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Advice and Trust [NGE]

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The Englanderish said:
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Yeah, you already used that image. And now or back then...

Susano said:
:(

...you don't fight fair, Tommy!
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brer rabbit said:
I agree, that why I am hoping Strypgia is going to keep the beginning of the invasion of NERV most the same as canon, mostly because I don't think a simply embrace between Shinji and Asuka is going to change that much and this is NGE there must TRAGEDY and broken people that's why we love it.:evil:
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No, this is WAFF territory. Of course, nonetheless, Stryp has promised us epic shit to go down at the end.
 
The Englanderish said:
It was mostly my reaction to somebody express joy over a mass slaughter-torture-fest...
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Well, I would have liked things to go better for the characters, especially Rei losing her individuality and becoming completely cold and unapproachable, beyond any human interaction, as a soul-gathering goddess... but as a movie it completely fit to Evangelion.
 
The Englanderish said:
It was mostly my reaction to somebody express joy over a mass slaughter-torture-fest...
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Anywhere can be paradise as long as you have the will to live. After all, you are alive, so you will always have the chance to be happy. As long as the Sun, the Moon, and the Earth exist, everything will be all right.

Even someone in the very nadir of despair can come to find the will to live and be happy. It was a long road to get there, and a lot was lost, but I will never say that End of Evangelion reveled in destruction. Yes, it wanted to shock us--to shock us from complacency--but in the end, I can only believe that that was meant to wake us from the dreams we trap ourselves in. After all, there's something out there in the world, something worth living for.
 
Muphrid said:
Anywhere can be paradise as long as you have the will to live. After all, you are alive, so you will always have the chance to be happy. As long as the Sun, the Moon, and the Earth exist, everything will be all right.
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Get lost, Yui. Yes, post-apocalyptic Earth will surely be such fun to live in!

And what's wrong with dreams, anyway? The environments they create for us may be false; but the emotions and sensations we fill in response are real, just the same as those derived from real environments. It is good that Instrumentality was broken because it would have led to death - to the loss of individuality, which IS death. But this worship of "reality" over all other concerns is silly. I know of course the Doylist reason it's there - it's a message to the audience as well, and as such it makes sense. But in-universe, I want to kick Yui's ass for such callousness.
 
Susano said:
Get lost, Yui. Yes, post-apocalyptic Earth will surely be such fun to live in!

And what's wrong with dreams, anyway? The environments they create for us may be false; but the emotions and sensations we fill in response are real, just the same as those derived from real environments. It is good that Instrumentality was broken because it would have led to death - to the loss of individuality, which IS death. But this worship of "reality" over all other concerns is silly. I know of course the Doylist reason it's there - it's a message to the audience as well, and as such it makes sense. But in-universe, I want to kick Yui's ass for such callousness.
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Eh, fantasies promote stagnation. I think that argument works in-universe or out of it.
 
Muphrid said:
Eh, fantasies promote stagnation. I think that argument works in-universe or out of it.
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So? We aren't obligated to progress. Progress, like all abstract concepts, exists for our sake, not the other way around. In fact, if we were to find a theoretical way to have perfect happiness, what would even need further progress for?
 
Susano said:
Get lost, Yui. Yes, post-apocalyptic Earth will surely be such fun to live in!

And what's wrong with dreams, anyway? The environments they create for us may be false; but the emotions and sensations we fill in response are real, just the same as those derived from real environments. It is good that Instrumentality was broken because it would have led to death - to the loss of individuality, which IS death. But this worship of "reality" over all other concerns is silly. I know of course the Doylist reason it's there - it's a message to the audience as well, and as such it makes sense. But in-universe, I want to kick Yui's ass for such callousness.
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I love fanfics in where Yui is called out on her insane plan and her being not that much better than Gendo, to bad their aren't more of them.
 
Susano said:
So? We aren't obligated to progress. Progress, like all abstract concepts, exists for our sake, not the other way around. In fact, if we were to find a theoretical way to have perfect happiness, what would even need further progress for?
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True enough. Perhaps we need only keep up with the universe. There's the looming death of all stars, decay of all protons, and evaporation of all black holes to worry about. Nothing lasts forever. We need to get started on solving these problems now. We only have 10^1500 years before we all decay into iron!
 
