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Heh... How long before Aisha swears at someone in fluent swedish 
Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)
- Thread starter LordRoustabout
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Isn't there also a perk that grants enough water to flood a city a day? It doesn't also grant access to a literal ocean. Its safe to assume that there's some level of dimensional or conceptual bullhonkey happening.
ExploerTM
Ruin has found you at last!
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Ha... haha... AHAHAHAHAHHAHahahhahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahaa
Foooh, good laugh.
Zion can beat the ever loving shit out of Joe even if he receives entirety of CF right this instant. I am pretty sure even Endbringers - mind you, with limitations off, Joe CAN catch them off-guard and get a quick kill - can put one hell of a fight. Just to put in perspective - Behemoth beats sun. Yeah, canonically.
He definitely can't one punch Zion yet, as far as I'm aware the only things he has that are at all relevant for fighting Zion are his Spiral and Mantra abilities.
He doesn't have anything else that can really overcome Stilling or can can reliably be used to attack Zion itself rather than it's avatar.
His precognition defence might let him surprise Zion if he bothers to use his precognition power but at the moment Joe just doesn't have the mindset or equipment to properly make use of Spiral and/or Mantra power.
He'd put up a fight, probably as good as Eidolon did, but would ultimately fail I think at the moment.
Bear in mind that Zion is several orders of magnitude more powerful than everything else in Worm, he is never outfought or overpowered in combat in the novel.
Zion is still an extreme threat to Apeiron in a fight.
He'd have an easier time neutralising the threat of Zion via works of art honestly.
You hyping Zion too much if Joe receive the everything from the forge he would more then a challenge to Zion in straight fight the issue is collateral damage and the planets that would get destroy during the clash, hell if Joe manage to unlock the full power of spiral like in the anime/Movie Joe would be able to destroy galaxies mess with multiverses and reality warp stuff the same for Mantra he would become like Asura and just casually destroy planets it just a matter of time until Joe finally manage to unlock it.
Even with limitations off the Endbringer Would be able to do less then shit to Joe, he can literally counter everything they throw at him at his current state
No, Behemoth manipulate the energy of the sun to prevent himself from getting killed and use it to his advantage, he doesn't actually "beat" the sun. To remind you Saitama can one shot Behemoth with a surface wiping punch and was turn into a skeleton by Phir Se attack
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WoG is he isn't that strong yet. Both Wildbow and Lord have talked a lot about what are necessary power levels. Wildbow confirms that Saitama can kill the Endbringers and we know that Joe has had access to that level of power since the Lung fight the issue is the complete global disruption it would cause. In both the case of Saitama punching upwards (deflecting Boros) and Joe's motorcycle firing upwards at Lung out of atmosphere it disrupted the weather patterns at a global scale. If that force was ever aimed downwards, at best you would need to redraw the maps of the planet, and at worst you wouldn't have a planet which is why Joe keeps being skittish whenever Aisha asks him if he can take care of the Endbringers yet even if he counters the Simurgh now.
On Scion specifically Lord gave a detailed response on AO3 that boiled down to: if Joe engaged all his buffs, and was able to get a surprise hit in on Scion (forget if he meant Scion's avatar or true body), he would successfully be able to kill him under optimal circumstances, and only optimal circumstances. However, if the initial strike failed, Scion noticed what he was doing, or there was any point of failure at all and it turned into a straight up slugfest between the two Scion would beat Joe in the majority of scenarios due to having more power than him (as of when the WoG was made).
Finally, on Coil himself the issue is twofold. First is a PR game. Joe could create an army of drones, scan for Coil, teleport a remote turret to his base, and kill him in under a minute. However, no one wants to be faced with the fact that the scary thinker is also capable of pulling a 1984 scenario, and he doesn't want to scare people because Joe hasn't had good luck with that. Secondly, his power is sending him a bunch of warnings because Coil has a bunch of failsafes/connections and his power is warry if Joe dealing with Cauldron/Enchida/E88 Empire reveal simultaneously.
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ExploerTM
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He need so survive up to this point and you better pray Zion will be just as unmotivated as in canon because otherwise, well... Good luck countering 10.000 different mover powers for repositioning and 10.000 different annihilator effects including Sting that is ultimate Fuck You In Particular move. And thats barely scratching surface of what Entity is capable of.
