Timerider
That guy who really should get out more.
- Location
- The End of the World.
More like calling "I surrender!" With and really goofy grin on his face.
Advice and Trust [NGE]
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
"Stupid fish!"
- Location
- somewhere hot
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Basically.
To quote the song, Gendo's Paradise.
Evangelion draws a lot of inspiration from Rousseau who hypothesized that all people inherently desire to be loved and to be among like-minded, which is why even SEELE desires a global unity with no suffering, starvation or hurt.
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
Oh, SEELE's planned end of the world is very thematically appropriate for the series. Basically, what the entire series shows us is that pain that is being caused by people being separate. The pain of loneliness, of being misunderstood. Every man is an island, and that is in the nature of being man - humanity is a sad "colony of individuals" as it is put in EoE. That is what causes pain, and NGE shows that amply.
So, in the end, why not remove that separateness? Every human becoming one with each other...
GoukaRyuu
Shadow Cabal Made Man
- Location
- New Jersey
Because we would no longer be us or human. Oh, wait, was that a rhetorical question?
- Location
- Denmark
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I definitely agree.
In the end of it all, Shinji chooses suffering and individuality as well as the possibility that people can reclaim their own individuality. Shinji rejects the altruistic (perhaps misguided) goals of SEELE as well as the egoistic (but loving) goals of his father and instead gives humanity freedom to choose between suffering and bliss.
A thematically appropriate ending indeed.
Just a shame that it is so bittersweet.
(When I say shame it's mostly because I always end up pretending that I'm not crying after having watched it.
)
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
It was an advocatus diaboli argument. I don't agree with it, but the point is, SEELE does.
Though, seriously, "we would no longer be human"? Eh, who cares. The "not being us" part stings more of course. Loss of self is a form of death, after all. Or at least maybe it is. If we assume that instrumentality as shown would go on forever... with no clear boundaries between people, but the people still existing as such... that would be continued existence.
Zeratoth
Lord of G
- Location
- Giant Robots
Eh. The "self" is of limited (though generally non-zero) value as long as existence is pleasurable. Which instrumentality was still probably pretty bad at. SEELE aren't in the right, but that doesn't make them all wrong either.
Or something. Im probably wording that badly. Posting on break during a busy day. Im not sure where you folks are or what its like, but we just had our first big snow. The Adventure of the Winter Morning Commute begins!
Or something. Im probably wording that badly. Posting on break during a busy day. Im not sure where you folks are or what its like, but we just had our first big snow. The Adventure of the Winter Morning Commute begins!
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- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
But that's the point. Though I'm probably also wording that badly myself as I haven't defined "self". But how can there be an "existence" without self? Some sort of human-mind conglomerate would exist, yes, but not I. That's the point/problem.
Granted it would vary based on when the meeting happened but what would Cannon!Asuka say about A&T!Asuka? Would Cannon!Asuka listen when A&T!Asuka explains that Shinji is attracted to her but is terrified by how freakin' awesome she is? That explanation would appeal to any Asuka's ego and jive with her world view, so long as it is pre-15th angel.
It's not so much blood loss as redirection. It doesn't matter if the blood is in the body or not, if it get to the brain, same result.
Oh, right the nosebleed thing.
Nevermind.
Lord Sovereign
The Emperor of shitty fanfic
- Location
- England
Instrumentality sounds like a total hellscape. No sense of self whatsoever. You wouldn't be sad or in pain because you wouldn't be anything. You would not feel anything, you would not think anything, you as a person would be dead. Everything that makes humanity the stupid and wonderful thing that it is, would be gone. Only this hideous, bloated thing would be left, ruled forever by those who deem themselves the "soul" of humanity.
A pointless, pathetic, meaningless existence stretching on forever, with no escape. Everything humanity was or could have been, would be erased. There would be no future for mankind.
I'd rather blow my own brains out than become...that.
A pointless, pathetic, meaningless existence stretching on forever, with no escape. Everything humanity was or could have been, would be erased. There would be no future for mankind.
I'd rather blow my own brains out than become...that.
Turing Decidable
𝕘𝕒𝕣𝕗
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The failed kiss likely killed any notion in canon!Asuka's mind that Shinji could possibly be interested in her, so unless A&T!Shinji is also there to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he does love her, it might be outright impossible to convince her.
But before the kiss? It's clear that the Walls of Jericho thing did bruise her confidence, but it'd be relatively easy to get canon!Asuka on board with the idea, I think.
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
Eh, end result between that and what you describe Instrumentality as is exactly the same.
However, an instrumentality where there are no borders between people and they blur into each other, but where people still exist as people, just... overlapping... well, that would be continued existence. Then you would feel and think and remember; it would just bleed over to other people. And in EoE that does appear to be the case. People talk with each other in Instrumentality; that only works if they still exist as, well, people. And how can people step out of the Sea of Tang if they have no will to do so?
