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Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

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arromdee said:
That can be explained by Jack's power.
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So Jack's power is to make the world into a Slasher Film?!?! No wonder nobody has been able to kill him for good!

But more seriously, Jack's power is only able to manipulate parahumans because he can get "glimpses" into their minds. Everything else is done by his own communication skills since his shard traded the ability to mentally manipulate others for the ability to extend a blade's edge.
 
snrbryjm said:
authoritarian spying
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Except there is no such thing if it's done by a disinterested AI.

As for talking about moral code, that is so very important... Given his current capabilities, right now his moral code is 'If I don't see it, don't know about it, then it's okay, let them rape/rob/kill each other. Just please, don't let me know'. Which was entirely in character earlier, but now that he isn't doormat - it shouldn't be.
 
tronax said:
Except there is no such thing if it's done by a disinterested AI.

As for talking about moral code, that is so very important... Given his current capabilities, right now his moral code is 'If I don't see it, don't know about it, then it's okay, let them rape/rob/kill each other. Just please, don't let me know'. Which was entirely in character earlier, but now that he isn't doormat - it shouldn't be.
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Now it's a case of priorities which is bakudas bombs and kicking out the teeth.
 
tronax said:
Priorities you say. The only thing MC needs to trivially beat both is to know their locations and find the guts to strike. Given that his personality upgrade that he's proud of should solve the latter, what remains?..
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There's being capable and being stupid.

The MC, Joe, knows that Apeiron is rated highly as a potential threat with a lot of focus being put on him and his team. There is not much that is a threat to any of them but that does not mean that they are invincible.

Joe is looking to play the long game here by gathering information in a way that cannot be traced back to him. Combine that with better preparing his team and himself then they will have a higher chance for success.

After all, why do something that will make nearly everyone your enemy with a lower chance of accomplishing all of your objectives then waiting, preparing, and being smart about it.

Besides, do you really think Joe fully trusts Tattletale? Survey alone will be going over all that delicious data that she's getting from her alone. Including where Coil's base is and so much more.

He also needs to take out Bakuda's control of the bomb's she has planted in people. After that, which would include the signal to where she is, then he can kick her teeth in.
 
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dragon_cloud16 said:
So Jack's power is to make the world into a Slasher Film?!?! No wonder nobody has been able to kill him for good!

But more seriously, Jack's power is only able to manipulate parahumans because he can get "glimpses" into their minds. Everything else is done by his own communication skills since his shard traded the ability to mentally manipulate others for the ability to extend a blade's edge.
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Jack's power explicitly manipulates parahumans per WOG though? Its why Imp suddenly got a bad feeling when she thought about stabbing Jack, which made her go for bonesaw instead. Per Wildbow if she had decided to go through with it anyways, Jack would have intuition about something happening ahead of time from his shard, and broadcast would kick Crawler's and Shatterbird's shards to attack to force Imp away.

Jack, per WOG, can beat basically any cape one on one because their own power will fight against them.
 
Dylan101 said:
Jack's power explicitly manipulates parahumans per WOG though? Its why Imp suddenly got a bad feeling when she thought about stabbing Jack, which made her go for bonesaw instead. Per Wildbow if she had decided to go through with it anyways, Jack would have intuition about something happening ahead of time from his shard, and broadcast would kick Crawler's and Shatterbird's shards to attack to force Imp away.

Jack, per WOG, can beat basically any cape one on one because their own power will fight against them.
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Been a while since I read Worm I will admit. Been more interested in fanfics and other stories to be honest. So I will have to go through that with the copy on my Kindle that came before any changes by Wildbow.

Don't get me wrong. Wildbow did a good job of writing but afterwards I feel like to many retcons could have happened to change things to fight a new narrative that could of altered the base story of Taylor's journey.

I will agree that Jack is incredibly powerful against anyone with a Shard connection. Unless something can interrupt or block that connection to him. And according to WIldbow, I belive it's been a while since I saw that comment, Contessa constantly runs a PTV to keep "people" like him alive to help build their "army."

Honestly, I can see at times how people prefer fanon considering how far he was willing to go to protect things for his plot.
 
JamesRick29 said:
That's fanon, Cauldron only wants Shatterbird and The Siberian they could care less for Jack, also Jack's broadcast shard can counter PTV and since Jack have two of the strongest and toughest cape like Siberian and crawler it would be difficult for cauldron to deal with them.
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ARRRGH! So many conflicting things with WORM! AND IT'S BEEN SO LONG THAT BOTH CANON AND FANON MIX TOGETHER NOWADAYS!!!