Levi probably will do jackshit, fair. Behemoth and Ziz though? Behemoth can pull off some bullshit move with his dynamokinesis and Ziz can tinker up something, and tinkers thus far were major foil for Joe.
He can use solar power output for his advantage, he beat the sun. Saitama is basically starcracker on steroids with no upper scaling and while in-universe he just super strong a lot of people IRL consider him something akin to Walking Concept Of One Hit KO (despite like monsters with regen surviving his punches if only barely). Also, everything aside from core doesnt matter to Endbringer, like at all. Phir Se attack might look like a major blow but in truth for Behemoth its barely an inconvenience. And core is toughest part of Endbringer by far.
Narsauce
The Crucible Shitlord
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TBF, if we're talking full forge Joe, that also means fiat indestructibility from EE and armsthrift
He did say "might" plus the rest is what I more or less said previously
I think some else already sort answered that but then again I doubt Zion will go into his rampage it took until Jack slash said the words and even without Jack it would have taken 10-15 years Joe have plenty of time
Behemoth can do Jack shit to Joe with power, with current Joe he can counter it and what Ziz going to do? The wing false Angel lost her thinker power advantage and Joe learn his lesson about Tinkers after Leet and Bakuda(also thinkers because of March) Ziz may still be a threat but is not as much as threat you made her out to be
First no still not beating the sun behemoth taking advantage of the sun and second No, Wildbow specifically said surface wiping punch is enough that means it require that level of force which Joe can replicate even then Joe can also build a hax weapon. Plus Saitama isn't the only method there's also string theory drive weapons that can also do it
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Probably because her interactions with super snails set her up as more of a: "Well, if it's for
ExploerTM
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Yeah fair. Still not sure can Joe be like suffocated and whatnot though. Zion just might have shards exactly for this.
You do realize that might works in both ways, right?
Again, as I stated, you better pray Zion is unmotivated. And if he is, Joe can pull off relatively solid win.
Ziz is smartest out of... well, probably entire cast of Worm. I am convinced that even with all anti-thinker\precog stuff Joe has Ziz can find a way to navigate through it. That is, eventually find a way. And time is all Joe needs.
Also Ziz's tinkering is different because thanks to her telekinesis she can do tinkering is couple separated places while also actively fighting Joe. Joe does have chance to see it with his technopathy though so uts up in the air.
I like how Wildbow himself kinda screwed up here. Unless unreliable narrator shenanigans which is fair, its Wildbow.
String Theory was threatening to knock Moon out of Orbit with F-Driver, then ST upgraded F-Driver to G-Driver to fight Zion. According to Wildbow Endbringer can be killed by F-Driver yet I know for a fact despite not reading Ward (actually, its literally in your quote lmao) that Ziz was killed not by G-Driver she got hit with but by Sleeper. So...
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Concerns about Mantra and Spiral being pushed to their limits were already addressed in previous posts, but it boiled down to; anyone using Mantra being unable to reach the levels that Asura displayed on their own, Joe can circumvent this by improving the technology used to collect and store it, but he would still require billions of people to actively worship him to just reach a sustainable 6th level with a Mantra form, which would just be close to when Asura fought Deus for a comparison.
Then there is the issues of reaching that level of Spiral power having some serious warning labels that Joe hasn't even reached yet, the most important being Spiral being limited for those who haven't taken the end game option in the Gurren Lagann Jump. Since the CF took these powers without Joe having to go through the Jumps himself, he gets away with certain things like Truth not taking his arm when he gets it and not having died for TWEWY as you would in its Jump, but for Spiral it means if he wants to reach for Simons level of Spiral he has to beat the Anti-Spiral as well, that means drawing them to Earth Bet and dealing with all of that AND Zion at the same time.
Edit: I still chuckle over whether the Tashi Station counts Mantra and Spiral among it's conversion methods. I'm also forgetful and misnamed who Asura was fighting, Deus not Wyzn was the comparison I meant.
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Yes he will remain unmotivated because unless there someone name Jack slash it won't for a long while so Joe is safe.
Ziz got outsmarted by Dinah, tattletale, Vicky and a few others in Ward and later by contessa herself. Joe is a blind spot with Allie's that can prove just as smart or counter to Ziz given the right scenario
Joe can pull off something similar except he have clones and said clones and himself can build stuff within seconds or less thanks to multiple speed crafting perks. Joe can also be a multiple separate places again Via clones and other methods, Joe is still hard countering her
…Ziz was desperately Dodging the G-drive to prevent herself from getting killed, what the heck are you trying to insinuate? Are you going to ignore it just because it didn't kill her? It a WoG, there's also another WoG that said Gray boy can take down an Endbringer by trapping it in a time bubble yet that also didn't happen so does that means also that isn't valid?