Muphrid said:
True enough. Perhaps we need only keep up with the universe. There's the looming death of all stars, decay of all protons, and evaporation of all black holes to worry about. Nothing lasts forever. We need to get started on solving these problems now. We only have 10^1500 years before we all decay into iron!
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Rei: "Now that we have decisively defeated the Commander and SEELE... we shall declare war on entropy!"

xxx

Kyoko and Sayaka sneezed simultaneously.

Kensuke: "...well that was weird."
 
I feel like you're taking Yui's words/intention out of context a little. I've never been one to rush to her defense, but she didn't set up Instrumentality to say "Alright, enjoy your romping on post-3I Earth!" Her scenario was always about making the best out of the shittiest situation possible. She, mistakenly or correctly, assumed that 3I WOULD happen, so she put herself where she felt was best to derail it into a salvageable situation, if not stop it entirely.

Crazy? Yes. Malicious? Possibly not, I still can't think of a good reason to bring Shinji to watch her Contact Experiment that doesn't damn her at least a little. Sociopathic and nihilistic? Definitely not. She wanted to let humanity and her family pick their own destiny, not let SEELE dictate it. It was a REAL shitty road reaching that point, but it worked.

TL;DR: Monument to man stuck inside Unit-01 until it drifts into a star or something definitely means she's crazy, but she IS right: Humanity can make it out okay given the chance, and they got that chance.
 
I always thought a better monument to humanity would be a AN EMPIRE OF A MILLION WORLDS-(ahem) sorry I mean, "humanity itself."

But I don't like existentialist, artsy, psychobabble bullshit, so what do I know?
 
@Lord of Bays

Even then, Yui's words are... well, as I've said, callous. This is not the new start, the second chance to a new destiny, this is just salvaging what can be salvaged so that humanity will live, but it will be a miserable, poor life. And of course, it is a defeatist attitude. If you're thinking "Well, any scenario can lead to paradise", then you might to confident with "eh, good enough" - which basically describes Yui's plan.
 
Lord of Bays said:
I feel like you're taking Yui's words/intention out of context a little. I've never been one to rush to her defense, but she didn't set up Instrumentality to say "Alright, enjoy your romping on post-3I Earth!" Her scenario was always about making the best out of the shittiest situation possible. She, mistakenly or correctly, assumed that 3I WOULD happen, so she put herself where she felt was best to derail it into a salvageable situation, if not stop it entirely.

Crazy? Yes. Malicious? Possibly not, I still can't think of a good reason to bring Shinji to watch her Contact Experiment that doesn't damn her at least a little. Sociopathic and nihilistic? Definitely not. She wanted to let humanity and her family pick their own destiny, not let SEELE dictate it. It was a REAL shitty road reaching that point, but it worked.

TL;DR: Monument to man stuck inside Unit-01 until it drifts into a star or something definitely means she's crazy, but she IS right: Humanity can make it out okay given the chance, and they got that chance.
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I highly doubt that Yui wanted to derail Instrumentality into a salvageable situation or stop it , if she did she would have kill the MPE'S the moment the lance came into play.
 
Lord Sovereign said:
At least their end goal isn't "unending sea of orange juice..."

Yes I'd rather live in the Imperium of Man than become part of Instrumentality. Sue me...
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I'd say that is logical, but incredibly low-hanging fruit. Excuse me, but I don't find the Imperium of Man that great to live in either.

Then again, that's off topic. Suffice to say Instrumentality sucks, and that anyone who thinks it doesn't suck clearly is missing at least one screw.
 
Well, dieing sucks. And all of humanity becoming one individuality is death.

But if it weren't for that, and it was just being stuck in a lotus eater machine - I can see the positive sides to that.
 
Susano said:
Kaworu: Good day gentlemen. *gets shot, AT Field octagons become visible*. I'm afraid that won't help. I've held back the burning desire to reunite with my father, thus ending all life on Earth, for several months now. For several months, I have endured absolute soul-crushing loneliness, so as to not destroy your beautiful culture. In addition, I'm constantly worrying that I might hurt the people I care about, and the person I care about most and I are instinctively antagonistic towards each other. This has left me rather cranky.

You come in at a convenient time. Convenient for me.
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*Laughs maniacally*
 
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