete control of an entire Philosopher's Stone. It should be noted though, that while Homunculi can imitate humanity with varying degrees of success depending on the individual, they are most assuredly not human.
If souls are valuable, why can't Victor just capture twenty of the Nazis' usual victims and trade them in?
Victor only swiped some extremely bare bones material alchemy basics from Aisha. He knows the three steps, seems to have a subconscious understanding of the underlying laws, and knows how to build arrays.

He's inferred that organics can be manipulated as well, since alchemy goes down to the atomic level, but he most assuredly knows nothing of grisly semi-spiritual branch of Alchemy that is Human Transmutation. Hell, I don't think Aisha knows that stuff, why the hell would Joe teach it to her?

So, Victor doesn't know souls are things and definitely can't make any Stones. Thank god. The last thing Earth-Bet needs are Nazis getting a way to convert "undesirables" into fuel.
 
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Souls are infinite, and unique. No matter what equation you use, there's no equal. Victor's gonna fuck up hard and he deserves it, I'm more worried about the other thinkers who are divining alchemy through observation.
 
succeeded in restoring Alphonse to the material world.

Alphonse is also a unique situation because he was literally IN the gate, which is not ever shown to be connected to the afterlife. Throughout the story Alphonse has unique interactions with his 'missing parts' because the missing parts are essentially all of him, and because the gate is an essential part of every alchemist.

So basically
Make a trade to retrieve Alphonse from the gate
!=
Make a trade to retrieve the soul of a dead person

Edit, second reply:

I bet Joe taught Aisha the important part:

Don't.

Is there a link to all of Joe's powers? I'd be interested to review what all he actually knows by fiat, because I've seen people mention a perk that explicitly gives him access to the gate knowledge, which would imply he himself doesn't know about human transmutation and philosophers stones. Given his aversion to biotinkering I don't think he'd be likely to explore it on his own, so fiat knowledge would be about the only reason for him to find out.
 
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Is there a link to all of Joe's powers? I'd be interested to review what all he actually knows by fiat, because I've seen people mention a perk that explicitly gives him access to the gate knowledge, which would imply he himself doesn't know about human transmutation and philosophers stones. Given his aversion to biotinkering I don't think he'd be likely to explore it on his own, so fiat knowledge would be about the only reason for him to find out.
I've compiled an old list a long time ago:
forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

A minor background character from Worm gets access to a compounding series of Jumpchain crafting powers and is left to figure things out with nothing but the nature of his abilities and a vague connection to his passenger for guidance.

You'll find the FMA perks under Alchemy.

The discord also has a link to an excel sheet.
 
He going to meet truth. What will he take from victor?
Honestly, I feel that Truth would either take all his stolen skills or his Abilities which seems to be where his pride is really growing from and Truth is a Monkey paws entity Personally I'm really excited as to what Victor will see Truth as will he be a person or a Power entity like what victoria saw
 
I have a thing
Tv Tropes Fridge Brilliance said:
"What Ed offers isn't just his ability to do alchemy, but his Gate, his connection with Truth/God/All/One. He isn't just sacrificing his ability to do alchemy, but severing his link with the Truth. He literally agrees to cut himself off from the rest of the universe, and even "God" himself, to bring his brother back. He has given up a fundamental part of his humanity, something of infinite value, in exchange for something else of infinite value, the life and soul of his brother."
 
Just this past week, there was an update to the Neathbow of Fallen London. There's now an example that can "safely" be interacted with available in a museum, and the following link has examples of what it's like to interact with each of the colors:

Gaze into the Neathoscope

You can also have a personal version built for your own house, provided you heed the warning "not to gaze into it for longer than 73 seconds" (and provide 7 boxes of the captured colors). Seen here:

Commission the manufacture of a kaleidoscopic device of your own

If there's anyone who can add just a touch of color to a well made outfit, Garment and Joe can probably manage it with Viric!
 
So Soul for a Soul DOES work in FMA?
It does not. It is an equivalent exchange. That means you have to use a just as precious soul to you, yours, as the soul of the other guy is to them so no rando would do it, or a loved one for that matter. That's why resurrection always fails, it's inherently too selfish, Ed's recovery of Alphonse's body is the right selflessness needed for success.
 
It does not. It is an equivalent exchange. That means you have to use a just as precious soul to you, yours, as the soul of the other guy is to them so no rando would do it, or a loved one for that matter. That's why resurrection always fails, it's inherently too selfish, Ed's recovery of Alphonse's body is the right selflessness needed for success.
Also Alphone's Body is not actually past the Gate. Rather in it.
 
So Soul for a Soul DOES work in FMA?

Jesus Christ this is one of the most confusing systems out there. This debate so far is "It doesnt work but it does but it doesnt but it theoretically does but practically doesnt but actually does"
Edward 'revives' his brother by moving him from inside the Gate to outside the Gate, with the price being the ability to access the Gate. It isn't true revival.

True revival is problematic thanks to the inability for the living to access the afterlife to get at the soul they want. Alchemists can turn a pile of paper and ink into a book, but the best they can do is a copy of a book they already memorized. They can't summon a book they haven't read from another dimension, no matter what they tried to exchange for it.
 
So Soul for a Soul DOES work in FMA?

Jesus Christ this is one of the most confusing systems out there. This debate so far is "It doesnt work but it does but it doesnt but it theoretically does but practically doesnt but actually does"

Fridge Brilliance on TVTropes is a page for users to posit thoughts and theories, not canon.

In the show/manga all examples add up to
1. Souls/living essence can be manipulated with alchemy
2. Souls leave our realm shortly after dying
3. Nothing can bring a soul back after it's gone
4. Weird edge cases where there's a lot of debate about circumstances that prevent the soul from really leaving in the first place, giving the author some wiggle room.
 
Ever wonder if Apeiron will overcome the inherent limitations of human resurrection through Alchemy? I know he has better ways to do it, but if forced to use Alchemy, can Joe trade a crafted soul, a literal divine one, for the soul of a mundane person that has passed on. We know for a fact that the souls given to him by Hell via FedEx has been improved above baseline human, I'm just curious how a soul forged by a nascent Creator God stacks in the scales known as 'Equivalent Exchange'…

PS: Treat this as a Hypothetical Scenario.
 
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