So I'd say Instrumentality is that: People still exist, people still think and feel, it just all blurs into each other a bit.
That, and because Asuka is Asuka and hence all about competition, seeing Rei with Shinji at the train station.
Appletank
Acquire Cheese
I think the "bad end instrumentality" the way a Hivemind is generally portrayed pretty much leaves a Borg Queen in charge, and nobody likes her, or being anywhere near her without a few missiles pointed at her. Which appears to be what SEELE want to happen, but I can't imagine why being a planet sized blob would be something to strive for. Plus, can it even move? Being high on happiness constantly isn't going to get anything done.
However, in a rare case of individuality dropping a bit being portrayed as a good thing (ignoring the Dark Templar), the Protoss of Starcraft kinda has it. No, not everyone is a clone, but being able to empathize with others on a telepathic level really helped stop the whole world-wide bloodbath thing they had going. If one could figure out how to hijack the Instrumentality process and redefine the parameters, it could work.
However, in a rare case of individuality dropping a bit being portrayed as a good thing (ignoring the Dark Templar), the Protoss of Starcraft kinda has it. No, not everyone is a clone, but being able to empathize with others on a telepathic level really helped stop the whole world-wide bloodbath thing they had going. If one could figure out how to hijack the Instrumentality process and redefine the parameters, it could work.
Timerider
That guy who really should get out more.
- Location
- The End of the World.
If I remember correctly the Borg were actually somewhat decent until they assimilated something that made them go all freaky. Maybe Instrumentality could be a similar state of being, minus the whole, "Resistance is futile" thing.
- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
Assuming it all happens 'now' (immediately post-Arael) Canon!Asuka would (darkly hilariously) suffer from seeing A&T!Asuka: Seeing how she could have been, happy, confident, and loved, might just make her feel like more of a worthless fuckup for missing it. "I had my perfect match right there, living with me, and still couldn't get it right. I'm useless." A&T!Asuka would have to carefully explain how it happened, and assure 'herself' that Shinji's still interested but just as bad about saying so as she is. And yes, I think an approach of 'Shinji is really attracted to you, but totally intimidated by how hot and full-throttle you are' would be a good one. Post-Arael, though, Canon!Asuka would need a good bit of just putting herself back together after Arael ripped her mind apart and rubbed her face in all her fears and inadequacies.
I think the rail station scene shows that Asuka was still interested even that far along, since it's seeing Shinji talking with Rei and smiling that finally convinces Asuka she's 'lost' that fight, and she gives up all hope.
Preview? Sure!
+++
The Fifth Child was waiting by the entrance of the Geofront hospital as they pulled up, once again dressed in his student uniform. He gave them his familiar smile as Misato rolled to a stop. "Hello, Major Katsuragi, Ayanami. It is good to see you. I understand you are to take me to my new lodgings?"
"We sure are. Hop in, Kaworu-kun!" Misato affirmed.
He opened the passenger door, and made to get in the front seat.
"It is alright if you sit in back, Nagisa. I will not mind," Rei said quietly.
He froze, and looked at her again. She gave him a tiny nod. Without breaking eye contact, he lowered the seatback and got in the backseat with her. "To what do I owe the honor?"
"Your defense of me during the battle. And because we are friends. Your presence no longer irritates me."
Misato eyed them with mild amusement as she put the car back into gear. "Friends? And asking him to sit next to you? I thought you didn't want anyone near you. Rei, have you got a boyfriend?" she teased.
"No."
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Appletank
Acquire Cheese
Really? First time I've ever heard of it. Wiki's are very sparse on the whole origin thing of Borg.
Oh boy, here we go. Commence the shipping wars... again.
Turing Decidable
𝕘𝕒𝕣𝕗
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] Huggle teh Asuka
[x] Tease teh Rei
[x] Run the hell away so we don't get crushed into paste by teh Rei's AT-Field
Ranma-sensei
Sorcerer
- Location
- Citrix Receiver
- Pronouns
- Weatherdependent
Because there are like twenty origin stories.
Back on topic; this snippet feels like the teasing before the storm, because hell if Misato doesn't lose her shit after the discussion that is to come....
Schpoonman
They call me the Bord of Lays
- Location
- United States
I had some ideas what reliving her past life as Lilith would do to Rei's headspace, and it's starting to look like my suspicions are being confirmed.
Now I need the whole chapter.
This is going full Earn Your Happy Ending, isn't it?
Now I need the whole chapter.
Shit, you're right.
This is going full Earn Your Happy Ending, isn't it?
- Location
- Canada
Matt R
Giant Robot Pilot
- Location
- North Dakota
Hmm... didn't that scene end without the expected explosion?
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
Well. She kissed a boy and both enjoyed it. Does that count?