Had to get that off my chest. But I wasn't just mentioning Jack Slash when it came to that. I was talking about the idea that she does that for the idea that there is one to keep the capes alive.

After all, Stormtiger could easily be killed by a guy with a gun. So could the Skidmark, Clockblocker, and many other capes. But you did not really hear anything about that at all. Only failed attacks against somone like Nilbog.
 
dragon_cloud16 said:
After all, Stormtiger could easily be killed by a guy with a gun. So could the Skidmark, Clockblocker, and many other capes.
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Stormtiger can deflect bullets with his wind power, Skidmark can make deflectors which are forcefields that can also deflect bullets the only valid one is clockblocker but he then again he have armor. By the way remember the WoG how contessa dealt with gun problem to prevent capes from dying against them?
 
tronax said:
At this point of plot MC has long since lost the last plausible justifications for not simply making a global surveillance scanner, to easily and efficiently solve any local problems that are bothering him. On one hand the idea is entirely too obvious with his current intelligence, on other - ethics simply don't apply when you have free access to AI technology. AI that can be ordered to only report the offenders that are fair game by his moral code and forget all else.

This would obviously be a major hit to most active plotlines, but... it's a huge gaping hole in logic that needs to be resolved somehow.
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"Global surveillance scanner" is kinda of an umbrella term. What do you mean by that? Give a concrete example of technology Joe can deploy at a drop of a hat without research, and how it, at least suppose to, work. Don't just throw umbrellas around, as if it means something.

Also, setting up any kind of global system to deal with a local problem is as good of a decision as using Exterminatus to kill a pigeon.
 
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Should also remember sss specifically privacy curtain but also the router up till very recently requires the base to stay within a household definition or it will be compromised and fail. Aggressively scanning the world to monitor it for threats and use to teleport people to jail is definitely beyond it.
 
Slentoru said:
"Global surveillance scanner" is kinda of an umbrella term. What do you mean by that? Give a concrete example of technology Joe can deploy at a drop of a hat without research, and how it, at least suppose to, work. Don't just throw umbrellas around, as if it means something.

Also, setting up any kind of global system to deal with a local problem is as good of a decision as using Exterminatus to kill a pigeon.
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Baseline Star Trek, before any of Joe's other perks and upgrades, can pretty much do it by itself. Or at least close enough. Add in the other tech bases to fill in any gaps, all the upgrade and masterwork perks, the better materials, magitech integration, the more conceptual/divine abilities, his current and future existing infrastructure (Like his soon to be spiritron computer (which pretty much exists for this purpose in it's source material...) for unholy amounts of processing power), etc. and something that can live scan a planet would be child's play. Alongside other tech and abilities that can hide it away and make it effectively undetectable; How ridiculously hard it would be even for Zion to detect something Joe used his everything to explicitly hide away.

Though, Joe doesn't have our meta knowledge, and can't be certain he really is that ridiculous. Especially with his passenger telling him things like killing an endbringer would cause something bad, or that Taylor is important for dealing with a problem worse than the endbrinngers, giving him a pretty good idea that there's some unknown out there of unfathomable power. He doesn't know it's Zion, let a lone what Zion can do, but he knows enough to not take unwarranted risks that could trigger a threat he might be unprepared for. Risks like a powerful scanner ferreting out the secrets of the world that could only be detected by something on par or beyond Joe himself, and thus possibly drawing that things attention. Hence the baby steps, like local stealth sensor drones, to grow more confident in his ability to go undetected before going to things like overpowered subspace satellites or something.
 
Kenshin135 said:
Baseline Star Trek, before any of Joe's other perks and upgrades, can pretty much do it by itself. Or at least close enough. Add in the other tech bases to fill in any gaps, all the upgrade and masterwork perks, the better materials, magitech integration, the more conceptual/divine abilities, his current and future existing infrastructure (Like his soon to be spiritron computer (which pretty much exists for this purpose in it's source material...) for unholy amounts of processing power), etc. and something that can live scan a planet would be child's play. Alongside other tech and abilities that can hide it away and make it effectively undetectable; How ridiculously hard it would be even for Zion to detect something Joe used his everything to explicitly hide away.