That can change as it progress through the plot with mantra plus there's still tons of stuff within the forge that can allow Joe to more then match Zion. The spiral thing I will need to check out in the WoG list that is in tvtropes for BCF
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Before anything else Joe just doesn't have the mindset to properly use the Spiral power to be useful against Zion.
Fundamentally he lacks the 'F You!' attitude to do the impossible and he's too humble to properly harness Mantra.
Until he realises that he will lose.
Fundamentally he lacks the 'F You!' attitude to do the impossible and he's too humble to properly harness Mantra.
Until he realises that he will lose.
The moment Joe gets "The Maddest Science Yet!" perk its pretty much game over for Scion and endbringers.
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Joe is walking [DATA] generator, oh you bet Zion gotta become REALLY motivated if Joe starts throwing his weight around a bit more. Lets pray Joe can deal with Levi fast enough so he wont end up meeting Scion face to face.
Ok, thinker battle shenanigans is fair, may be Tats will be finally useful for something. Jokes aside, thats still Thinker shard battle essentially, I am not sure if Joe, Survey or Fleet with his ZERO system will be up to the challenge.
If Joe can sense her tinkertech with his technopathy than yes, Joe can throw clones to deal with this, however if not, well, that would be a fun and quite deadly game of wack-a-mole, and clones probably will have time of their (rather short) life with it.
...that Ziz GOT hit with G-Driver and survived it? As I see it, main damage was from throwing her into Sleeper, not from blast itself. Again, havent read Ward, but every source says that "Simurgh got hit with G-Driver which knocked her into Sleeper's storm and he somehow dealt with her permanently".
Thats the Clarke tech one, right? Certainly will give him edge, not sure about instant win though chief.
He probably would be able to directly target and hack shards like they are 90's computers, hijacking shard network from under Scion.
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To be fair, the perks context is that it holds the sum total of the Goddess of Knowledge's information involving technology, tied into how SSS is just what her avatar could make without giving herself away as a Goddess. Tenchi Muyo is a show I only started watching myself so I may have that wrong.
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Sometimes I not sure which canon or fanon with data reaction thing with way you present it, also "motivate" Zion is just as likely to see Joe as a strong Parahuman
I also mentioned Vicky, also Joe and the rest have more then enough thinker powers that more then ready for it because you seem to forget Joe can counter Ziz vision and Ziz would lose her advantage
…she dodge it, got damage by it and made it avoid hitting her core because again she would have died if it hit her core, also weren't we talking about things that can kill Endbringers? I was presenting examples, Where are you going with this?
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BarbaCoPut
Voluta indomita
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Maddest Science Tech is one of the "Girl Genius" perks (seriously recommend the source material, start from the beggining). Joe already has the basic perk, that turns him into a "Spark", a genius engineer/scientist that can bend reality with his inventions (in the og setting), MST, would turn him into a SPARK!, on pair with the heavyweights of the setting, absolute geniuses that are one step below ascended beings in the way they can alter reality by tinkering (without associated shards)...
Y Draig Gosch
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What mantic energy? what verse is it from?
I think Cody would be pretty surprised to hear Accord described as "not a slaver", what with the whole being sold to the Yangban thing.
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Here's the omake.
It's worth noting that even if Joe had his invulnerability perks, they won't actually kill the momentum of whatever hits him. And given the sheer implied mass involved in a Sting attack, it means that if Lily throws a charged pencil at him, if uninterrupted he could fly into the next state even if he doesn't actually get hurt in the process.
Besides, the biggest problem really is that if Joe needs that level of invulnerability to fight an enemy, the potential of collateral damage skyrockets even if Joe himself could get away with nary a scratch.
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Nope, that's "Strong Spark". Joe also does not have any spark perks yet (He is yet to go insane...well, more insane), only a normal degree in normal science. Yes, it doesn't break reality, but that's better than nothing.
TMSY is from the same jump as Simple Scientific Solutions - "Tenchi Muyo!". Costs 800 points. Unlocks full, comedicly powerful, techno base of one mad goddess. Washu-tech.(*krakathoom*).
It from the game called Bastion.
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