Though, Joe doesn't have our meta knowledge, and can't be certain he really is that ridiculous. Especially with his passenger telling him things like killing an endbringer would cause something bad, or that Taylor is important for dealing with a problem worse than the endbrinngers, giving him a pretty good idea that there's some unknown out there of unfathomable power. He doesn't know it's Zion, let a lone what Zion can do, but he knows enough to not take unwarranted risks that could trigger a threat he might be unprepared for. Risks like a powerful scanner ferreting out the secrets of the world that could only be detected by something on par or beyond Joe himself, and thus possibly drawing that things attention. Hence the baby steps, like local stealth sensor drones, to grow more confident in his ability to go undetected before going to things like overpowered subspace satellites or something.
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The scanners in star trek are attached to spaceships and other objects in space, as a result you must get in space first in order to do things.
 
Cheetored20 said:
The scanners in star trek are attached to spaceships and other objects in space, as a result you must get in space first in order to do things.
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Ignoring that getting to space would be easy for Joe if not for the aforementioned risks of drawing unwanted attention (unless his almost but not really a shard has the same limits normal shards do for some reason? But even then, his tech base shouldn't), I'd find it difficult to believe Joe couldn't adapt it to planet side if he really wanted to. Or even put it in a pocket dimension or something. Or that Star Trek doesn't have planet side versions themselves somewhere in their tech tree. Plenty of options.
 
Cheetored20 said:
The scanners in star trek are attached to spaceships and other objects in space, as a result you must get in space first in order to do things.
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Those spaceships are entirely capable of flying around in atmosphere and landing, and their sensors work just fine there, as well as having ground bases with sensors.

Hell, Starships are submersible if they want to be, although it makes the engineering team mad.

Joe could totally build a Miranda under the Bay if the sensors were for some reason fiat-backed to only work when on a starship.
 
From Joe's perspective: Making a satellite full of technology is the closest thing to a gift, Simurgh has ever got.

From Meta perspective: I feel like we all kinda forgot about the Iron Fleet here. You know, with proposing and seriously considering creating a godlike global surveillance system as solution to any kind of problem, in a world where Mama Mathres exist. I guess giving power to a horrible people is kind of a theme in a Worm, so it could be said that we are trying to be on theme.

Okay, but if serious, Mama Mathes is not a problem by herself, even in canon her grasp on technology was worked around. The problem is a precedent she sets. A cape can subvert the technology by just existing. And setting technology to a global level will just lead to it interacting to EVERY CAPE ON A PLANET. The chance of some Luigi Fucking Everything Over By Doing Absolutely Nothing is too big to call the decision to go global over Coil or Bakuda logical, let alone easy or efficient. Also, anything a cape can do - Zion can too.
 
ComradeGrim69 said:
chill bro, why are you yelling?😭😭
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Combination of frustration about how Wildbow did good work on writing Worm but left issues that either conflicted with what was shown and what he desired. Plus the time of night when I posted after a day of work.

Not to mention I was just messing around for comedic fun.:) I answer to Mel Brooks!
JamesRick29 said:
Stormtiger can deflect bullets with his wind power, Skidmark can make deflectors which are forcefields that can also deflect bullets the only valid one is clockblocker but he then again he have armor. By the way remember the WoG how contessa dealt with gun problem to prevent capes from dying against them?
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I have always seen Stormtiger as a short range aerokenisis type.

But yeah, bad examples although Skidmark does need setup to do the whole bullet deflection. Anybody knows how many fields he would have to place to deflect a .9 mm? Because, if I'm remember right, his fields barely move anything at first and need to be piled on to get anything done right?

I also just recently relooked over that particular WOG about Contessa. (Why is she so useful to help plot but so boring as a character? I never understood how people can be comfortable writing her?) But it is also a mix of the culture for Earth Bet along with the PRT cracking down hard along with other capes as part of the Unwritten Rules.

Which means Joe has broken them already!!! Another reason for people to be worried about Apeiron! oh no.
 
Slentoru said:
world where Mama Mathres exist.
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That could actually be a problem, if MC did not have magic in his arsenal. The thing that shards don't know, don't understand, don't detect, are unable to parse and modify. It should be enough to simply enchant a piece of tech for it to be completely out of their grasp. Any enchantment should do, not even specialized. Yet, MC has specialized magic too, if he wanted to be sure. After that? Best shards could do would be to break it. Even that they wouldn't do, as it it would require understanding that they stand something to gain by breaking a piece of something.

Earlier MC was incredibly passive, unable to even dream of experimenting and gaining information that wasn't spoon fed to him. That had changed. Should had. Now he should be able to finally do things ouside of coasting on freebies, show display at least the most basic level of initiative. If he applied himself, discovering how magic interacts with shards wouldn't take him above half an hour.
 
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XenonPrime said:
One of the problems I find most compelling in the story is how can Joe manage the reactions of people and society to the power he displays?
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Does he manage reactions at all? He seems to actually avoid doing this for the most part. It's why no one knows what to think of him. It's kind why his calling Weld after the UH was such a big deal.

He shows up, does something, then basically leaves. Often without any communication or explanation to the outside world. It's why everyone has crazy theories about him.
 
tronax said:
If he applied himself, discovering how magic interacts with shards wouldn't take him above half an hour.
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He...he learned how magic interacts with shards in first 20 chapters...

...Maybe we should start from the beginning. Welcome, this is Brockton's Celestial Forge fic thread. This fic (in)famous for being the first CF fic to use Weight of The Quill mechanic. It's also one of the few Worm fic's that implemented Shards - Magic equalincy, mostly so Magitech constellation would be useful.

While our cult community welcomes new people, I strongly advise reading at least a bit of a BCF before making a comment.

Hahahahah, sorry - sorry, did not want to be a dick, just too sweet of an opportunity for a joke to pass up on it. But seriously, I understand that some moments fics can blend together and facts can get lost, but generally before commenting remembering what you're commenting on can be a good idea. (Using Protagonist name, instead of "MC" can help with memory. Even more so when the Protagonist is not named Taylor. There's not many Worm fics with that trait)
 
Kenshin135 said:
Ignoring that getting to space would be easy for Joe if not for the aforementioned risks of drawing unwanted attention (unless his almost but not really a shard has the same limits normal shards do for some reason? But even then, his tech base shouldn't), I'd find it difficult to believe Joe couldn't adapt it to planet side if he really wanted to. Or even put it in a pocket dimension or something. Or that Star Trek doesn't have planet side versions themselves somewhere in their tech tree. Plenty of options.
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This is like saying a camera works just as well in space as it does on planet so you should be able to take a picture of the entire planet while standing in your apartment. Additionally star trek scans aren't magical data acquisition beams they are shown in the show to be detectable because they actively send out em radiation to gather data. It would be highly noticeable especially since every tinker and thinker are looking for what Aperion will do next.
 
And all of that absolutely disregards the implications of Apherion going nuts with stopping all crime. He could, sure. But how would people react to it? To knowing he has set up a surveillance equipment that basically disregards people's right to privacy (as far as the PUBLIC knows). That he can just teleport people to prision willy-nilly. And how is the judicial system supposed to deal with it? What evidence would there be? That couldn't be waved away as fabricated or untrustworthy?
 
Jfan999 said:
This is like saying a camera works just as well in space as it does on planet so you should be able to take a picture of the entire planet while standing in your apartment. Additionally star trek scans aren't magical data acquisition beams they are shown in the show to be detectable because they actively send out em radiation to gather data. It would be highly noticeable especially since every tinker and thinker are looking for what Aperion will do next.
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To someone with all of Joe's perks? It is exactly that. Especially with his hybridization perks being able to fuse functionality. And yes, baseline they're very detectable, and even blockable. After all the upgrades, and other tech bases mixed in, enchantments, etc? They almost certainly wouldn't be nearly as much if at all. Probably using new methods entirely. Or switching to a more passive but still overpowered because magic system that doesn't even really have any emissions to detect. Kinda hard to say for sure, but with the CF at this level more or less anything is possible if the character wants it bad enough.

As for people's reaction to Joe proving super surveillance? I'd honestly be surprised if a good portion of the world doesn't already assume he has it. They live in a world with Thinkers and Tinkers of all sorts, lack of privacy is probably just a fact of life to them. I'd certainly live with the assumption that the major powers at least know my favorite pair of underwear. Confirming it would probably cause some panic, but after the whole embedded name thing... eh. As for the proof thing? That's why I'd skip it and just send them away to their house or something just before they commit the crime. Or the dedicated predictive crime AI working alongside Survey would at least.
 
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